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Bethesda, declining technical quality and future projects

I'd like to talk about Bethesda and their games for a moment. I used to be a huge fan of their games for a time. I was introduced to Oblivion on PS3 by a friend and followed them really closely from there. Fallout was a franchise I likely never would have played if they hadn't made Fallout 3 and I think it was great having large scale western RPG's coming from this studio that had their kind of trademark things from art style, to the engine and those lovable little glitches etc. We know that Starfield and The Elder Scrolls 6 are coming in the future but I want to just go back to the glitches and talk about the technical side of Bethesda games.

I learned pretty quickly that Bethesda games had a lot of little glitches that seemed like part of the charm of their games. But here lies one of my big problems. I still want to buy Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 but if Fallout 76 and Fallout 4 are anything to go off then... I really don't think I will. Those little glitches pretty quickly evolved into bigger and more heinous ones with each title and whilst I was loving Fallout 4, I lost all of my progress, everything I had done because of a glitch that couldn't be solved and previous save files were not helping. The mission where you go to meet a scientist in the irradiated wasteland wouldn't work for me because every time I got to the end location, the character I needed to speak too just spoke to me like the average NPC and the mission progress wouldn't trigger regardless.

Games like this require a lot of investment from gamers and no matter how I tried to work around it, it just wasn't working. I lost over 100 hours of gameplay and I couldn't bring myself to play again because I was happy with the story that I had played and honestly I couldn't remember how to get back to where I was, all the choices I had made and settlements that I had built. But you could kind of see it with each new game that Bethesda made. The glitches and technical problems were just getting worse and worse and it's not like I think these are bad games, I really do enjoy them but it's hard to enjoy the story and gameplay when the game in some places just physically does not work.

Flash to Fallout 76 and it just hit a wall. I promised myself I wouldn't buy it until it was stable and it still isn't stable... not only that, but members who paid for their exclusive FO76 service had even worse problems... personally I blamed the game engine but Kotaku and Mr Schrier made it clear, apparently that the engine isn't the issue, even though the Creation engine is just a hugely modified version of Gamebryo and you just have to admit that there's a big problem. Quality assurance doesn't seem to exist as incredibly annoying issues are present at launch and for a long time after. But having played Witcher 3 Game of the Year and seeing just how well everything worked that I can't accept the old excuse of 'Well it's such a big game, you expect some issues right!?'

I'm not sure new consoles are going to really help the problem Bethesda face here. I would like to buy future Bethesda games but if the declining technical quality is any idea of what the future holds then I can't see myself buying future games until the final editions come out and I can play them as stable as possible. It's embarrassing for developers when the majority of the fixes for games come from fans and mods rather than the developer themselves. I think if they came out and said something like they're going to use Unreal Engine or something that I would be really interested in what they have to show but I would hate to buy another Bethesda release to find out that there are major issues. Especially when I couldn't even play Skyrim for months when it came out due to fact that it just crashed on my rig in the opening. Took many updates before it worked.

For fans of Bethesda games, do you plan on playing Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 at launch? Or are you going to wait like I am to see just how well the games perform before playing them?
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
As competing games get bigger and bigger, I do think that Bethesda’s many technical failings, whether bugs, or struggling to deliver acceptable visuals and animation, are no longer acceptable.

I’m not super negative about it, or down on them, or anything, but I hope that Fallout 76 was enough of a wake-up call for them, that they can change course for some truly anticipated stuff, like the next Elder Scrolls.

I believe their games are usually something truly special — they just need a bit more time in the oven.
 
As competing games get bigger and bigger, I do think that Bethesda’s many technical failings, whether bugs, or struggling to deliver acceptable visuals and animation, are no longer acceptable.

I’m not super negative about it, or down on them, or anything, but I hope that Fallout 76 was enough of a wake-up call for them, that they can change course for some truly anticipated stuff, like the next Elder Scrolls.

I believe their games are usually something truly special — they just need a bit more time in the oven.

