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Bethesda's games should have proper cutscenes

AuthenticM said:
I was replaying Skyrim this past holiday and it really hit me how the narrative suffered from the lack of proper cutscenes and any sort of cinematography. Everything is fed to the player while he's in first-person mode. This has the side-effect of making character interactions robotic and disjointed. Sometimes pauses between dialogue bits are too long, and other stuff like that. I get that they want to put the focus on immersion at the cost of everything else, but I think that such an extreme position does more harm than good.

What if they kept the player-character a silent protagonist whose personality is still forged by the player through dialogue choices, but made cutscenes and conversation third-person only ? This way they could be creative with the shots and enrich the narration with it. I'm talking about something resembling KotOR and Jade Empire, if not exactly that. Those games had what I'm talking about: player-forged main character who serves as an avatar for the player, and yet the games had proper cutscenes.

I believe that the next Fallout and Elder Scrolls should be like that. I don't think for a second that it would harm immersion in any way. The player gets to keep playing the game how he wants, either in first-person or third, and he gets to keep making the choices that he wants. He's still forging his character. But when it's time to make the story progress, the game (and its creators) have a wider range of tools to tell it. And these stories are sometimes fascinating, which hurts even more considering how they could be told in a better way. Also, the player would get to see his character more often as he would appear in cutscenes and play them out. That's only a plus to me, seeing how much time people invest in the appearance of their character when creating him at the beginning of the game.
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If I want this I just play a Bioware game ;). I see no reason for Bethesda to change their formula, a lot of people even just want old text based elder scrolls..
 
_Keiichi_ said:
Pretty much.



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(You know, the one with the cliff racers)
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And while I see your point, I don't think it'd fit. I'm pretty happy with the way conversations play out in the games right now.
 
Part of the reason they can't do this is because your character is generic. Generic name, generic look designed by you. There is no one protagonist like The Witcher or Nathon Drake to make a sort of narrative out of. That's why you get called generic names like Dragonborn or Vault Hunter when it's unknown by the other NPC's exactly who the protagonist is.
 
Lol, Bethesda should worry about making games that work properly on a technical level before they even consider adding something superfluous like cutscenes.
 
To be honest, that would be one of the last things I would want in an Elder Scrolls game.

Then again, I generally hate cutscenes in games, especially when there's 5 minutes of gameplay then a cutscene, then 10 more, then another cutscene, etc. It feels so forced in most games and ruins immersion, flow and that feeling of freedom that a series like Elder Scrolls tries to emphasize.
 
If anything I think the game should be moving in the opposite direction. It's cheaper and insanely easier to implement non-voiced scenes without hand picked camera angles and I think they could create a shitton more dialog without having to worry about that mess. The quest options and dialog choices in Skyrim were waaaay too limited.
 
I don't know about full on movie-like cut-scenes, but they definitely should do something about the god awful talking heads they got right now. First-person cut-scenes can work nicely and can look good.
 
No cutscenes.

Better animations (that don't look like an early PS2 game)
Better combat

Better combat with animations. Seriously why where all the yarls in the exact same position without moving an inch? I was totally put off by that. I want people to move like they are alive and not so rigid like they are being stapled to planks.
 
Aside from specific controlled events such as the intro and major in-game events, cut scenes would be quite problematic in the ES. Having total control over my character's actions is one of my central interests in the game, and the moment that happens in a cut scene, the series would not be the same.
 
BigDug13 said:
Part of the reason they can't do this is because your character is generic. Generic name, generic look designed by you. There is no one protagonist like The Witcher or Nathon Drake to make a sort of narrative out of. That's why you get called generic names like Dragonborn or Vault Hunter when it's unknown by the other NPC's exactly who the protagonist is.
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You're supposed to give your character meaning and interest with your imagination, your style, your actions, etc. You make your own story in elder scrolls. As opposed to the movie-like (and thus more linear) approach of games like The Witcher or Uncharted.

gioGAF said:
Lol, Bethesda should worry about making games that work properly on a technical level before they even consider adding something superfluous like cutscenes.
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Their technical problems arise when they try to overachieve. When trying to simulate and remember too many damn things at once, things break. Cutscenes aren't really that ground breaking or difficult to implement. I do think though that Bethesda should send a ninja or two into rockstar's GTA headquarters and steal all their secrets and their programmers.
 
they just need to work on the animations. They all act and look like soulless robots. Hard to get immersed when everyone looks at you with that blank, glossy-eyed stare in every single context.
 
Um, you kind of ARE the narrative in a Bethesda RPG. Cutscenes would be needless and dumb. They don't need it like JRPGs, which rely on them to carry the turgid gameplay along.
 
A better way to deliver them to the player would be great, I agree, but cutscenes though? Yeah, that's not Elder Scrolls.
 
I like that the game doesn't rip you out into cutscenes regularly. Why make it like other, safer games?

But it would be nice if random npcs had AI which kept them from wandering into major scenes, like a conversation with a king, and randomly bumping into people and spouting canned ambient dialog you've heard before that is somehow louder than anything else and makes you miss the main story dialog/exposition. Basically, get rid of drunk npcs.
 
I think it's just fine as it is. How they handle these sections could be refined, but I much prefer not having controls constantly ripped from me.
 
Cutscenes would be great for giving your character some more personality. That's one thing I liked about Dragons Dogma. I just love it to see my own created hero react to certain stuff happening in the story.

