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[oneils]

What if we are married for 10 years then? Ideally, should she be entitled to any of my future income? Independent of laws.

It just doesn't seem fair at all to me in that case. Again, assuming we both made no major career sacrifices. It seems like unless I marry another highly paid professional, I'll always stand to lose much more.

You know, if you are really this worried about it you should do some research rather than ask randos on the Internet for their opinion? That's not really a great way to decide how to approach life. You should make decisions based on facts.

 

[Darknight]

sounds like your fears could be easily remedied by a prenup.

Why is everyone making it seem like women are gonna be ok with this? Im going to assume, most of the times this gets brought up by guys, you will get a bad look.

Im not feeling to hot about marriage myself. I dont see alot of worth into it. Maybe for tax reasons? But I feel if you truly love someone, you dont need to spend a bunch of money and shit to show it. I'd rather use that money say for travel or invest in a home or kid's future. Sadly not everyone thinks like this and follows the social norms.

 

[Your Entertainer]

You know, if you are really this worried about it you should do some research rather than ask randos on the Internet for their opinion? That's not really a great way to decide how to approach life. You should make decisions based on facts.

I will - but I just wanted some discussion on the matter. It's definitely part of me learning more about it. My colleagues talking about it got me thinking. I'm not really asking for life advice or even really that worried about it haha. I have to say that my mom has played a big part in my attitude towards this though haha. She very strongly wants me to watch out for myself and has been feeding me horror stories since I was young.

 

[Archer]

I'm just scared of her reaction to when I bring up the pre-nup.

If she doesn't want it, that should tell you something. That's the cold blooded truth.

 

[legend166]

This is why divorces tend to "screw over" guys. The only way this evens out is if men start dropping careers to take care of the kids and homes and allow women to be the breadwinners. Divorce is one of the great examples of the patriarchy causing "problems" for men. Usually ends up with guys getting annoyed they can't cut and run and just leave their wives and kids to fend for themselves despite their gendered social roles screwing over future job prospects.

Everything in quotes because I'd honestly still rather have a career for the rest of my life then living off of alimony and still taking care of kids.

In what universe is the hypothetical I just described "screwing over" the guy?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Geezuz, OP..lol.

I didn't get married until 33 ... 48 now. Love my wife of 15 years, love our kids, love the life we've built together. But there isn't a day that goes by that I don't struggle with the married life. What can I say, I'm a loner Dottie. A rebel.

 

[Lyriell]

It is probably likely that they share half your assets acquired after the relationship started and not half of all assets.

I take it back, you're correct that part.

But at 2.5 years it becomes the same as marriage and covers all assets

also: Australia

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

Probably has to do with the idea that the lower income earning spouse is owed a portion of the higher income earner's future income because they enabled them to earn that income.

But you will have to do some research for alimony laws in your jurisdiction to figure out just what the standard is in your area.

So if she gets used to the good life now it's your duty to maintain it without her having any obligations towards you.

Yep, don't get married.

Hypothetical:

A man and a woman get married. The woman has a career, say as a school teacher. After five years of marriage, they decide to have a baby, and the couple makes a decision that the woman will be a stay at home mother. They go on to have five children. The woman raises them all for the next 25 years. At this time, the man decides to have an affair and leave his wife.

She's now stuck with no income and no career prospects because she's in her 50s and hasn't been in the work force for 25 years.

All this time the man has forged a successful business career, and if he so chooses, could work for the next 15 years before settling down to a nice, easy retirement.

You'd agree in this case the man should be at least partly responsible for the wife's welfare, right?

This would be a fairly common situation.

In that case it works because the wealth redistribution is a penalty for a breach of contract. However, consider that in no-fault divorces the husband still has to give up assets and pay alimony. So even if you're a good husband you can still get screwed.

