-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Batman v Superman is not that bad...
- Thread starter Resident_UA
- Start date
#CapWasRight
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I have a lot of problems with Civil War, but they are very different problems than I have with BvS.
I liked it a lot less than Age of Ultron, which itself had issues.
I liked it a lot less than Age of Ultron, which itself had issues.
Glass Rebel
Member
If you still think Civil War was about the Sokovia Accords, you went into the movie trying to misunderstand it.
Pretty much
MegaManTrigger
Banned
The bolded is exactly the point that people who argue against others who say they're not similar miss.
So why were they fighting again? Because Cap finds it inconceivable his mind controlled assassin of a friend would kill people like he has a habit of doing?
Yes, I had a couple posters insist the two films had nothing in common. I bailed out of that one quickly as I was unable to convince myself that the guy was arguing such a ridiculous POV in good faith.
In any case, its all hogwash. The discussion about BvS being a poor film always ends with some trying to push the conversation into "Oh yeah!? Well Civil War sucks man!". Its like ooooookay.
DangerMouse
Member
Another fix that I liked was that the extended cut really fixed the courtroom and aftermath scene quite a bit. Not only did Superman actually properly stay behind to help a few people in the wreckage before he felt his presence was a problem and that he should leave, but they also actually addressed the chair indeed being made of lead as to why Superman didn't see it (and more about that guy with beef with Superman and how he too got played by Lex and how fully he got manipulated by Lex and how he didn't know what was in the chair) so that people no longer need to come up with an unofficial reason for why he might have missed it since it was glossed over in the theater version (like all of the responses in the theatrical thread that he must have been lazy, stupid, or too distracted by selfish thoughts to be observing the area).
Though I still would have really liked for him to have gotten to speak first before everything went down there. From the trailers I really thought we were going to get a good speech from him first. Clark stuff in general got cut too much in the theater version.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203194183&postcount=1736
Omg that video literally explains what I felt after watching both films and I even mentioned it here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203194183&postcount=1736
Omg that video literally explains what I felt after watching both films and I even mentioned it here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203194183&postcount=1736
InstigateAndInquire
Member
The bloat aside, I thought the first act of the film was flat out boring. Africa, The White Portuguese, Bruce and Selina v2.0, Wallace Keefe, even The Senate just did nothing.
The Senate could have been a great character moment for Superman to speak up for himself and defend his actions. Instead he frowned again.
The Senate could have been a great character moment for Superman to speak up for himself and defend his actions. Instead he frowned again.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
When does Steve not recognize that his friend was the reason why the Starks were dead? It has nothing to do with finding what Bucky did inconceivable. You'd have to be pretty obtuse to not know that considering the actual reason for the fight is that he was trying to stop Stark from outright killing Bucky [for something that Bucky had absolutely no control over]. Habit is not a good word to use considering that Bucky wasn't even himself when Hydra activated the trigger words that brought out the Winter Soldier persona.
MetalliCabombination
Member
That doesn't happen until the last 15 minutes
He rooted for bucky since the beginning because he thought he couldn't bomb the un despite knowing very well that bucky without supervision was certainly capable of it.
Shutting him down was always in everyone's best interests. As demonstrated once again 5 minutes after he gets captured.
But to stop those 4 sleeping soldiers, info that could very well have been planted into the mind controlled assasin to trap the avengers
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Zemo blew up the United Nations with a Bucky mask. I would have been amused if there had been a plot involved the mask getting glued to his head. 
Civil War was a better plotted and written movie at the time, with a lot less heavy-lifting to do to get going due to previous movies. But people are still talking about BvS and arguing about it in a way they don't for Civil War. BvS was more of a failure than Civil War, but that was partly because it attempted more with its story. Civil War was kind of a shockingly "big issue-free" story. Any serious consideration of Ross' criticism of their destruction was fairly silly when they blame Steve for the crash of their own fleet of murder-heli-carriers, and show their cause to be one-dimensional by rustling up an improbably James Bond bad-guy-style aqua-prison.
And that last leg of Zeno's plan didn't really make much sense, though Luthor's did. But Zeno's motivation made sense, while Luthor's didn't, and that's what matters to movie audiences.
You had to read a Dr. pepper promotional prequel comic to even learn that Luthor had lost a new skyscraper in the Battle of Metropolis from Man of Steel.