I agree with your point but I'm not sure that more time in the oven will work. I think it's like working in a factory where the machines you use are building things that are faulty and you're then having to go and use your tools to go and fix them by hand to make your products acceptable for sale.

I know that's really random but I think something somewhere is really not going right and I think that even if you gave Fallout 76 another 2 years in the oven to bake, I don't think the quality would be far better than what it is now. I think that maybe they need to go closer into the development process and really look at the software, the code etc and just see where it's going wrong.
 

Stuart360

Member
Fallout 76 might actually turn out to be the best thing Bethesda have done in years ironically, because surely 76 is going to be a huge wake up call to Bethesda, and show them that people wont accept their shit anymore. The only reason why they would get away with their technical messes in the past was because the core games were great, 76 isnt, and that why gamers have turned on them big style.
 

nikolino840

Member
I'd like to talk about Bethesda and their games for a moment. I used to be a huge fan of their games for a time. I was introduced to Oblivion on PS3 by a friend and followed them really closely from there. Fallout was a franchise I likely never would have played if they hadn't made Fallout 3 and I think it was great having large scale western RPG's coming from this studio that had their kind of trademark things from art style, to the engine and those lovable little glitches etc. We know that Starfield and The Elder Scrolls 6 are coming in the future but I want to just go back to the glitches and talk about the technical side of Bethesda games.

I learned pretty quickly that Bethesda games had a lot of little glitches that seemed like part of the charm of their games. But here lies one of my big problems. I still want to buy Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 but if Fallout 76 and Fallout 4 are anything to go off then... I really don't think I will. Those little glitches pretty quickly evolved into bigger and more heinous ones with each title and whilst I was loving Fallout 4, I lost all of my progress, everything I had done because of a glitch that couldn't be solved and previous save files were not helping. The mission where you go to meet a scientist in the irradiated wasteland wouldn't work for me because every time I got to the end location, the character I needed to speak too just spoke to me like the average NPC and the mission progress wouldn't trigger regardless.

Games like this require a lot of investment from gamers and no matter how I tried to work around it, it just wasn't working. I lost over 100 hours of gameplay and I couldn't bring myself to play again because I was happy with the story that I had played and honestly I couldn't remember how to get back to where I was, all the choices I had made and settlements that I had built. But you could kind of see it with each new game that Bethesda made. The glitches and technical problems were just getting worse and worse and it's not like I think these are bad games, I really do enjoy them but it's hard to enjoy the story and gameplay when the game in some places just physically does not work.

Flash to Fallout 76 and it just hit a wall. I promised myself I wouldn't buy it until it was stable and it still isn't stable... not only that, but members who paid for their exclusive FO76 service had even worse problems... personally I blamed the game engine but Kotaku and Mr Schrier made it clear, apparently that the engine isn't the issue, even though the Creation engine is just a hugely modified version of Gamebryo and you just have to admit that there's a big problem. Quality assurance doesn't seem to exist as incredibly annoying issues are present at launch and for a long time after. But having played Witcher 3 Game of the Year and seeing just how well everything worked that I can't accept the old excuse of 'Well it's such a big game, you expect some issues right!?'

I'm not sure new consoles are going to really help the problem Bethesda face here. I would like to buy future Bethesda games but if the declining technical quality is any idea of what the future holds then I can't see myself buying future games until the final editions come out and I can play them as stable as possible. It's embarrassing for developers when the majority of the fixes for games come from fans and mods rather than the developer themselves. I think if they came out and said something like they're going to use Unreal Engine or something that I would be really interested in what they have to show but I would hate to buy another Bethesda release to find out that there are major issues. Especially when I couldn't even play Skyrim for months when it came out due to fact that it just crashed on my rig in the opening. Took many updates before it worked.

For fans of Bethesda games, do you plan on playing Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 at launch? Or are you going to wait like I am to see just how well the games perform before playing them?
If you look fallout 76 i think Is Better then elder scrolls online made by zenimax with a different engine
 

nowhat

Member
surely 76 is going to be a huge wake up call to Bethesda, and show them that people wont accept their shit anymore
Given that people actually are paying for Fallout First (and also starting a class war of sorts within the game, which is kind of hilarious), with the justification for many being "they're working to improve the game, but they need our support to do so", many people are willing to accept shit and even pay for it seems.
 