This is so hilariously misguided I'm surprised you haven't been banned. The idea that the working partner is spending resources on the non-working partner as a form of a loss of earning potential is laughable. As I stated, the non-working partner is contributing an extremely valuable service (think about how much money a full time-home maker should be paid, easily more than 50k a year) and the idea that they should not be accomodated after however many years of foregoing their own economic benefit and career development speaks to a profound level of ignorance as well as lack of basic empathy.

50k based on what? Seems like a ridiculously high number to me.

 

[PhineBuyM3]

I'm a mid 20s guy, in a medical residency with about 4 years left till I finish. Everything's going great in my life, but I'm single. Talking with male, single colleagues, a lot of us have brought up the same fear of getting married after hearing horror stories of the dude getting screwed over. One dude's wife cheated on him extensively, divorced him and took half his assets and now the dude still has to support the woman and the dude she cheated on him with monthly. He doesn't get to see his kids much either. Although he was making a doctor's salary, having that chopped down, on top of paying off a massive med school debt, has got him in some financial trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg

Just watched that too. Dude going through a divorce in Canada where it sounds even worse. The dude's wife had a clear mental illness, blew through $500k a year on meaningless junk, took the kids to foreign countries so he never saw them, and they never had sex but once a year. He was ordered to pay half a million that day or go to jail for 6 mo, and now has to pay $17k a MONTH in child support only, or go to jail for like 10 days a month. His salary is not what it once was, and he was to the point where he would have had to make 40k a month to see a dime himself.

Is this a common sentiment among young males these days? Is my apprehension rational? If I were to get married, I'd probably get a prenup. It doesn't right with me as it almost seems like a giant question mark on the whole trust and lifelong bond thing... But it almost seems like I have to protect myself. Or just not marry. Although I've heard stories on those being thrown out as well. Also, anybody have any horror stories on the topic?

I have to say, it definitely has me scared. Admittedly, I don't know how the system works extremely well and need to to more reading. I also wanna see that Divorce Corp docu, which supposedly sheds light on how messed up the divorce system is here in America.

This is the most fucked up part of the story.

 

[xxracerxx]

Basing your life on horror stories from other people is not a way to live.

 

[oneils]

I will - but I just wanted some discussion on the matter. It's definitely part of me learning more about it. My colleagues talking about it got me thinking. I'm not really asking for life advice or even really that worried about it haha. I have to say that my mom has played a big part in my attitude towards this though haha. She very strongly wants me to watch out for myself and has been feeding me horror stories since I was young.

Those stories tend to skew our opinions. While lots of marriages end in divorce, not all divorces end up in crazy horror stories.

If you do get married, do not give up all decision making over to your spouse and make the marriage an actual partnership.

Dave Foley might have been able to avoid his circumstances had he not been so passive in the relationship. He essentially gave all decision making over to his wife, creating a status quo that was not sustainable. You can be married and still be somewhat autonomous.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

Basing your life on horror stories from other people is not a way to live.

Learning from other people's life experiences is a good way to live.

 

[Empty Space]

I'm 28, married, with a prenup. Everything's going fine.

You're focusing too much on the horror stories because they're stories. People don't write stories about happily married individuals. And even if they end up in divorce, prenups are pretty much iron-clad if you have one.

But marriage isn't for everyone.

This is not even remotely except in some states and if you have an incredibly expensive lawyer both right the pre-nup up and have an incredibly expensive divorce lawyer.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Just about everyone I know is either divorced or unhappily married so I refuse to go down that road.

 

[Kinyou]

It's not like you stumble into getting married. Unless...

 

[oneils]

Learning from other people's life experiences is a good way to live.

RIght, so learn from the people who have healthy marriages. Its good to know what to avoid and how not to live your life. But it doesn't teach you how to live your life.

 

[xxracerxx]

Just about everyone I know is either divorced or unhappily married so I refuse to go down that road.

And just about everyone I know is happily married or coupled up.

Learning from other people's life experiences is a good way to live.

Learning is fine, basing your life on other's decisions or follies is not.

