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[Bleepey]

I think the biggest mistake for me is divulging the distance between Gotham and Metropolis.

*Stands on Metropolis building*

Lol there's that Bat signal in the sky again across the river!

Just SO many idiotic implications that I can't even list.

Like what?

I was paying attention, I just rewatched the scene. She's successfully holding Doomsday back for the moment with her lasso and Superman just blows right past her. Why not stop, say "Here, let me hold that for you and you go poke him with this?" Heavy-handed Jesus metaphors, that's why.

Maybe there isn't much comparison to draw between the two movies, but one thing that I felt Snyder actually lessened in his alteration of watchmen from making it a giant squid and instead putting in Doctor Manhattan's destruction orbs is that it removed the human carnage.

In the comic, the destruction of new york was characterized by this



But in the movie, it's just rubble. The human bodies were atomized by the blast. There are no corpses anywhere when Silk Spectre and Manhatten investigate New York.

And similarly, the destruction of Metropolis is just ruined buildings. You see very few people actually injured.

I think it's partially just a rating issue, that you can't show so many dead bodies or that level of violence, but it might also be that Snyder likes to visualize ruination as not the death of people but the destruction as property.



I can promise you that I cannot make you dumber than you are already now.

"HEY LADY! Yes you miles away from me!!!!!! I just met you so I have no idea how great your strengths and limitations are. However, I see you're using this magical lasso which I have no idea as to how to use, but do you mind no longer holding this monster you've bound tight with your lasso so that I can hopefully be able to use your lasso which I have no training in and you can risk life and limb to spear him. All you have to do is let him free so that you can run towards me to take the spear so that I can fly towards Doomsday and jury rig your magic lasso at a moment' notice . Be careful though he protrudes spikes, don't ask how I know this since they haven't presented themselve yet in the movie, one of my super powers is to see in the future".

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232613823&postcount=529

 

[AAK]

As someone who found enjoyment in Transformers 2, I was extremely tuned out for almost the entirety of BvS. It's easily the worst movie I watched in the last 8 years.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Hey Bleepy, thanks for linking back to a post next to one of mine I can re-use in this thread!

I like the movie on balance, with caveats, but I can answer why I haven't. It's because that's the part of the movie that I don't like as much. The underlying themes of the movie seem to be-- powerful people harm innocent people, even when they don't mean to, and other powerful people oppose them. It's no accident that both of Superman's antagonists are billionaires, and that they are both wrong-headed in opposing him, and that the government is portrayed as ineffectual. But also, the billionaires are ultimately successful in stopping Superman. Even after Batman changes his mind, and even though Luthor loses everything, they both basically get what they wanted at the start of the movie-- no more Superman.

But I find this all somewhat facile and overly bleak. The DCEU seems to be a horrible place. Thousands die. Everyone is miserable. Crime and misery reign. Figures who wish to do good are killed (the Senator, Superman himself). Metatextually, Superman's most upbeat ally is recast as a CIA spook and then shot in the head.

*This* is the criticism I wish we usually had about this movie, not "Martha" or "CGI troll" or "I don't understand the plot." Because that other stuff either worked for me, or was superficial. But my issue is with a world where Superman doesn't enjoy doing good because the world is so bleak, and where the people who succeed are the cynics, even if one has a late-hour change of heart.

If it weren't for the bleakness, I think this movie would have been received a lot better.

The DCEU is pretty miserable overall. And frankly, that's not a great fit for the character archtypes except Batman, who usually works in contrast to the rest of DC's heroes..

Wonder Woman is set in the past, so we won't really see a different take on the modern world probably. Maybe Flash will show a world that's a bit brighter.

 

[Kurdel]

I am just glad this title took away the "worst movie ever" hyperbole train from Prometheus.

 

[Bleepey]

Fun analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuk8agoJu4I

 

[ElfArmy177]

Worst Batman movie, best Superman movie

 

[DigitalRicket]

I find it a tragedy that we were robbed of one of the best interpretations of Alfred by the wonderful Jeremy Irons by having him in that movie. Dude was seriously the best thing about it with the exception of Wonder Woman. The rest was garbage, and I still remember one of my friends who isn't into comic book lore and stuff standing up after the credits rolled and looking over to the rest of us and asking as if they needed confirmation, "that wasn't really good... right?" We all just nodded and were like, yep....

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232613823&postcount=529

Fun analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuk8agoJu4I

Thank you for these lol. Solid video, I love the parallel between a broken Batman and the US with its negative perception of immigrants. You know what that helps display? Batman's M O T I V E S. You know, motives that many, many, many people criticized BvS for "lacking."

