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[captainnapalm]

I don't understand why captainnapalm keeps equating atheism with Existential nihilism. One doesn't necessarily follow the other at all, any more than spirituality automatically precludes it.

If you happen to believe humanity is helplessly subject to the inscrutable whims of a mad god, I'd argue that's nihilism too.

And I'd agree. I don't believe in some outside God watching us, judging us. Said that at the beginning.

But how can atheism not lead to existential nihilism? Particularly if you're even a little bit committed to the premise.

As I said earlier, though, I don't actually think many people really are that committed. Their actions often betray that.

 

[Kinitari]

Again, your understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions, turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate before they're done with you. It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.

You look at it all wrong. When you look at a painting - you understand the base components of what make it. That there is a canvas, and that the material of the canvas can effect how the painting looks. That there is paint, and that the colours, texture and reflectiveness of the paint can also have varying effects on how the painting looks. The lighting in the room and the position on the wall alongside what is next to it.

Knowing all this - does the painting no longer have value as an artistic piece?

Also, cut out spirituality and a sense of being connected to something greater than yourself and all you're left with is your own shining intellect and ego. You become your own God. You risk becoming, as Bill Hicks put it, just another fevered little ego tainting the collective unconscious. And I see plenty of that with atheists. And we do live in a chronically self-obsessed culture.

In what culture? North American? Where the vast vast majority is spiritual? And where we have become progressively more aware of the ethical treatment of all human beings - alongside our ever increasing secular ideologies?

 

[BigDes]

Again, your understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions, turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate before they're done with you. It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.

Also, cut out spirituality and a sense of being connected to something greater than yourself and all you're left with is your own shining intellect and ego. You become your own God. You risk becoming, as Bill Hicks put it, just another fevered little ego tainting the collective unconscious. And I see plenty of that with atheists. And we do live in a chronically self-obsessed culture.

I think you are projecting your own fears onto people here

 

[Seanspeed]

Again, your understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions, turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate before they're done with you. It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.

Its the same sort of bullshit argument that says that atheists are corrupt and without morals. We're telling you here and now that viewing the universe as explainable DOES NOT diminish our capacity for love and wonder. It in fact, can enhance these things a whole hell of a lot.

Also, cut out spirituality and a sense of being connected to something greater than yourself and all you're left with is your own shining intellect and ego. You become your own God. You risk becoming, as Bill Hicks put it, just another fevered little ego tainting the collective unconscious. And I see plenty of that with atheists. And we do live in a chronically self-obsessed culture.

You have no idea what you're talking about here. A bunch of made-up mumbo jumbo based on inaccurate preconceived notions.

 

[BigDes]

And I'd agree. I don't believe in some outside God watching us, judging us. Said that at the beginning.

But how can atheism not lead to existential nihilism? Particularly if you're even a little bit committed to the premise.

As I said earlier, though, I don't actually think many people really are that committed. Their actions often betray that.

My life has value through my family and friends

That I happen not to believe in God or gods has no bearing on my opinions on my life's worth

 

[Davidion]

Again, your understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions, turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate before they're done with you. It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.

Also, cut out spirituality and a sense of being connected to something greater than yourself and all you're left with is your own shining intellect and ego. You become your own God. You risk becoming, as Bill Hicks put it, just another fevered little ego tainting the collective unconscious. And I see plenty of that with atheists. And we do live in a chronically self-obsessed culture.

There's nothing here other than baseless assertions that's conveniently levied against one group and not everyone else. You're assuming that recognizing the system behind the image automatically induces lack of passion when you haven't shown how.

It's equally easy to assign ego to someone who is deeply spiritual; the very idea that your own self is an inherent, inseparable extension of a grander being and/or purpose is practically tautologically egotistic. You also can't explain why, if spirituality dilutes ego and the latter can taint the former, collective populations of religious and spiritual persons have repeatedly exercised insularity and force their collective wills on punishing or excluding innocent persons and groups that they deemed improper despite their ignorance of the larger body of knowledge that we have now.

I don't think you've really thought out your argument all that well.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Again, your understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions, turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate before they're done with you. It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.

Okay, let's break down what you're saying:

1. Understanding reduces human emotions to chemical reactions.
Correct, human emotions are chemical and other reactions. That doesn't stop you from ascribing meaning to them though.

2. Understanding turns your body into a functional shell for genes that are only interested in seeing you procreate
Correct, the genes are often referred to as the true rulers of earth, using the bodies of organisms to spread. Just like before, that does not mean that you cannot ascribe meaning to your own life.

