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Battlefield 1: No playable female soldiers in multiplayer. Campaign only.

MutFox

Banned
Seems kind of stupid to not include women in multiplayer when they are not going 100% historically accurate and besides women did fight in WW1 even if it was only to a small extent.

Like why not?

What they could do, is see what the percentage of women fought compared to men.
So in MP every now and then, you might respawn as a woman.
(Maybe even keep the percentages depending on country too)

Add colour in there too...

Though hit boxes might be affected,
unless all the women use the male models with female textures.
 
Should be able to pick any colour or gender.
That way people don't feel bad.

shouldn't be able to pick.

should just spawn and be whatever sex/race the game selects.

i still remember how FUCKING CRAZY some people went on the EA forums because they were a Black soldier in BF3
 
shouldn't be able to pick.

should just spawn and be whatever sex/race the game selects.

i still remember how FUCKING CRAZY some people went on the EA forums because they were a Black soldier in BF3
Nope. Having choice is better. This isn't Rust. Worked well in Battlefront. Gave practically every subset of the population representation and let players pick. That's how it should be.
 
shouldn't be able to pick.

should just spawn and be whatever sex/race the game selects.

i still remember how FUCKING CRAZY some people went on the EA forums because they were a Black soldier in BF3

I like to customize my soldier though. I thought CoD had some nice options but now they have some sort of GI Joe set of characters.
 

MutFox

Banned
Customize everything you wear.
Let the game choose what race and gender to spawn you as.

That way they can keep it "Historically Accurate" as they say.
 

Lime

Member
Games are already such a player-driven experience that it's easy to just create justifications / role-playing for yourself if you're faced with something out of the ordinary. Using the excuse of "players won't find it believable" is poor form and goes against the bottom-up player philosophy of multiplayer games, where emergent and 'writing back' behaviors are explicitly in games as a medium.
 
Nope. Having choice is better. This isn't Rust. Worked well in Battlefront. Gave practically every subset of the population representation and let players pick. That's how it should be.

nah, having a choice isn't better.

"this isn't Rust"

this is Battlefield, which has forced the option before with race as i previously pointed out.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Even with all this internet fallout, they'd probably get even more flak for including women in MP.
Yeah, could be a little problematic, considering how much they're hyping how you can bash other players skulls in.

I don't think BF1 MP players care much about mixed gender combat either way. It's probably more of a technical limitation on DICE's end than a political decision.
 
I don't know if this is a worse reason than the Chivalry devs not wanting playable women because they were afraid of online toxic masculinity. But then their next game Mirage Arcane Warfare they have women, so clearly not as big a problem.
 

Hermii

Member
I mean... why?
If you're going to include it in the campaign, with the multi-million dollar budget surely you can afford that. I agree with OP, weird distinction to make.
Maybe there is a mission where you play as British women shaming men into conscripting for the army.
 
I think I find the historical accuracy excuse, when the actual reason is marketing, more insulting than the truth.

The first one seems to just be a defense to give people online to use so they can lay on the tracks for EA.
 

crimilde

Banned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_World_War_I#Notable_individuals

1914: Dorothy Lawrence disguised herself as a man in order to become an English soldier in the First World War
1914 : Maria Bochkareva Russian: Мария Леонтьевна Бочкарева, née Frolkova, nicknamed Yashka, was a Russian woman who fought in World War I and formed the Women's Battalion of Death.
1914 : Flora Sandes, an English woman, joined a St. John Ambulance unit in Serbia and subsequently became an officer in the Serbian army.
1914: British nurse Edith Cavell helped treat injured soldiers, of both sides, in German-occupied Belgium. Executed in 1915 by the Germans for helping British soldiers escape Belgium.
1914: Olena Stepaniv, a Ukrainian officer of Legion of Ukrainian Sich Riflemen. Was the first woman to receive officer rank in the world.
1915: French artist Madame Arno organized a regiment of Parisian women to fight the Germans.
1915: Olga Krasilnikov, a Russian woman, disguised herself as a man and fought in nineteen battles in Poland. She received the Cross of St. George.
1915: Russian woman Natalie Tychmini fought the Austrians at Opatow in World War I, while disguised as a man. She received the Cross of St. George.
1916: Ecaterina Teodoroiu was a Romanian heroine who fought and died in World War I.
1916: Milunka Savić, Serbian war hero,and the most decorated female fighter in the history of warfare, awarded with the French Légion d’Honneur (Legion of Honour) twice, Russian Cross of St. George, English medal of the Most Distinguished Order of St Michael, Serbian Miloš Obilić medal. She is the sole female recipient of the French Croix de Guerre (War Cross) with the palm attribute.
1917: Julia Hunt Catlin Park DePew Taufflieb. First American female to be awarded the Croix de Guerre and the Legion of Honor in the First World War for her efforts in turning her Chateau d'Annel into a front line hospital.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Battalion

