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[MikeDip]

So in the movie a central theme is Aladdin keeps wanting to tell the princess he is not a real prince, but doesn't in time. My problem with this is: he is a real prince. Why is this conflict there?

He didn't wish to look like a prince. He wished to be a prince. Did the genie mess it up? I mean in the prince ali song we clearly see some princely qualities. Did those things disappear right after the song? If so, why. Abu didn't revert, why did everything else. He didn't wish for fake prince things to impress the princess. He wished to BE a prince. And then he became a prince.

When jaffar sings in the prince ali reprise he said "whose lies were too good to last"
Where the fuck is the lie.

The genie gave him magic powers and he uses them to change Aladdins clothes, does he think his powers are a lie too? Plus why would just changing his prince clothes take away Aladdin's princehood. Again he didn't wish to look like a price he wished to be one. So what if he looks poor again, it's no different than when jasmine went out in rags at the beginning of the film.

I mean I guess the whole thing can be constructed as an old money vs new money thing, but it just seems odd considering it only seems to apply to Aladdin and not jaffar.

Any help here? This has constantly been on my mind for years.

 

[xxracerxx]

Because in his heart he knew he was a street beggar and not a prince. A genie can work miracles, but cannot change who you are on the inside.

 

[snacknuts]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1ikxge/aladdin_did_the_genie_actually_make_aladdin_a/

 

[Veritigo_X]

Was Ababwa even a real place? Did the genie create an entirely new kingdom somewhere with people that look at "Prince Ali" as their monarch?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Having money/status/servants = prince

When it's all taken away, he's back to being a street rat.

 

[dave is ok]

Having money/stature/servants = prince

When it's all taken away, he's back to being a street rat.

I don't buy that

 

[Zalman]

It's a matter of principle. He's a fake prince who only became a prince to marry the princess. He didn't tell her who he really is. He was pretending to be someone he wasn't.

 

[bronson]

I always took it as Jafar taking away his princehood with his new wizard powers.

What bothers me more: Al agonizes over his last wish at the end, when he could EASILY just hand the lamp to Jasmine for a sec and solve all their problems.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

I don't buy that

If only they'd look closer

 

[MikeDip]

Was Ababwa even a real place? Did the genie create an entirely new kingdom somewhere with people that look at "Prince Ali" as their monarch?

Of course! It's what he wished for

 

[BumRush]

Because in his heart he knew he was a street beggar and not a prince. A genie can work miracles, but cannot change who you are on the inside.

Damn.

Well said.

 

[Joni]

He didn't consider himself a prince because he only wished for it, no matter the existence of a genie created kingdom. If you for instance win a spelling prize through dumb luck, you might not think yourself a true champion.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Pretty sure genie/djinn mythology usually involves them interpreting wishes however they like if they're not super specific

"I wish I was a prince..."
For a day?
For the duration of a song?
In appearance?
In name alone?

 

[MikeDip]

It's a matter of principle. He's a fake prince who only became a prince to marry the princess. He didn't tell her who he really is. He was pretending to be someone he wasn't.

No no. All irrelevant. When he wished to be a prince he became a prince. That's how the genie magic works.

 

[Chariot]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1ikxge/aladdin_did_the_genie_actually_make_aladdin_a/

I dig that.

Hmm... 'Al' wishes to be a prince. Genie conjures up the trappings of princehood, the subjects, the rare and exotic animals, the wealth... But behind the scenes (perhaps even unknown to Genie himself), he's also rewritten history, because Aladdin had wished to be a prince, not to appear to be a prince. But because Aladdin's father was a deadbeat dad, absentee father, and probably a criminal, the best that the magic could do and have it still remain plausible was to make Cassim the King of Thieves (a king among deadbeats and criminals).

 

[Veritigo_X]

Of course! It's what he wished for

I guess creating life wasn't part of the 3 rules the genie laid out in the beginning. What happened to these people after the movie? They must've been so lost without their leader. I can only imagine the famine and disease that ravaged that poor kingdom.

 

[MikeDip]

He didn't consider himself a prince because he only wished for it, no matter the existence of a genie created kingdom. If you for instance win a spelling prize through dumb luck, you might not think yourself a true champion.

Then the wish didn't work, the genie is not magical, and everything that happened with jaffar shouldn't have happened. The genie clearly laid out the wish rules. Aladdin's wish was in the boundaries.

 

[BertramCooper]

Maybe he turned him into Prince, not a prince.

 

[Joni]

Then the wish didn't work, the genie is not magical, and everything that happened with jaffar shouldn't have happened. The genie clearly laid out the wish rules. Aladdin's wish was in the boundaries.

He didn't wish to be born a prince, which would have accomplished him thinking he really was one. He wanted to be one from that moment on.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

If only they'd look closer

Would they see a poor boy...?

 

[epmode]

Just a little snack, guys.

 

[MikeDip]

He didn't wish to be born a prince, which would have accomplished him thinking he really was one. He wanted to be one from that moment on.