3.It's not hard to see how a person can become cold and clinical when they view life and love as dispassionately as that.
No, but who the heck view life and love as just that?
You seem to think that knowledge of these things mean that we cannot ascribe our own, self-determined, meanings to these phenomena.
Once again, no matter how well we understand these processes you can still ascribe meaning to them.

Also, cut out spirituality and a sense of being connected to something greater than yourself and all you're left with is your own shining intellect and ego. You become your own God. You risk becoming, as Bill Hicks put it, just another fevered little ego tainting the collective unconscious. And I see plenty of that with atheists. And we do live in a chronically self-obsessed culture.

You can have a sense of spirituality while being aware of the understanding of things and not ignore empirical explanations for them. You can also do this with or without the sense of being connected with a greater whole.

Egocentrism is a whole other thing, and I don't get why you've made the jump to that from atheism.

 

[PSYGN]

I was visited by this guy while I tried taking a nap in the afternoon when I was a young kid.

He defied gravity by running very quickly around my room walls and ceiling and started tickling me. And then he disappeared and I was a little confused so I walked out and told my mom and she laughed and told me it was a dream. That was probably my most vivid dream ever as I remember it clearly to this day.

So to answer your question, no, but I wanted to share my story.

 

[The Technomancer]

The painting analogy seems particularly apt, so I'll repeat it: does recognizing the pigment and the brush-strokes and the canvas on a painting take away from its meaning?

You seem to think that knowledge of these things mean that we cannot ascribe our own, self-determined, meanings to these phenomena.
Once again, no matter how well we understand these processes you can still ascribe meaning to them.

Exactly

 

[captainnapalm]

Using evidence makes you a soulless nihilistic robot apparently

Which claims? I readily admit that much of what I say can not be scientifically proven. But that doesn't matter to me. This is about subjective reality, the relationship we have with the universe. Thanks, but no room for an objective third party to verify.

 

[Hale-XF11]

I've had more profound experiences on acid than I ever did going to a church or taking part in any so-called religious activities while growing up. Religion held me back. Psychedelics set me free.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

you're all alive and feeling stuff.

I'm feeling pretty fucking nauseated at this point.

 

[Dude Abides]

Yes, only people in college entertain such silly notions. Till they grow up and face up to the cold, dead reality of the material world.

Like, grow up, man. Be more dead inside and cut off from everyone around you in an intellectual prison that rationalises everything, you're all alive and feeling stuff.

Well, college students, charlatans, and dupes. I was being charitable.

 

[captainnapalm]

The painting analogy seems particularly apt, so I'll repeat it: does recognizing the pigment and the brush-strokes and the canvas on a painting take away from its meaning?


Exactly

No, but you don't just recognize it, you see these component parts as somehow causing the whole. What room for the painter in your analogy?

 

[Oppo]

Which claims? I readily admit that much of what I say can not be scientifically proven. But that doesn't matter to me. This is about subjective reality, the relationship we have with the universe. Thanks, but no room for an objective third party to verify.

It's like looking into the eyes of a goat.

Your argument, sad to say,is a huge wank, and I'm surprised at how ferociously you're defending such linguistic pablum.

You've been presented several well-intentioned questions as to these (non-material!) ideas you have, and all you do is spin your wheels. And you're fucking rude while you do it.

 

[captainnapalm]

Well, college students, charlatans, and dupes. I was being charitable.

Also dry, witty and detached. Kudos.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

No, but you don't just recognize it, you see these component parts as somehow causing the whole. What room for the painter in your analogy?

To continue this analogy, do you really need to know of the painter to enjoy a painting?
Another analogy:

The grand canyon or ayers rock is nature's equivalent of a painting, only without a creator.
We know that they and other natural sights have been shaped through a number of natural processes, but does this make them any less breathtaking?

 

[Kinitari]

No, but you don't just recognize it, you see these component parts as somehow causing the whole. What room for the painter in your analogy?

The components do cause the whole - without the components, there would be nothing observable.

The painter? In this scenario it's Science. By itself, paint and a canvas can randomly meet and randomly create something beautiful (art in nature, like natural wonders/life randomly being created), but the Scientist/Painter can manipulate this when they understand it, and can create some amazing things (personal art/medicine).

 

[Seanspeed]

subjective reality

Without science, a subjective reality is a just a blind, ignorant reality where we can just make up all sorts of fun nonsense to explain things.