I've given up on these discussions and hoping for rational discourse. The vibes are negative right now but I don't think that'll always be the case. I hope more people will come around after some time.

 

[Camwi]

I enjoyed it as well. After hearing how bad it was, I was surprised.

Suicide Squad, on the other hand, is pure garbage.

 

[PleaseDontBanMe]

It's not a bad movie at all. My only complaint after immediately finishing it was that it wasn't better than Man of Steel....(which I loved)

anyone who tells you it's a bad movie has never seen Batman & Robin (1997) or any Madea film.

 

[DigitalRicket]

It's not a bad movie at all. My only complaint after immediately finishing it was that it wasn't better than Man of Steel....(which I loved)

anyone who tells you it's a bad movie has never seen Batman & Robin (1997) or any Madea film.

I actually just watched Batman & Robin last night and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it this far removed. Some of the camera shots and the way how things are set up are practically reinterpretations of the 1960's TV show. While Schumacher's vision for those movies were maybe a tad bit too eccentric and flamboyant the movies themselves are not bad considering that Batman was originally that cheesy to begin with all those years ago.

 

[CaviarMeths]

The theatrical version was such garbage that I couldn't believe what I was watching. And that's after going to see Man of Steel twice and buying the bluray. I like that movie.

The Ultimate Cut is better... it fixes a lot of things, but there's a lot in that movie that just can't be fixed without leaving holes. Eisenberg's Lex is just insufferable and the most glaring problem in a hypothetical "perfect" cut of the movie. Also don't see how the climax would work without the infamous MARTHA moment.

And it's just way too long. The theatrical cut had a ton of pointless shit in it, in place of a bunch of straight up missing scenes that the movie required to work on a fundamental level. The UC restores those missing scenes, but leaves you with the ton of pointless shit. Dream sequences, Knightmare, Kryptonian ship subplot, other JL members, Doosmday for christ sakes, none of that needed to be there.

There's a decent 2h-2:15 movie among the rubble.

 

[Htown]

It's not a bad movie at all. My only complaint after immediately finishing it was that it wasn't better than Man of Steel....(which I loved)

anyone who tells you it's a bad movie has never seen Batman & Robin (1997) or any Madea film.

There are more levels of quality than just awesome and terrible. A movie can be bad and still not the worst.

Like, Batman v Superman was bad. It wasn't nearly as bad as Suicide Squad. The fact that BvS is better than Batman & Robin doesn't mean it's a good movie.

 

[HabeeNo]

Fun analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuk8agoJu4I

Really nice video

 

[boiled goose]

Opinions can be wrong.

Tdkr is flawed.

Bvs is garbage filmmaking.
Bad Screenplay.
Bad characters.
Bad direction.
Bad editing.

What's good???

Ps: if you also think mos is good well then, you just have bad taste

 

[Bishop89]

gaf is the worst place with when discussing Comic book movies.

It was entertaining for me and batfleck was amazing, so mission accomplished

 

[Glass Rebel]

Fun analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuk8agoJu4I

"The problem with Batman v Superman is not the film itself but its audience."

 

[JigglesBunny]

The best thing you can say about it is that it's not Suicide Squad.

 

[WAR recon zero]

It's a so so movie

entretaining for me and watching IRL heroes is always cool

Suicide Squad retroactively made this movie worse tho

 

[ArtHands]

It is that bad.

Yah its rather bad. I find it worse than Man of Steel.

But Suicide Squad is rather bad too. I can't decide which one is the worse Superhero movie in the past decade.

 

[CaviarMeths]

Yah its rather bad. I find it worse than Man of Steel.

But Suicide Squad is rather bad too. I can't decide which one is the worse Superhero movie in the past decade.

Batman v Superman is redeemable with another pass in editing.

Suicide Squad is worse than Fan4stic. I mean it.

 

[Sheroking]

It's a bad movie, but there is a lot of hyperbole around how bad.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

I hate this idea that it was "too dark". It's a Batman vs Superman movie, it's the darkest the movies will probably ever get.

I wish we could see the original cut of Suicide Squad. The leaks sound like a completely different movie (before they told the marketing company responsible for the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer to cut the movie).

 

[Screaming Meat]

If it weren't for the bleakness, I think this movie would have been received a lot better.

It wasn't the bleakness that was the main issue, for me at least. It simply doesn't hang together very well. It's paced really poorly, making it a chore to sit through for me.

I felt it was lacking in a lot of tension too. Rather than anticipating Bats and Supes showdown, I just wanted them to get on with it and get it over with. These are two of my favourite characters and it felt so 'meh'.

