You think slowly dying over weeks/months in agony is a better option?
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Belgium debates legalizing euthanasia for children under 18
- Thread starter Saya
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You think slowly dying over weeks/months in agony is a better option?
So long as there are reasonable controls (and it appears there are) I have no problem with allowing patients -- of any age -- with mortal outcomes and significant pain to skip the unpleasant end stage of their life.
In my experience, the people most against euthanasia have never had the experience of watching a loved one die in agony. It's awful for the patient, and a terrible thing for family members to have to experience. It leaves lasting scars on those who remain and benefits the patient not at all.
In my experience, the people most against euthanasia have never had the experience of watching a loved one die in agony. It's awful for the patient, and a terrible thing for family members to have to experience. It leaves lasting scars on those who remain and benefits the patient not at all.
This is false. Non-terminal cases may apply for euthanasia as well.
SOURCE: http://www.leif.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110&Itemid=53&lang=nl
Like the hat?
Banned
I'm in favor of assisted suicide for anyone that is to the point where it would be the best option.
At least read the quote in depth before responding then...
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Fair enough, like I said I'm not an expert on Belgium's laws. Though I would still assert the majority of assisted suicide laws are for terminal cases only.
Based on the Google translate there it seems non-terminal cases require additional physician opinions and a waiting period.
Its possible, but according to that website you will get examined by another doctor, so there are more restrictions.
And people mind you, no doctor in their right mind would consent if it was some minor disease. Doctors are people too and they dont want unneccerary deaths.
I'm for this. I also don't view suicide the same way as others though. I think those that are chemically imbalanced, and have been on every medicine available and are still in agony every waking moment of their lives, deserve peace if they can't find it living. As such, I try not to view every suicide as selfish etc. If anything, I would say the living are selfish for wanting them to live. It's easy for us to comment on this, when we aren't having to live in their body and deal with the suffering and agony.
Of course, if someone is just situationally depressed and aren't thinking beyond the moment, I understand why people are judgemental there. To me, this is a no brainer. If you legitimately can't get better, and the suffering is too great, why shouldn't you be able to decide to pull the plug early vs. having to die a slow and painful death.
Of course, if someone is just situationally depressed and aren't thinking beyond the moment, I understand why people are judgemental there. To me, this is a no brainer. If you legitimately can't get better, and the suffering is too great, why shouldn't you be able to decide to pull the plug early vs. having to die a slow and painful death.
That's good. The posts in the thread led me to believe that a childhood euthanasia law would primarily affect disabled people.
In what cases can people without terminal diseases ask to be killed?
It's more of a 'spirit of the law vs letter of the law' thing. It's obvious euthanasia applies for terminal cases, but rendering that prerequisity into the legal text would require a unified definition of a terminal case, which is impossible to set up beforehand.
Therefore the law refers to the doctors of the case.
The article in the OP references two different stories. One of them is the story of Nathan, who decided to seek euthanasia after undergoing a sex change operation that he felt turned him into a monster. The article also refers to Marc and Eddy Verbessem, two deaf, identical twins who sought euthanasia after learning that they had a genetic disease that was turning them both blind. It's not just people who are going to die in a couple of years anyways.
A third doctor would need to agree with the assessments, and there has to be at least one month between the written request for euthanasia and the actual procedure.
AbsolutBro
Member
This, I think, is the factor that many are missing. We are not talking about people who might die from their illness. We are talking about people who WILL die from it, but not before suffering who knows how much agony and distress. Forcing people who are ready to die, and are GOING to die, to suffer is plainly abominable and inhumane.
Is it possible for parents to request the euthanasia of a disabled child who cannot consent to their own death?
The current law does not allow euthanasia for minors without adult status.
Kano on the Phone
Member
I hope we see something similar to this in America soon (though I doubt it). We are so arcane as far as how we handle death.
Could a new law allow any minor to be killed, though?
You can't be serious? The bed-ridden infirmed can? Really?
Well not any minor, they have to be chronically ill, in pain, terminal and without a good other solution.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Alright well, I'm gonna have trouble to keep defending this specific law. I find this stuff troubling to say the least. Should have educated myself more on Belgium specifically.
Generally I am very strongly in favor of assisted suicide, but I don't think we should be straying into these kinds of realms.
Count Dookkake
Member
Any person willing to get laid can take care of it themselves.
I don't know. I would need to see the new proposed law.
thesoapster
Member
What particularly troubles you about Nathan's case? He met all the criteria listed by the law, and after reading his interview (taken one day before the euthanasia) I felt he had the right to make this decision for himself.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Why? You feel that living without hope or joy is not physical pain and therefore people shouldn't be allowed to die if they want to?
What about a person paralyzed from the neck down?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I'm not saying I don't think that personally, I'm just saying that getting embroiled in this debate when we're dealing with psych cases is something I don't want to do. I'm not a psychiatrist. Working in emergency medicine it's not something I'll ever really have to make the call on.
I'd much rather invest my effort into fighting for assisted suicide rights for terminal or physical conditions first, as hardly anyone in the US has that now.
Non-terminal cases are very rare anyway. There's a study for Belgium euthanasia statistics specifically, but it's behind a paywall.
However, I like that the law has decided to leave out a stringent terminal disease requirement. It's a nice touch, and prevents the need to define 'terminal disease', which would have been arbitrary.
Kano on the Phone
Member
If you aren't thinking it personally, then what does "...I don't think we should be straying into these kinds of realms." mean?
