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As a dude, I'm scared to get married
- Thread starter Your Entertainer
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hydrophilic attack
Member
Is screwing your ex over after a divorce an American thing?
entremet
Member
Chris Rock.
Lev
Member
Why not. The statistics back up that logic, but honestly it's just better to have that thought in the back of your mind so that you can prepare yourself for divorce. Better to be ready for it rather than for it to hit you like a bomb shell and leave you shell shocked with no clue what to do.
reggieandTFE
Member
Love my wife. Just had our first child; she's a doll.
I worry more about giving them the lives they deserve than my own well-being.
I worry more about giving them the lives they deserve than my own well-being.
I've been married before, went through a bad divorce and custody fight, then got remarried. The horror stories aren't that far from the reality, but marriage is still really really valuable. Having someone be there for you through good times and bad; having two incomes; having a better in-home support network for any children- marriage is great. You just have to find the right person. It's definitely a huge risk for the man (and in fewer cases, for the woman).
Find someone who is in a similar socioeconomic bracket, who is motivated, reasonable, and if you do get a divorce, don't settle. Dads have as much importance in a child's life as moms do.
Family law is one of the most deeply-sexist institutions in America today.
Women are discriminated against in society as a whole, absolutely, and I'd never argue otherwise. But in family law, men are heavily discriminated against, and only in the last few years have people really spoke out about that. Sadly a lot of the critics are MRAs with lots of other nasty baggage, but they are right on this issue.
There is hope on the horizon, though. Laws are changing to not favor either party based on gender, which is how it should be. Women should have no default advantage with child custody, and alimony/palimony is going by the wayside in most circumstances.
You're right on the money. But a lot of this is ignorance of the law and stereotypes of how divorce can be, rather than dads being unfit or inferior.
Find someone who is in a similar socioeconomic bracket, who is motivated, reasonable, and if you do get a divorce, don't settle. Dads have as much importance in a child's life as moms do.
Family law is one of the most deeply-sexist institutions in America today.
Women are discriminated against in society as a whole, absolutely, and I'd never argue otherwise. But in family law, men are heavily discriminated against, and only in the last few years have people really spoke out about that. Sadly a lot of the critics are MRAs with lots of other nasty baggage, but they are right on this issue.
There is hope on the horizon, though. Laws are changing to not favor either party based on gender, which is how it should be. Women should have no default advantage with child custody, and alimony/palimony is going by the wayside in most circumstances.
You're right on the money. But a lot of this is ignorance of the law and stereotypes of how divorce can be, rather than dads being unfit or inferior.
……forgetit
Member
Pre-nup man, pre-nups.
You're right, it's not inevitable, it's more up to a coin toss probability.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;183795149 said:
You might be surprised to learn that some people really enjoy their jobs too, but I'm sure they expect to still be paid for it.
And actually alimony was originally made as trade off for having children:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimony#History
"The Code of Hammurabi (1754 BC) declares that a man must provide sustenance to a woman who has borne him children, so that she can raise them:
137. If a man wish to separate from a woman who has borne him children, or from his wife who has borne him children: then he shall give that wife her dowry, and a part of the usufruct of field, garden, and property, so that she can rear her children. When she has brought up her children, a portion of all that is given to the children, equal as that of one son, shall be given to her. She may then marry the man of her heart.[2]"
It then evolved to become a punishment measure in the cases of divorce with cheating:
"Liberalization of divorce laws occurred in the 19th century, but divorce was only possible in cases of marital misconduct. As a result, the requirement to pay alimony became linked to the concept of fault in the divorce.[5] Alimony to wives was paid because it was assumed that the marriage, and the wife's right to support, would have continued but for the misbehavior of the husband. Ending alimony on divorce would have permitted a guilty husband to profit from his own misconduct. In contrast, if the wife committed the misconduct, she was considered to have forfeited any claim to ongoing support."
