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"As addictive as gardening': How dangerous is video gaming?"

It's about as dangerous as any harmless thing that provides pleasure

Use is fine, overuse is still harmless, abuse can be damaging

but like any kind of abuse, it's the underlying cause that's the real issue. Not the substance.
 
jroc74 said:
But wait a min, video games addiction isnt a real addiction......gambling addiction must not be a real addiction too.

Again, too much of anything makes you an addict.

I havent had a drink in I dont even know how long. I have gotten so drunk I forgot parts of a night. I had family member who were alcoholics.

If you would have seen me drinking during a rough period in my life you would have thought I was an alcoholic.

Again...too much of anything makes you an addict.
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That is not how addiction works... my perception that you are using too much of something does not make you an addict.
 
Leondexter said:
Well said. I was about to post pretty much the same thing. "Addiction" to video games is not a medical reality. Drug addiction has a physiological detriment to mental ability, and withdrawal has real physical and mental effects.

I don't know about gardening. But video game addiction is exactly as serious as soap opera addiction. As in, not very.




Replace the word "real" with "serious", maybe. Yes, the potential consequences absolutely determine how serious a problem is. Something that could kill you is 100% more serious than something that might make you stay up later than you planned.
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Addiction to video games is very much a medical reality, and it's very much a serious problem that shouldn't be trivialized. Most drugs won't kill you and virtually no withdrawal (except from alcohol) will kill you, does that make them not real or serious? Just because something hasn't been fully codified yet in the DSM doesn't mean it isn't real, and gambling addiction has been recognized for a long time now. Behavioral addictions are a serious issue and probably an epidemic among some demographics, especially the demographic that frequents this forum.
 
Krosia said:
Sound explanation.
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Yeah, and you can see it immediately reaffirmed Golgo13 and Leondexter within a handful of posts.

Well, it's not as bad as heroin.
Well, it's not a real addiction.
Well, it's not serious like real addictions.
Well, it's their choice not an addiction.
Well, it should be manageable unlike real addictions.

Which is clearly all bullshit considering how accepted and prolific gambling addiction is and that's functionally nearly identical in psychology, exploitation, and addictive hooks.

But not mah vija games! They're different somehow because I said they are!
 
Philippo said:
I usually don't fall for this stuff with games, but recent games have all been so damn good that i always have problems putting them down. Like, never before Persona 5 i burnt 70+ hours in a less than a month.

Still, i force myself with a written daily schedule so i kind of manage to resist, somehow.
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But games like P5 you finish them and you move on. They don't have hooks to keep you coming back, neither they are actually impossible to finish like an MMO. In those kind of games it doesn't matter what you do, they never have a "definitive" ending because you'll never get the best stuff due to their random nature and the content updates.
 
The problem that I have is related to Dota 2, since the game is so "intense" sometimes, my body produces lots of dopamine and endorphins. Because of this, if I try different games I get bored so fast, because those game doesn't procude the same effect on me.

I know that If I want to enjoy games as before, I have to quit Dota and don't play anything for maybe two months... but I don't want to, Dota is cheaper than buying new games every month.
 
jroc74 said:
And we are done folks.

Too much of anything makes you an addict.
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some games are designed to be addictive though. and not addictive by being deep and interesting but by exploiting vulnerabilities in the human brain - like our fascination with things that appear to be random. this is worth talking about, and I personally think these games when combined with IAP should be restricted to 18+ only.

LordKasual said:
but like any kind of abuse, it's the underlying cause that's the real issue. Not the substance.
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a lot of the time the underlying cause is in the DNA and our brains.
 
Golgo 13 said:
As someone who's suffered from REAL addiction -- the shit you can't control and lands you in jail and gets you divorced and fired from your job and gets you homeless -- saying video games are addictive on the same level is a fucking joke. Of course, everything is relative, and if you just fucking pay attention and are self aware ("Holy shit... I haven't left the house in 3 days, maybe I should play less games"), then gaming is manageable. I believe we live in a society that teaches us that taking real responsibility for your life and your actions isn't "cool", and that everyone is a precious snowflake and suffering from something.

But in truth, get up off your ass and take care of your business. Video games are a choice, not an addiction.
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Yeah, all this OCD talk is just a bunch of slackers, right?
 
