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[excelsiorlef]

I think Bernie would've won because he had a strong populist message. One hat countered Trump's jingoistic nonsense. Clinton was not likable and it cost her the rust belt.

Trump blamed minorities
Sanders blamed the rich.


Guess who America has more respect for.

Assume nothing.

Side note I wish OPs or posters who share long videos would describe in more detail highlights, would allow for quicker discussion the topic rather than the speaker.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Trump blamed minorities
Sanders blamed the rich.


Guess who America has more respect for.

Assume nothing.

Side note I wish OPs or posters who share long videos would describe in more detail highlights, would allow for quicker discussion the topic rather than the speaker.

The only difference is that one side is actually right.
Also, majority of the American people believe corporations / rich people have way too much power in this system, which they are not wrong about. Just look at where the economical gains from the 2008 crash all went to. 90%+ all went to the top 1%, while the rest of the middle class / lower class continues to struggle.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The only difference is that one side is actually right.
Also, majority of the American people believe corporations / rich people have way too much power in this system, which they are not wrong about. Just look at where the economical gains from the 2008 crash all went to. 90%+ all went to the top 1%.

Can you honestly say with a straight face after that election that being right means anything?

If being right was a key to success the Democrats would win everything in a landslide.

Fact is the votes Trump won were the immigration and terrorism voters not the economy voters

 

[Inuhanyou]

Can you honestly say with a straight face after that election that being right means anything?

If being right was a key to success the Democrats would win everything in a landslide.

Dems arent always right. Hillary wasnt always right, infact she wasn't right a significant amount of the time, that is why even a rodeo orange circus clown beat her and she has lower ratings than trump right now across broad political lines.

What your arguing is the notion that clinton did everything right in the general and did not have weaknesses that were exploited when the fact remains that she had HUGE shortfalls going into the election people could see coming a mile away.

Anyway, this thread is not about clinton, its about Bernie.

 

[televator]

Does he look like Sam Seder a bit in that video?

 

[Conciliator]

bernie bernie hillary bernie

bernie bro progressive dnc. likability hillary bernie establishment rust belt bernie.

hillary both sides white women progressive? bernie base twitter likability, 'economic anxiety' clintonites Trump!

hillary bernie likability donors. BERNIE BERNIE BERNIEBROS, POPULIST HILLARY BERNIE HILLARY 2020 DNC HILLARY

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I don't care who runs in 2020, Bernie or otherwise, so long as they have his sort of progressive sensibilities and a good and just heart like Bernie does. He is truly a representative for the poor, working, and middle classes and a non-cynical fighter for justice for disadvantaged groups and the environment. I hope he has many progressive proteges. We are in dire need of people who think along these lines.

 

[xxracerxx]

Anyway, this thread is not about clinton, its about Bernie.

They are forever entangled now.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Dems arent always right. Hillary wasnt always right, infact she wasn't right a significant amount of the time, that is why even a rodeo orange circus clown beat her and she has lower ratings than trump right now across broad political lines.

What your arguing is the notion that clinton did everything right in the general and did not have weaknesses that were exploited when the fact remains that she had HUGE shortfalls going into the election people could see coming a mile away.

Anyway, this thread is not about clinton, its about Bernie.

Didn't say always, no one is always right that's a preposterous exaggeration of my point. To say that Clinton lost because she was wrong so often is nonsense, in fact hell two of the things people point as things that hurt her was things she was so bluntly right on (Coal is dying and Trump's core supporters are deplorable).

She was far more right on policies and politics (and more right than wrong overall) than Trump.

Democrats overall are far more right and the GOP far more wrong, but that's all a wash because it's not about being actually right or wrong it's about packaging and presentation.

BTW I never brought her up... you did.

My post was in fact about Bernie more or less, I brought up the 2016 election to focus on what voters Trump won and as proof that being right doesn't mean your idea wins out... yours was the one that was entirely focused on Clinton

 

[Joe T.]

Imagine a 2020 election campaign with Hillary and Bernie on the same ticket. NeoGAF would implode.

 

[jack_package_200]

They are forever entangled now.

Like La La Land and Moonlight

 

[Elfforkusu]

That hair is a 10/10.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

He won't

If you've been paying attention, Bernie has absolutely been doing the Running for the Next Presidential Election dance.

