• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Atheism and R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Status
Not open for further replies.
Didnt say you werent allowed to. Do whatever you want. Its your life. If you dont understand why its insulting to have your beliefs belittled then i dont know what to say.

Or you could just not get insulted because someone criticizes your personal faith? Don't worry if he says it's like X fairy tale, it is your personal faith.

The I'm offended, insulted, etc. card is rather overplayed and typically used to stifle criticism and conversation.
 
So I'm not allowed to express my believes because it offends theirs? Ok.
No, it's because you're being kind of a dick about it. Acting morally and intellectually superior to other people just because you think their answers for the enigmatic universe are wrong doesn't really give you an excuse to talk down to them. Your proof of the nonexistence of God is just as flimsy as their evidence of the contrary is.
 
No, it's because you're being kind of a dick about it. Acting morally and intellectually superior to other people just because you think their answers for the enigmatic universe are wrong doesn't really give you an excuse to talk down to them. Your proof of the nonexistence of God is just as flimsy as their evidence of the contrary is.

To be 100% clear: proving the existence or non-existence of a god or gods is impossible and arguing that point is absolutely foolish, I agree. Agnosticism is the only logical route to go.

That said, it is incredibly possible to dispute and disprove the much more specific details of specific religions.
 
No, it's because you're being kind of a dick about it. Acting morally and intellectually superior to other people just because you think their answers for the enigmatic universe are wrong doesn't really give you an excuse to talk down to them. Your proof of the nonexistence of God is just as flimsy as their evidence of the contrary is.

I don't see how I'm being a dick about it, nor am I acting morally or intellectually superior.
All this salt because I compared a couple of books which I believe to be equally fictitious.
 
And his family think is atheism is "just a fad" is not disrespectful to him as a person?
His family isnt here for me to talk to are they? I never said they were right either. I think most people have families that love to add their 2 cents. From religion to finances etc. Its just something you either deal with or shut them out. My point before regarding your other post was that your giving too much weight to his families influence. They will go home at the end of the day and only op and his wife will be there to raise their kid. I have no idea how often he sees his family but i doubt itll be remotely as close as he sees his kid and wife. His wife i also think would probably listen to him more then his family since you know she married him. Can we stop acting like shes not smart enough to work these things out with her husband and not succumb to his familys influence?
 
It doesn't sound like they are though, I don't see them doing anything out of the ordinary for a catholic family. He seems to be more aggressive in his stance than his wife's family is. Like, putting his foot down and saying 'my daughter will not do communion'. Why not let his daughter make that choice herself?

Again, I'm an atheist but I couldn't care less what my daughter grows up to believe in. If she asks I'll give her my opinion but if she wants to do her holy communion then who am I to stop her? It'd be hypocritical of me to do so since I did mine as a kid. I think he just needs to relax, they're only rituals. They themselves do nothing to strengthen a belief, they only have value if the belief is already there.

Im not agressive at all, I acommodate more than most actually. Its just crazy to me the point that "lets teach children a belief system for 10 + years and then she can decide!"

WHy not teach her all religion systems then? I dont care what she chooses to be in the end, I will keep loving and accepting her no matter what, but this is the kind of thinking that trumps crticial thinking early. And using the exceptions, religious upbrings that brought on atheists, as examples is doesnt matter, for every 1 person that decides not to believe there are thousands who just keep on believing. My thing is teaching children religion as truth, not as a belief people have. Big difference there
 
I'm an atheist, and I don't think you should get mad about getting religious gifts at a religious event.

Like, seriously.

If I got a gift as a birthday present, I'd be greatful and say "I really appreciate it, but I just wanted to inform you that I'm not a religous person, thanks anyways".

No need to be a dick about it.
 
I don't see how I'm being a dick about it, nor am I acting morally or intellectually superior.
All this salt because I compared a couple of books which I believe to be equally fictitious.

What I find strange is that you only get this sort of reaction when you criticise or joke about a religion. For most people, you could criticise their taste in music, clothes, political allegiance or whatever and they'd maybe take offence but wouldn't take it as hard as if you criticised their religion. Religion seems almost taboo when it comes to stuff like that.
 