LordKasual said:
It's about as dangerous as any harmless thing that provides pleasure

Use is fine, overuse is still harmless, abuse can be damaging

but like any kind of abuse, it's the underlying cause that's the real issue. Not the substance.
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That REALLY depends on the substance though.
 
I was addicted to Final Fantasy XI a few years back. It was at a time when I had lots of time so it didn't matter so much. But I went travelling and for the first month I was like "this is great but I wish I could go home and play FF11". Nuts

Anyway video game addiction is bad, but it's particularly bad for games that encourage repetitive extended gameplay. MMOs, Mobile gacha games, and I assume games like Overwatch. Also any game where the developers say "we don't expect people to play all the content" is going to attract people that are going to want to do just that.
 
Variable reinforcement can become a problem for people. It is pretty true of just about anything that has an unpredictable reward pattern. For some people it is too much. While some games are really playing this up (gatchas in particular) a lot of gameplay patterns on more typical games may work for this as well (e.g. discovering something new, getting a cool drop, pushing a high score, etc.). Add in a bit of avoidance of real world stress and some culture-based social factors and you have a context that will be overly compelling for some individuals.

Not unique to gaming by any means, but gaming does have some characteristics that will foster it more easily than certain other enjoyable pursuits (like gardening or enjoying using passive media).
 
vsaintlo said:
Gamer dies after playing for 3 days...

Yfcp9I5.jpg

This is a sickness.
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What is the yellow stuff in those water bottles?
 
What do you call someone who watches football on TV every day, thinks about football all the time, and only wants to talk about their favorite football team? A normal, well-adjusted American. Replace "football" with "video games" though, and now we're talking about a scary, harmful addition.

Being so consumed by any hobby that you neglect other elements of a balanced life is a harmful situation, and video games can certainly lead to that. But that is a far cry from being medically equivalent to alcohol or drug addiction.
 
redcrayon said:
Where would you put gambling addiction on that scale? I think that's a closer analogy as it's also a sort of 'gaming' and uses much of the same mechanics to keep people playing. I've worked with people who could not stay out of betting shops on their free time, and lost jobs and relationships over it.
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Gambling addiction is serious, certainly. And potentially far more potentially damaging than many others, because of the financial aspect.

But it's also not good to compare that to drug addiction. Heroin or meth is damaging to anyone who takes it. Gambling is just an enjoyable recreational activity to millions. The "addiction" aspect of it is on the side of the individual, not the activity.

The same would be true for any other activity: video games, television, gardening - any problem there is not due to the activity. A person who is being affected negatively by these things may need psychiatric help. The products involved don't need to be made out as the villain.

By the way, full transparency: I work for a casino. And they take gambling addition very seriously, and try to identify and help with it. I'm not involved in the gambling part of the business, but even so.
 
ScatheZombie said:
Yeah, and you can see it immediately reaffirmed Golgo13 and Leondexter within a handful of posts.

Well, it's not as bad as heroin.
Well, it's not a real addiction.
Well, it's not serious like real addictions.
Well, it's their choice not an addiction.
Well, it should be manageable unlike real addictions.

Which is clearly all bullshit considering how accepted and prolific gambling addiction is and that's functionally nearly identical in psychology, exploitation, and addictive hooks.

But not mah vija games! They're different somehow because I said they are!
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Enough with the redneck moron talk. I've stated my case clearly. You're projecting your own infantile perception on me. If you can't see the difference between a substance that is inherently harmful, versus a product that is harmless to the vast majority of its consumers, then maybe you should be insulting your own intelligence.
 
CrazyIvan1978 said:
Again the definition is not whether you are doing x more than y times. I can be addicted to something and not be doing it at all.
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I agree.

At the same time there is a point where something becomes, became too much.

Whether its sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, video games, eating, etc.
 
I can quit Dark Souls anytime I want.

Just need one more fuckin hit.


I don't doubt they can be addictive like a lot of things. I've been guilty of using video games in the past to duck real life responsibility that has come back to bite me in the ass later but I've always attributed that more to cowardice and laziness more than anything like real addiction.
 