Stuart360

Member
Given that people actually are paying for Fallout First (and also starting a class war of sorts within the game, which is kind of hilarious), with the justification for many being "they're working to improve the game, but they need our support to do so", many people are willing to accept shit and even pay for it seems.
How many though have 'First'?, 1000?, 10,000?, no one knows. And the fact that those First players are getting griefed and ganged up on by normal 76 players, shows exactly what i mean.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Bethesda is a company riding on their past successes and in many ways stuck in the past. It blows my mind how arrogant they were with Fallout 76 on multiple occasions (pre and post launch). Normally you'd think it would be a huge wake up call for them and they'do everything to change things for the better. At this point I fully expect Fallout 5 and TES6 to be lazy, buggy games with severely outdated gameplay mechanics.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
If Bethesda wants to get back in my good graces, re-release New Vegas and Fallout 3 on current gen or next consoles.

It will help if they make Starfield good.
 

Matt_Fox

Member
Dare I pull back this curtain, as I feel it wont be popular...

Bethesda has had one failed launch with Fallout 76 and... that's it. Internet 'influencers', 'podcasters', youtubers', and other click bait hungry types have dined out on this ever since, and have piled on to create a narrative, to create a story of 'how the mighty have fallen'.

Growing up in Britain I've seen our sleazy tabloid press do this time and time again to a well-known individual - they slam them, and slam them again, and again - they create the daily soap opera that their readers cant resist reading. Until one day they flip the narrative and then the story becomes all about 'the comeback'.

The internet has learned how to do this too. All those who make their living off clicks, they've learned it, and Bethesda gave them some juicy material for their 'soap opera' with Fallout 76. When Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 comes out to critical acclaim then once again the click bait hungry sites will seize on that and the story will turn again...
 

Stuart360

Member
Dare I pull back this curtain, as I feel it wont be popular...

Bethesda has had one failed launch with Fallout 76 and... that's it. Internet 'influencers', 'podcasters', youtubers', and other click bait hungry types have dined out on this ever since, and have piled on to create a narrative, to create a story of 'how the mighty have fallen'.

Growing up in Britain I've seen our sleazy tabloid press do this time and time again to a well-known individual - they slam them, and slam them again, and again - they create the daily soap opera that their readers cant resist reading. Until one day they flip the narrative and then the story becomes all about 'the comeback'.

The internet has learned how to do this too. All those who make their living off clicks, they've learned it, and Bethesda gave them some juicy material for their 'soap opera' with Fallout 76. When Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 comes out to critical acclaim then once again the click bait hungry sites will seize on that and the story will turn again...
So you're saying that they released a shit game and people turned on them, but if their next game is good, people will be giving them praise again?

giphy.gif
 

Matt_Fox

Member
Look Bethesda's been around since the 80s so if you think one bad launch makes them a failure then that's your prerogative.

But if you're going to boil down what I'm saying then it would be that click baiters need their clicks, and Bethesda is their current whipping boy / golden goose.
 

Stuart360

Member
Look Bethesda's been around since the 80s so if you think one bad launch makes them a failure then that's your prerogative.

But if you're going to boil down what I'm saying then it would be that click baiters need their clicks, and Bethesda is their current whipping boy / golden goose.
I loved Bethesda, probably still do. Skyrim is my fave game of all time.
Its like i said earlier, peole have had a problem with Bethesda games for years, in terms of bugs and technical messes, but they always begrudgingly got away with it because their games were great. With Fallout 76, they dont have that 'its still a great game though' excuse anymore, and i think thats why it looks like people have turned on them excessively, but its not really that. As soon as they released a bad game, all the technical messesed up and bugged games from the past, was always going to come and bite them in the arse big style.
 
