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Best for gaming/blu ray? Plasma or LCD?

SuperEnemyCrab said:
If you have a costco near you, you can get the 50 inch 1080p Panasonic for $1399 right now, the 42 inch is an even better deal @ $900
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42 in 1080p for $900? Really?

Should I wait for the next line of plasmas or will they be prohibitively expensive?
 
LiK said:
they're not as heavy as plasmas. ;)
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I'll actually second that. Our Panny Plasma is heavy as hell when compared to our LCD (though the LCD is half the size, it's like 1/4 of the weight). You need a decent wall bracket if you're mounting it.
 
It's a valid concern for some if you lead a sad lonely life with no one to help you to set things up. :( Can be quite the hassle.
 
neight said:
The black levels on LCD and plasmas are most definitely not even. You know how to recite technical specs but have you actually seen them in action?
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Key word there was calibrated. Those values are from ISF calibrators. We're not talking about Best Buy or your friends LCD with the backlight cranked up to 11. Most optimal dark room LCD settings are with the backlight around 2 with some form of power savings turned on depending on how they behave. This is also referring to the specific '08 models I mentioned, not some Westinghouse or Vizio at your local Walmart.
 
Reallink said:
Key word there was calibrated. Those values are from ISF calibrators. We're not talking about Best Buy or your friends LCD with the backlight cranked up to 11. Most optimal dark room LCD settings are with the backlight around 2 with some form of power savings turned on depending on how they behave.
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It's worth a mention that the LCDs that can close to match $1500 Plasmas in terms of blacks cost around $3000-4000. The Sony sets are really damn nice though.

neight said:
It's a valid concern for some if you lead a sad lonely life with no one to help you to set things up. :( Can be quite the hassle.
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Well they're heavier, but it shouldn't be much of a concern. The 50" Panny plasma is around 60lbs I believe. You're the king of geekdom if you can't lift a 60lbs TV.

Though, actually, you do need someone to help set it up if you're wall mounting it. This is regardless of the weight though. Once you attach the bracket to the TV, you need someone to hold the TV in place while you screw the TV bracket to the wall bracket. As long as they have the ability to lift 60lbs for a minute or two, you're golden.
 
TheExodu5 said:
I'll actually second that. Our Panny Plasma is heavy as hell when compared to our LCD (though the LCD is half the size, it's like 1/4 of the weight). You need a decent wall bracket if you're mounting it.
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Plasma's might be a bit heavier than LCD, but considering that my 50" plasma is lighter than my 26" CRT, I'm not that concerned.
 
Reallink said:
Key word there was calibrated. Those values are from ISF calibrators. We're not talking about Best Buy or your friends LCD with the backlight cranked up to 11. Most optimal dark room LCD settings are with the backlight around 2 with some form of power savings turned on depending on how they behave.
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I wouldn't mention it otherwise unless I was talking with calibrated sets. No amount of calibration is going to change the way the LCD gets its light. But like theexodus mentioned you're probably talking about some obscenely priced $4k LCDs. Those I haven't seen. But if you're spending that kind of dough on an LCD you should be buying a plasma anyway imo.
 
navanman said:
Hey I hold my plasma in one hand and then play my PS3 with my other hand. Its awesome
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:lol wow

ElNino said:
Plasma's might be a bit heavier than LCD, but considering that my 50" plasma is lighter than my 26" CRT, I'm not that concerned.
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yea, the most weight actually came from the metal stand which is incredibly heavy but keeps the TV uber stable.
 
