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[Guevara]

The Pentagon asked (Ross McNutt, the founder of Persistent Surveillance Systems) if he could develop something to figure out who was planting the roadside bombs that were killing and maiming American soldiers in Iraq. In 2006 he gave the military Angel Fire, a wide-area, live-feed surveillance system that could cast an unblinking eye on an entire city.

The system was built around an assembly of four to six commercially available industrial imaging cameras, synchronized and positioned at different angles, then attached to the bottom of a plane. As the plane flew, computers stabilized the images from the cameras, stitched them together and transmitted them to the ground at a rate of one per second. This produced a searchable, constantly updating photographic map that was stored on hard drives. His elevator pitch was irresistible: “Imagine Google Earth with TiVo capability.”

The images weren’t perfect. Analysts on the ground could see individual cars moving through the streets, but they couldn’t tell what make or model they might be. Pedestrians were just pixelated dots; you couldn’t distinguish a man from a woman, or an Iraqi civilian from an American soldier. Individual recognition, however, wasn’t the point; any dot could be followed backward or forward in time, which opened up all sorts of investigative possibilities.

If a roadside bomb exploded while the camera was in the air, analysts could zoom in to the exact location of the explosion and rewind to the moment of detonation. Keeping their eyes on that spot, they could further rewind the footage to see a vehicle, for example, that had stopped at that location to plant the bomb. Then they could backtrack to see where the vehicle had come from, marking all of the addresses it had visited. They also could fast-forward to see where the driver went after planting the bomb—perhaps a residence, or a rebel hideout, or a stash house of explosives. More than merely identifying an enemy, the technology could identify an enemy network.

McNutt demonstrated the prototype to a group of Marines at a California base in 2006. “They called up their general,” McNutt recalls, “and when he saw it, he said, ‘I need this, and I need it right now—in Fallujah.’ ”

(Since the Freddie Gray riots) a small Cessna airplane equipped with a sophisticated array of cameras was circling Baltimore at roughly the same altitude as the massing clouds. The plane’s wide-angle cameras captured an area of roughly 30 square miles and continuously transmitted real-time images to analysts on the ground. The footage from the plane was instantly archived and stored on massive hard drives, allowing analysts to review it weeks later if necessary.

Since the beginning of the year, the Baltimore Police Department had been using the plane to investigate all sorts of crimes, from property thefts to shootings. The Cessna sometimes flew above the city for as many as 10 hours a day, and the public had no idea it was there.

A company called Persistent Surveillance Systems, based in Dayton, Ohio, provided the service to the police, and the funding came from a private donor. No public disclosure of the program had ever been made.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-baltimore-secret-surveillance/?src=longreads

Fascinating, if slightly terrifying stuff.

TLDR: a network of small planes fly above Baltimore, recording basically everything that happens. Cops can then tie individual crimes back to cars and even people, and then track them back to their home addresses, etc.

 

[Guevara]

Screen shot of the system:

I think this does maybe a better job explaining how it works.

 

[slider]

Such a simple concept although, of course, implementation needs the technology to be mature enough.

Security freaks will love this. Others, perhaps not so much.

 

[SJRB]

Amazing concept and technology, but obviously also highly worrying that these kind of surveillance methods are used on a daily basis.

Baltimore isn't Iraq, last time I checked.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Imagine if Lester Freamon had this shit. The Wire wouldn't have lasted more than one season.

 

[Guevara]

Imagine if Lester Freamon had this shit. The Wire wouldn't have lasted more than one season.

That's right, having to get warrants for cellphone taps seems almost quaint.

 

[iPaul93]

Imagine if Lester Freamon had this shit. The Wire wouldn't have lasted more than one season.

My thoughts exactly lol.

 

[Hanso]

Wow. I think this should be applied to every City. You can't make out individuals as who they are, but are able to solve crimes in no time.

If it works like described it's tech that should spread. Being a little innocent dot that could be followed in some kind of conspiricy drama is less worring to me as all the personal data I leave on the internet.

Sure it would have been nice to tell this before though.

 

[ThatGayWolf]

Wow. I think this should be applied to every City. You can't make out individuals as who they are, but are able to solve crimes in no time.

If it works like described it's tech that should spread. Being a little innocent dot that could be followed in some kind of conspiricy drama is less worring to me as all the personal data I leave on the internet.