 

[CornBurrito]

These days, the social landscape of inter-personal relations aren't congruent with how most people perceive marriage. There is a lot of peer-pressure to get married; otherwise people will think something is "wrong with you". But as more people find themselves not doing it for religious reasons, and more because it's "that time" in my life, they don't concretely understand what they are actually signing up for. A real connection to another human being doesn't gain anything by have a few nice tax-breaks and a few more arbitrary laws applied to an individual (marriage as defined by the state). Unless you've found someone who you are truly compatible with AND off-spring isn't in the near future, why not just leave it as just a "relationship"? The peanut size tax-breaks you will receive do no out-weight the negative financial repercussions if it were to fall apart. More importantly, the emotional toll will be exacerbated because by the aforementioned legal implications, moving on will be delayed significantly (sometimes years). In a society which is not in need of more youth (note: I'm not implying anything about people who want children), if that isn't the goal; have a serious, objective self-introspection to obtain an answer to the question: "Why do I want to marry X?" If the answer is littered with the opinions of other people, social norms, or believing said institution will give more meaning to your life, I'd put your foot on the breaks.

Even without tax breaks I'd still get married. Because it is a lovely symbolic gesture in my opinion.

 

[RDreamer]

Been married. Got a divorce. Turned out fine.

Don't marry someone that's fucking terrible. If you typically have bad breakups with people... well... that's probably a clue as to how your divorce will go. If you typically break up with people amicably, then that's also probably a clue about the sort of people you date and how you handle things. If you're in the former category, you should probably be afraid. If you're in the latter you'll be alright.

Going to also agree with others posting why women typically get these big settlements. They give up future earnings and careers for you. If you really are afraid of this, then find someone with the same ambitions as you.

 

[CornBurrito]

So if she gets used to the good life now it's your duty to maintain it without her having any obligations towards you.

Yep, don't get married.


In that case it works because the wealth redistribution is a penalty for a breach of contract. However, consider that in no-fault divorces the husband still has to give up assets and pay alimony. So even if you're a good husband you can still get screwed.


50k based on what? Seems like a ridiculously high number to me.

Do you know how expensive day care is? Child care in general?

 

[entremet]

The woman is still the one expected to give up their career to raise the children. If you near permanently damage your potential income, it makes sense to be fairly compensated for that in a divorce settlement.

This doesn't happen as frequently these days. Dual income is becoming the norm.

 

[Glendemonium]

A LOT of people in here who don't know what a prenuptial agreement actually is and actually covers.

On top of that, many can get ignored in court.

Really, just make sure you actually KNOW your partner before putting a ring on it. Seems many complaints I've heard come from guys with well paying careers (or just earning potential at a younger age), which can make it hard to tell if she's with you for you or for what you do for a living... believe me I've grown up with some very social statusy superficial women in my 20s, but as I've gotten older it's not so bad now because many of us have matured past that and just want a fun person (who's at least financially responsible) to settle down with.

It's suggested to wait until your late 20s early 30s before considering marriage. It should never be rushed, it's a very important commitment for both parties, even the vows you share exemplify it.

 

[CornBurrito]

Learning from other people's life experiences is a good way to live.

Basing life decisions of a horror story is not a good way to live. I guess I'm never leaving my house because some bad thing happened outside once.

 

[John Kowalski]

love isn't enough

making mistakes is important

 

[CornBurrito]

This doesn't happen as frequently these days. Dual income is becoming the norm.

Women work very often nowadays. That doesn't mean career sacrifices aren't made. Not accepting a promotion that would certainly mean longer hours for example.

 

[StopMakingSense]

50k based on what? Seems like a ridiculously high number to me.

Have you ever priced out a live-in 24/7 housemaid/child-care/cooking service?

 

[entremet]

Women work very often nowadays. That doesn't mean career sacrifices aren't made. Not accepting a promotion that would certainly mean longer hours for example.

Good point.

 

[CornBurrito]

So if she gets used to the good life now it's your duty to maintain it without her having any obligations towards you.

Yep, don't get married.

You read only what you wanted to read out of that.