 

[And_Gignac]

bernie bernie hillary bernie

bernie bro progressive dnc. likability hillary bernie establishment rust belt bernie.

hillary both sides white women progressive? bernie base twitter likability, 'economic anxiety' clintonites Trump!

hillary bernie likability donors. BERNIE BERNIE BERNIEBROS, POPULIST HILLARY BERNIE HILLARY 2020 DNC HILLARY

I am sick of it too tbh.

 

[Inuhanyou]

BTW I never brought her up... you did.
My post was in fact about Bernie more or less, I brought up the 12016 election to focus on what voters Trump won and as proof that being right doesn't mean your idea wins out... yours was the one that was entirely focused on Clinton

Your right, i assumed you were talking about Clinton, and i totally missed the mark on what you were attempting to say there, i apologize.

 

[pigeon]

How many threads do we need closed today?

Bernie is stealing the energy out of OT just like he stole the voter data out of Clinton's private database

 

[Inuhanyou]

How many threads do we need closed today?

Bernie is stealing the energy out of OT just like he stole the voter data out of Clinton's private database

Although it wasn't Bernie himself, i had a laugh at that one.

However, as long as the progressive wing and the neoliberal wing continue to do battle both inside of Washington and outside, the voters and civilians can only do this

I can only wonder where exactly it will all lead in the end

 

[phanphare]

Side note I wish OPs or posters who share long videos would describe in more detail highlights, would allow for quicker discussion the topic rather than the speaker.

there's a lot in there but there's some good stuff, a lot relevant to today

he goes on a rant about who is actually patriotic and basically calls people who hide behind the american flag hypocrites because their actions raise up people and corporations who don't need it and shit on the many americans that do need some help like poor people, people trying to afford college, and the elderly. he brings up a lot of issues where the majority of american people agree or disagree and then he brings up that reagan is generally liked by the american public and yet his stances and actions go against what the majority of american people thought in regards to those issues.


"I get increasingly frustrated and angry about the hiding behind this american flag. it's our flag. my father came to this country, as did many other people, to look for a better life and we're not going to give that flag over to people who are destroying the environment of this country. they don't have enough money to deal with acid rain but they have enough money to invade Nicaragua. they don't have enough money to provide decently for our elderly and our sick but they have enough money to continue their nuclear testing. who is patriotic and who is not? it's an interesting question."

"what I think is that those of us who are fighting for the rights of the people of Nicaragua against this disastrous Contra aid, fighting for the rights of working people and poor people and the elderly, we should be flying the American flag right-side up with respect and dignity. it's our flag and we are fighting the right fights. it's our flag and we should not be giving it over to right wing people who are, in fact, fighting against the best interest of the vast majority of Americans."

 

[ZackieChan]

Verrit is leaking again.

On topic:

Bernie would be a good pick for a VP position in 2020 if age becomes a factor.

Can I get an authentication code on that factoid?
Also,

Spoiler

is pee stored in my balls?

bernie bernie hillary bernie

bernie bro progressive dnc. likability hillary bernie establishment rust belt bernie.

hillary both sides white women progressive? bernie base twitter likability, 'economic anxiety' clintonites Trump!

hillary bernie likability donors. BERNIE BERNIE BERNIEBROS, POPULIST HILLARY BERNIE HILLARY 2020 DNC HILLARY

Was this written by Tay, Microsoft's AI fam with no chill?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Your right, i assumed you were talking about Clinton, and i totally missed the mark on what you were attempting to say there, i apologize.

Apology accepted.

there's a lot in there but there's some good stuff, a lot relevant to today

he goes on a rant about who is actually patriotic and basically calls people who hide behind the american flag hypocrites because their actions raise up people and corporations who don't need it and shit on the many americans that do need some help like poor people, people trying to afford college, and the elderly. he brings up a lot of issues where the majority of american people agree or disagree and then he brings up that reagan is generally liked by the american public and yet his stances and actions go against what the majority of american people thought in regards to those issues.


"I get increasingly frustrated and angry about the hiding behind this american flag. it's our flag. my father came to this country, as did many other people, to look for a better life and we're not going to give that flag over to people who are destroying the environment of this country. they don't have enough money to deal with acid rain but they have enough money to invade Nicaragua. they don't have enough money to provide decently for our elderly and our sick but they have enough money to continue their nuclear testing. who is patriotic and who is not? it's an interesting question."

"what I think is that those of us who are fighting for the rights of the people of Nicaragua against this disastrous Contra aide, fighting for the rights of working people and poor people and the elderly, we should be flying the American flag right-side up with respect and dignity. it's our flag and we are fighting the right fights. it's our flag and we should not be giving it over to right wing people who are, in fact, fighting against the best interest of the vast majority of Americans."