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nowhat

Member
Look Bethesda's been around since the 80s so if you think one bad launch makes them a failure then that's your prerogative.
It's not just "one bad launch". FO76 was a catastrophic launch, that is in a whole another category altogether. But to many (myself included) Fallout 4 turned out to be a disappointment. Elder Scrolls Blades - yeah, I don't know if there's anyone hyped over that release. And while not developed by Bethesda (only published), Rage 2 and Wolfenstein: Youngblood didn't exactly receive a warm reception, especially the latter.

With Starfield being probably years off and Elder Scrolls 6 even more, I don't think Bethesda is really in such a good position right now.
 

Shrap

Member
Declining technical quality? Lovable little glitches?

Bethesda games have always had awful technical quality and game breaking bugs. People calling them "lovable" and "little" is the reason they continue to half arse everything.

This Mega64 video sums it up:

 
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Starfield

Member
Sucks that you lost your Fallout 4 save but imo of all the Fallouts 4 was the one with the least glitches and bugs. It just didn't have a good enough story and interesting side quests.

Fallout 76 was a huge mess we all know that....But keep in mind that Fallout 76 was mainly made by the guys who developed Battle Cry, a game that was just crap and got cancelled therefore.
 

nowhat

Member
Sucks that you lost your Fallout 4 save but imo of all the Fallouts 4 was the one with the least glitches and bugs.
I suppose it may be a matter of platform/luck, but on consoles, elevators are effectively loading screens (or they are the slowest elevators in existence). And on multiple occasions I fell through the floor of an elevator - essentially, I was killed by a loading screen.

But what really grinds my gears is that despite my overall disappointment with FO4, I did buy Far Harbor. Liked it well enough. Deleted the game afterwards to free some space. But when the Pro patch was released, I decided to try it out. I'm unable to install the expansion again. I tried multiple methods, removing all my saves, installing it via PS Store or in-game (the latter can say it's installed, and still offer an option to install it), nothing works. Finally I said fuck it and haven't tried since. If a game refuses to let me play content I've paid for, I'd consider that quite a major bug.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I don't think they care. Their games are going to sell enough at launch to make profit and while that happens, they don't have to care.
Look at Skyrim ps4, they had YEARS to fix certain bugs and never bothered with it, they even added a few more bugs (none serious) with the porting.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Oh come on, you're selling it short.

There are improved god-rays!
If only those God-rays prevented the 2 game breaking bugs that forced me to restart the game twice on Ps4!
Key items shouldn't be affected by force shout! Not being able to pick up a key item because it got stuck in a wall or went through the locked door it was supposed to open is ridiculous.
 
Now now. All they need to do is say they are going to do better, tease a reboot, offer no information at all, leak it to Kotaku, and everything will be fine! That's how we consumer!

We forgive you God Howard!


Edit: Don't @ me haters. It's not like all their products had mold! Infact most of their products were mold-free. And they only doxxed their customers once! Just once! And yes, there was a great canvas shortage in 2018. Y'all just want to be sooooo negative on anything.
 
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FranXico

Member
Now now. All they need to do is say they are going to do better, tease a reboot, offer no information at all, leak it to Kotaku, and everything will be fine! That's how we consumer!

We forgive you God Howard!


Edit: Don't @ me haters. It's not like all their products had mold! Infact most were mold free. And they only doxxed their customers once! Just once! And yes, there was a great canvas shortage in 2018. Y'all just want to be sooooo negative on anything.
Don't forget the corporate self-deprecating jokes at next E3.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Wasn't the first Elder Scrolls game one of their buggiest? Also Morrowind used to crash on me every five minutes because it had issues with my sound blaster. I don't remember which card it was, but it a was one of their popular ones at the time. It was quite baffling they didn't fix an issue with such a popular piece of hardware. This was still a bit before onboard motherboard sound was acceptable. Anyway, Bethesda's technical quality hasn't been declining, it's been a fucking roller coaster.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Technical issues aside, in terms of story and characters … Elder Scrolls isn't cutting it anymore. The NPCs are bland, the characterization is laughable once you compare it with the latest games, voice acting is meh and the gameplay is really simplified. I started playing Skyrim and I've poured 1200 hours on Steam (300 of those was bug-testing the mod builds I would do), but as more and more RPGs came out, Skyrim seemed more and more lacking in every department. Bugs is the least I'm worried about. I've played Fallout 4 and the Outer Worlds for about 4 hours each and Fallout 4, a game with … I don't know, ten times more budget? Looks like a turd (in terms of story, setting, gameplay and characters) next to Outer Worlds.