Sure it would have been nice to tell this before though.

The lack of transparency in implementation is appalling. MAYBE put this to a vote, but to do it without asking? No way. This is some Orwellian shit, you better think long and hard about your privacy rights.

 

[stanis]

is this effective tho? last time i checked wjz, crimes are still going unsolved.

 

[AndyD]

Wow. I think this should be applied to every City. You can't make out individuals as who they are, but are able to solve crimes in no time.

If it works like described it's tech that should spread. Being a little innocent dot that could be followed in some kind of conspiricy drama is less worring to me as all the personal data I leave on the internet.

Sure it would have been nice to tell this before though.

Problem is that there's no privacy. If they know where you live, what car you drive, they can track your every move. Imagine the implications for a minute of every person being trackable in real time, crime committed or not.

 

[FirstBlood]

There's a Radiolab episode about this from last year

It's really incredible. And scary. But mostly incredible.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm okay with this given proper controls, as it should lead to fewer investigative confrontations and wrongful arrests.

 

[Kinyou]

It makes sense for cities where crime is incredibly rampant. I imagine in cities like that people would also be more willing to give up their privacy. That they never got to make that choice though is a problem.

 

[Kurtofan]

Hamsterdam

 

[inner-G]

I'm gonna make a hat out of a mirrorball so the camera can't see me

 

[PeskyToaster]

Kind of cool tbh. At least tech wise.

 

[The Faceless Master]

and of course this will be used fairly and not overwhelmingly used as a tool to oppress minorities!

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

and of course this will be used fairly and not overwhelmingly used as a tool to oppress minorities!

Unless they've improved resolution significantly it can't distinguish between a white person and a black person.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Unless they've improved resolution significantly it can't distinguish between a white person and a black person.

they'd know details about incidents before going to the tech to roll back or forward.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Unless they've improved resolution significantly it can't distinguish between a white person and a black person.

They'll just patrol the poor people and not anyone else.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

This would make for a fantastic Season 6 of the Wire.

 

[DavidDesu]

I await faulty hard drive excuses just coinciding with every time the police batter fuck out of someone or shoot someone in the back... If we had some kinf of unbiased robot law enforcement overlord running this I'd be ok with it, something incorruptible. Sadly humans are anything but. We can already piece together highly detailed information on a person or place from random nuggets of seemingly innocuous data, so you can just imagine adding this into the mix. In effect this could help track a person even if they leave their phone and technology behind. Just find the last point at which someone was with their phone and you can possibly track them afterwards.

At the end of the day this is a shitload of data to sift through and for what? It's highly intrusive and only catches things after the fact so in terms of prevention it's useless. Will be nice to know the names of the people who suicide bombed themselves bit it won't stop the act.

 

[Burt]

Can't wait until they realize it'll make them more money to use this for mailing out speeding and parking tickets.

 

[commedieu]

Unless they've improved resolution significantly it can't distinguish between a white person and a black person.

It can tell the difference because it won't be used equally in a white neighborhood.

Also..

https://vault.fbi.gov/protests-in-b...edited-versions-of-video-surveillance-footage

 

[Timbuktu]

God damn, David Simon needs to get back to Baltimore, there is easily enough to fuel another few seasons of stories for the Wire.


Edit:

Imagine if Lester Freamon had this shit. The Wire wouldn't have lasted more than one season.

Imagine if Herc had this, which was more likely.

 

[MightyKAC]

So the takeaway here is, it's cool to have Big Brother surveil a major metropolitan area without anyone's knowledge or consent just as long as it's only poor and/or brown people.

Good to know.

 

[Hanso]

Problem is that there's no privacy. If they know where you live, what car you drive, they can track your every move. Imagine the implications for a minute of every person being trackable in real time, crime committed or not.

But I am trackable right now? Every move with my mobile makes me trackable. I think we stepped away from being untraceable a long time ago. If someone wanted to know what I do everyday, they can. Without the camera system. Its even easier, as the camera actually need someone to go through the data. My city has cameras everywhere. My mobile sends my location. My laptop and browsing habits can tell if I was browsing on my laptop or someone else.

The camera system can at leat be used to solve crimes if it is used this way. And I think it will be more useful than going through all kinds of video tapes and mobile connections to find a suspect. Like everything it can be used for good and bad. But I don't see my privacy invaded more than it is right now.