If the necessary qualifications of princehood needed changes to his past then the wish should have been able to cover those too. If it didn't it means the wish wasn't fulfilled.

 

[cameron]

Maybe he turned him into Prince, not a prince.

 

[Chariot]

Maybe he turned him into Prince, not a prince.

So in the end he was the prince formerly known as Prince?

 

[John Kowalski]

he was a fake and he knew it, there's no blue in his blood

 

[Daingurse]

I just watched Aladdin recently. It felt like he just couldn't fully accept the wish. It didn't seem to sit right with him, I don't think he felt it was deservrd or earned. He was made to be a prince, but was neither emotionally or mentally prepared.

 

[May16]

Would they see a poor boy...?

No siree.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Pretty sure genie/djinn mythology usually involves them interpreting wishes however they like if they're not super specific

"I wish I was a prince..."
For a day?
For the duration of a song?
In appearance?
In name alone?

I feel like this covers it. I feel like you need to be absolutely 100% specific to get the wish you really want, otherwise the satisfaction of the wish request is down to the genie. If he had said "I wish to be a fully recognised country owning prince for the rest of my life" he would have got that, but instead it was very vague

 

[MikeDip]

I just watched Aladdin recently. It felt like he just couldn't fully accept the wish, probably because it wasn't earned. He was made to be a prince, but was neither emotionally or mentally prepared.

But that's irrelevant, he is still a prince.

Like if jaffar wasn't mentally ready to be a genie does it matter? Nope, that mafucka still got sucked into his lamp.

 

[Alavard]

I think the question boils down to 'what constitutes a prince?' And, more specifically, what constitutes a prince in the mind of Aladdin? Remember, Aladdin himself probably knows little of politics. Given his state of poverty, he probably considers being a prince just a matter of wealth, respect, and status. He may not know anything about the dynastic requirements.

So, is not possible Genie, in trying to be helpful, uses Aladdin's own interpretation of what it means to be a Prince, and gives him that?

 

[Veritigo_X]

I think the question boils down to 'what constitutes a prince?' And, more specifically, what constitutes a prince in the mind of Aladdin? Remember, Aladdin himself probably knows little of politics. Given his state of poverty, he probably considers being a prince just a matter of wealth, respect, and status. He may not know anything about the dynastic requirements.

So, is not possible Genie, in trying to be helpful, uses Aladdin's own interpretation of what it means to be a Prince, and gives him that?

Genies never use the wish maker's interpretation of the wish. They always try to fuck you over.

 

[Daingurse]

But that's irrelevant, he is still a prince.

Like if jaffar wasn't mentally ready to be a genie does it matter? Nope, that mafucka still got sucked into his lamp.

Doesn't matter if can't even accept that he is one. Makes him effectively not a prince. Perception is reality, and he did not perceive himself to be a prince.

 

[Alavard]

Genies never use the wish maker's interpretation of the wish. They always try to fuck you over.

Classical genies/djinn, yes. But not Genie himself in the Aladdin movie(s). At least not when it comes to Aladdin. He legitimately likes Aladdin, and tries to be helpful when he can, though he also has fun doing it.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Been asking myself this since I'm nine.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Genies never use the wish maker's interpretation of the wish. They always try to fuck you over.

Unless they like you or they're in a good mood, as was the case in this movie. They don't always try to fuck you over, just a good chunk of the time.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Classical genies/djinn, yes. But not Genie himself in the Aladdin movie(s). At least not when it comes to Aladdin. He legitimately likes Aladdin, and tries to be helpful when he can, though he also has fun doing it.

Still wouldn't trust him. He'd fuck over Aladdin in a second if he misspoke while making his wish. He wouldn't go, "before I go about granting this irreversible wish, could you clarify what you meant by this?"

All bets are off after the first movie since Aladdin did him a favor by freeing him.

 

[May16]

I wanna see Aladdin's receipts for these claims made by one of his supporters:
-He faced the galloping hordes, which as we all know, was a hundred bad guys with swords. Did he actually send those goons to their lords?

 

[Aaron Strife]

No siree.

They'd find out...

 

[exfixate]

Why couldn't Aladdin just make his final wish, become a prince again, and then hand the lamp over to Jasmine (or literally anyone else) to free the Genie?

Spoiler

BECAUSE

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Great movie that wouldnt fly today in US cinemas

Arabs and Allah in my Disney! Oh no! Trying to convert my kids!

 

[zeemumu]

Because in his heart he knew he was a street beggar and not a prince. A genie can work miracles, but cannot change who you are on the inside.

Yeah but it's not what's on the inside that's the problem. On the inside he's a good kid. On the outside he's a thief then later a prince.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Why couldn't Aladdin just make his final wish, become a prince again, and then hand the lamp over to Jasmine (or literally anyone else) to free the Genie?

Spoiler

BECAUSE

Maybe the lamp disappears after use? Like the dragon balls.