TheExodu5 said:
It's worth a mention that the LCDs that can close to match $1500 Plasmas in terms of blacks cost around $3000-4000. The Sony sets are really damn nice though.
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Not really, only sacrifice is likely going to be 46" LCD Vs. 50" plasma. Price compare 46a650 and 50pz85u.
 
neight said:
I wouldn't mention it otherwise unless I was talking with calibrated sets. But like theexodus mentioned you're probably talking about some obscenely priced $4k LCDs. Those I haven't seen. But if you're spending that kind of dough on an LCD you should be buying a plasma anyway imo.
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Well there's certainly some reasons for them. I'd recommend them to someone wanting to watch a really good picture in a brightly lit room. Still, to be able to get a bright picture in a bright room like that, you'd need to raise the backlighting to levels where the blacks would look more washed out than usual. They do fare better than plasmas in that situation though. The biggest difference about the good LCDs vs. cheaper LCDs is that the blacks are not nearly as blue. I'm really not sure how Sony achieves those blacks with fluorescent backlighting, but it's pretty darn impressive that they can basically end up matching the LED-backlit Samsungs.

Reallink said:
Not really, only sacrifice is likely going to be 46" LCD Vs. 50" plasma. Price compare 46a650 and 50pz85u.
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I've tested that series of Samsung at Bleekers (local high-end electronics store). They in no way come close to matching plasmas in black levels. The only non-LED backlit LCD TVs that do have good blacks are the higher end Sonys.
 
Reallink said:
Not really, only sacrifice is likely going to be 46" LCD Vs. 50" plasma. Price compare 46a650 and 50pz85u.
Click to expand...
Now those Samsungs I know for a fact are no where near close to plasmas when it comes to black levels. During nighttime the contrast is affected by the backlight and I've seen more than one of those models with clouding problems.
 
The 9G Kuros are slightly less than 0.001 fl. 8G Kuro is about 0.004 fl.
2008 Panasonic (PZ85 and up) is about 0.007 fl

The only LCD that even approaches the Panasonic minimum fl is the Samsung 6 series. And that's assuming you're watching dead center where the blacks are at their darkest. Calibration does not affect minimum fl in any way.
 
H_Prestige said:
The 9G Kuros are slightly less than 0.001 fl. 8G Kuro is about 0.004 fl.
2008 Panasonic (PZ85 and up) is about 0.007 fl

The only LCD that even approaches the Panasonic minimum fl is the Samsung 6 series. And that's assuming you're watching dead center where the blacks are at their darkest. Calibration does not affect minimum fl in any way.
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Maybe I was watching the Sony's in a bad environment. The Samsungs didn't look that impressive in a home theatre setup. The Sony I was watching at Futureshop though, so it was bright. Maybe the blacks weren't very dark, but at least they were black and not blue. Even if those Samsungs have darker blacks, they're definitely more blue-ish in tint.

Oh damn those 9G Kuros. I can only dream!
 
TheExodu5 said:
Maybe I was watching the Sony's in a bad environment. The Samsungs didn't look that impressive in a home theatre setup. The Sony I was watching at Futureshop though, so it was bright. Maybe the blacks weren't very dark, but at least they were black and not blue. Even if those Samsungs have darker blacks, they're definitely more blue-ish in tint.

Oh damn those 9G Kuros. I can only dream!
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I'm not 100% sure on the Samsung's numbers. I've read measurements tracking around 0.009 fl, which is very impressive for an LCD. To be honest they can look very black when looked at dead center. But the blacks quickly turn blue-ish and the picture washes out at off angles just like most LCDs.
 
Draft said:
I've noticed that plasma guys are like the Apple fans of the TV world.

They are just zealous.
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Except we pay less for more. Apple fans are the other way around.

Oh, and though I linked the 85U, I should mention that I actually have the 850U. Spec-wise, they seem pretty comparable. Honestly, I'm not sure why the difference in price is so large. In Canada, all we had was the higher end 850U though, sold exclusively by Futureshop. :(
 
I actually did go LCD, and I am very happy with my TV (Samsung 650)

I'm not even necessarily saying the plasma guys are wrong. I'm just saying that when I read plasma guy opinions, I temper that input with the knowledge that plasma guys are super fucking hyped about plasma.
 
Plasma Plasma Plasma. I've got a 2-year-old Pioneer and hope to upgrade to a more recent Kuro in the near future. My set is awesome, but on the new sets the black level is godly.