But as previously mentioned: should not have happened without any information. This is scary and damages this techs reputation.

 

[Costia]

But I am trackable right now? Every move with my mobile makes me trackable. I think we stepped away from being untraceable a long time ago. If someone wanted to know what I do everyday, they can. Without the camera system. Its even easier, as the camera actually need someone to go through the data. My city has cameras everywhere. My mobile sends my location. My laptop and browsing habits can tell if I was browsing on my laptop or someone else.

The camera system can at leat be used to solve crimes if it is used this way. And I think it will be more useful than going through all kinds of video tapes and mobile connections to find a suspect. Like everything it can be used for good and bad. But I don't see my privacy invaded more than it is right now.

But as previously mentioned: should not have happened without any information. This is scary and damages this techs reputation.

AFAIK to get your phone's data they will need a warrant. They don't need anything to use the camera data.
Edit: another thing is that with the phone data they will have to target you specifically - i.e. know in advance whos data they need. This type of system can potentially track everyone who is on camera. ( argus - a different military system - demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxNyaXfJsA )

 

[UraMallas]

They'll just patrol the poor people and not anyone else.

This actually fixes that, though. I'm not for it at all, but the idea that the person who commits the crime is easily trackable back to where they live makes it easier to catch the right person, regardless of race. That is, if they can surveillance the entire city.

 

[A Serious Man]

It's a guarantee that officers have already used this to track their significant others.

 

[FelixOrion]

The footage from the plane was instantly archived and stored on massive hard drives, allowing analysts to review it weeks later if necessary.

Oh but collecting and storing body cam footage is soooooooooo costly and impractical

get fucked BPD

 

[WedgeX]

It's a guarantee that officers have already used this to track their significant others.

I was going to make a drunk McNulty joke but I see my work has been done for me.

 

[DerangedHermit]

God damn, David Simon needs to get back to Baltimore, there is easily enough to fuel another few seasons of stories for the Wire.


Edit:

Imagine if Herc had this, which was more likely.

No need, he already had his buddy Fuzzy Dunlop

 

[ahoyhoy]

The Pentagon asked (Ross McNutt, the founder of Persistent Surveillance Systems) if he could develop something to figure out who was planting the roadside bombs that were killing and maiming American soldiers in Iraq.

McNutty my man! Always real good at cutting those corners weren't you bushy top.

 

[MUnited83]

 

[numble]

But I am trackable right now? Every move with my mobile makes me trackable. I think we stepped away from being untraceable a long time ago. If someone wanted to know what I do everyday, they can. Without the camera system. Its even easier, as the camera actually need someone to go through the data. My city has cameras everywhere. My mobile sends my location. My laptop and browsing habits can tell if I was browsing on my laptop or someone else.

The camera system can at leat be used to solve crimes if it is used this way. And I think it will be more useful than going through all kinds of video tapes and mobile connections to find a suspect. Like everything it can be used for good and bad. But I don't see my privacy invaded more than it is right now.

But as previously mentioned: should not have happened without any information. This is scary and damages this techs reputation.

Your mobile is not sending your location to the police right now.

 

[water_wendi]

i dont have a problem with this.

 

[n0razi]

Its gonna happen either way, resistance is futile.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I watched a Radiolab episode on this and I instantly thought, that sounds fucking great. Do it.

 

[Chittagong]

Awesome system, London could use one to catch the hoodie assholes who run on bmx bikes and grab people's iPhones

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Problem is that there's no privacy. If they know where you live, what car you drive, they can track your every move. Imagine the implications for a minute of every person being trackable in real time, crime committed or not.

"They" can already do this with the multitude of devices you use and carry on a day to day basis.

We literally carry around tracking devices every second of every day now.

 

[The Albatross]

Screen shot of the system:

I think this does maybe a better job explaining how it works.

This is pretty damn impressive, even if the UI looks hilarious.

In a transparent system or at war, I don't have a problem with this. But, when the system isn't transparent such as this case, I'm hesitant towards 4th amendment rights being abused.

That it's funded by a private "donor" and that the funding and appropriation of it didn't have to be disclosed because of that gives me reason to pause.

"They" can already do this with the multitude of devices you use and carry on a day to day basis.

We literally carry around tracking devices every second of every day now.

