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Banned gay parade ends in violence

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I

Instigator

Banned
Oh, those Russians...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm

Banned Moscow gay rally broken up

More than 70 people have been arrested in Moscow after activists tried to hold the city's first gay rights rally, despite a ban on the event.

About 50 gay rights supporters were held, as well as 20 people from religious and nationalist groups opposed to the march.
On Friday, a court upheld a ban on the march imposed by the city authorities who argued it could trigger violence.

Saturday marks 13 years since Russia's decriminalisation of homosexuality.

A number of foreign activists are in Moscow for a forum on gay rights.

About 1,000 riot police were deployed close to Red Square in the heart of the city to stop the rally from taking place and prevent clashes with its opponents.

They moved in when a group of activists tried to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, in a symbolic protest to equate the struggle for gay rights with the struggle against fascism in World War II.

The rally's organiser, Nikolay Alexeyev, was among those arrested.

Eyewitnesses said several foreign gay rights activists were beaten by protesters.

"What happened today unfortunately is representative of the non-respect for human rights in Russia. You can't express your point of view, and you are not protected from extremists," said French activist Sebastien Maria.

Nationalist groups expressed anger at the nature of the action at the tomb.

"We are Russians. We are Orthodox. These soldiers died so we could live like Russians, not so these people could come here and tell us what to do," Andrey, 25, told Reuters news agency.
Both groups moved up one of the main city streets to a square outside the Moscow city government offices, where more arrests followed.

Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov said he had banned the march because he believed homosexuality was not natural and because the event would cause outrage in society - a position supported by many Christian and Muslim groups.

He said that as long as he was mayor he would not allow such events to take place.

Mr Alexeyev said the march would not go ahead as originally planned, but promised a public action nonetheless.
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B-B-But America is supposed to be the most oppressive nation when it comes to gay rights.

Not really, I just thinks its funny when people say america is so backwards because we dont have gay marriage. When in other countries gay people cant even assemble. Guess we aren't as oppressive as some people would like you tho think.
 
Eyewitnesses said several foreign gay rights activists were beaten by protesters.
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bruce3pd.jpg
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
B-B-But America is supposed to be the most oppressive nation when it comes to gay rights.

Not really, I just thinks its funny when people say america is so backwards because we dont have gay marriage. When in other countries gay people cant even assemble. Guess we aren't as oppressive as some people would like you tho think.
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Well, at least, we're not as bad as Russia. Is that what you're getting at? You can also use that excuse with Iraq compared to Chechnya.
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
B-B-But America is supposed to be the most oppressive nation when it comes to gay rights.

Not really, I just thinks its funny when people say america is so backwards because we dont have gay marriage. When in other countries gay people cant even assemble. Guess we aren't as oppressive as some people would like you tho think.
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Better is not good enough.
 
I think FOC is just saying he's tired of people constantly complaining about the US' policies towards gays as if they're utterly terrible, while ignoring the rest of the world. Many people are always quick to blame the US or point out where we're worse than the rest of the world, but ignore areas where we trump the rest of the world.

Am I on point FOC?
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
why
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Tu put it bluntly: Russia has always been a backward nation. Might as well use Saudi Arabia or Burma too. I'm sure America fares better than them in many respect.

It also conveniently forgets how America fares versus other Western nations or the ideals of liberty and freedom the country often likes to be associated itself with.
 
PhoenixDark said:
I think FOC is just saying he's tired of people constantly complaining about the US' policies towards gays as if they're utterly terrible, while ignoring the rest of the world. Many people are always quick to blame the US or point out where we're worse than the rest of the world, but ignore areas where we trump the rest of the world.

Am I on point FOC?
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Yes exactly, I suck at making sentences.
 
Ugh, yea because we all know the gay Russians are dying to come over to the US and not say Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc.
 
Instigator said:
Or Iraqi civilians slaughtered by US Marines.

Two can play at this game and it's going to lead you nowhere.
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Play the game of non-sequitur? Sounds like something Hitler would do.



Purplemonkeydishwasher.
 
winter said:
Ugh, yea because we all know the gay Russians are dying to come over to the US and not say Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc.
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Why wouldn't gay Russians want to move to Massachusetts?
 
APF said:
Play the game of non-sequitur? Sounds like something Hitler would do.



Purplemonkeydishwasher.
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The topic was ultimately about a gay parade in Russia. The game started with the first reply this topic got. :)
 
Instigator said:
The topic was ultimately about a gay parade in Russia. The game started with the first reply this topic got. :)
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What does George Galloway have to do with this?

Is a discussion comparing intolerance of homosexuality really so far off-topic for this thread? No.

Maybe because Scandinavia is closer and gay rights in Massachussets are far from secure? Just a guess.
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Marriage rights in MA aren't going anywhere, and although I have no Earthly idea what the acutal stats are, I'll go out on a limb and suggest far more people immigrate to the US from Russia.
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
Yes exactly, I suck at making sentences.
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No, I think you were pretty clear from the beginning. Any confusion that looks like it might have occurred is just people with other agendas being disingenuous.
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
Not really, I just thinks its funny when people say america is so backwards because we dont have gay marriage. When in other countries gay people cant even assemble. Guess we aren't as oppressive as some people would like you tho think.
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:lol :lol :lol
I clicked on this thread, and thought, "I wonder how many posts in it will take for someone to say see the U.S. isn't so bad for gay people!"