A women enabling her husband to go further in his career is to you, "her getting used to the good life". Raising children and making a home are apparently not services worth paying for.

Have you ever priced out a live-in 24/7 housemaid/child-care/cooking service?

Don't forget Personal Assistant. The wife may very well be scheduling doctors appointments, taking kids to appointments, etc... Which is beyond child care because day care alone doesnt do any of that.

But women do that so it must not be worth paying for. They just want you to think it is worth anything because they "got used to the good life" when they sacrificed their time/career in order to help you get furhter.

 

[trixx]

Yo I'm thinking of getting into an arrange marriage. Let my parents set me up lmfao

My bro recently got married and my parents disapproved for numerous reasons. It seems really tough now days. I personally don't think social media helps, but what do I know.

Try to find someone that is genuine. Would be better now that your not a Doctor, and still a student.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

RIght, so learn from the people who have healthy marriages. Its good to know what to avoid and how not to live your life. But it doesn't teach you how to live your life.

You can phrase it as a negative but yes, your example teaches how to live your life. Both positive and negative experiences are good sources of information.

Learning is fine, basing your life on other's decisions or follies is not.

Yes.

Do you know how expensive day care is? Child care in general?

Why don't you tell me?

Basing life decisions of a horror story is not a good way to live. I guess I'm never leaving my house because some bad thing happened outside once.

So if somebody tells you not to touch a pot because it's hot you'd touch it anyways?

Have you ever priced out a live-in 24/7 housemaid/child-care/cooking service?

Do most wives today go full service?

You read only what you wanted to read out of that.

A women enabling her husband to go further in his career is to you, "her getting used to the good life". Raising children and making a home are apparently not services worth paying for.

That can also be phrased as "allowing a woman to take care of her children without having to worry about earning a living". Let's not pretend that only the husband benefits in this arrangement.

 

[Jenov]

What's a paper abortion? Let me guess: Man decides he wants an abortion and then the kid isn't considered legally his?

Yeeep.

 

[John Kowalski]

hail hydra

if you'd put half the effort into your posts as you did into your username we'd all benefit from it

 

[FLEABttn]

Is this a common sentiment among young males these days?

Mostly no, aside from nutty red pillers and men going their own way.

Is my apprehension rational?

Mostly no, unless you're a nutty red piller or a man going his own way.

--//--

Find someone as motivated as you are, professionally. Take your relationship slowly. Don't rush into things.

 

[xxracerxx]

Yes.

I didn't ask a question.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

I didn't ask a question.

I wasn't answering one.

 

[Keri]

Basing life decisions of a horror story is not a good way to live. I guess I'm never leaving my house because some bad thing happened outside once.

This is true. OP, I can find a million stories of women who have been brutalized by their husbands. That doesn't mean that women are always at risk of physical violence if they marry. Similarly, men aren't always at risk of financial ruin, simply because you can easily find extreme cases, where financial ruin occurred.

What if we are married for 10 years then? Ideally, should she be entitled to any of my future income? Independent of laws.

It just doesn't seem fair at all to me in that case. Again, assuming we both made no major career sacrifices. It seems like unless I marry another highly paid professional, I'll always stand to lose much more.

If you are married for 10 years and you make 8-9 times the salary of your spouse, you will probably end up paying some amount of support, for a couple of years. Spousal support payments are typically limited in time to a fraction of the length of the marriage, so your long-term earnings wouldn't be affected very much. The idea is simply to allow the lower earning spouse to get back on their feet.

 

[Khaos_Knight]

There really is no need to marry until you have kids and even then the marriage is really only for the wife and kids(health insurance and all that jazz).

As a man you will not benefit from marriage at all.

 

[Mesousa]

There really is no need to marry until you have kids and even then the marriage is really only for the wife and kids(health insurance and all that jazz).

As a man you will not benefit from marriage at all.

Do women benefit from marriage?

 

[Keri]

There really is no need to marry until you have kids and even then the marriage is really only for the wife and kids(health insurance and all that jazz).

