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Batman set us up the box office bomb...
- Thread starter Willco
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These comparisons to previous Batman films are stupid. The industry has changed in many, many ways since those with the multiplex culture, home video options, decreasing attendance, etc. What matters is the following:
Batman Begins has the third highest opening weekend gross of the year.
Batman Begins is already the 13th highest grossing film of the year, and should move to 8th before the next weekend begins.
Batman Begins has broken the major IMAX records.
Fact is, Batman Begins is a success in the modern box office climate. It's not a breakout phenomenon but it's still big. Fucking deal with it.
Batman Begins has the third highest opening weekend gross of the year.
Batman Begins is already the 13th highest grossing film of the year, and should move to 8th before the next weekend begins.
Batman Begins has broken the major IMAX records.
Fact is, Batman Begins is a success in the modern box office climate. It's not a breakout phenomenon but it's still big. Fucking deal with it.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Manders said:
who gives a shit. batman begins is a better MOVIE than any of the previous batmans. titanic broke box office records.. but would you rather sit through that than watch eternal sunshine of the spotless mind?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Dan said:
yeah. For all the "bomb" talk, Begins still has a chance to finish as one of the top 4 or 5 moneymakers of the year. Not bad in a summer featuring a Star Wars movie and a Cruise/Spielberg flick.
duckroll said:
In the novelization, Ra's Al Ghul has several journal entries, stating how old he is and how he is unable to have a male heir due to chromosome damaged caused from too many "chemical baths". Later, he goes on about his daughter Talia, who lives in Switzerland. When he meets Bruce Wayne, he is giddy, because he sees someone who is incredibly raw, but with a lot of potential to mold into the male heir he never had.
You learn that before the last trial Bruce faces as a member of the League of Shadows, Ra's hopes Bruce will pass with flying colors, so he can introduce Bruce to Talia and have a blood male offspring.
I highly recommend the novelization. It's a good adaptation of the movie and written by Denny O'Neill to boot, and it fills in the blanks between the scenes in the movies. There are several scenes, like Bruce breaking into a museum to steal secret information on the League of Shadows and Ra's, that are obviously not in the movie and are supposed to take place between some of the time elapsed scenes.
Shaheed79 said:
Odd, I loved Gotham in this movie. The Chicago mixed with the city they used for the slums or "narrows" was fantastic! I really liked they way they were seperated and the look of the claustrophobic slums. The dirty streets, the dark alleyways... It all just worked so damn well imo. Also, the Wayne tower, the trains.. Blows Burton's gotham away, which is kept very vague and never really explored.
J2 Cool said:
I really like Nolan's Gotham. It's such a coherent and defined city, but incredibly diverse and gritty. I feel like you could go there and find everything with a map, whereas Burton's Gotham seems like the movie Cube, when ever you turn you back, it changes so it never looks the same.
shpankey
not an idiot
There's more. I caught some stuff on the second showing.Willco said:
Ra even says to Batman, after the log of fire dropped on him... "you left me for dead in my house of fire, now we're even". The only thing is, he didn't leave Liam Neeson for dead, he left the Asian character for dead in a house of fire. The movie even makes sure you know that Liam Neeson will know he wasn't left for dead when Bruce Wayne takes him to the humble peon and the peon replies "I will tell him you saved his life".
Also notice that the director seemed to draw another parallel between them (Asian Ra and Bruce Wayne) by having both of them have fall on them a burning log, and pinned them under it.
Furthermore, It seems the director left us a clue to perhaps understand that Ra really was the Asian character when he died in his temple, and then his soul transferred to Liam Neeson, who then becomes Ra. Why would I say this? Consider this... they never show why Liam Neeson was all a sudden passed out on the floor at the Temple. Why is he unconscious after Bruce fights the Asian Ra? Notice this is after Ra died under the log of fire. Could it be that Ra had taken over Liam Neeson's body?
You may think that Liam Neeson just had an accident in the fire right? Well, it seems the director thought of that too and left you another clue throughout the movie to explain that away. Notice multiple times in the movie Liam Neeson makes a point about be completely aware of his surroundings. When the ninjas are hiding in the rafters, in the fight on the ice, when he has the log fall on Wayne, in the train, etc. Could it be that they wanted you to know that Liam Neeson wouldn't just fall accident to his surroundings in the fire just by watching a fight?