Good stuff. Thanks. Really powerful statement about how patriotism can be a facade. I wonder how he'd address that now in light of Kaep and stuff. I wonder if he'd be as bold and brazen about it while running for President. I'd like to think he would but I'm curious.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

How many threads do we need closed today?

Bernie is stealing the energy out of OT just like he stole the voter data out of Clinton's private database

This made coming into this thread totally worth it. My sides.

 

[Inuhanyou]

For those who are interested, i really like this interview better than the one in the OP

Its from 88 right after he got elected in Burlington talking to Cspan for the first time, and his answers are really insightful here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMIA46oV6U

 

[excelsiorlef]

For those who are interested, i really like this interview better than the one in the OP

Its from 88 right after he got elected in Burlington talking to Cspan for the first time, and his answers are really insightful here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMIA46oV6U

Same statement to you as to the OP can you outline some highlights. Just posting a 40 minute long video and saying discuss is in my opinion a barrier to actual discussion.

 

[BanGy.nz]

How many threads do we need closed today?

Bernie is stealing the energy out of OT just like he stole the voter data out of Clinton's private database

Expect another one very soon.

 

[norinrad]

A guy who can shake hands and make it effortlessly so cool that it makes every young person look at themselves and think they have failed in the game of Life. Yep that's Bernie alright.

Someone post that gif.

 

[Twig and Berries]

I'm on the "Bernie should be VP on the 2020 ticket" team. I imagine it'd go a long way towards uniting the party and put a cork in the argument that he's only in it for personal fame.

 

[Mael]

People elect a literal illiterate reality show star and the take awat people have is that a career politician would have done better than another career politician against him?

 

[dakilla13]

Too bad he couldn't even win the Democratic primary. Of course if he tried to bring change from within the party during the last 30 years vs trying to ride a "PoLitIcAl ReVoLuTiOn" to the presidency he might have actually gotten somewhere!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm on the "Bernie should be VP on the 2020 ticket" team. I imagine it'd go a long way towards uniting the party and put a cork in the argument that he's only in it for personal fame.

Had Hillary taken Bernie as VP last year, things might have ended up a lot differently.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Had Hillary taken Bernie as VP last year, things might have ended up a lot differently.

I wonder if he'd have even taken it.

 

[Mael]

Too bad he couldn't even win the Democratic primary. Of course if he tried to bring change from within the party during the last 30 years vs trying to ride a "PoLitIcAl ReVoLuTiOn" to the presidency he might have actually gotten somewhere!

Woah, you want him to compromise his pure ideals with doing some nasty politicking to get things done?
No one would ever follow that kind of revolution!

 

[kitsunelaine]

Had Hillary taken Bernie as VP last year, things might have ended up a lot differently.

Citation needed.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Woah, you want him to compromise his pure ideals with doing some nasty politicking to get things done?
No one would ever follow that kind of revolution!

You jest, but

https://web.archive.org/web/2016031...e-sanders-amendments.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Bernie actually had more success than most politicians doing deals and getting things done through intraparty deal making.

I'm assuming you didn't know that due to the snark.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I wonder if he'd have even taken it.

We'll never know, unfortunately.

 

[Mael]

You jest, but

https://web.archive.org/web/2016031...e-sanders-amendments.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Bernie actually had more success than most politicians doing deals and getting things done through intraparty deal making.

I'm assuming you didn't know that due to the snark.

I know about the riders, it achieved nothing as evidenced by his pet issues having gone nowhere for the last 40 years.
Either his pet issues are not important enough for him to try to make deals that would improve the situation or he's incompetent at it.

 

[AmayaPapaya]

Oh a thread about Bernie, this will go well.

I think Bernie or Warren should run next election. Both are popular, and both will beat Trump. Some People in this thread seem to want to invent a new candidate out of thin air, like what happened in '08. Not gonna happen and, historically, doesnt happen. Doesnt even need to happen, like it did then. We got two great candidates with relatively little baggage. Heck, we throw in Biden, and thats three candidates who can for sure beat Trump. Although, I prefer someone more liberal and populist.

Obama and Bill tainted us. Running for President is not for the young upstart (although, Bill was significantly more accomplished than Obama was when he got elected). Being president typically ties you down and ends your political career, after. Let someone who is gonna retire soon take the position, then, leave forever, like they always would have done. Nothing wrong with old people, if they are still in touch.