Fifteen formations were created in 1917, including the 1st Russian Women's Battalion of Death, a separate unit called the 1st Petrograd Women's Battalion formed a few weeks later in Petrograd, the 2nd Moscow Women's Battalion of Death created in Moscow, and the 3rd Kuban Women's Shock Battalion organized in Ekaterinodar. Four communications detachments were created in Moscow and Petrograd. Seven additional communications units were created in Kiev and Saratov, again employing privately organized women's units already existing in those cities. Additional unsanctioned battalions sprang in cities across Russia. An all-female naval unit was created in Oranienbaum, the 1st Women's Naval Detachment, as part of the Naval Infantry Training Detachment.

Too bad, they could've had something cool with this.
 
Oversaturated color theory-based promotional aesthetic that has absolutely no relation to wars past or contemporary, surviving 25-foot falls, one-in-a-million chance of a Vaudevillian ghost hand giving you your next clip on a reload, colossal shark easter eggs, and physics exploits to allow players to launch tanks hundreds of feet in the air? Done in the name of fun and good gameplay over keeping things historic. If anyone calls them out on it? "I'd rather have fun than it be historically accurate, I don't see the problem."

Noticeable lack of including women in the multiplayer? Done in the name of keeping things historic over fun and good gameplay. If anyone calls them out on it? "I'd rather it be historically accurate than fun, I don't see the problem."

lh1qwby.jpg
 
Oversaturated color theory-based promotional aesthetic that has absolutely no relation to wars past or contemporary, surviving 25-foot falls, one-in-a-million chance of a Vaudevillian ghost hand giving you your next clip on a reload, colossal shark easter eggs, and physics exploits to allow players to launch tanks hundreds of feet in the air? Done in the name of fun and good gameplay over keeping things historic. If anyone calls them out on it? "I'd rather have fun than it be historically accurate, I don't see the problem."

Noticeable lack of including women in the multiplayer? Done in the name of keeping things historic over fun and good gameplay. If anyone calls them out on it? "I'd rather it be historically accurate than fun, I don't see the problem."

lh1qwby.jpg
Yeah, but, like, seeing female soldiers takes you out of the game, you know.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Makes no sense to have them in campaign mode but block them from multiplayer mode. It is very contradictory and please all note that before saying "history".
 

MutFox

Banned
Makes no sense to have them in campaign mode but block them from multiplayer mode. It is very contradictory and please all note that before saying "history".

Most likely has to do with hitboxes.
Though their games aren't big on the competitive scene, so it really shouldn't matter.
 
Most likely has to do with hitboxes.
Though their games aren't big on the competitive scene, so it really shouldn't matter.

Depending on the execution you don't really need to have different hitboxes, though. Something like Gears of War 3 decided that women couldn't be as jacked as Marcus and pals so people almost always picked women players to have smaller hitboxes, but all three of the Halo games that have offered standard "arena" multiplayer as well as a cosmetic male/female toggle (Reach, 4, 5) have no hitbox changes based on gender.
 
Did people make this argument for Hardline or Battlefield 4? Probably but I don't remember, the argument would have carried so much more weight here.

I'm reminded of the Guardian article where Steven Moffat says they "have to lie" when it comes to portraying diversity in history to get it into TV.
 

Alienous

Member
But it looks like Battlefield..............

I'm not sure what you mean.

My point is that in trying to create the WWI feel female soldiers would, outside of exceptional cases, be at odds with that. Considering Battlefront it doesn't seem to be a technological thing. Just that in creating a WWI aesthetic, from weapons, to sounds, to locales, the soldiers also play a role, and the vast, vast majority of them were male.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
What they could do, is see what the percentage of women fought compared to men.
So in MP every now and then, you might respawn as a woman.
(Maybe even keep the percentages depending on country too)

Add colour in there too...
It's really that simple.
 

tariniel

Member
I'm genuinely curious if this issue would change someones mind on purchasing the game at all. I have a hard time imagining the Battlefield fan that would be persuaded one way or the other by the inclusion of a female multiplayer character. Forgive me if this was already discussed.

Is it a case of someone that would not have purchased Battlefield, but now would if there was a female option? For those of you that planned to buy this game, are you now no longer planning to buy it?

Of course adding as many customization options as possible is better for the players, don't get me wrong. Genuinely curious if this would affect sales as publishers/devs only see $, it feels like.
 
Did people make this argument for Hardline or Battlefield 4? Probably but I don't remember, the argument would have carried so much more weight here.

I'm reminded of the Guardian article where Steven Moffat says they "have to lie" when it comes to portraying diversity in history to get it into TV.

I get where he's coming from, but 9 times out of 10 media depicts historic situations with less diversity than what was really the case.
 