ThePeoplesBureau said:
tumblr_mdrcgqGWgE1qjlwa8o1_500.gif


Meanwhile, it's deemed more socially acceptable for people to sit passively and absorb hours upon hours of junk via the medium of their TV than experience the endless possibilities for story-telling and exploration that gaming can offer. That's not to say that playing games can't become addicting, but there's a difference between enjoying a hobby that can span a lifetime compared to throwing money at F2P trash, for example.
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My wife was telling me about an article she read that dismissed your argument about TV as a false equivalence. TV has built in stopping cues. Shows ends, commercials come on. It's why binging wasn't a thing until Netflix, which cranks up a new episode Lockett split.

And it really depends on who is in your social circle firvit to be considered socially acceptable. I have plenty of friends that have no issue shaming people that watch a lot of TV.

I have not played more than 15 minutes of WoW, but it is idiocy not to see it as problematic for many people. I remeber podcasts where someone would mention getting back into WoW, and it becomes this shameful discussion, like someone drinking again.

My wife and I had no problem banning our daughter from those games early on. The fact is, she got to college and then saw an entire group of her friends fail out because of the obsession.

Video games have the capability of being as addictive as gambling with the right games and the right person involved. And too many gamers actively work to enable their friends instead of supporting their decision to exit.
 
Leondexter said:
Enough with the redneck moron talk. I've stated my case clearly. You're projecting your own infantile perception on me. If you can't see the difference between a substance that is inherently harmful, versus a product that is harmless to the vast majority of its consumers, then maybe you should be insulting your own intelligence.
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But your case is a combination of being factually wrong, what-about-ism, and false equivalency.

You don't want someone mocking your argument, argue better.
 
What if you are happily addicted? I think it's all good, video game world is better than the real world anyway.
 
Leondexter said:
The same would be true for any other activity: video games, television, gardening - any problem there is not due to the activity. A person who is being affected negatively by these things may need psychiatric help. The products involved don't need to be made out as the villain.
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The pathology and mechanisms of addiction are well understood and many video games, especially F2P video games designed to encourage continued monetary spending, are made with the express purpose of exploiting these addiction mechanisms in those who are vulnerable so as to create the need for them to spend even more money.

Those games are the villains.
 
jman2050 said:
The pathology and mechanisms of addiction are well understood and many video games, especially F2P video games designed to encourage continued monetary spending, are made with the express purpose of exploiting these addiction mechanisms in those who are vulnerable so as to create the need for them to spend even more money.

Those games are the villains.
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Certainly, I'll concede that. I'm not going to defend products that specifically target the individuals I was talking about.
 
Video games aren't this person's problem, it's his addictive personality. I have one and I had to learn to recognize when things were becoming an issue. Luckily I don't drink or smoke or do any drugs, but gaming can definitely become a sinkhole for me if I'm not cognizant of it.
 
Leondexter said:
The same would be true for any other activity: video games, television, gardening - any problem there is not due to the activity. A person who is being affected negatively by these things may need psychiatric help. The products involved don't need to be made out as the villain.
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Do you think gaming mechanics actively designed and honed over a period of years to be as addictive and hard to quit as possible, offering incentives to wavering players and decreasing their gains once they are hooked, is 'fair' commercial activity? In the full knowledge (and indeed the reason for its existence) that such a model is particularly problematic for those with an addictive personality? Seems like the villain to me.

The issue IS the activity, specifically the aspect of it that stokes the desire to keep playing regardless of cost in time or money. Gardening, television and a fair chunk of the games industry don't do that, its specifically that aspect of some gambling models, and the games that ape it, that make it 'villainous' to me, not the other aspects of either your industry or computer games as a whole that are largely entertaining and fun.

Hiding the issue with those particular mechanics behind the (completely true statement) 'games/gambling is fun for most people!', which then allows you to compare it to other harmless hobbies, is sidestepping the issue with the particular 'addictive mechanics carefully researched, honed and employed for the sake of being addictive' being criticised.

Gaming is a hobby, gardening is a hobby. Gaming contains a number of addictive, monetised mechanics in some games that are designed to be as exploitative and raise as much money as possible as quickly as possible by exploiting known weaknesses in a small number of people. Gardening doesn't.