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
Willco said:
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll have to check it out.
shpankey said:
Nah, they make it clear that Ducard was Ra's the entire time. All Ducard meant was that he left the decoy Ra's for dead, and since Bruce thought he was the REAL Ra's at the time, it was like leaving him for dead.
As if I shot someone because I thought it was you. You'd probably be pissed.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
I thought the quote was something like "you left me for dead and burned my house to the ground" or something to that effect.
Another way to look at it, if I misheard the quote, is that Ra's is just a name given to the leader of the league of shadows. If the Asian dude was Ra's before, he was killed and thus the second in command became ras. He makes a quip at Wayne's party about Ra's being immortal or something to that effect, and having somebody that lives forever obviously wouldn't make sense in a world that's for the most part grounded in reality. So I kindof figured either he was Ra's all along, or that Ra's is just a name for the head of the league of shadows.
Another way to look at it, if I misheard the quote, is that Ra's is just a name given to the leader of the league of shadows. If the Asian dude was Ra's before, he was killed and thus the second in command became ras. He makes a quip at Wayne's party about Ra's being immortal or something to that effect, and having somebody that lives forever obviously wouldn't make sense in a world that's for the most part grounded in reality. So I kindof figured either he was Ra's all along, or that Ra's is just a name for the head of the league of shadows.
shpankey
not an idiot
Well, guess that makes sense. Just that quote struck me and my daughter as odd and maybe caused us to look into things too much. 
Ya'll know how it is. Idle minds wander and shit. :lol
I'm just infatuated with the movie right now. Thinking too much about it. My wife said I am like Tom Cruise on Oprah about it. Or worse, Dane Cook doing Tom Cruise on Oprah. :lol Haha.
Ya'll know how it is. Idle minds wander and shit. :lolI'm just infatuated with the movie right now. Thinking too much about it. My wife said I am like Tom Cruise on Oprah about it. Or worse, Dane Cook doing Tom Cruise on Oprah. :lol Haha.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
shpankey said:Well, guess that makes sense. Just that quote struck me and my daughter as odd and maybe caused us to look into things too much.
I'm just infatuated with the movie right now. Thinking too much about it. My wife said I am like Tom Cruise on Oprah about it. :lol Haha.
Oh beleive me, I've been the same way since I saw it saturday night. My friends are probably getting sick of hearing me rave about it and asking if they want to go see it with me (again). It kills me that the closest IMAX theater playing the movie is 4 hours away. Absolutely kills me. I may watch it while I'm up in the "local"(hour away) mall tommorow. They have a much better set-up than the theater I saw it in. Only problem is I'd be going alone (I hate doing that).
Damn I hope this stays in theaters for awhile, as I'll definitely go see it several times. I havent been this enamored with a movie since atleast the 1st Matrix...maybe ever.
Ra did transfer his soul. I don't think it will ever be explain at all because it would be pointless to explain all the little details in the movie and probably the hardcore fans will be happy that they are the few who know the true answer of what's really going on. i can't remember but i think in the comics it is mention that Ra is able to transfer his soul and that he had done it a couple of times.
Fifty said:
:lol
I mean, if you're the least bit confused, and you really shouldn't be (although I can understand how some think it's just a title), I pretty much cleared it up for everything. And the novelization, as well as the behind-the-scenes material, makes it pretty clear that not only Ducard was the true Ra's, but that he's probably not dead.
And if Warner Bros. gave Denny O'Neill the go ahead to write in Talia, chances are that's an avenue they might pursue at some point.
Manders said:
:lol Are you fucking kidding me? Look at the tension in the scene with Bruce, Ra's and the ninjas at League's HQ. Look at the first scene where Batman makes his presence known. Look at the chase scene. These all raped the living fuck out of anything in the Burton movies. WTF was so memorable about the action scenes in those movies? A rope spitting out the side of a car onto a lampost? A guy twirling his knives for 30 seconds? :lol Bitch please.
The negatives with the scenes in Begins is how some of them were shot. Conceptually speaking, they murder the Burton efforts. And that's just the way it is.
duckroll said:
Let's not forget that he didn't want to watch Batman Begins right away in order to avoid the crowds, while catching SW Episode 3 in it's first few days of release. :lol Dude should join the Young Republicans...
karasu said:
Hey if you want Batman to kill, then kill...but do it logically. Don't have him laying waste to thugs all over the place, then telling Catwoman not to kill the guy that threw her ass out a window to fall 30 storeys, because "we're the same." It's laughable bullshit.