And now:
"In the 1970s, the United States Supreme Court ruled against gender bias in alimony awards, and the percentage of alimony recipients who are male rose to 3.6% from 2001 to 2006, up from 2.4%, in the previous five-year period, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.[14] In states like Massachusetts and Louisiana, the salaries of new spouses may be used in determining the alimony paid to the previous partners.[11][15] Most recently, in several high-profile divorces, females such as Britney Spears, Victoria Principal, and Jessica Simpson have paid multimillion dollar settlements in lieu of alimony to ex-husbands who were independently wealthy.[16][17] According to lawyers, males are becoming more aggressive in the pursuit of alimony awards as the stigma associated with asking for alimony fades.[17]"
Walter Matthau
Member
Don't rush into marriage and don't marry someone who you think would potentially divorce/break up with you. You can tell when you've been with someone for a while (more than a couple years) if that chance exists based on the arguments you've had and their reaction to them.
Can you cite what you're basing this view on? I think the laws on custody and spousal support have been gender neutral for decades and joint custody has been the norm for a while.
ChosenPredator
Banned
as a guy get a pre-nup like everyone is saying otherwise you're going to get jacked beyond belief if things get bitter.
Then it's still horrible. Then it's amazing, then horrible again, then amazing again and so on. Been married 13 years and no matter how it ends it'll have been worth it. I've been able to share my growth with someone, witness another person grow, have a beautiful, healthy and smart child and live with someone that makes me laugh. Plus we still have sex, so yay.
Lev
Member
Literally? Yes, it doesn't back it up. But at 50% chance you could see it as inevitable anyway. At least I do since I hold a pessimistic view of marriage.
For clarity sake then, at 50% then your chances for divorce are high enough that you should be concerned that divorce could happen to you.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I was once upon a time pre-med. I knew all sorts of people in undergrad, already in med school, and then into nursing.
I knew a guy who graduated med school, but the guy was already married to his high school sweetheart. There's no real evidence of anything because they take offence to anything you say.
My folks divorced, my time in healthcare ended, and well I'm onto new and better things. I know doctors make a good paycheck and some people are absolutely turned onto that. They know you'll be making six digits towards the time you're 40 or 50 even.
I mean, not to offend doctors, but c'mon.. I met a man who was once a doctor out in western Nebraska and he had his own private jet that flew him around the state. He literally gives 100's of thousands of dollars to the hospital for new equipment. These guys make serious money.
I would be worried about it because they know how much you make and you can totally throw this, "I'm not doing it for the money" reason at them, but they don't care. You're financially secure and that debt will get payed in no time. It's probably scary at first.
I've heard pre-med presidents stand up in front of pre-med groups and talk about how they were financially scared because they were in debt about 70k+ or more in their senior year. They were going to add 3x as much to go to med school.
I think you gotta be wise with what you do and who you do it with. I've had my own fun and still sorta do, but that kinda love or affection isn't worth spending all your hard earned money on.
Plus I know you're on call all the time. You have to be there come rain or sunshine. I'm sort glad I'm out, but I wasn't like you. I spent too much trying to take the undergrad courses and found out it wasn't for me. I personally wish I could turn back time.
You don't know how the relationship is gonna work once they realize how much you'll be gone. You have to find the right person, but you gotta understand... most doctors are married and they live a pretty nice lifestyle. You're still young.
You got years of being single or not a head of you. Some years can change your life for good.
I knew a guy who graduated med school, but the guy was already married to his high school sweetheart. There's no real evidence of anything because they take offence to anything you say.
My folks divorced, my time in healthcare ended, and well I'm onto new and better things. I know doctors make a good paycheck and some people are absolutely turned onto that. They know you'll be making six digits towards the time you're 40 or 50 even.
I mean, not to offend doctors, but c'mon.. I met a man who was once a doctor out in western Nebraska and he had his own private jet that flew him around the state. He literally gives 100's of thousands of dollars to the hospital for new equipment. These guys make serious money.
I would be worried about it because they know how much you make and you can totally throw this, "I'm not doing it for the money" reason at them, but they don't care. You're financially secure and that debt will get payed in no time. It's probably scary at first.
I've heard pre-med presidents stand up in front of pre-med groups and talk about how they were financially scared because they were in debt about 70k+ or more in their senior year. They were going to add 3x as much to go to med school.
I think you gotta be wise with what you do and who you do it with. I've had my own fun and still sorta do, but that kinda love or affection isn't worth spending all your hard earned money on.
Plus I know you're on call all the time. You have to be there come rain or sunshine. I'm sort glad I'm out, but I wasn't like you. I spent too much trying to take the undergrad courses and found out it wasn't for me. I personally wish I could turn back time.