You got married in a church? Wow, that's were I drew the line... I said no way, no how, I am not getting married in "God's name"... and in the end it worked out fine.
 
What I find strange is that you only get this sort of reaction when you criticise or joke about a religion. For most people, you could criticise their taste in music, clothes, political allegiance or whatever and they'd maybe take offence but wouldn't take it as hard as if you criticised their religion. Religion seems almost taboo when it comes to stuff like that.

No durr your talking about a persons belief in why they exist and the meaning of their life not their favourite pizza topping the fuck do you expect. Everyone reacts that way even atheists as this thread proves.

The way you wouldn't react like this is if you held no strong beliefs about anything at all.
 
Im not agressive at all, I acommodate more than most actually. Its just crazy to me the point that "lets teach children a belief system for 10 + years and then she can decide!"

WHy not teach her all religion systems then? I dont care what she chooses to be in the end, I will keep loving and accepting her no matter what, but this is the kind of thinking that trumps crticial thinking early. And using the exceptions, religious upbrings that brought on atheists, as examples is doesnt matter, for every 1 person that decides not to believe there are thousands who just keep on believing. My thing is teaching children religion as truth, not as a belief people have. Big difference there

You're getting it wrong. She doesn't decide at the end of her journey or whatever, she decides along the way. That doesn't me she can't/shouldn't go through Christian practices in the mean time if she wants to. It doesn't mean anything. It's not as if your daughter is going to do her Holy Communion and go 'That's it, there's a God. No changing my mind now'. These rituals are totally meaningless to someone who doesn't already have an existing belief, and therefore do absolutely no harm. If that's all it takes to keep the peace between you and your in-laws that seems like a no brainier to me.

And sure, you can teach her the systems of all religions if you want, but that's not the point I was making.
 
Im not agressive at all, I acommodate more than most actually. Its just crazy to me the point that "lets teach children a belief system for 10 + years and then she can decide!"

WHy not teach her all religion systems then? I dont care what she chooses to be in the end, I will keep loving and accepting her no matter what, but this is the kind of thinking that trumps crticial thinking early. And using the exceptions, religious upbrings that brought on atheists, as examples is doesnt matter, for every 1 person that decides not to believe there are thousands who just keep on believing. My thing is teaching children religion as truth, not as a belief people have. Big difference there

Honestly, I'm failing to see the problem that is going to occur. You've said that your wife isn't really religious. Does she plan on pushing the child through the Church and the traditional teachings?

The continual statement that you keep setting up; 'teaching children a belief system for 10+ yrs' doesn't seem to apply to your child...does it?

Religion seems almost taboo when it comes to stuff like that.

Because it is.
 
Im not agressive at all, I acommodate more than most actually. Its just crazy to me the point that "lets teach children a belief system for 10 + years and then she can decide!"

WHy not teach her all religion systems then? I dont care what she chooses to be in the end, I will keep loving and accepting her no matter what, but this is the kind of thinking that trumps crticial thinking early. And using the exceptions, religious upbrings that brought on atheists, as examples is doesnt matter, for every 1 person that decides not to believe there are thousands who just keep on believing. My thing is teaching children religion as truth, not as a belief people have. Big difference there
I was given basically no choice in the matter, my parents weren't even religious, but the first school that I went to, a public school not labelled as a religious school, forced all children to say prayers and sing hymns.

I totally get your decision to not have your child overly exposed to that stuff, it's brainwashing from an early age at a point where they don't have a choice in what to believe, so they just grow up thinking that's just how it is when they should have the right to decide for themselves as they grow up.

It's absolutely gross and it bothers me that society would try and force religion on a child who doesn't understand how.. mindset altering religion can be.
 
IMHO it is kind of too late now that you baptized the kid.

Parents should still be able regulate what their kids get as presents tho. Just take the book away from the kid later.
 
No durr your talking about a persons belief in why they exist and the meaning of life not their favourite pizza topping the fuck do you expect. Everyone reacts that way even atheists as this thread proves.