I look at something like Fistful of Dollars, right, and see Leone building Joe and Ramone facing off with hardly any effort. Even so, the tension and anticipation created across the film is palpable. It baffles me how Snyder could have so totally fucked it up.

 

[Imbarkus]

The theatrical version was such garbage that I couldn't believe what I was watching. And that's after going to see Man of Steel twice and buying the bluray. I like that movie.

The Ultimate Cut is better... it fixes a lot of things, but there's a lot in that movie that just can't be fixed without leaving holes. Eisenberg's Lex is just insufferable and the most glaring problem in a hypothetical "perfect" cut of the movie. Also don't see how the climax would work without the infamous MARTHA moment.

And it's just way too long. The theatrical cut had a ton of pointless shit in it, in place of a bunch of straight up missing scenes that the movie required to work on a fundamental level. The UC restores those missing scenes, but leaves you with the ton of pointless shit. Dream sequences, Knightmare, Kryptonian ship subplot, other JL members, Doosmday for christ sakes, none of that needed to be there.

There's a decent 2h-2:15 movie among the rubble.

Everybody knew it when they saw the second trailer featuring Doomsday.

 

[Preacher]

Decent movie, wasn't even bad when I saw it in theatres. Most of the complaints just seem like nitpicking or a failure to understand events

 

[The real Butters]

Affleck batman is the best batman. That's all we need to know.

 

[Strakt]

Opinions can be wrong.

Tdkr is flawed.

Bvs is garbage filmmaking.
Bad Screenplay.
Bad characters.
Bad direction.
Bad editing.

What's good???

Ps: if you also think mos is good well then, you just have bad taste

You just summed up your entire post with your first statement

 

[boiled goose]

You just summed up your entire post with your first statement

Yes. So now let's discuss each point. Make your case that the directing in bvs is good, because I can easily point to many ways in which it's bad.

 

[cebri.one]

It is much better than civil war.

 

[Bleepey]

Thank you for these lol. Solid video, I love the parallel between a broken Batman and the US with its negative perception of immigrants. You know what that helps display? Batman's M O T I V E S. You know, motives that many, many, many people criticized BvS for "lacking."

I've given up on these discussions and hoping for rational discourse. The vibes are negative right now but I don't think that'll always be the case. I hope more people will come around after some time.

I read an article a while back on how BVS has allegories to the US Muslim experience. I kinda see it.

 

[Imbarkus]

It is much better than civil war.

It's not. It attempts more, and deserves some admiration for it. It looks better. It certainly wound up more memorable and debatable than Civil War. It had more heavy-lifting to do than Civil War did, with less setup to go on than Civil War had.

I like it better than Civil War. But it's not a better movie.

 

[Count Dookkake]

It is much better than civil war.

Yep. Not even the same ballpark.

 

[Strakt]

Yes. So now let's discuss each point. Make your case that the directing in bvs is good, because I can easily point to many ways in which it's bad.

Thats cool, but I'm not going to sit here and discuss all your bullet points and explain why I like the movie. At the end of the day, opinions... are opinions. If you can't see that, then you're just ignorant. Oh btw, I liked man of steel too, you mad?

 

[cr0w]

It is much better than civil war.

Agreed. The only reason I even remember anything that happened in Civil War is because the script was almost a beat-for-beat copy of BvS. I'm convinced they had someone steal a copy of it so that they could reverse engineer it into a Marvel film.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Batman v Superman is redeemable with another pass in editing.

Suicide Squad is worse than Fan4stic. I mean it.

I don't think so. The problems are with how poor the script is in regards to the character and motives.

 

[dark_chris]

The movie was honestly not so bad. It has issues yes, but it's not as bad as people say it is.
My gf and I enjoyed it. One of those that you just turn off your brain and enjoy.

 

[Sephzilla]

Civil War sets up the idea of a super hero versus super hero conflict in a way that actually feels earned by the end.

Batman vs Superman meanwhile is two unlikable assholes fighting in a pointless fight.

 

[Firemind]

Tony and Bucky are likable?

 

[Sephzilla]

Tony and Bucky are likable?

More than Bruce or Clark, at least

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Tony and Bucky are likable?

Way more than Clark and Bruce. The problem is Clark and Bruce might as well be the same person with how dark Snyder went. There's no balance with their personality.

 

[Bleepey]

Agreed. The only reason I even remember anything that happened in Civil War is because the script was almost a beat-for-beat copy of BvS. I'm convinced they had someone steal a copy of it so that they could reverse engineer it into a Marvel film.

Civil war is BVS shot at day, BVS is civil war shot at night. It's funny seeing CW fanboys pretend the movies aren't similar.