I was a CRT/RPTV guy until two years ago. I had no plasma bias until I evaluated them versus LCD.
 
neight said:
Now those Samsungs I know for a fact are no where near close to plasmas when it comes to black levels. During nighttime the contrast is affected by the backlight and I've seen more than one of those models with clouding problems.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll just go ahead and post a couple links so you can compare for yourself. On the subject of contrast, I would have said you were probably right, the plasma may be a little better. On a google search though, it doesn't seem like they're too far above would I would estimate real world LCD values to be (could only find 1711:1 for LAST YEARS budget model).
 
imo nothing beats the immersion of hd projector on a good cinema screen.

but between a lcd screen and a plasma: plasma

budget: go panasonic
rich: go pioneer kuro
 
Reallink said:
I guess I'll just go ahead and post a couple links so you can compare for yourself. On the subject of contrast, I would have said you were probably right, the plasma may be a little better. On a google search though, it doesn't seem like they're too far above would I would estimate real world LCD values to be (could only find 1711:1 for LAST YEARS budget model).
Click to expand...

Panny Plasma native contrast is 30,000:1. That's a pretty big difference, IMO. Also, keep in mind that the blue fluorescent backlighting of LCD TVs biases their colors towards blue.

You have companies like Samsung that do nothing but publich their dynamic contrast ratio, which is pure bs. As a general rule of thumb, if you're given a dynamic contrast ratio, you can usually divide by 20 to get the approximate native contrast ratio.
 
Let's not forget that all these numbers are referring to on/off contrast. The more relevant number is ANSI contrast. If you put a 2008 Panasonic next to a 2007 Kuro on blank inputs, you'd be hard pressed to see much of a difference. But turn the TVs on and start watching stuff and the Kuro will look noticeably more "inky". That's because of the exceptional ANSI contrast that not a lot of people talk about. It's able to hold on to it's minimum black level a lot better than a Panasonic.

On/off contrast doesn't necessarily imply a good ANSI contrast, or vice versa. For example, CRT is still the on/off contrast champion (if Pioneer hasn't beaten it by now), but plasma has had a much better ANSI since day one.
 
H_Prestige said:
Let's not forget that all these numbers are referring to on/off contrast. The more relevant number is ANSI contrast. If you put a 2008 Panasonic next to a 2007 Kuro on blank inputs, you'd be hard pressed to see much of a difference. But turn the TVs on and start watching stuff and the Kuro will look noticeably more "inky". That's because of the exceptional ANSI contrast that not a lot of people talk about. It's able to hold on to it's minimum black level a lot better than a Panasonic.

On/off contrast doesn't necessarily imply a good ANSI contrast, or vice versa. For example, CRT is still the on/off contrast champion (if Pioneer hasn't beaten it by now), but plasma has had a much better ANSI since day one.
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Interesting. I'm guessing a bad ANSI contrast would equate to more color bleeding?
 
I am thinking about getting a new TV myself. I've been gaming and doing computer work off of my HD CRT so I've been pretty picky about my choice. Originally I was going for a Kuro but have backed off of that choice due to fears of burn in due to using my computer a lot and my old school gaming habits.

Lately I've been eyeing the Samsung 950f LCD series. It has some pretty sick black levels that seem comparable to plasmas. The downside is that the price is still in the $4,000 range.
 
Reallink said:
I guess I'll just go ahead and post a couple links so you can compare for yourself. On the subject of contrast, I would have said you were probably right, the plasma may be a little better. On a google search though, it doesn't seem like they're too far above would I would estimate real world LCD values to be (could only find 1711:1 for LAST YEARS budget model).
Click to expand...
Oh puhlease don't go wasting time searching for links to back you up. You either know your shit or you don't.
 
Enk said:
I am thinking about getting a new TV myself. I've been gaming and doing computer work off of my HD CRT so I've been pretty picky about my choice. Originally I was going for a Kuro but have backed off of that choice due to fears of burn in due to using my computer a lot and my old school gaming habits.

Lately I've been eyeing the Samsung 950f LCD series. It has some pretty sick black levels that seem comparable to plasmas. The downside is that the price is still in the $4,000 range.
Click to expand...