I suppose at this point we could compare to any longrunning industry using psychology- advertising and online gambling deliberately exploit people's desires and association with fun for commercial means too, and there's largely rules concerning what you can and can't do with it. I expect gaming to eventually follow suit, along with pachinko machines, as at the moment they are basically online gambling under a friendlier skin with less regulation.
 
jroc74 said:
But wait a min, video games addiction isnt a real addiction......gambling addiction must not be a real addiction too.

Again, too much of anything makes you an addict.

I havent had a drink in I dont even know how long. I have gotten so drunk I forgot parts of a night. I had family member who were alcoholics.

If you would have seen me drinking during a rough period in my life you would have thought I was an alcoholic.

Again...too much of anything makes you an addict.

Lets say I started stealing or robbing so I could buy the latest video game or console...does it become real then?

Drugs and alcohol are a choice too....until you become addicted. Because if not everybody that drunk their first glass of wine, or had their first beer, took their first shot would be alcoholics by now.

I tried weed before....one time years ago. Havent doen it since. Not a drug addict here. I know ppl were will let the lights get cut off but make sure they have their weed.

They never did anything stronger than weed. Are they addicted?

....too much of anything makes you an addict.....
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too much of something doesnt make someone considered "addicted". the amount of need and pursuit of it makes you considered addicted.

I could eat potatoes every night for dinner because they are cheap, bu that doesnt make me addicted.

addiction also varies from person to person. whats a lot for some isn't a lot for others. so quantity isn't a good gauge

go back to early gaming days in the arcades - the whole point is to keep the player playing and giving up their money.
 
You can have a psychological addiction to fucking anything.
 
ScatheZombie said:
Gamers and games media don't want to admit their hobby is functionally built upon exploitation of addictive personalities because it might imply they are addicted rather than just enjoying a hobby or that games are inherently a bad thing like the non-gaming media has been incorrectly portraying them for decades.
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Heck how much virtual ink has been spilled, in these very forums by some members, trying to explain there is nothing exploitative about Gacha games and try and treat them as just another kind of game, nothing messed up and deeply immoral going on here folks!
 
I roll my eyes at this stuff but I don't know, maybe it's legit and I'm just like conservative or have my head in the sand about it. If you feel video games are a real problem in your life and you address it for the better, more power to you. That's definitely the move to make vs whatever I would say.

At the least, video games do not appear to give you intense withdrawal symptoms where you would need like 24/7 monitoring like how some drugs affect high users. Maybe claiming self-discipline is the answer is cruel and unusual, but at the least, it seems like if you're determined to quit, you'll just "really miss the game" rather than say, "really miss the game and be out turning tricks on the corner" or "really miss the game and be vomiting all over yourself and shivering uncontrollably while hallucinating."

One thing though... John Lennon was murdered by a fan out of some bizarre twisted sense of love. We can admit that John Lennon probably wasn't dangerously addictive thing though. The response wasn't to really study what Lennon was doing with his music to turn people into murderers. I hope video games can be like Lennon in this case.
 
Gardening isn't addictive. It's boring. I usually give up before the mid-way point, just like boring video games.

So my conclusion is video games aren't addictive if you stick with the boring games.
 
The snooker player could have played Virtual Pool at least.

At least gambling bars minors from participating.

But for video games minors are introduced from a very young age, often deliberately. Same policy alcohol and smoke companies use to target youth,since they are lucrative customers.

In case of minors getting addicted to games,there should be more precautions.
Online gaming is far more addicting when compared to the old offline arcade games.
 
There have absolutely been periods in my life when I would start to feel that "itch" if I stayed away from gaming too long. The problem was at a certain point I stopped really enjoying the time I spent playing games because I was depressed with how much of my life it was eating up. It became a pretty bitter ritual after a while.

I'm really glad I got away from that and have replaced more of my leisure time with more productive activities (like exercise and college). I still love playing games, but I've known several people in my life who pretty much spent all of their time off from work playing video games, it's really sad to see. I think that type of life can be really damaging to your psyche, you gotta vary up your life for own sake. I've also found that the happier I am with the rest of my life, the more I actually enjoy the time I spend playing games.

It's all about balance.
 
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