But I can also live with no cutscenes. Although, what I really didn't like is that it doesn't even had credits at the end of the questline. Iirc, even Fallout 3 had them and it feels more like the closure of a story.
 
I'd like some. Not scattered all around, but at least like three for the major plot points. When I beat Skyrim I was so let down with how little happened.
 
Valve manages just fine with first person narrative, as does Irrational.

It's a problem with Bethesda, not the genre.
 
No.

Bethesda RPGs like Fallout and TES should NEVER have separate cutscenes, as they totally break immersion. The only cutscene that's acceptable is the one that's done for the openings of the Fallout games, that set the scene and have Ron Perlman saying "War. War never changes."
 
When it comes to RPGs, I want to PLAY the character, but not WATCH the character. I can see cutscenes for games with 'levels' as a way to transition between them, but when it comes to open-world games there are no levels... Events should just happen and my characters have the option to influence them as they occur. Removing my control serves only to alienate me from events. When stuff happens I should feel engaged... not a spectator.

In other words, let me play the games instead of watching them.
 
I don't like the idea. I feel like it would ruin the game; I always felt that the games excelled at telling the story of the world just by exploring it. I generally don't like cutscenes and largely avoid games with them.
 
Cheech said:
Um, you kind of ARE the narrative in a Bethesda RPG. Cutscenes would be needless and dumb. They don't need it like JRPGs, which rely on them to carry the turgid gameplay along.
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Wow, what?
 
I feel like people are confusing cutscenes with reactive and impactful narrative.

I don't think Bethesda games need cutscenes so much as they need more elements like...The destruction of Kvatch, Megaton, and...I guess Helgin is Skyrims? I remember being fairly underwhelmed that the culmination of the civil war and conquest of Solitude was the awning over a well being knocked over. Real 'Yes, we won but at what cost?' moment there.

Of course, those kinds of things seem like they really strain the engine and the resources they have available so it's understandable why they don't have a lot of them.
 
You don't go to TES for that shit. You should never have to leave first person view in a TES game, that is kinda the point. The games are about exploring and making your own storys, a heavy handed cinematic campaign with sweeping camera pans etc in the middle of it would be counterproductive. If you want that go pre-order The Witcher 3, that is a cinematic story focused game with an open world on the side. TES should stick to what makes the series good in the first place.
 
No no no this is a terrible idea.

However they could use some improvements in character animations without a doubt, and voice acting in some cases.
 
Servizio said:
I feel like people are confusing cutscenes with reactive and impactful narrative.

I don't think Bethesda games need cutscenes so much as they need more elements like...The destruction of Kvatch, Megaton, and...I guess Helgin is Skyrims? I remember being fairly underwhelmed that the culmination of the civil war and conquest of Solitude was the awning over a well being knocked over. Real 'Yes, we won but at what cost?' moment there.

Of course, those kinds of things seem like they really strain the engine and the resources they have available so it's understandable why they don't have a lot of them.
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More game play, less expensive cutscenes. Cutscenes cost way more than just adding additional content.
 
GreatestHits said:
You're supposed to give your character meaning and interest with your imagination, your style, your actions, etc. You make your own story in elder scrolls. As opposed to the movie-like (and thus more linear) approach of games like The Witcher or Uncharted.



Their technical problems arise when they try to overachieve. When trying to simulate and remember too many damn things at once, things break. Cutscenes aren't really that ground breaking or difficult to implement. I do think though that Bethesda should send a ninja or two into rockstar's GTA headquarters and steal all their secrets and their programmers.
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I understand that, I wasn't knocking the style. I'm just saying you can't really do ordinary cutscene style cinematics when your character could be anybody and doesn't have a name that can be voiced by the NPC's. It's part of the main issue with voice acting now being required in games. Instead of calling your character by name, you're instead called something different like "Vault Hunter" or "Dragonborn".

In a game like Morrowind you can be called by name because it is text. That's not possible anymore and makes these games feel more disconnected from your protagonist.
 
In the sense that they need scenes, I'm not sure I disagree. There are plenty of times in Elder Scrolls where there is considerable exposition just thrown at the player while NPCs walk around awkwardly. Take when you hit one of those temple things with the engravings in Skyrim and you have someone interpret and read the carvings. You really do just stand there while the other characters stand there. They could be doing more interesting things with the camera than they are.

In the sense that they need to cut, well, they already do. As soon as you enter dialog, there is a very clear loss of control of the camera. Look at how Mass Effect makes shooting basic conversations interesting. Elder Scrolls is still very far behind.

"immersion" lmao. People use this word to mean all sorts of dumb shit.
 
I feel the same way. Being preached at in first person by a stiff looking animatronic character is just a terrible way to impart narrative.

But what can they do? They can't remove the first-person perspective - this defines their games. I think they could script better animations for the people talking to you, that's the most obvious thing. I'm just not sure how to get around such a fundamental problem with the FPRPG. Mass Effects conversations feel light years ahead because of this issue and because your character isn't mute. Yet Bethesda games are more immersive in general for the same reasons...

It's a tough one.
 
Griss said:
I feel the same way. Being preached at in first person by a stiff looking animatronic character is just a terrible way to impart narrative.
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i much preferred the way Dragon Age Origins did it, the characters got to actually move around and interact with stuff. i guess thats what the OP means by proper cutscenes tho
 
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