 

[exfixate]

Maybe the lamp disappears after use? Like the dragon balls.

Jafar used all his wishes, and the lamp remained.

I've thought about this way too much.

 

[The Real Abed]

Classical genies/djinn, yes. But not Genie himself in the Aladdin movie(s). At least not when it comes to Aladdin. He legitimately likes Aladdin, and tries to be helpful when he can, though he also has fun doing it.

Yeah, we're taking about a Disney genie. Not a traditional genie. All traditional versions of Disney stories are always much darker. Genie had no hidden agenda. He just wanted to have fun for the amount of time he was allowed to be out of his lamp.

I always thought it was cheap that Aladdin got cheated out of two of his three wishes though:

1. The first wish was to be a prince. His choice.
2. Second wish however was technically Genie's doing but it was to save Al's life. Technically the Genie didn't have to do anything because Al never made a wish. But since Genie didn't want to spend the rest of eternity on the bottom of the ocean he broke the genie rules. Not Al's choice.
3. Third wish was for Genie's freedom. Al's selfless choice. But you could argue that this one had the best outcome because it basically gave him and Jasmine a super powerful friend who could make all their dreams come true without any strings attached. (Albeit a few months later after Genie finished his vacation and came back.)

If it weren't for the benefit of the third wish's outcome, Al'd have gotten the worst deal ever. But in the end it all worked out.

But another thing that bugs me more is that Jafar was able to steal the Genie from Aladdin before he finished his wishes. Is this something that can happen? Wouldn't it make more sense for a genie to belong solely to the person who found him until his three wishes are granted? (With a tiny loophole for if the owner dies somehow so the genie isn't stuck serving someone who no longer lives) How could Jafar just steal him? Is this actually cannon to established genie lore? Can you actually just take your friends genie lamp and start your own wishing?

What about the rules. Do genies only grant three wishes per person per lifespan or can I use three wishes, give the lamp to my friend then get it back for three more later then trade it off again and keep going back and forth?

And what about Jeannie? Why does she not have to adhere to the three wish rule? Why does Master Nelson get infinite wishes? (None of which he ever asked for nor wanted anyway.)

Maybe the lamp disappears after use? Like the dragon balls.

I doubt the lamp just disappears. Hence Jafar being able to steal it. If it disappeared, I'm sure the rule would be in place that prevented being able to steal it. Also, if it does disappear then what happens to the genie inside? Obviously they aren't freed or else Genie wouldn't be so adamant about wanting to be free because he'd obviously be free when Al is done. Nope. Genie's are bound to the genie code forever until they are freed by their master.

 

[zeemumu]

Jafar used all his wishes, and the lamp remained.

I've thought about this way too much.

I always assumed the only reason it remained was because Aladdin still had a wish.

 

[LosDaddie]

He wasn't a prince. He didn't have any land to rule over.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Yeah, we're taking about a Disney genie. Not a traditional genie. All traditional versions of Disney stories are always much darker. Genie had no hidden agenda. He just wanted to have fun for the amount of time he was allowed to be out of his lamp.

No hidden agenda? Aladdin promised him before he made his first wish that he would use his last wish to make Genie free. He had to keep Aladdin happy (and alive) or else he couldn't be free.

 

[The Real Abed]

I always assumed the only reason it remained was because Aladdin still had a wish.

The logic of that doesn't make sense though because if a genie is only supposed to have one master then Jafar couldn't steal it. If they can have multiple masters then it wouldn't disappear. Genies are basically prisoners for life. And lamps can stick around for centuries. If there was this looming fear that as soon as your master finishes his third wish you (as a genie) would just disappear then it'd be a different story all together. Lamps disappearing implies one master and one master only. But Jafar stole it before Al finished. Therefore the Genie could potentially have hundreds of masters over the course of a millennia. As long as someone can find the lamp later.

If it weren't for the usual greed of other potential masters, someone could set it up so that everyone in the city gets a crack at the lamp. But that would get messy sooooo fast as wishes start conflicting.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

I interpreted it as, he gave him the entourage and wealth, and made everyone believe that Ali Ababwa was a real prince of a real kingdom. Then Jafar revealed the truth and the illusion was broken. So the third wish that Aladdin wanted to make, to become a prince again, was basically to remake the illusion and remove everyone's memories of finding out the truth.

But, it's probably not worth thinking about too deeply... The logic of who is the genie's master at any given time and how many wishes they get is kind of screwy. Fantastic film though.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yeah, we're taking about a Disney genie. Not a traditional genie. All traditional versions of Disney stories are always much darker. Genie had no hidden agenda. He just wanted to have fun for the amount of time he was allowed to be out of his lamp.

edit: Jafar did wish to be a genie after all. I'm a bit rusty when it comes to my Aladdin knowledge it seems, still I feel like Disney Genie still shows some signs of the classic Djinns, just less malevolent in his mischief. He did turn Abu into an elephant for no reason