 

[Arjen]

And I'd agree. I don't believe in some outside God watching us, judging us. Said that at the beginning.

But how can atheism not lead to existential nihilism? Particularly if you're even a little bit committed to the premise.

As I said earlier, though, I don't actually think many people really are that committed. Their actions often betray that.

Around 44% of my country, and plenty of other western european countries is not religious. I've been born and raised not relgious, so have both my parents, when is this wave of Nihilism going to kick in?

 

[captainnapalm]

There's nothing here other than baseless assertions that's conveniently levied against one group and not everyone else. You're assuming that recognizing the system behind the image automatically induces lack of passion when you haven't shown how.

It's equally easy to assign ego to someone who is deeply spiritual; the very idea that your own self is an inherent, inseparable extension of a grander being and/or purpose is practically tautologically egotistic. You also can't explain why, if spirituality dilutes ego and the latter can taint the former, collective populations of religious and spiritual persons have repeatedly exercised insularity and force their collective wills on punishing or excluding innocent persons and groups that they deemed improper despite their ignorance of the larger body of knowledge that we have now.

I don't think you've really thought out your argument all that well.

This is an easy one. Religious does not equal spirituality. Most religious people are falsely pious and have no room for true spirituality. They just have a book with rules they want to make everyone follow. This is religion as form of control, as part of the power structure. I would condemn it just as I condemn the political and economic systems that also form part of the power structure.

While, we're on the subject, howsabout a bit more hate for those other two. They cause far more damage in the world, but I guess they are not as easy targets as the religious institutions. Also, atheists tend to lump all religious people together when they condemn a faith, which isn't fair either. There are some genuinely good people you're sweeping under the carpet.

As for the notion of being part of something greater being egotistical, that's just absurd.

 

[Dude Abides]

Also dry, witty and detached. Kudos.

 

[Seanspeed]

 

[BigDes]

This is an easy one. Religious does not equal spirituality. Most religious people are falsely pious and have no room for true spirituality. They just have a book with rules they want to make everyone follow. This is religion as form of control, as part of the power structure. I would condemn it just as I condemn the political and economic systems that also form part of the power structure.

While, we're on the subject, howsabout a bit more hate for those other two. They cause far more damage in the world, but I guess they are not as easy targets as the religious institutions. Also, atheists tend to lump all religious people together when they condemn a faith, which isn't fair either. There are some genuinely good people you're sweeping under the carpet.

As for the notion of being part of something greater being egotistical, that's just absurd.

It's almost as unfair as lumping all atheists in as nihilists

 

[captainnapalm]

Around 44% of my country, and plenty of other western european countries is not religious. I've been born and raised not relgious, so have both my parents, when is this wave of Nihilism going to kick in?

I'm not religious either.

 

[Kinitari]

While, we're on the subject, howsabout a bit more hate for those other two. They cause far more damage in the world, but I guess they are not as easy targets as the religious institutions. Also, atheists tend to lump all religious people together when they condemn a faith, which isn't fair either. There are some genuinely good people you're sweeping under the carpet.

Yeah, all these atheists are always the sorts of people that make generalizations about others. It's a trend I've noticed in them.

/irony

 

[la flama blanca]

I don't believe in God, but I do believe in unexplainable supernatural forces.

 

[captainnapalm]

It's almost as unfair as lumping all atheists in as nihilists

Fair point. Technically, I am an atheist too, of course, in the sense that most people use it - not believing in a God up in the sky who made us and wants us to do this and that. But whatever.

 

[Davidion]

This is an easy one. Religious does not equal spirituality. Most religious people are falsely pious and have no room for true spirituality. They just have a book with rules they want to make everyone follow. This is religion as form of control, as part of the power structure. I would condemn it just as I condemn the political and economic systems that also form part of the power structure.

While, we're on the subject, howsabout a bit more hate for those other two. They cause far more damage in the world, but I guess they are not as easy targets as the religious institutions. Also, atheists tend to lump all religious people together when they condemn a faith, which isn't fair either. There are some genuinely good people you're sweeping under the carpet.

As for the notion of being part of something greater being egotistical, that's just absurd.

Religion does not merely consist of the power structure that are in place but also the people who seeks spiritual fulfillment. You do not get to dictate what "true" spirituality is. Sure atheists are guilty of stereotyping as well, but I don't really recall defending them as being above it.

