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Bakersfield police shoot dead unarmed man suffering from dementia.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38309192

California police shot dead a 73-year-old dementia sufferer after reports he might have a gun, only to find he was carrying a crucifix.
Bakersfield officials said officers opened fire at Francisco Serna seconds after he was pointed out to them.

Police said he refused officer commands to take his hands out of his pockets, and neighbours had complained he was threatening people and might be armed.
A 2015 study rated Bakersfield Police Department as the deadliest in the US.
Mr Serna's family said the shooting in the city, 110 miles (177km) north of Los Angeles, was murder.

Francisco Serna's wife, Rubia Serna, was comforted by her children during a candlelight vigil outside her home
"It is difficult to accept that our dad's life ended so brutally, abruptly and with such excessive violence," the family said in a statement read aloud during a candlelight vigil at their home on Tuesday night.
"We feel our dad was stolen from us at a time when our family should be celebrating the holidays, birthdays and making happy family memories."
The retired father-of-five was shot to death in his neighbour's driveway at around 00:45 local time on Monday.

He was walking towards a police officer who was responding to a report of an armed man acting threateningly, officials said.

Bakersfield police chief Lyle Martin said Officer Reagan Selman fired seven shots at Serna when he was about 15-20ft (4-6m) away from him. Officer Selman, and six other officers present, have been placed on routine administrative leave.

Chief Martin initially said the object found in Mr Serna's pocket was difficult to describe, without offering further details.

But a subsequent statement from Bakersfield Police Department read: "During a search of Mr Serna a dark colored simulated woodgrain crucifix was recovered.
"Mr Serna was not armed at the time of the shooting. No firearm has been recovered."

Police say that Mr Serna accosted two different people in his southwest Bakersfield neighbourhood, before the fatal encounter with police.


In the first incident, a neighbour said Mr Serna was banging on windows and doors outside his house on Sunday afternoon, while keeping one hand on an object inside his pocket.

When the man opened his door, Mr Serna grabbed his hand to pull him outside while challenging him to fight, according to the neighbour, who did not initially report the incident to police.

The man believed that Mr Serna was carrying a pistol, he later said.
In the second incident, Mr Serna approached two female neighbours in their driveway shortly after midnight and demanded to see inside their vehicle.
Mr Serna again kept his hand on an object inside his jacket pocket during the encounter.

The woman ran inside her house and called police to report that she had seen a dark brown or black-handled object which she believed was a gun.As officers spoke to the women, Mr Serna left his house and began walking towards them, which led to the fatal shooting, said police.

Officers opened fire about 20 to 30 seconds after the woman had pointed Mr Serna out to them, Chief Martin said.
"My dad did not own a gun. He was a 73-year-old retired grandpa, just living life," his son, Rogelio Serna, said.
"He should have been surrounded by family at old age, not surrounded by bullets," he told the LA Times.

A 2015 Mapping Police Violence study rated Bakersfield Police Department as the deadliest in the country, logging 13.6 killings for every million people, compared with a US average of 3.6.

Just read about this what a terrible tragedy. Something really needs to be done about this. It just keeps happening and nothing ever happens or very rarely at least.

Please lock the topic if old.
 
A 2015 Mapping Police Violence study rated Bakersfield Police Department as the deadliest in the country, logging 13.6 killings for every million people, compared with a US average of 3.6.

Judge Dredd justice.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
California police shot dead a 73-year-old dementia sufferer after reports he might have a gun, only to find he was carrying a crucifix.

Cannot make this shit up.
 
Remember the days when we used to argue on GAF whether cops were a little quick to go for the taser? Those were some simpler times.
 
They shot an old man who did not know where or very likely even who he was.

Because they were told he had a gun and he didn't respond to verbal commands.

And yet they want us to accept that they need rifles and armored trucks.

Fucking Christ.
 
I will not excuse the police action, but as upset as this family is now, why weren't the present with the man?

Dementia is a very scary disease. It's not pretty to watch someone go through it. Family has to be very diligent about the actions of the patient. He should have never been out walking alone like that or had those kinds of encounters with the neighbors. How are the neighbors supposed to understand his condition if they don't know him?

The shooting is far beyond any action the police should have taken. I am just as disgusted by it as everyone else. But I personally feel it's a more graceful end to his life than the toll dementia can have on a person. If there's anyone that's been a caregiver to a family member with dementia might understand what I'm trying to say.
 

kirblar

Member
That stat is super important for contextualizing this. This was an escalation of force from a department that clearly has serious issues with over-escalating during police encounters. When you're approaching someone who's possibly armed but has their hand in the pocket, you can approach them. Why? Because if they try to pull on you you'll be able to shoot first- you already your sights on them and will beat them to the punch.

The police treating him as though he was armed based on the reports from neighbors wasn't an issue- it's how they handled that information.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Unfortunately, this probably escalated the moment the victims of his harassment called and said he wqa probably armed with a pistol. Cops are on heightened alert at that point.