I expect people to act the same since there's really no difference between me insulting someone's favourite band and me insulting their religion. Religion is meaningless to some people in the same way music is meaningless to some people, it seems strange that one is so taboo compared to the other.

Because it is.

I know, but I don't get why.
 
Or you could just not get insulted because someone criticizes your personal faith? Don't worry if he says it's like X fairy tale, it is your personal faith.

The I'm offended, insulted, etc. card is rather overplayed and typically used to stifle criticism and conversation.
So its not insulting to say that adults who believe in religion may as well believe in fairy tales that children read?
 
I expect people to act the same since there's really no difference between me insulting someone's favourite band and me insulting their religion. Religion is meaningless to some people in the same way music is meaningless to some people, it seems strange that one is so taboo compared to the other.

Oh come on.

You are comparing apples to oranges here and you know it. For individuals that have a personal faith it is the bedrock for their worldview, life, and afterlife. Music isn't doing that for you...least not me.
 
someone brought a bible and a crucifix because it's a fucking baptism and the idea is that they're being introduced into the church. maybe they didn't know about your weird atheist caveat that it's all just a show to placate your wife.
 
I expect people to act the same since there's really no difference between me insulting someone's favourite band and me insulting their religion. Religion is meaningless to some people in the same way music is meaningless to some people, it seems strange that one is so taboo compared to the other.

No I can't take you seriously. You realize wars have been fought over religion?

I think so very little of you now, and trust me it's not because you are an atheist...
 
I expect people to act the same since there's really no difference between me insulting someone's favourite band and me insulting their religion. Religion is meaningless to some people in the same way music is meaningless to some people, it seems strange that one is so taboo compared to the other.

Yes how feel when someone calls you stupid for not believing in god and that you face eternal damnation. I'd say there's a good chance that stirs a reaction in you. and if not you specifically it does for a heck of a lot of people.

We're talking about someone actually beliefs here as in if someone considering racism as wrong, or that science is required for human development not largely meaningless things like tastes in music.

It's really, really silly to think such subjects won't stir some sort of emotions in people.
 
Oh come on.

You are comparing apples to oranges here and you know it. For individuals that have a personal faith it is the bedrock for their worldview, life, and afterlife. Music isn't doing that for you...least not me.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be open to critique or jest though.
Yes how feel when someone calls you stupid for not believing in god and that you face eternal damnation. I'd say there's a good chance that stirs a reaction in you. and if not you specifically it does for a heck of a lot of reactions.

We're talking about someone actually beliefs here as in if someone considering racism as wrong, or that science is required for human development not largely meaningless things like tastes in music.

It's really, really silly to think such subjects won't stir some sort of emotions in people.

I can promise you that it stirs no reaction within me.
 
So its not insulting to say that adults who believe in religion may as well believe in fairy tales that children read?

They do think that the other religions they do not believe in, are also fairy tales tho. Why not theirs? They somehow ended up with the right religion.

Unless they have some weird belief that all religions are true or something.
 
Sorry, I guess I can't help having a believe system that is inherently belittling to theirs.

"Inherently Belittling?" Atheism by definition is not "be a dick to anyone with religion" it is the absence of faith. Nothing about that is or should be belittling to anyone's religion. Telling someone that their beliefs don't deserve your respect is your own bad attitude giving voice to your inherent personality flaws.

I have no more respect for someone who follows religious texts that I do for someone who thinks Hansel and Gretel is a true story. Both are equally ridiculous and no one has ever given me a valid reason to change my mind.

Let's flip it around: Your belief system is inherently fallacious, undeserving of my respect, and your clinging to it is akin to the laughable ramblings of a naive child. Nothing you say could possibly change my mind.

Does that sound like a beacon of constructive discussion to you?
 
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be open to critique or jest though.

No one is prohibiting that, but it is taboo because you are talking about peoples deeply held beliefs. This really isn't that complex.

So its not insulting to say that adults who believe in religion may as well believe in fairy tales that children read?

I think you are getting hung up on the 'fairy tale'. It is really no different than telling you that your religion is a sham or falsity.
 