YOU think the spirituality being egotistical its absurd, again without proof. Spirituality is not formless and exercising it predicates on formed, compartamentalized opinions no matter how enlightened its practitioner thinks it is. It's particularly ironic given your somewhat recent assertion that most religious people are falsely pious and have no room for true spirituality.

 

[Bisnic]

I'm not religious either.

But you said yourself that "God is everything". Isn't that in itself a religious claim?

 

[Arjen]

I'm not religious either.

So, i'm kind of lost here, you say that Atheist are not open to spiritual experiences? Me and my friends have tons of discussions on the matter, your claim that astheist are turning into Nihilist, where are you basing this on?

 

[The Technomancer]

No, but you don't just recognize it, you see these component parts as somehow causing the whole. What room for the painter in your analogy?

We are all the painters. We are all the painters made of paint, because the amazing ability of the human mind is the ability to be self-reflective, and nothing about this self-reflective nature transcends the physical "paint" from which it is composed, and none of it requires metaphysical explanation.

 

[captainnapalm]

So, i'm kind of lost here, you say that Atheist are not open to spiritual experiences? Me and my friends have tons of discussions on the matter, your claim that astheist are turning into Nihilist, where are you basing this on?

I'm saying that it seems to me that nihilism is a logical extension of atheism. And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning. That's a personal opinion, having considered it from my perspective, if I were to embrace that view.

 

[captainnapalm]

But you said yourself that "God is everything". Isn't that in itself a religious claim?

Only in a loose Buddhist sense. But I'm not even a Buddhist. There's no need for a middle man or middle organisation of any kind.

So God as synonym for the sum totality of reality. That we are all just expressions of that totality. That's where we came from and we'll eventually go back. If you're anything, you're really part of that, not John Smith or whoever you are right now. That will pass.

 

[Arjen]

I'm saying that it seems to me that nihilism is a logical extension of atheism. And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning. That's a personal opinion, having considered it from my perspective, if I were to embrace that view.

Then you need to start using another term, because that's not wat atheist means.
You can't just lump them all into that self defined catagory,

Only in a loose Buddhist sense. But I'm not even a Buddhist. There's no need for a middle man or middle organisation of any kind.

So God as synonym for the sum totality of reality. That we are all just expressions of that totality. That's where we came from and we'll eventually go back. If you're anything, you're really part of that, not John Smith or whoever you are right now. That will pass.

Sounds a bit like taoism to me.

 

[Davidion]

I'm saying that it seems to me that nihilism is a logical extension of atheism. And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning. That's a personal opinion, having considered it from my perspective, if I were to embrace that view.

This is where your entire argument breaks down. Yes nihilism may be a logical extension of atheism; I say may because the truthfulness of that is another debatable tangent which I don't have time for right now. However, so are many other possible extensions, and you haven't shown how or why logical extensions must be followed.

Logical extensions aren't always logical; everything's a logical extension. Using a vague enough definition the logical extension of atheism is shooting one self in the face immediately from sheer despair after discovering the lack of one's relative significance to this world. It's a preposterous idea.

 

[Raist]

I'm saying that it seems to me that nihilism is a logical extension of atheism. And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning. That's a personal opinion, having considered it from my perspective, if I were to embrace that view.

So by "atheism" you mean something completely different that has absolutely nothing to do with it nor is connected in any way. Coolio.

It's as relevant as saying that pedophilia is a logical extension of christianity because you're supposed to love everyone.

 

[Seanspeed]

Then you need to start using another term, because that's not wat atheist means.
You can't just lump them all into that self defined catagory,

Well he can and he will, because thats really the only way his argument works.

 

[Riposte]

I can't explain the exact mechanics on why planes fly. Because I don't know.

 

[Raist]

I can't explain the exact mechanics on why planes fly. Because I don't know.

Pilots worship Icarus, duh.

 

[captainnapalm]

This is where your entire argument breaks down. Yes nihilism may be a logical extension of atheism; I say may because the truthfulness of that is another debatable tangent which I don't have time for right now. However, so are many other possible extensions, and you haven't shown how or why logical extensions must be followed.

Logical extensions aren't always logical; everything's a logical extension. Using a vague enough definition the logical extension of atheism is shooting one self in the face immediately from sheer despair after discovering the lack of one's relative significance to this world. It's a preposterous idea.

Fair enough. I just think getting older and approaching death, no matter how good your life was, would have to be pretty depressing if you're a full on atheist who believes this one life on planet of the apes is all you're ever going to experience. I'd probably start to fear the inescapable void somewhat.