This one doesn't sound so cut and dry link everyone in the thread has so far acted, although the shooting is, as always, an unnecessary mistake. Where are the tasers, mace, etc? Why are these LTL means never employed?
 
I will not excuse the police action, but as upset as this family is now, why weren't the present with the man?

It was the middle of the night, even if he had early signs of dementia what would you expect them to do, tie him down in bed and lock the door?

From the LA Times coverage:
Serna’s son said his father was showing the early signs of dementia and occasionally experienced delusions. The elder Serna also had difficulty sleeping and frequently went on late-night walks to tire himself out before bed, his son said.

Also from the Times:
Bakersfield police had visited Francisco Serna’s home at least two times before because his father would become confused and activate a medical alarm, Rogelio Serna said.

Why would a medical alarm bring the fucking police instead of someone trained to deal with a medical emergency...the police should never, ever be fucking called for someone having a mental crisis, because we KNOW that the only tool a cop is going to reach for is designed to kill. I know in some out there counties there's no choice but Bakersfield should do fucking better than this...
 

RMI

Banned
Bakersfield police chief Lyle Martin said Officer Reagan Selman fired seven shots at Serna when he was about 15-20ft (4-6m) away from him

shot him 7 fucking times without reason.
 

kirblar

Member
Unfortunately, this probably escalated the moment the victims of his harassment called and said he wqa probably armed with a pistol. Cops are on heightened alert at that point.

This one doesn't sound so cut and dry link everyone in the thread has so far acted, although the shooting is, as always, an unnecessary mistake. Where are the tasers, mace, etc? Why are these LTL means never employed?
If we had less info, I don't think you'd be wrong to be withholding judgement. But the stats combined with the description of events:
Bakersfield police chief Lyle Martin said Officer Reagan Selman fired seven shots at Serna when he was about 15-20ft (4-6m) away from him
strongly indicate this is a police force with no clue how to de-escalate a situation properly and that's getting no pushback from anyone.
 

dan2026

Member
I honestly feel like police training in America ranges from abysmal to non-existent.
They clearly haven't got a clue what they are doing half the time.

Also why do they always seem to empty their clip into people instead of just shooting them once.
One bullet is enough unless you really want to kill someone.

And I'd seriously hope they aren't actively trying to murder people.
 

DavidDesu

Member
Yeah that's murder plain and simple. The police should be trained ONLY to shoot when they're actually in danger, i.e. they see an actual gun being pulled, not just shooting at someone who at that point poses only a potential risk. POTENTIAL. Terrible training and terrible human beings who did this.
 
It was the middle of the night, even if he had early signs of dementia what would you expect them to do, tie him down in bed and lock the door?.

A dementia patient should never be allowed at night like that. He had more than one encounter with a neighbor. And now saying he often got confused and disoriented.

Yes, I understand, it is very difficult to start placing restrictions on a parent and slowly take away their freedoms, but it's for their safety. So are things like taking away a vehicle to prevent them from driving. It's difficult and emotional hard to step in and be in that position, but it's for the well being of the parent.

Like I said, I do not condone the shooting. And 7 times is way to excessive in any circumstance. But the family was putting the father's safety at risk letting him out like that. What if it was a neighbor he started arguing with and someone shot him?
 
Like I said, I do not condone the shooting. And 7 times is way to excessive in any circumstance. But the family was putting the father's safety at risk letting him out like that. What if it was a neighbor he started arguing with and someone shot him?

When faced with the mental and/or physical deterioration of a relative, people tend to ignore it and/or pretend it isn't "as bad" as it actually is.

The family seemed to not acknowledge or downplay the previous episodes he had.

Also you can't keep an eye on someone 100% of the time, it's tough.

With that being said, you'd hope the cops would ask questions first and shoot later. But that's not the case in Bakersfield, from someone who lives here. It's a shitshow.
 

Dali

Member
The butcher of Bakersfield. Running man was apparently an accurate representation of the cops there.
 

The Lamp

Member
I will not excuse the police action, but as upset as this family is now, why weren't the present with the man?

Dementia is a very scary disease. It's not pretty to watch someone go through it. Family has to be very diligent about the actions of the patient. He should have never been out walking alone like that or had those kinds of encounters with the neighbors. How are the neighbors supposed to understand his condition if they don't know him?

The shooting is far beyond any action the police should have taken. I am just as disgusted by it as everyone else. But I personally feel it's a more graceful end to his life than the toll dementia can have on a person. If there's anyone that's been a caregiver to a family member with dementia might understand what I'm trying to say.

People with dementia can escape the building in the moment you decide to use the bathroom.
 