Civil War was a better plotted and written movie at the time, with a lot less heavy-lifting to do to get going due to previous movies. But people are still talking about BvS and arguing about it in a way they don't for Civil War. BvS was more of a failure than Civil War, but that was partly because it attempted more with its story. Civil War was kind of a shockingly "big issue-free" story. Any serious consideration of Ross' criticism of their destruction was fairly silly when they blame Steve for the crash of their own fleet of murder-heli-carriers, and show their cause to be one-dimensional by rustling up an improbably James Bond bad-guy-style aqua-prison.
And that last leg of Zeno's plan didn't really make much sense, though Luthor's did. But Zeno's motivation made sense, while Luthor's didn't, and that's what matters to movie audiences.
You had to read a Dr. pepper promotional prequel comic to even learn that Luthor had lost a new skyscraper in the Battle of Metropolis from Man of Steel.
PhantomZone
Member
I enjoyed it but it was still a car crash on film.
There's a reason why I've not bothered to watch it since the UE was released and it's because the film was a dogs breakfast and not worth watching again and again (I could watch the original Superman 10+ times a year).
There's a reason why I've not bothered to watch it since the UE was released and it's because the film was a dogs breakfast and not worth watching again and again (I could watch the original Superman 10+ times a year).
And that last leg of Zeno's plan didn't really make much sense, though Luthor's did. But Zeno's motivation made sense, while Luthor's didn't, and that's what matters to movie audiences.
You had to read a Dr. pepper promotional prequel comic to even learn that Luthor had lost a new skyscraper in the Battle of Metropolis from Man of Steel.
the only reason why people have an issue with Luthor's motivation is because they can't get over the fact that in this universe Superman is an unknown value
Basically Zemo's motivation is a Generic family revenge plot, Meanwhile, Luthor's motivation, is like having a country suddenly appear on earth with enough Nukes to wipe out humanity
Resident_UA
Member
Small update. This got me to re-watch Nolan trilogy (my wife watched them for the first time) and the Dark Knight is as good as I remembered it if not better. Those IMAX scenes really hold up on 4K TV. But Batman Begins looked surprisingly bad on Vudu. It helps that it has cohesive story, but honestly I was somewhat disappointed...
And the Dark Knight Rises still baffles me. How could it have been made by the same person who made the second movie?! Don't get me wrong, the beginning of that movie is fine, but the whole middle can be just cut with nothing missing... Maybe my statement that the Dark Knight Rises is worse that BvS is a bit of exaggeration, but it's still is a HUGE disappointment. Probably the most disappointing movie I've ever seen (because the Dark Knight was so good).
And the Dark Knight Rises still baffles me. How could it have been made by the same person who made the second movie?! Don't get me wrong, the beginning of that movie is fine, but the whole middle can be just cut with nothing missing... Maybe my statement that the Dark Knight Rises is worse that BvS is a bit of exaggeration, but it's still is a HUGE disappointment. Probably the most disappointing movie I've ever seen (because the Dark Knight was so good).
It might be an unfair statement, but I looks at Batman Begins and The Dark Knight as Christopher Nolan auditioning to make Inception. The Dark Knight Rises feels like it was made out of obligation to a studio that wanted a trilogy.
I mean, "You should use your full name - Robin" couldn't have been anything other than a "Fuck this, I'm done".
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I think a lot of people are mixing up Steve "rooting" for Bucky for him trying to clear Bucky's name and show that he was under control, and in the case of the UN bombing, that he was framed. Steve's reasoning to protect Bucky makes sense, especially when Stark and everyone else in the Accords side rushed to conclusion without actually taking a minute to think about why Rogers was sticking up for him.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Is that why he set off the countdown to unleash Doomsday before he even found out how the whole Fight Night thing went? Because he was afraid of unstoppable super-beings nuking humanity? Weird choice, then, to spawn one that seems to actually nuke things when you try to kill it.
Hey I liked the movie but I'm not going to do backflips to explain a character's individual motivations as a cypher for a lot of thematic expressions. Luthor needed and personal motivation and he didn't have it, though up until spawning Doomsday, he had a better plan.
Doomsday was there should Superman beat Batman. He expected to be able to control Doomsday cos he was part of his dna. He was wrong.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Also, the process of creating him drove him crazy(er) so at that point he wasn't even necessarly acting with his original motive.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
cr0w
Old Member
TDK is bolstered by fantastic direction and a once-in-a-lifetime performance from an actor who died before his time. As a superhero/Batman movie, it's a failure in almost every way. Begins is the only thing close to Batman that Nolan made. If you go back and watch it and start trying to make sense of the plot, TDK is a damn mess unless somehow Joker is a clairvoyant with the ability to see the future with 100% accuracy.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The Civil War honest trailer points out how similar these two movies really are. And yet only one movie was panned for the same issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ3VQkK6Upo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ3VQkK6Upo
Inferno313
Banned
Execution is more important than conception.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
The funny thing is that I actually liked Man of Steel. I was just watching my bluray copy of it a few days ago and other than a few missteps the movie is actually quite fun to watch and enjoyable. I can't say the same thing about BvS, it's easily one of the worst superhero movies I think I've ever seen. The whole movie pisses me off with how bad it is, especially since I wanted it to be good so badly. I really hope Justice League can set things straight again.