I mean, check the trailer for Crimson Desert, a story-driven MMORPG made by the guys who made Black Desert, and tell me if ES6 has any chance of surpassing that game, despite coming out 6-7 years later. Spoiler warning: It won't.

 

LOLCats

Banned
ES6 or the next SP Fallout need to stick to the standard script, otherwise they are dead to me.

Create the games people want, not the games you want people to want.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Fallout 4 was actually my breaking point. The engine is definitely dated at this point, but for me it's their design that's the issue. The open world rpg has now been done better than Bethesda which before you could see the ambition and forgive things.

As other developers craft better experiences, people will care less and less if they don't chnage things up substantially.

Cyberpunk will be a huge test I think for the genre and open worlds in general. It appears on the surface to be what Bethesda used to be able to sell their games on.
 
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
I don’t mind the bugs too much, I’m probably more tolerant than most, as the engine gives a world that feels lived in. That said, as Nickolaidas Nickolaidas above points out, the story, voice acting, etc is poor. I enjoyed Skyrim but the Witcher obliterated it and I couldn’t go back. Then Kingdom Come Deliverance absolutely set the new standard. I honestly don’t think Bethesda have it in them to match that level.

RPGs have come a long way, tacking on crafting in fallout 4 shows that Bethesda haven’t been watching and learning, it shows they’re just tacking on bullet points for the latest fads (I half expect dabbing wizards doing battle royals in ES6). Like BioWare, they’re done.
 

Starfield

Member
Technical issues aside, in terms of story and characters … Elder Scrolls isn't cutting it anymore. The NPCs are bland, the characterization is laughable once you compare it with the latest games, voice acting is meh and the gameplay is really simplified. I started playing Skyrim and I've poured 1200 hours on Steam (300 of those was bug-testing the mod builds I would do), but as more and more RPGs came out, Skyrim seemed more and more lacking in every department. Bugs is the least I'm worried about. I've played Fallout 4 and the Outer Worlds for about 4 hours each and Fallout 4, a game with … I don't know, ten times more budget? Looks like a turd (in terms of story, setting, gameplay and characters) next to Outer Worlds.

I mean, check the trailer for Crimson Desert, a story-driven MMORPG made by the guys who made Black Desert, and tell me if ES6 has any chance of surpassing that game, despite coming out 6-7 years later. Spoiler warning: It won't.


You're comparing an ONLINE RPG where the trailer look like some cutscenes clipped together that show no actual real gameplay to a SINGLE PLAYER RPG which is coming out in 5-6 years.

Spoiler: It absolutely will


This game looks like its graphics is on par with The Witcher 3...which will be pretty dated in the next coming 5-6 years. We're going to have new hardware, much better fleshed out RTX and with that in mind BGS is currently not even in deep development for a new TES.

THE ELDER SCROLLS is a BEAST

It will tear apart EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. role playing game once it comes out, assuming they dont fuck up Starfield.

Im sorry but Crimson Desert's servers might not even be online anymore once TES Vl comes out HAHA


+ Opinions are sometimes different dude, I for example thought The Outer Worlds was the most boring woke shit ever. Game World feels like a static lifeless painting, nothing more.
 
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anthraticus

Banned
Bethesduh has been crap for a lot longer than ppl are making it seem, making baby's first RPG type shit since Oblivious. If you're a seasoned RPG fan, there's nothing to look forward to from them.
 