You don't know how the relationship is gonna work once they realize how much you'll be gone. You have to find the right person, but you gotta understand... most doctors are married and they live a pretty nice lifestyle. You're still young.
You got years of being single or not a head of you. Some years can change your life for good.
Marry someone with money. Every old guy tells me this and old guys usually know their shit.
Edit: Expanding on that - Do you find yourselves attracted to a female that is established in a high earning job or with a prestigious degree? People say that guys find this intimidating but I call bullshit. Huge turn on.
Edit: Expanding on that - Do you find yourselves attracted to a female that is established in a high earning job or with a prestigious degree? People say that guys find this intimidating but I call bullshit. Huge turn on.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Why "as a dude"? Seems like it could happen to a woman too.
Also, the issues seem avoidable by marrying someone you actually know and love, someone with a career. Or sign a prenuptial agreement if necessary.
The op reads like you are an immature, entitled, bratty 17 year old not a grown ass man.
Also, the issues seem avoidable by marrying someone you actually know and love, someone with a career. Or sign a prenuptial agreement if necessary.
The op reads like you are an immature, entitled, bratty 17 year old not a grown ass man.
Your Entertainer
Member
I would love to date another doc. Besides being financially secure, it Tells me that they're at least somewhat intelligent, and motivated to achieve their goals. I also feel like they're some of the only ones who would understand the time commitment and someone you could talk about work stuff to.
Other than that, I've also always thought it'd be cool to marry a musician or artist.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Im ok not getting married, but i see a wedding as a fun celebration party thing if you are planning to get really committed to someone.
If kids are in the future, such a commitment seems fine to me.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Get a vasectomy. I mean, no chances of having kids might help. Remember Derek Jeter and how he'd flush the condom once he was finished having sex?
You just have to make sure you don't say, "Yes". You aren't entitled to marry the person after 4 months of dating either.
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
Then you are the immature, entitled, bratty 17 year old. Marriage is first and foremost a life-altering contract between two adults, not a fucking party.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-
Banned
Work she created for herself by deciding to have children and taking the position of housewife. At most the wife can only claim half the work should be paid since half the work is her own responsibility. But if she's paid then it makes sense to count also the non-monetary benefits she has access to provided by the husband such as housing, food, clothing, etc...
Yes, in the societal circumstances women lived then they couldn't be expected to acquire the wealth necessary to raise their children, hence it was basically part of child-support. Things have changed a lot since then.
I cannot tell if you are serious or not.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Not serious if you read a few posts up.
It's not about not trusting the woman/man necessarily. It's about not trusting the system. Change the system so that a divorce isn't such a big potential minefield for men. At worst the consequences for men are epic in that it basically ruins financial life and makes moving on virtually impossible. Change that and I'm guessing men won't be as paranoid about this. Never really understood the whole "half of everything he/she owns and then some in the form of alimony". Thank god it's not quite like that everywhere.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Marry someone equal to you if you're that worried. Also, depending on your state laws, pre-nups don't mean shit.
I avoid all of this by staying single. I've looked back on my past relationships and I cannot honestly state that I was actually happier being with someone than being alone.
You don't have to get married. There is no problem being single imo.
I avoid all of this by staying single. I've looked back on my past relationships and I cannot honestly state that I was actually happier being with someone than being alone.
You don't have to get married. There is no problem being single imo.
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
OP is asking a serious question and searched for answers on the net and showed us what he found. He now gets called immature for showing signs of worry.
I'm married myself, but I went trough two divorces before I was 15 years old thanks to my mom. I wouldn't ridicule any guy having second thoughts.
My two cents: Don't marry unless you plan having children.
I didn't see the person calling him immature until water_wendi pointed it out. That is not cool.
Having reservations is fine, but to base it off of horror stories of friends just doesn't jive with me. There is plenty one can do to protect themselves.
Your advice of not getting married unless having a kid is weird when your previous statement was about you going through 2 divorces before you were 15. Plenty of people marry and not have kids and are happy.
Also, if you do not view your marriage as a huge party I am kind of saddened by that. It is a huge celebration of two people that love each other. Party 4 luv!
Mammoth Jones
Member
Shit, you right. "Might have to kill her".