As a man you will not benefit from marriage at all.

I'm the higher earner in my marriage (I earn 4x the yearly salary of my husband) and our marriage saves me thousands of dollars a year, in taxes. I assure you I would be receiving the same tax benefits, if I was a man.

 

[xxracerxx]

There really is no need to marry until you have kids and even then the marriage is really only for the wife and kids(health insurance and all that jazz).

As a man you will not benefit from marriage at all.

This is like reading a post from the 1950s.

 

[Jenov]

That can also be phrased as "allowing a woman to take care of her children without having to worry about earning a living". Let's not pretend that only the husband benefits in this arrangement.

Taking care of children is not "living the good life" and having fun -- it's unpaid work. Child rearing is work, and that is why outside child care is very expensive. This is why alimony was made, to help give balance to the unpaid work of a stay-at-home spouse.

This is like reading a post from the 1950s.

Seriously. That or MRA posts.

 

[sca2511]

I find that it doesn't mean anything. The girlfriend and I will probably be engaged by next year.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Get a prenup. I have one and it really takes the worry out. I don't know how I'd feel if I come home one day to find my marriage over then be told I gotta give her half because "tradition". Fuck that.

Child support? That's a given. But alimony is bullshit unless she gives up her career for the marriage.

 

[NetMapel]

You guys all investment bankers here or something ? You all have millions and are so scared of potentially losing half of your assets that you want your partner signing prenup ? Yikes... there is some serious trust issue going on here.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You guys all investment bankers here or something ? You so scared of potentially losing half of your assets that you want your partner signing prenup ? Yikes... there is some serious trust issue going on here.

I'd argue pre ups are even more vital for those making modest income.

If I make 30k and she take 15k im in an even worse place financially than someone with assets and a large income.

 

[-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-]

Do women benefit from marriage?

They can look forward to the divorce.

Taking care of children is not "living the good life" and having fun -- it's unpaid work. Child rearing is work, and that is why outside child care is very expensive. This is why alimony was made, to help give balance to the unpaid work of a stay-at-home spouse.

You might be surprised to learn many people enjoy taking care of their children.

Alimony was made because women didn't have employment opportunities. They do now.

You guys all investment bankers here or something ? You all have millions and are so scared of potentially losing half of your assets that you want your partner signing prenup ? Yikes... there is some serious trust issue going on here.

Isn't that why it's scary? An investment banker has a huge cushion on which to fall on but a regular guy is at a higher risk of having his life ruined.

 

[jon bones]

don't be in a rush to get married

make sure she's the right woman

 

[Lev]

When the odds are roughly at 50% that your marriage will end in divorce and chances are at 80% that your wife will initiate the divorce, I think if you want to get married, you should come with the expectation that divorce is inevitable. So I think instead you should do your homework and figure out how you can protect yourself from getting ruined financially from getting divorced. If your state laws suck then maybe it would be smart not to get married.

Also, I think if she refuses to get a prenup then I say forget it. It's clear from what you said that you don't want to lose half of your income and assets, so you shouldn't if you agree to getting married to any woman. People say pick the "right woman", but there's no telling that you did until you get married. Also, what's stopping her from changing her personality to shit and wanting to divorce you? Nothing. That's why you need to protect yourself regardless of how trustworthy your spouse is.

 

[xxracerxx]

When the odds are roughly at 50% that your marriage will end in divorce and chances are at 80% that your wife will initiate the divorce, I think if you want to get married, you should come with the expectation that divorce is inevitable.

Inevitable? Haha...good lord.

 

[dork]

Don't get married. It's not mandatory.

I don't want to get married either, although not because of the crazy reasons you don't. I don't want to because there's literally no reason.



I mentioned a pre-nup to my partner and she was not impressed.

You sound like me. lol I can't believe women fight against pre nups. The argument "you assume were going to get divorced" is stupid. I dont assume I'm going to have a fire but i have fire insurance