It doesn't sound like they are though, I don't see them doing anything out of the ordinary for a catholic family. He seems to be more aggressive in his stance than his wife's family is.

Wanting to put the cross on the kids crib and left them play with the Bible is not aggressive? But him say, so, no I don't want my child to have these is?

Like, putting his foot down and saying 'my daughter will not do communion'. Why not let his daughter make that choice herself?

That is a bullshit argument. She A BABY right now who is not capable of deciding for herself. Projecting into the future of what may happen to make the OP seem like a controlling asshole is disingenuous.

Again, I'm an atheist but I couldn't care less what my daughter grows up to believe in.

I'm an atheist too. If I had a child, I would go out of my way to expose my child to all faiths: Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. because understanding where people are coming from culturally is important knowledge that all people should learn. I would not allow my religious family to force too much of their religion on my child. Aka, I would not want my child coached early on into what the "one true faith is" during their formative years. I would celebrate Christian Christmas, along with Hanuka, Ramadan, Diwali, Kwanza, and the like to expose them to the core tenets behind each faith. I would also immerse them in museums, history, science, zoos, and logic. As they grow older, if they show interest in a faith, I would do my best to help guide them toward the knowledge they need to follow that path.

There is nothing wrong with exposing kids to faith. What is wrong is when they are only exposed to one faith. How can a kid chose their own belief personal when the parents shelter from all but one?
 
Yes how feel when someone calls you stupid for not believing in god and that you face eternal damnation. I'd say there's a good chance that stirs a reaction in you. and if not you specifically it does for a heck of a lot of reactions.

We're talking about someone actually beliefs here as in if someone considering racism as wrong, or that science is required for human development not largely meaningless things like tastes in music.

It's really, really silly to think such subjects won't stir some sort of emotions in people.

Really. There have been genocides and state sanctioned mass murder and war torn countries because of differences in religious ideology and McGreevious thinks it's equivalent to what bands someone happens to like/dislike.
 
No one is prohibiting that, but it is taboo because you are talking about peoples deeply held beliefs. This really isn't that complex.

Not everyone holds those beliefs to equal depths, yet as this thread demonstrates you can't say that you compare fairy tails to religious stories.

To some people their favourite band means more to them that any religion, yet if I were to compare X band to dog shit, no one would have a go at me for belittling those who think X are the greatest thing of all time.
 
Not everyone holds those beliefs to equal depths, yet as this thread demonstrates you can't say that you compare fairy tails to religious stories.

To some people their favourite band means more to them that any religion, yet if I were to compare X band to dog shit, no one would have a go at me for belittling those who think X are the greatest thing of all time.
You should meet one of my old classmates. I'm pretty sure he wanted to fight me when I dissed Eminem.
 
Bullshit. You are being very disingenuous, I'm an atheist but what you are saying is just crap.
"To SOME people"
To people who have no religion at all, like myself, my favourite TV show is probably more important to me than what other people believe in.

It's kinda part of the description. "Atheism" isn't a religion.

If being an Atheist "means" anything to you, then you are doing it wrong.
 
"To SOME people"
To people who have no religion at all, like myself, my favourite TV show is probably more important to me than what other people believe in.

It's kinda part of the description. "Atheism" isn't a religion/

Were talking about religious individuals here, not an atheist who really loves ABBA.
 
"To SOME people"
To people who have no religion at all, like myself, my favourite TV show is probably more important to me than what other people believe in.

It's kinda part of the description. "Atheism" isn't a religion/

TBF that's implicitly implied and I don't think really needs pointing out. Of course if you have no religion anything is more important than nothing.

The statement only has weight when someone religious has that same weighting.
 
Not everyone holds those beliefs to equal depths, yet as this thread demonstrates you can't say that you compare fairy tails to religious stories.

To some people their favourite band means more to them that any religion, yet if I were to compare X band to dog shit, no one would have a go at me for belittling those who think X are the greatest thing of all time.
You are severly undermining peoples devotion to their beliefs. People die for their religious beliefs. Wars are fought over them. How many people died in the name of their favorite band?
 
Were talking about religious individuals here, not an atheist who really loves ABBA.