One was well done. Another wasn't.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Two minutes in. He's already made a false equivalency with Captain America and suggested that shooting the gas tank is in some way less of a 'kill' than shooting him in the head. If that's the frustrating level of discourse available on this, is there any point in watching the rest...?
Not sure if serious
I also thought it was fine
Better than the other DCU movies
Also thought it was better than civil war and avengers 2
BvS is dumb fun entertainment but I find those two painful to watch
Character motivations make even less sense including them completely removing any explanation for why they are having a senate hearing
They left in all the action but cut out half the story/plot
Better than the other DCU movies
Also thought it was better than civil war and avengers 2
BvS is dumb fun entertainment but I find those two painful to watch
Yes, maybe that helped. But I'm unsure what are the differences are
Character motivations make even less sense including them completely removing any explanation for why they are having a senate hearing
They left in all the action but cut out half the story/plot
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
One was done mediocrely, and one was a bit worse than that.
Glass Rebel
Member
Oh, he is.
not giving a click but that's hilarious
bvs is basically unwatchable, civil war is one of the greateat action films made
the amount of care and thought put into each character in CW makes the whole film gel, DC couldn't even make the trilogy compelling
Discotheque
Banned
that's hilarious too.
CaviarMeths
Member
Great, I clicked on this and now a bunch of shitty SHILL CRITICS CONSPIRACY CONFIRMED!!! videos are going to appear in my recommendations.
i just watched a clip in incognito mode
"the problem is not the editing or the directing or that snyder doesnt understand the heroes its the HYPOCRTICAL CRITICS AND MOVIEGOERS" 😂
jobrro
Member
I liked it.
I liked the Ultimate Edition more.
Not that I can't find fault with the film but when I saw the online reactions and critic reactions I thought I was taking crazy pills. I don't love their choice for Lex and some of his scenes are cringey, he should be as good at playing a socialite as Bruce IMO and he comes off as awkward. Also Wonder Woman would have made more sense to use the Kryptonite spear but they had an end game in mind an forewent the logic there. I don't have an issue with the Martha scene.
Around release I think I was mostly frustrated because many people I talked to seemed to not be paying attention to the film. I personally enjoyed the movie didn't have to tell you everything in exposition and repeat it again and again. It let you fill in the blanks based on previous knowledge of these characters.
Maybe I should have posted this in the 'unpopular opinions' thread.
I liked the Ultimate Edition more.
Not that I can't find fault with the film but when I saw the online reactions and critic reactions I thought I was taking crazy pills. I don't love their choice for Lex and some of his scenes are cringey, he should be as good at playing a socialite as Bruce IMO and he comes off as awkward. Also Wonder Woman would have made more sense to use the Kryptonite spear but they had an end game in mind an forewent the logic there. I don't have an issue with the Martha scene.
Around release I think I was mostly frustrated because many people I talked to seemed to not be paying attention to the film. I personally enjoyed the movie didn't have to tell you everything in exposition and repeat it again and again. It let you fill in the blanks based on previous knowledge of these characters.
Maybe I should have posted this in the 'unpopular opinions' thread.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Oh come on. CW isn't even one if the best MCU movies. And not one of the best action movies if the last few years, let alone ever.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, I think CW is alright. Takes a little bit to pick up steam, and it's pretty fun when it starts chugging along. That's about it though for me.
The video was clearly created by what experts refer to as a 'zero-watt bulb'. That it'd be used as evidence as to why people don't like BvS is... well, more damaging than anything.
Yeah. It's incoherent, shut-in ranting at its worst.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
BVS is the worst movie so far in the DCEU think about that.
CaviarMeths
Member
Nah. It's messy, but it's a much better film than Suicide Squad.
BvS is not that bad and is actually better than TDKR? What in the fuck as the world come to? TDKR while being flawed and not as good as its previous two films, is still better than 95% of the superhero movies.
I'm actually surprised that BvS got 27% fresh reviews, it honestly deserves to be closer to Catwoman.
I'm actually surprised that BvS got 27% fresh reviews, it honestly deserves to be closer to Catwoman.
SparksterMeta0
Member
Have to agree here.