Small Update:
A senatorial commission on Justice and Social Issues has approved an expansion of the euthanasia law towards minors.
Here are a couple of specifics:
- Only physical suffering. Psychological suffering will not apply in the case of minors.
- Approval of a psychiatrist or psychologist specialized in youth care necessary.
- Parents or guardian must give approval.
Parties who voted for: socialist, liberals, greens, conservatives
Parties who voted against: christian-democrats, extreme-right
There were several amendments proposed for the new legal text, but all have been rejected. One such amendment was an age restriction of 15 years.
I'm not fully knowledgeable on the legislative system, but the hurdles that are left are approval of the full Senate, approval of the Chamber of Representatives and a symbolical approval of the King.
SOURCE (Dutch): http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/989/Bi...eurt-euthanasie-voor-minderjarigen-goed.dhtml
A senatorial commission on Justice and Social Issues has approved an expansion of the euthanasia law towards minors.
Here are a couple of specifics:
- Only physical suffering. Psychological suffering will not apply in the case of minors.
- Approval of a psychiatrist or psychologist specialized in youth care necessary.
- Parents or guardian must give approval.
Parties who voted for: socialist, liberals, greens, conservatives
Parties who voted against: christian-democrats, extreme-right
There were several amendments proposed for the new legal text, but all have been rejected. One such amendment was an age restriction of 15 years.
I'm not fully knowledgeable on the legislative system, but the hurdles that are left are approval of the full Senate, approval of the Chamber of Representatives and a symbolical approval of the King.
SOURCE (Dutch): http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/989/Bi...eurt-euthanasie-voor-minderjarigen-goed.dhtml
Devolution
Member
If you can't control your own death, especially when all you know is suffering, are you really free?
Origami Superman
Member
If they can maintain absolute and rigorous procedures on how the administer it across a wide panel of different doctors, counsellors etc, then sure.
UPDATE: The senate has accepted the new proposed law for euthanasia for minors, with a vote tally of 50-17.
Voted for: socialists, liberals, green party and conservatives
Voted against: christian-democrats, extreme-right and 2 liberals
The proposal now moves towards the Chamber of Representatives. The Chamber could eventually ask for legal advice from the Council of State.
SOURCE (Dutch): http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/993/Ge...hanasie-voor-minderjarigen-opnieuw-goed.dhtml
Voted for: socialists, liberals, green party and conservatives
Voted against: christian-democrats, extreme-right and 2 liberals
The proposal now moves towards the Chamber of Representatives. The Chamber could eventually ask for legal advice from the Council of State.
SOURCE (Dutch): http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/993/Ge...hanasie-voor-minderjarigen-opnieuw-goed.dhtml
UPDATE: The Justice Commission of the Chamber of Representatives have approved of the law.
Voted for: liberals, socialists, greens, conservatives
Voted against: christian-democrats, extreme right, one liberal
The only hurdle left is the plenary vote of the entire Chamber of Representatives. This will happen tomorrow or next thursday. If the law is approved in the plenary vote, and the King signs the law, Belgium will become the first nation to legalize euthanasia for minors.
Voted for: liberals, socialists, greens, conservatives
Voted against: christian-democrats, extreme right, one liberal
The only hurdle left is the plenary vote of the entire Chamber of Representatives. This will happen tomorrow or next thursday. If the law is approved in the plenary vote, and the King signs the law, Belgium will become the first nation to legalize euthanasia for minors.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Fun fact: when I was a kid I thought people were saying "youth in Asia" and I had no idea what anyone would have against random Chinese kids.
Some of these posts are really ignorant though.
This is a good thing. Why should there be an minimum age limit to endless suffering anyway.
Belgian and ok with that.
In related topic, I consider life the most precious thing one have, but I also believe it's up to you to do whatever you want with it. Even end it.
I think other EU countries have less strict laws regarding euthanasia and embrace assisted suicide even without medical condition. NL maybe? ( edit : wikipedia says Germany )Anyway, I have no problem with that either, although I believe in theses cases it should not involve a third party, and of course be reserved to conscious, major people.
In related topic, I consider life the most precious thing one have, but I also believe it's up to you to do whatever you want with it. Even end it.
I think other EU countries have less strict laws regarding euthanasia and embrace assisted suicide even without medical condition. NL maybe? ( edit : wikipedia says Germany )Anyway, I have no problem with that either, although I believe in theses cases it should not involve a third party, and of course be reserved to conscious, major people.
There still is though. This only applies to older children who are able to consent.
I wonder if people who oppose it have witnessed tragic, long deaths from conditions that were simply not going to get better. It's soul crushing, expensive and life draining for everyone involved. I agree that we're way more humane with animals than with fellow humans, it's ridiculous.
Could I have a source on that? It's hard to find any concrete texts about the contents of the new law.
I just read about it in the newspaper in response to a video of Canadian kid urging the king not to sign the new law (which isn't possible because he has to sign it anyway). I could look for a source, not sure if I'll find one in English though.
boiled goose
good with gravy
tough question for under aged folk.
Consent implies proper understanding. We let guardians/parents make decisions, but the desire to live is tough one.
I am pro assisted suicide/euthanasia for consenting adults.
This is a tough one.
Consent implies proper understanding. We let guardians/parents make decisions, but the desire to live is tough one.
I am pro assisted suicide/euthanasia for consenting adults.
This is a tough one.
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