Billionaire vs all American boy scout
Inciting Africa incident near the start
Gratuitous cameo by iconic comic book character who'll play bridge builder
Returning general who was promoted to Secretary of State
Protagonists manipulated by resourceful non-powered puppet master

Edit: I don't know how anyone can say batman and Superman fighting has no motives. It's like let's play bullshit reasons or who wasn't paying attention.

Batman sees Superman cause a lot of collateral damage resulting in deaths of employees. Strike 1

Africa Incident. Strike 2.

Capital bombing. Strike 3. Superman's very existence seems to cause violence. Meanwhile Vision says cos Avengers are Superpowered, someone wants to get into a dick measuring contest and CW fanboys say "makes sense".

Superman plays investigative reporter and seems to be the only person who gives two shits about a well-armed fascist roaming the streets whose direct and indirect actions cause death.

They talk it out they don't see eye to eye. One's mum gets kidnapped and tries to reconcile. The other says fuck you prepare to get shanked and they fight it out all whilst being manipulated by Lex

Zemo on the other hand goes for a scavenger hunt for shit he doesn't know. Gets lucky Vision stats at home and Scarlet Witch couldn't contain the bomb. Then manipulates Tony and Steve by fuck knows but Tony has jokes who cares.

 

[Dead]

Agreed. The only reason I even remember anything that happened in Civil War is because the script was almost a beat-for-beat copy of BvS. I'm convinced they had someone steal a copy of it so that they could reverse engineer it into a Marvel film.

Civil War was literally made as a reaction to the announcement of BvS. Russos admitted as much in am interview.

 

[Sephzilla]

Civil War is at least smart enough to end the movie with the actual main event fight of Cap versus Stark. Thank god Civil War didn't end with some 3 on 1 handicap match where Cap, Stark, and Bucky fought Thunderbolt Red Hulk Ross

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Way more than Clark and Bruce. The problem is Clark and Bruce might as well be the same person with how dark Snyder went. There's no balance with their personality.

You can't see the difference between the two? It's very stark!

 

[Rogan]

Civil War is at least smart enough to end the movie with the actual main event fight of Cap versus Stark. Thank god Civil War didn't end with some 3 on 1 handicap match where Cap, Stark, and Bucky fought Thunderbolt Red Hulk Ross

I was hoping for the team-up against the other winter soldiers. But sadly.

 

[Setsuna]

I think the biggest mistake for me is divulging the distance between Gotham and Metropolis.

*Stands on Metropolis building*

Lol there's that Bat signal in the sky again across the river!

Just SO many idiotic implications that I can't even list.

How is that an issue. When that's exactly how it is portrayed in some comics

 

[Bleepey]

Civil War is at least smart enough to end the movie with the actual main event fight of Cap versus Stark. Thank god Civil War didn't end with some 3 on 1 handicap match where Cap, Stark, and Bucky fought Thunderbolt Red Hulk Ross

No just a 2 on 1 fight. But hey, they had a huge fat play fight that when you think about their actions are incongruent with their aims.

Recruiting a 15 year old to fight a team of Super soldiers just to take the other team down in a non-dangerous way..... Yeah sure

If the fight is supposed to be non dangerous, why are cars, incendiary devices, tankers thrown at each other. I thought this was supposed to be non-fatal!

Spider-man most likely didn't sign the Sokovia accords. Tony you hypocrite you. What are you fighting for again?

Cap's argument can be summed up as, I don't think I should be held to account for my actions because fuck you I am Captain America. Safest hands are still our own *****. The classic George Zimmerman defence.

Fun channel

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd283IzleAqe9MTtXEKI4Jovtn7ST1rEj

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Civil war is BVS shot at day, BVS is civil war shot at night. It's funny seeing CW fanboys pretend the movies aren't similar.

Billionaire vs all American boy scout
Inciting Africa incident near the start
Gratuitous cameo by iconic comic book character who'll play bridge builder
Returning general who was promoted to Secretary of State
Protagonists manipulated by resourceful non-powered puppet master

Does anyone really deny the broad strokes similarities? It's the connective tissue in between and execution that people argue over.

 

[Htown]

Civil war is BVS shot at day, BVS is civil war shot at night. It's funny seeing CW fanboys pretend the movies aren't similar.

Billionaire vs all American boy scout
Inciting Africa incident near the start
Gratuitous cameo by iconic comic book character who'll play bridge builder
Returning general who was promoted to Secretary of State
Protagonists manipulated by resourceful non-powered puppet master

I don't think anyone has ever said the movies aren't similar in concept. Where did you hear that? You act like the fact that both movies involve superheroes fighting each other means that anyone who likes one and not the other is being unfair.

One movie executes its premise well and the other does not.