 

[kitsunelaine]

I know about the riders, it achieved nothing as evidenced by his pet issues having gone nowhere for the last 40 years.
Either his pet issues are not important enough for him to try to make deals that would improve the situation or he's incompetent at it.

Or, he's an ordinary politician, and he knows it's an easy message to get across to voters that makes him look good. Making deals would give him baggage that he doesn't want, because it would easily contrast with his puritan image.

 

[Mael]

Or, he's an ordinary politician, and he knows it's an easy message to get across to voters that makes him look good.

He can't be an ordinary politician! He's pushing the 2nd biggest political revolution of 2016!

 

[Inuhanyou]

I know about the riders, it achieved nothing as evidenced by his pet issues having gone nowhere for the last 40 years.
Either his pet issues are not important enough for him to try to make deals that would improve the situation or he's incompetent at it.

so basically what your saying is, your shit talking what he's managed to do because you are bitter at the guy, got ya.

you act like someone is so uncompromising just because they stick to their ideals most of the time. sanders has been more than pragmatic if you ask his base on some of his more controversial votes

 

[Mael]

so basically what your saying is, your shit talking what he's managed to do because you are bitter at the guy, got ya.

you act like someone is so uncompromising just because they stick to their ideals most of the time. sanders has been more than pragmatic if you ask his base on some of his more controversial votes

What I'm saying is that unlike what the hype is trying to sell, he's an ordinary career politician.
He's defending what he believes is right and compromise when he feels like the bargain is worth it. He's neither special nor particularly persuasive.
We can agree that he manages to do some good work at times.
I don't think he's the kind that would make a good president either.
Don't misunderstand, he's basically Napoléon, Pete the Elder, Colbert, Vauban, Roosevelt, Kenedy, Obama, DeGaulle all rolled up into the bestest candidate ever compared to the current president, I doubt that the US electorate would have agreed however.

 

[AmayaPapaya]

What I'm saying is that unlike what the hype is trying to sell, he's an ordinary career politician.
He's defending what he believes is right and compromise when he feels like the bargain is worth it. He's neither special nor particularly persuasive.
We can agree that he manages to do some good work at times.
I don't think he's the kind that would make a good president either.
Don't misunderstand, he's basically Napoléon, Pete the Elder, Colbert, Vauban, Roosevelt, Kenedy, Obama, DeGaulle all rolled up into the bestest candidate ever compared to the current president, I doubt that the US electorate would have agreed however.

I just don't think you understand why people liked Bernie.

 

[kitsunelaine]

I just don't think you understand why people liked Bernie.

Could you elaborate on what this is? To me it sounds like they absolutely understand why people liked bernie, they just disagree with it.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Same statement to you as to the OP can you outline some highlights. Just posting a 40 minute long video and saying discuss is in my opinion a barrier to actual discussion.

Points in the interview, scattered list.

- Wanting a President who would have the courage to recognize that the people who control the elections are the ones with huge sums of money. Many Americans don't vote because they are disillusioned by the system in place.

- Wanting more than a two party system, a third party composed specifically of the working class, minorities, and women who are currently disenfranchised. Socialist type party, references Canada. Working at the local level.

- Disparity between the rich and poor, healthcare for all, cuts to the military budget, and the illegal war in Nicaragua.

- Talked about how he became interested in politics. Was in a nonpolitical family until college where he learned about the war and racial discrimination and decided to do something about it.

- Was asked how he attempted to create a decent standard of living within the microcosm of Burlington. Answer: Created a new office to bring jobs and urban development grants to the city. Recognized that all things being equal, women earn less than men so created a Women in Trades Construction Bill/Women's Council (Mandated that city funded construction companies hire 10% women per job at a minimum). Youth Employment Council for low income kids.

- Taking issues from the people, making sure the people vote on the issues, especially in the city. Increasing voter turnout.

- Talks about how the Reagan administration is really to blame for the issues in urban development and education, after receiving a question from a caller. Giving kids a reason to learn.

- Hits on affordable healthcare, references Canada and their national healthcare system. And subsidized college education and in medical area.

- How the media are owned by 'Big Money' and the monopoly of corporations in this area. Consumerism in the entertainment space.

- Speaking about Jesse Jackson, believes that class is more a factor than race in terms of presidential campaigns, personally believes that a black man can become President or a woman can become President. But believes that those campaigns will fail because they are not funded by corporations.