And considering life had no real meaning or purpose would strike me as incredibly senseless. Why then do I have this consciousness that seems to rally against the notion so strongly. Why give me the power to imagine, laugh, love? Just functions of my swirling chemicals? Pointless, all of it. It would make me fairly nihilistic.

But I accept now that that may not be true for everyone. This thread has actually changed my opinion as far as that is concerned, somewhat. Those are just my views, doesn't mean others will share it.

 

[captainnapalm]

So by "atheism" you mean something completely different that has absolutely nothing to do with it nor is connected in any way. Coolio.

Well, I honestly thought that's how most atheists would define themselves. Believe me, I'm glad to be wrong.

 

[Davidion]

Fair enough. I just think getting older and approaching death, no matter how good your life was, would have to be pretty depressing if you're a full on atheist who believes this one life on planet of the apes is all you're ever going to experience. I'd probably start to fear the inescapable void somewhat.

And considering life had no real meaning or purpose would strike me as incredibly senseless. Why then do I have this consciousness that seems to really against the notion so strongly. Why give me the power to imagine, laugh, love? Just functions of my swirling chemicals? Pointless, all of it. It would make me fairly nihilistic.

But I accept now that that may not be true for everyone. This thread has actually changed my opinion as far as that is concerned, somewhat. Those are just my views, doesn't mean others will share it.

I mean, I'm sure you'll find SOME people who are as nihilistic as you described, but those are typically the outliers. I think you should talk to more atheists in real life and not just use internet ones as points-of-reference. You'd be surprised by what you find.

 

[Freezie KO]

I'm saying that it seems to me that nihilism is a logical extension of atheism. And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning. That's a personal opinion, having considered it from my perspective, if I were to embrace that view.

Maybe you'd embrace a more logical worldview if you weren't so afraid of the consequences.

I just think getting older and approaching death, no matter how good your life was, would have to be pretty depressing if you're a full on atheist who believes this one life on planet of the apes is all you're ever going to experience. I'd probably start to fear the inescapable void somewhat.

I'm terrified. And yes, it fucking sucks. But that doesn't make it any less true. Searching for reality has to be divorced from how we feel about it.

 

[ari]

my old house in matteson,illinois 60443 was haunted as shit.

1) I will never forget the date of march 6,1998, around midnight or later in my basement/room, the furnace and the washer and dryer starting turning off and on and shaking violently. my brother room door opening and closing, also violently. wooden stairs sounded like boots running up and down constantly. the futon mattress i was sleeping on was shaking and pulsing just like a heart beat. cockroaches coming from cracks when not having any known pests and bugs. I started screaming like a little bitch and crying because i already knew what this shit was.

At first I thought it was an earthquake, but i just knew it wasn't, it felt like watching a vicious dog growl at you. that fear was just so surreal. no one else felt anything or heard anything later the next day, so that confirms not having an earthquake that night.....It was too real for any dream, and i couldn't go back to sleep for shit later that night because i was petrified for obvious reasons. no cockroaches, no evidence to show people...just that haunted damn memory.

Funny though, march 6 was the same day my mom had the house blessed with her pastor...........yea. take that as you will.

2) Another night, I'm pretty sure my sister had closed and locked the front door because it was pretty routine. the next morning, my dad starting yelling because the door was wide open. He said "why the fuck are you guys leaving the door open? You're letting spirits in". I don't know why, but that felt creepy as shit. Anyway, this continue for 4 days straight though out the day from various times. my pops got tired of us being careless ( I swear to god that i and my sister never left that door open, I'm 100% positive.) until my dad installed a beeping door alarm and automatic locking system with bolt locks for the front and back doors. A week later or so from that happening, my dad cleaned out the garage and parked his truck in there. A down the street neighbor was spotted entering our lawn by my pops. He was creeping up along the side of the house and my dad woke me up from the living room couch. My dad wanted to beat the shit out of him so he went to the alarm control panel to release the locks, the lights went red meaning error or something and the dead bolts wouldn't release. so my dad just pushed the police officer button. The guy was wiggling the door knob...i was pretty scared but my dad was ready for this motherfucker. we can see him through the front window, and as soon as my dad turned around, there was another guy in the backyard looking around. The cops rolled upped and sound their alarms, both guys and a car of 3 guys were arrested. Both men at the house was armed with guns, duplicated house keys for the front door and screen door, 3 pillow cases, 2 way radios and dressed in all black. The other guys in the car was also dressed in all black and one had a gun. On the neighbors statement, he wrote that he didn't think any one was home and had no intent on using the guns, he also knew that we didn't had a security system because he tried the keys a couple of weeks before at our yard sale(2 days before the front door starting opening mysteriously by itself)

Senica(the robber) said in court that he never went back to try and test the keys in between the first time and during the attempted robbery. All guys served jail time and was part of the folks (chicago gang).

I am pretty sure that alarm system malfunction and opening of the front door saved my dads life. Also, the door never opened by itself ever again after that even without the dead bolts on. :/

3) When i was in the navy, I was stationed in meridian mississippi for A school. On my last weekend after i got my hard copy orders, i started binge drinking and partying heavily. Someone by the name of SH2 rodgers, called my parents saying that i have attempted suicide on friday, october 10th 2008. I have misplaced my first gen iphone the day before when i set up shop on at the local motel 7 thursday night. i haven't call anyone since i found the phone on sunday october 12th. I have seen the voicemail messages from my parents,sister and cousins. I have listened to all of the voicemails and i was furious and at the same time embarrassed because I can't believe that someone told my parents that i have tried to kill my self, i would never try to do something like that. I called them back and they were so relieved that i was alright. My friends knocked on my door and was heading out to a local restaurant called garfields where all the local military personal head to at the local mall. We was all drinking heavily and the place is only down the street. I didn't want to go because i felt awful about this and was talking to my parents.

Jamar Clayton, My friend that was going on leave with me back home in chicago, crashed his rented car near the mall, killing a pedestrian, along with him and both of my other friends that was passengers. I would've been in that car if i have never found that iphone and talked with my loved ones. I live with this everyday of my life, and i just can't fall this under coincidence.

The navy have apologize on behalf of Meridian air base to my family about the mistake. SH2 rodgers have only been notified bits and pieces by the local police department saturday morning, that a Navy personal, Seamen Guidry, attempted suicide because his family members have died in a car crash killing all three of his love ones in upstate new york. I am also a seamen Guidry, But my name was Nathan Guidry, and he is Lorenzo Guidry. She assumed it was me because i was also a SH. So she was worried and jumped the gun and notified my parents, at the same time calling my phone.

I have so much other shit that had happen to me to not be a believer to some degree. I do not believe in church...i don't believe in an utopia of some sorts after death..but i believe in the concept of god. I believe that there is something that is more then mere coincidence. :/

 

[captainnapalm]

We are all the painters. We are all the painters made of paint, because the amazing ability of the human mind is the ability to be self-reflective, and nothing about this self-reflective nature transcends the physical "paint" from which it is composed, and none of it requires metaphysical explanation.

Well, I disagree, I think we transcend the physical paint at a fundamental level, but I do agree that it doesn't really require explanation.

I enjoy the search for some kind of answer, though. And my personal experiences have led me to believe there is more to the physical world than meets the eye.

 

[Arjen]

Well, I honestly thought that's how most atheists would define themselves. Believe me, I'm glad to be wrong.

Good to hear that.

 

[Seanspeed]

Fair enough. I just think getting older and approaching death, no matter how good your life was, would have to be pretty depressing if you're a full on atheist who believes this one life on planet of the apes is all you're ever going to experience. I'd probably start to fear the inescapable void somewhat.

And considering life had no real meaning or purpose would strike me as incredibly senseless. Why then do I have this consciousness that seems to really against the notion so strongly. Why give me the power to imagine, laugh, love? Just functions of my swirling chemicals? Pointless, all of it. It would make me fairly nihilistic.

In the grand scheme of things, yes, it might well all be pointless. It doesn't make our individual lives and feelings and experiences meaningless, though. If you gave it a chance, you might actually see that.

Ultimately, you're not really much different from most any other religious person in that you believe what is comforting, not what is more rational. Its the old "There HAS to be more to it all" notion that really just seems to come from fear rather than any logical conclusion.

 

[BigDes]

Well, I honestly thought that's how most atheists would define themselves. Believe me, I'm glad to be wrong.

Yeah, when you said here

"And by atheism here I mean more than just not believing in an external God, but believing in a solely materialist world free of higher spiritual truths and principles and meaning" you've actually piled on a lot more uh things (go me and my selective vocabulary) than most atheists would agree to.

Not believing in an external God is pretty much where you have to stop as it not being a unified organisation or belief system pretty much means that is the only thing you can say all atheists will agree on

 

[IceCold]

I find it sad that some people need religion to give their life meaning.