Gargus

Banned
Bethesda has the absolute worst engine designers and coders, the worst play testers, the worst trouble shooting and debugging people ever, the worst quality assurance department ever, and really overall the worst care ever for their games. And yes there are worse games from a technical standpoint, but bethesda has just been awful for a very very long time consistently. They know because everyone publicly complains about the quality but they just dont care. Fallout 3 still to do this has game breaking bugs and shitty performance, but it's like they look and say "alright we will fix that if at least 87% of our customers complain at least 7 times. Other than that fuck em"

But now their games are suffering also. Like fallout 4 is the most generic, safe, inoffensive, uninspired, and bland fallout to date with a bunch of microtransaction shit tossed in so they can justify the utterly useless and tedious building mechanics. Fallout 76 is the same but worse.

I love fallout but I hate what bethesda did to it. I'm thinking skyrim is going to be the companies peak. It will be what mass effect 2 was to bioware.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
THE ELDER SCROLLS is a BEAST

The Elder Scrolls is a beast which has aged horribly and is unable to keep up with the big boys. In terms of story, in terms of gameplay, in terms of everything. Fallout 4 looks like a last gen game in every way and Bethesda seems unwilling to take advantage of new technology. They used to be great and pioneers, but now they rely on modders to sell their game.

I made my prediction and you've made yours. Let's see who will end up right.

EDIT: And the fact that an MMORPG's gameplay & cutscenes seem to have more depth and characterization than all previous Elder Scroll & Fallout games altogether should be a red flag on how low Bethesda has fallen and how complacent they have become since Morrowind.
 
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Starfield

Member
The Elder Scrolls is a beast which has aged horribly and is unable to keep up with the big boys. In terms of story, in terms of gameplay, in terms of everything. Fallout 4 looks like a last gen game in every way and Bethesda seems unwilling to take advantage of new technology. They used to be great and pioneers, but now they rely on modders to sell their game.

I made my prediction and you've made yours. Let's see who will end up right.

EDIT: And the fact that an MMORPG's gameplay & cutscenes seem to have more depth and characterization than all previous Elder Scroll & Fallout games altogether should be a red flag on how low Bethesda has fallen and how complacent they have become since Morrowind.
MYJag36.png


For an 8 year old game it's doing pretty fine to be honest. Not to mention that Fallout 4 is even way above.

I dunno man. The same could happen to any developer. CDPR could turn to shit aswell further down the road. You never know.
What I do know is that this Crimson game won't be similar to TES in the SLIGHTEST. Its kind of like if you compare WoW to witcher or elder scrolls. Doesnt make much sense does it.

Im sorry but TES has probably 100x more lore and stories than this Crimson game. Theres literally hundreds of BOOKS which you can read inside their games. And I'd take the quests and stories from Morrowind/Oblivion or even the weaker Skyrim over an mmorpg's story ANY day.
 

420bits

Member
A once great studio but hasn't been for years. Last time they got money from me was Fallout 3: New Vegas and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 
Dare I pull back this curtain, as I feel it wont be popular...

Bethesda has had one failed launch with Fallout 76 and... that's it. Internet 'influencers', 'podcasters', youtubers', and other click bait hungry types have dined out on this ever since, and have piled on to create a narrative, to create a story of 'how the mighty have fallen'.

Growing up in Britain I've seen our sleazy tabloid press do this time and time again to a well-known individual - they slam them, and slam them again, and again - they create the daily soap opera that their readers cant resist reading. Until one day they flip the narrative and then the story becomes all about 'the comeback'.

The internet has learned how to do this too. All those who make their living off clicks, they've learned it, and Bethesda gave them some juicy material for their 'soap opera' with Fallout 76. When Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 comes out to critical acclaim then once again the click bait hungry sites will seize on that and the story will turn again...
One failed launch? Are you unaware of their PS3 version of Skyrim which was completely broken and never fixed?
 
I can't believe they got away with that shitshow. I paid full price for that game and once my save reached a certain size.........3 FPS. Wonderful.

I think they tried to patch it once. Then just gave up.
 
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