It's reasonable to assume that the "They" that the person you quoted is talking about the police, and the police don't have legal access to my private location information without a warrant or subpoena. I'm a data freak and love using data to improve my life in small ways, so I happily provide my location data to Google because I'm confident that the benefit that I get from it outweighs their ability to market to me.

That information is only legally available to the police should they get a warrant, should I turn it over voluntarily, or should they subpoena Google for the information. I'm comfortable with this, based on the benefit that I get from my location-aware tracking device.

I await faulty hard drive excuses just coinciding with every time the police batter fuck out of someone or shoot someone in the back... If we had some kinf of unbiased robot law enforcement overlord running this I'd be ok with it, something incorruptible. Sadly humans are anything but. We can already piece together highly detailed information on a person or place from random nuggets of seemingly innocuous data, so you can just imagine adding this into the mix. In effect this could help track a person even if they leave their phone and technology behind. Just find the last point at which someone was with their phone and you can possibly track them afterwards.

At the end of the day this is a shitload of data to sift through and for what? It's highly intrusive and only catches things after the fact so in terms of prevention it's useless. Will be nice to know the names of the people who suicide bombed themselves bit it won't stop the act.

I think that's shortsighted. If somebody is brazenly robbing 3 stores in Baltimore county, I think it's a fair assessment that they have likely robbed before, will likely rob again, and are not "one and done." Likewise, in military scenarios, this doesn't prevent the IED from being planted, but as the article in the OP says, it can be used to track who planted it, when, where they got it, where they're staying, and give information, and perhaps prevent the next one or give information tht can prevent them down the line.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I await faulty hard drive excuses just coinciding with every time the police batter fuck out of someone or shoot someone in the back... If we had some kinf of unbiased robot law enforcement overlord running this I'd be ok with it, something incorruptible. Sadly humans are anything but. We can already piece together highly detailed information on a person or place from random nuggets of seemingly innocuous data, so you can just imagine adding this into the mix. In effect this could help track a person even if they leave their phone and technology behind. Just find the last point at which someone was with their phone and you can possibly track them afterwards.

At the end of the day this is a shitload of data to sift through and for what? It's highly intrusive and only catches things after the fact so in terms of prevention it's useless. Will be nice to know the names of the people who suicide bombed themselves bit it won't stop the act.

I don't really see the link between this and police brutality. If they can't see the difference between a civilian and a soldier in Iraq, they also can't see the difference between people in the US with it. And it then certainly couldn't tell if a police officer shoots someone out of self protection or not.

It's intrusive for sure without proper oversight. But if it can be used to solve a lot of crime, maybe it is worth it. If someone robs a store, gets in a car and can then be followed home, that is a win. If a rape happens, they can rewind and track the perpetrator doing it back home. If someone kidnaps someone, they can be tracked even if you don't know who the kidnapper is. That sort of stuff can certainly save lives.

Although I wonder how easy it is to fool these systems if you just stay on foot. Walk into a subway and get off somewhere else and you're gone. Walk into a store, walk out with a group a few minutes later, etc. Seems mostly useful for tracking cars.

 

[DpadD]

So...

Dystopia is pretty much inevitable isn't it?

:/

 

[Sulik2]

There should not a person in the country who doesn't have an issue with the government being able to direct track every person in a city 24 hours a day.

So...

Dystopia is pretty much inevitable isn't it?

:/

Yup, its more a question of whether its going to be a 1984 dystopia from the government vs a corporate run global dystopia.

 

[Exploratory]

Great now anytime I see you the word Baltimore I'm going to think of fucking strippers.

God damn it.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

There should not a person in the country who doesn't have an issue with the government being able to direct track every person in a city 24 hours a day.



Yup, its more a question of whether its going to be a 1984 dystopia from the government vs a corporate run global dystopia.

Yea because 1984 is clearly going to happen where we have zero free thought and no control over our lives.

 

[Quixzlizx]

There should not a person in the country who doesn't have an issue with the government being able to direct track every person in a city 24 hours a day.



Yup, its more a question of whether its going to be a 1984 dystopia from the government vs a corporate run global dystopia.

So what you're saying is I should be rooting for the corporations?

 

[Fiend]

Yea because 1984 is clearly going to happen where we have zero free thought and no control over our lives.

Well, it's already happening in this thread.