Lime

Member
I'm genuinely curious if this issue would change someones mind on purchasing the game at all. I have a hard time imagining the Battlefield fan that would be persuaded one way or the other by the inclusion of a female multiplayer character. Forgive me if this was already discussed.

Is it a case of someone that would not have purchased Battlefield, but now would if there was a female option? For those of you that planned to buy this game, are you now no longer planning to buy it?

Of course adding as many customization options as possible is better for the players, don't get me wrong. Genuinely curious if this would affect sales as publishers/devs only see $, it feels like.

You could rephrase the question: how many people would be opposed to having female question?

Also, It's good to offer up options for people who do care about female characters, as well as more options for people who don't care who they play, and finally making the virtual game spaces less homogeneous and one-sided.
 
I'm not sure what you mean.

My point is that in trying to create the WWI feel female soldiers would, outside of exceptional cases, be at odds with that. Considering Battlefront it doesn't seem to be a technological thing. Just that in creating a WWI aesthetic, from weapons, to sounds, to locales, the soldiers also play a role, and the vast, vast majority of them were male.
These MP matches are just fictional skirmishes anyway. You didn't see any trench warfare, tanks are appearing left and right, and your soldier can quick scope with sniper rifles like an MLG pro. There were female soldier in WW1. Yes, not a lot of them played a significant role in the front line but there are some that did. They existed and you can expand upon it both in single player and MP. They could have added female soldier disguised as male soldiers. It would have been historically accurate.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Aw.

That's actually pretty lame of them either way. Cool that it's in campaign (it's not the first time they've done this either, BF3), but I imagine most people are jumping in for the multiplayer.

And it's totally weird especially after Battlefront and especially since COD keeps the inclusion and diversity within its own multiplayer mode.
 
You're not making a documentary DICE, you're making a fictional video for teenagers. You're even putting women in the campaign. What a terrible excuse.
 

Oersted

Member
I'm not sure what you mean.

My point is that in trying to create the WWI feel female soldiers would, outside of exceptional cases, be at odds with that. Considering Battlefront it doesn't seem to be a technological thing. Just that in creating a WWI aesthetic, from weapons, to sounds, to locales, the soldiers also play a role, and the vast, vast majority of them were male.

We just have to ignore there is a female soldier in Battlefield 1 and there were female soldiers in WWI, right?
 

horkrux

Member
Why can't you make a distinction in what you perceive as 'immersion-breaking' in regard to the setting? Seeing half the Germans or British running around with female skins would surely be more irritating to me than to be able to use weapons that only existed as drafts or having tanks that are way faster than the reallife counterpart. I haven't studied WW1 weapons technology. I know BF1 is inauthentic in that regard, but I sure as hell haven't seen any pictures or films with female troops.
I know that society back then was not even half as progressive as it is now. Why pretend that it was different? Read the wikipedia article on women in WW1 - even the female Russian battalions, probably the only major side to employ women as combatants at all, were disbanded within a year. Even 1/64 players in a round playing with a female skin would be mind-blowingly unrealistic (and wouldn't really work out, considering that the game doesn't know you).

They have a female character as an Arab in the campaign? Well, if they have MP maps of that, why not use them there? Seems appropriate when it's guerilla forces.
 

fernoca

Member
One might expect it to be the opposite, and have female sodiers in multiplayer but not (or really limited) in single player.
 

4Tran

Member
Makes no sense to have them in campaign mode but block them from multiplayer mode. It is very contradictory and please all note that before saying "history".
It's not really having "them" in the campaign. It's just a single woman and the game is doing something with her that wouldn't be congruent with the European theaters. If Dice wanted women in the multiplayer, they would basically have to do everything from scratch because assets for a Bedouin in the Middle East wouldn't translate to a soldier anywhere else.

I get where he's coming from, but 9 times out of 10 media depicts historic situations with less diversity than what was really the case.
That's true, and we really do need more of it. And on that score, Battlefield 1 isn't that bad - not only do we have the Arab Revolt with the Bedouins, and the Harlem Hellfighters, but I recall seeing an Indian soldier fighting for the British.
 

Alienous

Member
These MP matches are just fictional skirmishes anyway. You didn't see any trench warfare, tanks are appearing left and right, and your soldier can quick scope with sniper rifles like an MLG pro. There were female soldier in WW1. Yes, not a lot of them played a significant role in the front line but there are some that did. They existed and you can expand upon it both in single player and MP. They could have added female soldier disguised as male soldiers. It would have been historically accurate.

I'm talking more about a creating a sense of place. The foibles of game design are a different subject. My point is that it's congruent with their approach to other aspects of the game from the perspective of trying to capture the feel of that period of warfare. It seems like a reasonable excuse, considering that Battlefront didn't have the same issue.

We just have to ignore there is a female soldier in Battlefield 1 and there were female soldiers in WWI, right?

No?
 
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