Bakersfield citizen here, I'm really upset that the police didn't handle the situation in a non-violent way but at the same time their actions don't surprise me, they are violent and also corrupt. I remember a few years back they tried searching my family's house without a warrant, they even brought a couple of cop cars with them too for intimidation purposes. We refused to let them in but eventually they got a warrant from a judge, searched the place for a couple hours, found nothing and then left.
 
People with dementia can escape the building in the moment you decide to use the bathroom.
It's not about him escaping once. It's the family not taking his condition seriously. I went through my grandmother living with dementia and actaully being a caregiver to her for part of the year for about 5 years.

Now I hear stories of my mother from my sister. She doesn't have dementia yet, but she's living in a huge fantasy world and finally got placed into a nursing home because of issues like her trying to wander off and having conversations with people that lived in the tree outside her bedroom.
No one has ever denied her mental state of being or downplayed her actions. My sister was on constant supervision and did things to prevent her from harming herself.

It's a sad situation that could have prevented by the family if they took action to help their father instead of letting a mental incapable person roam the streets.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
It's not about him escaping once. It's the family not taking his condition seriously. I went through my grandmother living with dementia and actaully being a caregiver to her for part of the year for about 5 years.

Now I hear stories of my mother from my sister. She doesn't have dementia yet, but she's living in a huge fantasy world and finally got placed into a nursing home because of issues like her trying to wander off and having conversations with people that lived in the tree outside her bedroom.
No one has ever denied her mental state of being or downplayed her actions. My sister was on constant supervision and did things to prevent her from harming herself.

It's a sad situation that could have prevented by the family if they took action to help their father instead of letting a mental incapable person roam the streets.

...Are you victim blaming?
 

Dali

Member
Given the information they had, I find it difficult to blame the police for this.
Except that's the info they always seem to have. Some bitch ass neighbor says someone has a gun. The cowards take this as confirmed fact. Show up on site and kill an unarmed person.
 

kirblar

Member
Given the information they had, I find it difficult to blame the police for this.
The issue wasn't treating the person as though they were armed. It was how they handled that information. Guy got shot from meters away by a guy with his sights trained on him. That shouldn't be happening, as if the guy makes a pull-out movement, the people trained on him will be able to shoot first.
 
Given the information they had, I find it difficult to blame the police for this.

The police should have known the man from having been called to his house twice before, known the neighborhood they were in and identified the man before unloading on him. I can find plenty to blame the police for.
 
In the first incident, a neighbour said Mr Serna was banging on windows and doors outside his house on Sunday afternoon, while keeping one hand on an object inside his pocket.

When the man opened his door, Mr Serna grabbed his hand to pull him outside while challenging him to fight, according to the neighbour, who did not initially report the incident to police.

The man believed that Mr Serna was carrying a pistol, he later said.

In the second incident, Mr Serna approached two female neighbours in their driveway shortly after midnight and demanded to see inside their vehicle.

Mr Serna again kept his hand on an object inside his jacket pocket during the encounter.
The woman ran inside her house and called police to report that she had seen a dark brown or black-handled object which she believed was a gun.

As officers spoke to the women, Mr Serna left his house and began walking towards them, which led to the fatal shooting, said police.

Officers opened fire about 20 to 30 seconds after the woman had pointed Mr Serna out to them, Chief Martin said.

The man clearly had mental illness. However, after reading that assessment, I can't fault the officers.

Nobody on the scene knew the guy or anything about his condition. He acted in a very threatening manner and made it appear he had a weapon in his pocket.

What would you do if this guy turns toward you suddenly and jostles around with an object in his pocket?

I want to know who his caretakers were? Was he reported missing? Did he even have any caretakers?

Lots of questions to be answered. The man clearly needed constant supervision and it sure didn't look like he had it if he's out wondering around like that.

Maybe he slipped out unbeknownst to his caretakers?

Maybe it's just a tragic incident and nobody is to blame?
 

Hagi

Member
They shot him 7 times. You honestly expect me to believe that shooting a 70 year old man 7 times was the only option available to them. Man I can't with your god awful police forces.
 
...Are you victim blaming?
I'm not blaming the man himself. He had a mental condition that made it so he was unaware of his actions or the actions of the police. But there could have been preventative measures to ensure the man's safety that were ignored.
 

DedValve

Banned
Remember the days when we used to argue on GAF whether cops were a little quick to go for the taser? Those were some simpler times.

When was this? Police brutality has always existed and hell it's probably getting ever so slightly better than it was before.
 

A Fish Aficionado

I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
I'm not blaming the man himself. He had a mental condition that made it so he was unaware of his actions or the actions of the police. But there could have been preventative measures to ensure the man's safety that were ignored.
You mean like the cops themselves?
People with dementia or Alzheimer's escape from their households in a relatively normal basis. They aren't treated as prisoners, and sometimes wander off. They shouldn't be murdered by police because of that.
 
Christ man, it never amazes me the mental gymnastics people use to defend cops in this country. These motherfuckers are like deified or some shit now.
 
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