Ra's does not and did not transfer his soul. He stays alive with his Lazarus pits (though we don't know what happened I believe since Batman sealed them all up).
As for the boxoffice,. no this movie won't be breaking any records, but pending a slimmer drop next week and survival in the face of WOTW, it should be very successful (i.e. make way more back than it cost to make). That is all that really matters because that is all it will take for Warner to greenlight another movie by the same team. If this movie ends up making $150-200M and you think that is cause for warner to shake things up and bring in new producers and directors, you don't understand how movies are made. A movie doesn't make three to four times it's opening weekend in lifetime domestic, and over $500M worldwide (potentially), and get things shaken up out of fear for the franchise.
Watanabe was never Ra's. NEVER. You guys who are insisting he was are missing the entire subtlety of the movie. This was a real movie. No mysticism, no magic, no even real super powers. Everything in the movie was real, from the armor, to Bruce's abilities, to Scarecrow and his nerve gas. and among all of this realness, you are letting a couple of generalized and theatrical words like "Ra's is immortal" or something like that to shake this realness into soul transfer stuff. even moreso, the line (paraphrased) "Ra's is immortal" was spoken by the guy who explained how theatrics and being larger than life itself were important to be a legend.... I am really floored that you guys are missing it. Ducard was always Ra's. Watanabe was a decoy, someone to rule without Ra's ever being in any real danger. And when Ducard said Bruce left him in his house of fire to die, he meant that Bruce knowingly left Ra's and took it as a personal insult. I used this analogy in another thread. If I told you guys that guy over there was borghe and you shot him, I would be pretty fucking pissed. No you didn't physically shoot at me, but you shot at the guy you thought was me, and I'm probably going to take it personally. Same thing here. Bruce decided to bring about Ra's death and not save him. Even though it really was just a decoy, the real Ra's (Neeson) took it personally as an attack against him.
As for the boxoffice,. no this movie won't be breaking any records, but pending a slimmer drop next week and survival in the face of WOTW, it should be very successful (i.e. make way more back than it cost to make). That is all that really matters because that is all it will take for Warner to greenlight another movie by the same team. If this movie ends up making $150-200M and you think that is cause for warner to shake things up and bring in new producers and directors, you don't understand how movies are made. A movie doesn't make three to four times it's opening weekend in lifetime domestic, and over $500M worldwide (potentially), and get things shaken up out of fear for the franchise.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I loved it. Way better than the Burton movies, which I have mixed feelings about (Batman was a sloppy movie with good bits, Returns is a camp masterpiece and the better of the two by a mile, but not very Batman-y.)
Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams are probably pretty happy.
Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams are probably pretty happy.
The "immortality" of Ra's goes along with the whole ninja ideas in the movie of tricking your enemy into thinking you're more powerful than you really are. Nothing mystical about it. The dialogue between Bruce and Ra's at his birthday party spells it out for your even.
at this rate making $200M is definitely still possible. That would be 300% it's first weekend gross.
as for legs, that would technically mean it has better legs than spider-man (spiderman was less than 300%, batman will actually be more if it hits $200M)
We'll see after this weekend though. If it falls less than 50% it will be a success.. If it falls less than 40%, it will be relatively huge.
If it falls more than 50%, well, that wouldn't be a promising sign.
as for legs, that would technically mean it has better legs than spider-man (spiderman was less than 300%, batman will actually be more if it hits $200M)
We'll see after this weekend though. If it falls less than 50% it will be a success.. If it falls less than 40%, it will be relatively huge.
If it falls more than 50%, well, that wouldn't be a promising sign.
I saw this movie last night and it's the best movie I've seen in a long while, probably the best I'ves seen since the return of the king. I wish there was more advertising for this because I've only seen like a couple of commercials for this before the movie came out and haven't seen any since.
levious said:
In the context of just this movie? Well...maybe.... in the context of the comic character? No. In the end they didn't touch Ra's Lazarus Pit stuff at all, preferring to kept this one grounded more in "real life" per se, and that was fine.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Alucard said:
I've done my part. I've seen it three times. I plan to take my parents next weekend.
LakeEarth said:
Well, there were like 15 people in the theatre, but indeed, every little bit helps.
Fantastic, fantastic film...I really hope that the critic backlash against Bewitched and the general non-effect of Land of the Dead allow for Batman to become the movie of choice this weekend.
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