GAF's neo-cons never fail to disappoint :D Thanks FlameOfCAllandor and a special lifetime achievement award to APF!
 
Mercury Fred said:
:lol :lol :lol
I clicked on this thread, and thought, "I wonder how many posts in it will take for someone to say see the U.S. isn't so bad for gay people!

GAF's neo-cons never fail to disappoint :D
Click to expand...

I am not a neo-con. I'm not even a conservative. Heck, I am watching a clip from Crooks and Liars at this very moment.
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
I am not a neo-con. I'm not even a conservative. Heck, I am watching a clip from Crooks and Liars at this very moment.
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Sure you are. Walks like, talks like, etc. Go ahead. Embrace your true self.
 
Mercury Fred said:
:lol :lol :lol
I clicked on this thread, and thought, "I wonder how many posts in it will take for someone to say see the U.S. isn't so bad for gay people!"

GAF's neo-cons never fail to disappoint :D Thanks FlameOfCAllandor and a special lifetime achievement award to APF!
Click to expand...
Neocons use logic and facts to back up their arguments, while the loony left resorts to logical fallacies, demagoguery and name-calling to badger their opponents into silence.
 
APF said:
What does George Galloway have to do with this?

Is a discussion comparing intolerance of homosexuality really so far off-topic for this thread? No.


Marriage rights in MA aren't going anywhere, and although I have no Earthly idea what the acutal stats are, I'll go out on a limb and suggest far more people immigrate to the US from Russia.
Click to expand...

It's not a discussion about intolerance, it's about lowering the bar when judging the US versus the world, a reaction to other topics where the US is bashed. FOC made it clear from the get-go. And yes, it was off-topic. Nowhere was the US mentionned in the article.
 
APF said:
Neocons use logic and facts to back up their arguments, while the loony left resorts to logical fallacies, demagoguery and name-calling to badger their opponents into silence.
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Irony?
 
Instigator said:
It's not a discussion about intolerance
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It's a discussion comparing degrees of intolerance.

Y2Kevbug11 said:
Irony?
Click to expand...
Mercury Fred said:
This part is my favorite.
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Again, I at least am using facts and logic, while neither of you provide either. At least Instigator is making a coherent counterargument, but that makes sense since he has an IQ greater than his age.
 
APF said:
Neocons use logic and facts to back up their arguments, while the loony left resorts to logical fallacies, demagoguery and name-calling to badger their opponents into silence.
Click to expand...
tzone4.jpg
 
pnjtony said:
Interestlingly the Neo-Cons are the most religious.
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Actually, no they're not. Many high-profile Neocons are thought to be closet Atheists, and many rarely discuss their faith--or how their faith connects to their political beliefs--regardless.
 
APF said:
It's a discussion comparing degrees of intolerance.

Again, I at least am using facts and logic, while neither of you provide either. At least Instigator is making a coherent counterargument, but that makes sense since he has an IQ greater than his age.
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Does this discussion involve more than you? Because I'm not seeing anyone else making the same point. It just seemed to me you were riding the FOC wave and took his side.

And aren't you accusing the other side of using insults and name calling? Get those proxies ready quick!
 
APF said:
It's a discussion comparing degrees of intolerance.




Again, I at least am using facts and logic, while neither of you provide either. At least Instigator is making a coherent counterargument, but that makes sense since he has an IQ greater than his age.
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Hey, I didn't make a case in either direction.

You simply said Neocons use facts and logic and then you proceeded to berate the opposition.

...and then you did it again in this post.
 
krypt0nian said:
Yes I would take a poke it the eye over a kick in the nuts, but none of those choices is a good one.
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IMO this is unnecessary hyperbole; would you consider it a "poke in the eye" or a bad choice to live in NYC or SF rather than in Boston, just because of the differential in marriage rights? Literally all of my friends faced with that decision have made the opposite choices.


Y2Kevbug11 said:
You simply said Neocons use facts and logic and then you proceeded to berate the opposition.

...and then you did it again in this post.
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Here you commit a lie of omission by cherry-picking my replying in kind after I made logic-based after logic-based comments throughout this thread.
 
APF said:
IMO this is unnecessary hyperbole; would you consider it a "poke in the eye" to live in NYC or SF rather than in Boston, just because of the differential in marriage rights? Literally all of my friends faced with that decision have made the opposite choices.
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are you insane or just playing stupid? The discussion was about the USA being better than Russia. That we even have to have it shows how fucked up this country is in regards to freedoms for the GLBT community. But you and FOC seem to think that by comparing the US to MORE fucked up countries, you are proving something.

My responce still remains, it is not good enough. Nothing I've posted is hyperbole. In both Russia and the US, gays are treated as second class citizens. And that is all that needs to be said.
 
FlameOfCallandor said:
why
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because they are more backwards than America. Which is really saying something with regards to gay rights.
 
APF said:
Here you commit a lie of omission by cherry-picking my replying in kind after I made logic-based after logic-based comments throughout this thread.
Click to expand...

You are being remarkably disingenuous. Whatever. Enjoy your delusions.

You made your factual argument and then you went on to deride and berate the same people you said resorted to those tactics. Be proud you were so able to rise above lowering the level of discourse.
 
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