But seriously, I mean I'm doing ok for myself but I wouldn't be comfortable having to give my wife half on TOP of child support for my daughter.
It's a big reason why people ain't getting married like that no more.
*hugs prenup*
I think divorce happens so frequently because people don't date the right way. You have to be looking for a life partner, not some hot piece of ass.
And then people get married way to quick. Oh, you're married after 2 years of dating? YOU BARELY KNOW THAT PERSON. I can't even imagine what people are thinking when they get married that quick. I think these are the kind of people that complain that after they get married their husband/wife changes in personality or habits.
It's my opinion that you gotta go through some serious shit before you can decide if that person is marriage material. I'm talking life emergencies. Death, job loss, disability, that kind of shit. That's when people's real selves come out. If you are an unfortunate soul that goes through all of that in less than 2 years with your partner then sure, get married, but for most people I'd imagine that isn't the case.
My spouse and I waited 5 years to get married. By then we had seen the best and the worst of each other and knew what was up.
And even then, this last year of our lives together has been the worst yet. Stuff has happened that would have spelled divorce for most couples (horrific death in the family, sustained job loss, other extremely stressful situations). But we just keep going because we know what each other is like and we know "this too shall pass".
So if you marry the right person, it's awesome. If you marry the wrong person, I'd imagine it's hell on earth.
As to the other topics, I fully support child support but I think alimony is outdated and should go. Assets of the marriage should be split appropriately and you get what you get but garnishing wages of an adult to pay for another adult is just crazy.
And then people get married way to quick. Oh, you're married after 2 years of dating? YOU BARELY KNOW THAT PERSON. I can't even imagine what people are thinking when they get married that quick. I think these are the kind of people that complain that after they get married their husband/wife changes in personality or habits.
It's my opinion that you gotta go through some serious shit before you can decide if that person is marriage material. I'm talking life emergencies. Death, job loss, disability, that kind of shit. That's when people's real selves come out. If you are an unfortunate soul that goes through all of that in less than 2 years with your partner then sure, get married, but for most people I'd imagine that isn't the case.
My spouse and I waited 5 years to get married. By then we had seen the best and the worst of each other and knew what was up.
And even then, this last year of our lives together has been the worst yet. Stuff has happened that would have spelled divorce for most couples (horrific death in the family, sustained job loss, other extremely stressful situations). But we just keep going because we know what each other is like and we know "this too shall pass".
So if you marry the right person, it's awesome. If you marry the wrong person, I'd imagine it's hell on earth.
As to the other topics, I fully support child support but I think alimony is outdated and should go. Assets of the marriage should be split appropriately and you get what you get but garnishing wages of an adult to pay for another adult is just crazy.
Monocle
Member
I assume you're talking about looks. You can look fugly as hell and still be attractive to women if you're a good conversationalist, have a good sense of humor, have money, or have a skill. All of those things have to be developed over time (apart from the money thing, if you were born into wealth). Don't give up just because you think you're unattractive in one sense. You might just have to work harder at first to catch women's interest, if your appearance won't do that for you. Resilient relationships aren't based on looks anyway.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You make it sound like everyone has to get married. If it scares you, don't do it.
CornBurrito
Member
No, but a ceremony can make it much more meaningful. Why does like... culture exist man?
You'd be shocked at how many behaviors have no real value except the value we give to it.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
TBH, the thing that terrifies me the most about getting married is having children. I would hate to be a father, and living in Japan, there are very few women who don't want to have kids.
Honestly, being married WITHOUT kids itself sounds horribly boring, but with children, it sounds like hell.
Honestly, being married WITHOUT kids itself sounds horribly boring, but with children, it sounds like hell.
psynergylover
Member
pretty much this
entremet
Member
Great advice, Monocle.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Um... That's news to me.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The declining birth rate is not due to people getting married and then not having kids. It's due to people not getting into relationships. Also, much of the statistics get thrown out the window when you're a foreigner.
So you are saying that women who want relationships want kids, correct?
travisbickle
Member
Whatever compensation Shaker Aamer receives for being detained in Guantanamo for 15 years should be viewed as the base marker for compensation to giving up your life to raise kids.
Monocle
Member
Then you'd have thousands of shitty people locking up their kids in the basement and collecting checks.
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