If you're going to use it for PC, then you might have reason to sway from plasmas. Burn-in is pretty much a non-issue for entertainment use, but I'm not sure how well it'd fare against the taskbar. If the taskbar was mid-tone, you'd probably be fine, but a black taskbar would definitely result in uneven phosphor aging. From what I hear though, after the first 100 hours, burn-in is very minimal. You could always pick one up from a retailer that allows returns, and see if you notice burn-in.

Another note about burn-in, it's only visible on a pure white, or very light colored background. On my TV at least, I can see that the outside edge of a 4:3 frame is brighter colored than the inside edge of my frame. I didn't follow the "full-screen material for the first 100 hours" precaution, which led to slight burn-in on my set. The burn-in will even out after a bit more use, once the outer phosphors age.
 
TheExodu5 said:
Interesting. I'm guessing a bad ANSI contrast would equate to more color bleeding?
Click to expand...

You measure ANSI by putting a checkerboard pattern of alternating black and white squares on the display. Then you measure the minimum fl of the black areas. Typically the white portions will "lighten" the black areas, making them less black than on a blank input. Displays with high ANSI are less susceptible to this.

Right now I have a 42" pz85 and a small Toshiba CRT. The CRT definitely has more solid blacks on a blank input or on letterbox bars, but it looks horribly washed out compared to the plasma with normal video content.
 
dynamitejim said:
Plasma. I got a Panasonic 42" PZ85U and my only regrets are not going bigger and I probably could've waited for next year's models.
Click to expand...

Having the same regret.
Decided to fix my mistake and will be picking up a 50" plasma this week.
 
TheExodu5 said:
If you're going to use it for PC, then you might have reason to sway from plasmas. Burn-in is pretty much a non-issue for entertainment use, but I'm not sure how well it'd fare against the taskbar. If the taskbar was mid-tone, you'd probably be fine, but a black taskbar would definitely result in uneven phosphor aging.
Click to expand...

That reminds me. I'm currently using a 32 inch 1080i LCD Vizio, and 360 with VGA adapter. Can't remember the model number on the Vizio unfortunately. But within the next few months I'll likely be upgrading to a 1080p 37-42 inch LCD. On the new TV, I'll be doing blu ray, 360, and a decent gaming rig/media center PC. I've been checking out reviews, and leaning toward a 42 inch Philips. Any suggestions?
 
neight said:
Oh puhlease don't go wasting time searching for links to back you up. You either know your shit or you don't.
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Well you kept trying to argue it so I figured you weren't going to be satisfied without sources.
 
TerryLee81 said:
Actually I wish it would do that, this way I had an excuse to buy a newer model. I promised my gf that I won't buy a new TV for the next 5 years :(
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dont worry, maybe the SED sets will be out by then. another competitor for your money. :)
 
H_Prestige said:
You measure ANSI by putting a checkerboard pattern of alternating black and white squares on the display. Then you measure the minimum fl of the black areas. Typically the white portions will "lighten" the black areas, making them less black than on a blank input. Displays with high ANSI are less susceptible to this.

Right now I have a 42" pz85 and a small Toshiba CRT. The CRT definitely has more solid blacks on a blank input or on letterbox bars, but it looks horribly washed out compared to the plasma with normal video content.
Click to expand...

I game on a RP CRT and bluray too, so this lens flare you speak of annoys me greatly. How much of an improvement does duveltyne (sp?) tape reduce this problem. Im thinking of shelling out some cash to get it done....not a full cal though, just the tape and cleaning (if that) .

Also curious, how is a plasma lit?
 
_RT_ said:
Having the same regret.
Decided to fix my mistake and will be picking up a 50" plasma this week.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised how much and how quickly prices have dropped. I could get a 46" for less than what I paid in May or a 50" for not much more.
 
Lion Heart said:
Also curious, how is a plasma lit?
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Not quite sure what you mean. Plasma is a direct view display like CRT and OLED. The pixels generate their own light which is why the viewing angles are so good. LCD and RP displays rely on a backlight.
 
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