For those who are interested, i really like this interview better than the one in the OP

Its from 88 right after he got elected in Burlington talking to Cspan for the first time, and his answers are really insightful here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMIA46oV6U

Thanks for the video. It was a great insight. Loved Bernie's response to the man calling him a Nazi because Bernie was a socialist. And his response to nuclear situation.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I used to be strongly against the idea of a Sander's presidential campaign. But after Trump, it's become clear to me that Americans do not care about a President's ability to do the job.

So yes, Sanders should run in 2020. A lacklustre President is still a far superior alternative to an orange incompetent

 

[Mael]

I just don't think you understand why people liked Bernie.

I feel kinda blessed in having followed 2 presidential election in less than a year from 2 different countries that had in a way similar candidate but ended in very different direction (for obvious reasons).
I understand why people like him and politician like him.
I also understand that he would have been murdered during the general.
His appeal is still limited as evidenced by the primary.
He wasn't even able to resonate with the people he had to convince to be in the general election and I'm supposed to believe he would have managed to convince people who thought that immigrants are the problem?

Could you elaborate on what this is? To me it sounds like they absolutely understand why people liked bernie, they just disagree with it.

Exactly.

 

[kitsunelaine]

I used to be strongly against the idea of a Sander's presidential campaign. But after Trump, it's become clear to me that Americans do not care about a President's ability to do the job.

So yes, Sanders should run in 2020. A lacklustre President is still a far superior alternative to an orange incompetent

The problem then is when you promise the world and fail to deliver (And don't have racism and/or sexism to fall back on), you wind up disenfranchising your base. I would be entirely for a Bernie presidency even in spite of my own misgivings if it weren't for that.

A more apt thing to say here would be that Republicans don't care about a President's ability to do the job. People on the left are somewhat more reasonably minded and in some aspects, more fickle. Right now we're powerless though. That's why we should focus on Midterms and not "Who's next in line for the presidency (I hope it's Bernie oh my god *Squee*)".

The bitterness of Bernie supporters over this is the absolute last thing we need now. I mean this in general and not to the person quoted in this post: Please put your energy towards more productive things that might actually help you in the long run. I'm so, so tired of relitigating the primary, and it accomplishes nothing except to help people cope with a devastating loss that we all felt. But coping in that way is so counterproductive when the world has already moved on. If we can learn anything from Trump it's that the president can hardly do jack shit without the numbers to support him (And Bernie would be no different in that specific instance). You need to do more than just work for one number.

 

[Maztorre]

That's a great video, but I still can't believe Bernie drove ahead of the Clinton campaign last year, stopped at an old wooden sign saying "Wisconsin", gave a sly grin to the camera, and then adjusted the sign to point the opposite direction. (citation: Verrit code 6969420)

But seriously though, I'm looking forward to reading all of GAF's reheated takes about "electability" from 2016. The pragmatic approach, of clearing the decks for someone with no personal charisma, who should have been politely told no more after 2008, has definitely paid off.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Man it's always so surreal to look at videos about people when they were much younger. It's kind of inspiring to be honest. Makes me want to be as knowledgeable and informed when I reach that age.

It's too bad Bernie didn't put 31 years into learning basic math skills, or how to get elected somewhere outside the whitest part of the country, or joining an actual political party. As it is, his plans were financially unworkable, and proudly calling yourself a socialist in 2016 while quotes of praising breadlines, Castro, and stating that you're raising everyone's taxes are lying in wait had Republicans salivating at his candidacy.

Trump woulda cleaned his clock both electorally and popular vote. If he tries running again, he again won't get out of the primary and this time no amount of his fuzzy math that also somehow gave everyone free college and healthcare will get him to the finish line.

Perhaps he should have been an actual Democrat for his political life, and not just jump on board when he needed their money and then bitch when somehow the DNC would rather support a life-long loyal popular Democrat who actually had the votes of the same demographic that made Ron Paul President.

It's cute that he's still out there, coasting on the fame from the same people who believed that 'both sides' was a political mantra. Fortunately we've got another three years of his supported candidates getting voted the fuck down, and that's enough time for maybe, just maybe, his supporters to actually age up and learn why yes, one side IS better than the other, no matter who the hell is running. Or they'll just listen to the first old white guy who cries about how Wall Street is the devil.

 

[Greedings]

So I Bernie basically American Corbyn?

 

[Mael]

So I Bernie basically American Corbyn?

If we're lucky.
If not he's American Mélenchon :/
I'm all for him running in 2020 if Zuckerberg is feeling stupid enough to run.