TBF that's implicitly implied and I don't think really needs pointing out. Of course if you have no religion anything is more important than nothing.

The statement only has weight when someone religious has that same weighting.
Then yes, I get what you mean.

You can't compare "something" to "nothing", it's as simple as that. I don't presume to understand how religious people feel, but that much should be obvious.
 
You are severly undermining peoples devotion to their beliefs. People die for their religious beliefs. Wars are fought over them. How many people died in the name of their favorite band?

TBF it's not quite clear cut ironically to him. music can and will continue to be a method of communicating ideals and feelings. So yes some people may take it seriously but not for the reason he thinks.
 
Respect in honor, but I think religion is pure bullshit. Just think about it for a second and you realize it's just a big fat lie. However it took me a while to realize.

My family is not overly religious (except my dad's mother). My dad is a catholic and my mother protestant. I was baptized as a baby and had my confirmation four years ago. But in the meantime I got more and more skeptic about religion. Being a rational person most of the stuff the bible is trying to make us believe just sounds odd.

But I would be totally fine if relatives of mine brought a bible to the baptism of my kid. It's a religious event, so what do you expect?
 
Wanting to put the cross on the kids crib and left them play with the Bible is not aggressive? But him say, so, no I don't want my child to have these is?



That is a bullshit argument. She A BABY right now who is not capable of deciding for herself. Projecting into the future of what may happen to make the OP seem like a controlling asshole is disingenuous.



I'm an atheist too. If I had a child, I would go out of my way to expose my child to all faiths: Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. because understanding where people are coming from culturally is important knowledge that all people should learn. I would not allow my religious family to force too much of their religion on my child. Aka, I would not want my child coached early on into what the "one true faith is" during their formative years. I would celebrate Christian Christmas, along with Hanuka, Ramadan, Diwali, Kwanza, and the like to expose them to the core tenets behind each faith. I would also immerse them in museums, history, science, zoos, and logic. As they grow older, if they show interest in a faith, I would do my best to help guide them toward the knowledge they need to follow that path.

There is nothing wrong with exposing kids to faith. What is wrong is when they are only exposed to one faith. How can a kid chose their own belief personal when the parents shelter from all but one?

Because it's not feasible for one family to expose all faiths equally to their child. I agree that would be much better, but it's not really possible. And it's not a bullshit argument. OP literally said he won't be letting his daughter do her Holy Communion. I can find the post for you if you like, it was on this page or the last.

But it does in billions of others. I'm honestly starting to think you lack empathy.
It's got nothing to do with empathy.

Boldly stating you have no respect for someone with religion because their belief system is akin to a fairy tale isn't critique or jest, guys. It's just rude.

It is rude, but my point is why is it rude, whereas saying something similar about any other sort of belief or passion would be seen as more acceptable? I'm really not trying to be obtuse here, I see no reason why religion is seen as off-limits when it comes to certain things.

Bullshit. You are being very disingenuous, I'm an atheist but what you are saying is just crap.

I'm not being disingenuous. Some people care more about music than the ever have about any religion. To some people it basically is a religion.

You are severly undermining peoples devotion to their beliefs. People die for their religious beliefs. Wars are fought over them. How many people died in the name of their favorite band?

How many wars have been fought in the name of music?

Religious atrocities are tragic, I'm not denying that. But we still make jokes about other tragic events and wars.

As do I and I believe he's justifying atheism as an excuse to be unsympathetic to people's plights.
Where am I doing anything to justify my atheism? Most of my time in this thread has been telling OP to chill and that letting your child grow up following religious practices isn't the big deal he's making it out to be. None of what I've said has anything to do with empathy. You're equating me as not seeing religion as taboo and free from the criticism and riddicule that every other aspect of life is open to, as being unable to empathise with is a leap and a half.
 
I think the core element of ANY belief system, be it philosophical, scientific, or faith based, should be simply thus:

Don't be a dick to each other.
 
I think the core element of ANY belief system, be it philosophical, scientific, or faith based, should be simply thus:

Don't be a dick to each other.

200_s.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom