Support NeoGAF

[tnw]

Hmm. I dunno. To me anyway, a Japanophile is someone who pretty much just consumes Japanese arts at the near exclusion of others.

You know, putting it this way, I guess I am a japanophile. I love modern japanese architects and the arthouse japanese architecture (I interened at a firm last spring), almost to the exclusion of other architects. I really like japanese music, but none of the J-pop chaff that's so popular on this forum (a lot of people though have similar taste in music to me) I love japanese festivals more than american festivals. I like that it has universal health care, I like the more socialist mentality here, the high bottom line in general, I love the fact that I can live without a car and reduce my carbon footprint way beyond anything I could do in the US. I reallly really like a lot of the food here, the regional diversity we don't really have in the US and the resulting amount of culinary exploring that is possible as a result. and I wish that the US could learn some things so that 75% of its population isn't obese 10 years from now.

But I don't think a lot of those things fall under the steretypical japanophile label. I picture a japanophile hitting up macdonalds (or maybe yoshinoya because they read about it on some forum), guzzling fizzy drinks before going to the maid cafes in 'akiba' >_> to pick up lots of games before going to shinjuku/roppongi to hit on girls.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

It`s called cultural respect, smart guy.

Which is why it's so unnatural/wierd/annoying.

 

[mashoutposse]

Curious: What are the aspects of living in Japan that surprise and scare away the Japanophiles that have never been there?

 

[starchild excalibur]

Really? I think it`s okay. They`re learning something. It`s a lot better than idiots who don`t watch subtitled movies because it`s in another language.

Many of my students started learning english because they love american movies, and the subs in japanese are often transliteration, rather than translation. I think it`s great.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the appeal of another culture's entertainment being the motivating factor. And like you said, at least you're learning another culture's language. It's just that when I think of how many doors learning a new language unlocks - being able to converse with millions of new people and find new insights for example - only using it to be entertained just feels hollow to me. People are welcomed to do so, but personally I just think it's unsatisfying.

 

[Defuser]

Curious: What are the aspects of living in Japan that surprise and scare away the Japanophiles that have never been there?

Some Japanese don't like foreigners.......

 

[Brobzoid]

It`s called cultural respect, smart guy.

I'm losing my tits in annoyance regardless of what it's called.

 

[thetrin]

Which is why it's so unnatural/wierd/annoying.

I call the president of my company Kusonoki Kacho when I speak english. I do it because it`s a matter of respect.

I didn`t realize being respectful was irritating. Maybe you guys should loosen up a bit.

 

[JzeroT1437]

Nope, that is just this skewed vision of these people that more and more people seem to have recently

a japanophile can also mean just someone who studies japanese history or culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanophile

It seems to me that those people have missed the entire point of the "phile" suffix. Perhaps it's this kind of foolishness that makes people hate them.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Curious: What are the aspects of living in Japan that surprise and scare away the Japanophiles that have never been there?

umm absence of giant robots?

I'm not really sure. They just expect everything to be more perfect than where they come from. At least that is all I could gather from the people who left. I really didn't like most of them anyway so I stayed away.

 

[valparaiso]

I guess I am a japanophile.

NO SHIT

 

[cvxfreak]

Curious: What are the aspects of living in Japan that surprise and scare away the Japanophiles that have never been there?

It's usually the subtleties that'll kill one's interest if the culture shock doesn't.

For example, a Japanese toilet might bug someone who first visits. Or the food portions are too small.

That person may get over those, but once he/she discovers assertiveness in the workplace isn't like it is in the U.S., that may be the final push to turn someone off.

 

[thetrin]

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the appeal of another culture's entertainment being the motivating factor. And like you said, at least you're learning another culture's language. It's just that when I think of how many doors learning a new language unlocks - being able to converse with millions of new people and find new insights for example - only using it to be entertained just feels hollow to me. People are welcomed to do so, but personally I just think it's unsatisfying.

Well, you can call anime a gateway drug, if you will. They learn it for anime, but find how much it applies elsewhere, and suddenly find that they can use it to get a job, travel the world, and teach other people the same knowledge.

It`s immature now, but who knows where it could lead them?

 

[mashoutposse]

Ah, I guess it's in the little details that one wouldn't even think to consider. The bathroom thing would kill it for me, too

Some Japanese don't like foreigners.......

Now that would suck

 

[starchild excalibur]

Well, you can call anime a gateway drug, if you will. They learn it for anime, but find how much it applies elsewhere, and suddenly find that they can use it to get a job, travel the world, and teach other people the same knowledge.

It`s immature now, but who knows where it could lead them?

True dat.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Here we go against with the fabrications. I'll write my stance in simple words: I do not feel that learning a new language just to watch anime is a good use of such knowledge. Just like I wouldn't feel learning Spanish just to read comic books that have been widely translated would be a great use of such knowledge. I do not believe people who do so deserve to be mocked, nor do I believe they are wrong for doing so. Their motivations are simply different than my own. I accept that people do it, and I'm fine with it. I just don't see the same value in it that they do.

I have trouble believing you due to your tone is some other posts, but I'll call a spade a spade at this point. The point I'm trying to make is that many people start learning a language for a multitude of reasons, and to attest that any of them are shitty is ridiculous. I also find it hard to imagine someone who becomes highly skilled in a language to have limited themselves to just one medium. It's inherent to learning a language sucessfully that you expand yourself. It just happens and I can't think of anyone I know who has learned a language or two that this hasn't happened to. Those who did, ultimately failed.

And anyway, it's not like you started off on a nice and friendly tone in this thread.

If you are outraged by that or find it shocking then you really are just being unnecessarily histrionic.

Well, that is me.

 

[Shouta]

Should be noted that anime fans don't really call the extreme idiots "Japanophiles" cause it's too broad of a term. tnw for example is a Japanophile but isn't what folks refer to normally.

Most anime fans refer to the "Japanophiles" talked about in this thread by various other names like weaboo or actually using otaku in the offensive manner.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Some Japanese don't like foreigners.......

Yeah the dirty looks from old ladies did get pretty old. I started to just make it a point to stare back at them with a smile :lol

But old people in any country suck.

 

[thetrin]

Yeah the dirty looks from old ladies did get pretty old. I started to just make it a point to stare back at them with a smile :lol

But old people in any country suck.

Racist american war veterans irritate me more than anything.

 

[tnw]

NO SHIT

speaking of, you all cleaned up now? That was an excellent thread.

 

[pjberri]

Why Kendo and not fencing?

Japanophiles are, more often than not, the warts on the face of human society. I know of some extremely respectable people who have a genuine fascination with the finer points of Japanese culture—I hold someone like one of my Japanese lecturers who is a walking Kanji dictionary in the highest esteem. But if your reason for being obsessed with another country's culture is fleeting pop culture, then you're a waste of life as far as I'm concerned.

Why are Japanophiles (and if you're not what I'm describing then you're not what I'm talking about, so don't dare quote me and say "BU-BU-BUT NOT ALL JAPANOPHILES ARE LIKE THAT?") rarely interested in the most interesting facets of Japanese culture; film, fine art, music (not JPop), literature, architecture, etc? It's always anime, videogames, jpop, and whatever stems from this shit. I'll be honest and say that I watched, and enjoyed, Paprika the other night and like the handful of other anime that aren't mind-numbing shit, but as a whole it is extremely juvenille. I have almost no respect for the connoisseur of anime who is above the age of 18, maybe even that is pushing it. None of the Japanese people I know are into this crap, so why are you? And If I were to find that a Japanese person was obsessed with America because they watched Laguna Beach a lot and loved the Pussy Cat Dolls, I wouldn't think very highly of them, either.

I haven't even started on how socially inept Japanophiles are, and the plethora of other topics I could cover. There are very, VERY, good reasons why people think Japanophiles are pieces of shit (and for good reason).

 

[thetrin]

Why Kendo and not fencing?

Japanophiles are, more often than not, the warts on the face of human society. I know of some extremely respectable people who have a genuine fascination with the finer points of Japanese culture—I hold someone like one of my Japanese lecturers who is a walking Kanji dictionary in the highest esteem. But if your reason for being obsessed with another country's culture is fleeting pop culture, then you're a waste of life as far as I'm concerned.

Why are Japanophiles (and if you're not what I'm describing then you're not what I'm talking about, so don't dare quote me and say "BU-BU-BUT NOT ALL JAPANOPHILES ARE LIKE THAT?") rarely interested in the most interesting facets of Japanese culture; film, fine art, music (not JPop), literature, architecture, etc? It's always anime, videogames, jpop, and whatever stems from this shit. I'll be honest and say that I watched, and enjoyed, Paprika the other night and like the handful of other anime that aren't mind-numbing shit, but as a whole it is extremely juvenille. I have almost no respect for the connoisseur of anime who is above the age of 18, maybe even that is pushing it. None of the Japanese people I know are into this crap, so why are you? And If I were to find that a Japanese person was obsessed with America because they watched Laguna Beach a lot and loved the Pussy Cat Dolls, I wouldn't think very highly of them, either.

I haven't even started on how socially inept Japanophiles are, and the plethora of other topics I could cover. There are very, VERY, good reasons why people think Japanophiles are pieces of shit (and for good reason).

Alright. All asians who like the Batman Animated series are pieces of shit too. **** EM ALL.

(also, paprika is one of Satoshi Kon`s worst movies)

 

[Brofist]

I think anyone that displays a sort of unhealthy obsession with anything in general comes off as a bit creepy. Also as mentioned before, some of the Japanophiles do also come across as being a bit elitist. Usually it's the people that know only know about Japan through pop culture references, and Japanese entertainment.

If anything I myself have participated in many less topics about Japan, because of the type of people that participate in them. They usually become pissing matches about who knows most.

 

[starchild excalibur]

I have trouble believing you due to your tone is some other posts, but I'll call a spade a spade at this point. The point I'm trying to make is that many people start learning a language for a multitude of reasons, and to attest that any of them are shitty is ridiculous. I also find it hard to imagine someone who becomes highly skilled in a language to have limited themselves to just one medium. It's inherent to learning a language sucessfully that you expand yourself. It just happens and I can't think of anyone I know who has learned a language or two that this hasn't happened to. Those who did, ultimately failed.

And anyway, it's not like you started off on a nice and friendly tone in this thread.

I was only speaking from my personal experiences and, like i said, made sure not to allude that those types of people were the majority. As stated earlier, I enjoy anime and grew up with some friends who'd be considered japanophiles and some of the character stereotypes stated in this thread simply hold true in my personal experiences.

We'll have to agree to disagree on some of this. I don't feel bad about having an opinion about someone's motivations and I'be surprised if in all the years you've been alive, you never found a friend's or peer's motivations occasionally odd or idiotic. Nevertheless, you still accept and respect them and ultimately that's what matters. Saying it's wrong for people to have differing opinions on these things deserves to be ignored in my book and just reeks over-defensiveness. If you think it's a waste of time for me to go to film school and feel that i should just enter the world of production, fine. I may disagree with you, but i'll never say you're wrong for holding that opinion.

As thetrin said, it may be considered immature now, but at least it can lead them somewhere.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Why Kendo and not fencing?

Why fencing and not kendo?

Honestly both are great hobbies. I just happened to read some musashi and such when I was in high school that interested me in kendo.

And to comment on the rest of your post: People like something that you don't so they are pieces of shit?

Great.

 

[brocke]

Why Kendo and not fencing?

Japanophiles are, more often than not, the warts on the face of human society. I know of some extremely respectable people who have a genuine fascination with the finer points of Japanese culture—I hold someone like one of my Japanese lecturers who is a walking Kanji dictionary in the highest esteem. But if your reason for being obsessed with another country's culture is fleeting pop culture, then you're a waste of life as far as I'm concerned.

Why are Japanophiles (and if you're not what I'm describing then you're not what I'm talking about, so don't dare quote me and say "BU-BU-BUT NOT ALL JAPANOPHILES ARE LIKE THAT?") rarely interested in the most interesting facets of Japanese culture; film, fine art, music (not JPop), literature, architecture, etc? It's always anime, videogames, jpop, and whatever stems from this shit. I'll be honest and say that I watched, and enjoyed, Paprika the other night and like the handful of other anime that aren't mind-numbing shit, but as a whole it is extremely juvenille. I have almost no respect for the connoisseur of anime who is above the age of 18, maybe even that is pushing it. None of the Japanese people I know are into this crap, so why are you? And If I were to find that a Japanese person was obsessed with America because they watched Laguna Beach a lot and loved the Pussy Cat Dolls, I wouldn't think very highly of them, either.

I haven't even started on how socially inept Japanophiles are, and the plethora of other topics I could cover. There are very, VERY, good reasons why people think Japanophiles are pieces of shit (and for good reason).

Anyone who thinks the way you do is in my opinion a waste of life. People are into different things. There are people obsessed with important things in this world and those obsessed with things revolving around entertainment.

For all we know, life ends when you die with no afterlife, so why not live it doing what you like?

 

[Shouta]

Why Kendo and not fencing?

People like slashing instead of poking?

 

[Brofist]

Curious: What are the aspects of living in Japan that surprise and scare away the Japanophiles that have never been there?

Usually when they find out that Japan isn't a ****ing anime land, and their (warped) image of what Japan is comes crashing down leaving behind a harsh reality.

 

[RevenantKioku]

As thetrin said, it may be considered immature now, but at least it can lead them somewhere.

Well, I guess I may not totally disagree with you, but your mannerisms in deploying said thoughts were quite irritating. I'll forgive you. For now.

 

[brocke]

Usually when they find out that Japan isn't a ****ing anime land, and their (warped) image of what Japan is comes crashing down leaving behind a harsh reality.

Then they haven't seen Akihabara.

edit: Akihabara on a Sunday would probably make them ejaculate 10x over.

 

[thetrin]

Usually when they find out that Japan isn't a ****ing anime land, and their (warped) image of what Japan is comes crashing down leaving behind a harsh reality.

Basically.

This is the advice I give any person I know visiting Japan: "Japan is a regular country just like any other." That is to say, it`s not some crazy pop culture paradise, or whatever one`s misinformed impressions could be telling them. It`s a great country for sure, and I love living here, but some love it, and some don`t.

 

[Y2Kev]

People like slashing instead of poking?

Then they should fence sabre!

 

[mashoutposse]

Alright. All asians who like the Batman Animated series are pieces of shit too. **** EM ALL.

(also, paprika is one of Satoshi Kon`s worst movies)

Not all. Just those that place American culture on a pedestal and use that personal perception of superiority as a reason to shun the society by which they were unceremoniously rejected

 

[Oblivion]

Hey, what's wrong with going to an animu convention?

 

[Brofist]

Then they haven't seen Akihabara.

I wont say that anime isn't embedded in the culture, but I'm speaking of people who were university classmates of mine in Japan that were generally surprised that all of Japan wasn't an anime theme park.

 

[Shouta]

(also, paprika is one of Satoshi Kon`s worst movies)

I don't know how I missed this. Even if it is (I don't think it is), it's still awesome and better than most anime movies.

 

[brocke]

Not all. Just those that place American culture on a pedestal and use that personal perception of superiority as a reason to shun the society by which they were unceremoniously rejected

the thing is, usually japanophiles are shunning the rightously bad parts of american society. just like if these americaphiles in japan were bitching about japan's bad economy and how much better americas' is. or the huge tits on women here.

 

[brocke]

Hey, what's wrong with going to an animu convention?

those conventions make me ashamed to watch anime.

edit: most notably the showings they have of the anime music videos.

 

[Shouta]

Hey, what's wrong with going to an animu convention?

Nothing unless you're socially inept, smell bad, and/or crazy. If you're any of those then it's bad but that can be the same for any sort of convention/expo. I've never been to an anime convention but my friends that have seem to have a fun time like any other convention.

 

[thetrin]

Not all. Just those that place American culture on a pedestal and use that personal perception of superiority as a reason to shun the society by which they were unceremoniously rejected

What if they weren`t rejected from another country, and still put american culture on a pedestal?

That would be your average republican american, I would think.

Spoiler

Don`t respond to that. Let`s not turn this into a politics thread

 

[mashoutposse]

the thing is, usually japanophiles are shunning the rightously bad parts of american society. just like if these americaphiles in japan were bitching about japan's bad economy and how much better americas' is. or the huge tits on women here.

Are you serious? Japanese Americaphiles sound like my type of people!

 

[thetrin]

I don't know how I missed this. Even if it is (I don't think it is), it's still awesome and better than most anime movies.

Absolutely awesome. I loved it. It`s just Kon`s worst.

 

[RevenantKioku]

those conventions make me ashamed to watch anime.

edit: most notably the showings they have of the anime music videos.

Hey, you want to go to the yaoi room?

Absolutely awesome. I loved it. It`s just Kon`s worst.

So basically it's like you saying "This is the least expensive diamond I have."?

Nah, I thought Perfect Blue was his worst. I liked Paprika about the same as Tokyo Godfathers. I haven't seen Millenium Actress though.

;-; My gateway drug!

 

[Shouta]

Absolutely awesome. I loved it. It`s just Kon`s worst.

Nah, I thought Perfect Blue was his worst. I liked Paprika about the same as Tokyo Godfathers. I haven't seen Millenium Actress though.

 

[Oblivion]

those conventions make me ashamed to watch anime.

edit: most notably the showings they have of the anime music videos.

I mean, I guess it would be kinda weird seeing ugly people dressed up in anime costumes, but other than that, it seems like any convention where you can go meet people in the industry and have fun.

*shrug*

 

[brocke]

Are you serious? Japanese Americaphiles sound like my type of people!

that's what i'd be obsessing over if i were an americaphile. lol

and i will give all my japanese male students complimentary hot american women pictures as motivation lol.

Spoiler

of course under the guise of movie posters

 

[drohne]

i've never really thought about it, but it seems like japanophiles -- or at least the japanophiles who show up on game forums -- feed exclusively on the scum of japanese culture. anime, manga, pornography, videogames, pop music, etc. if you're going to identify so strongly with a foreign culture, you ought to have better reasons.

 

[tnw]

Are you serious? Japanese Americaphiles sound like my type of people!

my old japanese roommate was a francophile, absolutely hated most of japan. He lived in paris for a year or 2 awhile back.

He was actually the exact kind of japanese person I like. He had all of the Japanese 'training' (cultural, culinary), but had awesome style. He would watch agatha christy and stuff. he had excellent taste, very similar to mine I'd like to think.

 

[pjberri]

EDIT: Double posted, am idiot.

 

[thetrin]

i've never really thought about it, but it seems like japanophiles -- or at least the japanophiles who show up on game forums -- feed exclusively on the scum of japanese culture. anime, manga, pornography, videogames, pop music, etc. if you're going to identify so strongly with a foreign culture, you ought to have better reasons.

Quite honestly, if you check the forum archives, tnw, myself and other jgaffers do make threads about traditional japanese things, from food, to hanafuda, to shogi.

Hardly anyone posts in them. I would say I`m more of a japanophile than those who just bottom feed on anime, since I actually PLAY Hanafuda on a weekly basis, while others just know it as "that card game that made Nintendo famous".

The bottom feeders aren`t really japanophiles at all. They`re just pop culture addicts that like the green grass on the other side of the fence. Kids in Japan are no different.

People think anime is all we care about, because no one will ****ing post in the other threads we make!!

 

[brocke]

i've never really thought about it, but it seems like japanophiles -- or at least the japanophiles who show up on game forums -- feed exclusively on the scum of japanese culture. anime, manga, pornography, videogames, pop music, etc. if you're going to identify so strongly with a foreign culture, you ought to have better reasons.

jesus f*ing christ, a countries digital entertainment is not scum. most of the world uses television, movies, music, videogames as their primary form of entertainment and could care less about great literary works.