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Bill Gates loses it over Apple ads

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Why does Bill Gates even bother answering those questions, when he could simply laugh?

Apple is catering to gadget whores, who like nothing better than to buy already existing technology, wrapped in nice white plastic, for triple the price.

Apple know they will never be able to win the desktop market, so they focus on a few select user groups. These campaigns are exactly tailored for those people who buy into the shit that buying Apple products is cool and creative and all that bs.

It does not matter if OSX does this and that better or worse than Vista, everybody wants Windows to be the primary desktop platform, so it will always stay that way. Also why even waste energy comparing the different operating systems? It's all like a huge toolbox, you go and grab the tools that will cover your needs to be productive, it's that simple.
 
m0dus said:
Tell your friends and family to stop visiting the donkey-show websites, and opening mail from princes in nigeria, and I think they'll be fine.
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the fact that the computer can even be infected by visiting certain websites speaks volumes about windows xp's 'security'. still, despite what bionic77 says, i found windows defender combined with AVG free to be pretty effective.
 
I love using my Mac. I always hated them before I actually got one, mainly because their one button mice are awful to use. Get a new mouse and it's wonderful. It's nice to just have a computer I don't have to worry about being ****ed up, no matter what I do to it.

I know people say Windows works fine if your smart about it, if you do all these steps blah blah blah. And I completely agree, especially since SP2 came out for XP. But there are still little problems with stupid little things. Like reinstalling a scanner driver 5 times and having it still not work. Or having Adobe auto-update kill your parents computer, driving them insane until you come over to uninstall and reinstall acrobat reader.

I'm not a Mac nerd, I wouldn't try to convince people it's better, or act like im different from anyone else. I think the most defensive people are Windows users. I have a friend (well, used to be, not really anymore) who's an IT guy, and I saw him at the mall at an Apple store. I told him I got a Macbook, and he's giving me shit grilling me on why with lots of smirks on his face. I remember saying something about how I put Windows on it via bootcamp, and he goes "PSCH, WHY'D YOU GET A MAC IF YOUR JUST GONNA PUT WINDOWS ON IT LAWLZ!" I told him it's because I didn't know if I would need it considering I had never used a Mac before. He was such a jackass about it. It turns out I don't need Windows, I uninstalled it to free up some hard drive space, but seriously I think Windows freaks are more annoying (ok, maybe just almost as annoying) as Mac freaks. At least Mac freaks have the whole root for the underdog thing going for them.

Anyways, I noticed people talking about how OSX is fast on old machines. That's a lie. My girlfriend has a Macbook with 512 ram (hardly old) and it's ridiculously slow. Apple really shouldn't ship machines with 512 ram because she doesn't know anything about computers and now she just thinks Macs are slow.

I have to use old iMac 500mhz G3's with 512 ram for the school newspaper, and opening Safari, Word, and Incopy takes about 15 minutes. I need to open all those every time I want to get any work done. They're running 10.4 in there, which is supposedly faster than older versions of the OS. I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.

BTW, I know that machine would suck ass at running Vista as well (and probably XP).

Oh, and my favorite program you can't get on a Mac is DVDShrink, and my favorite you can't get on Windows (at least with a GUI) is Handbrake. Everything has it's strengths and weaknesses.
 
mrkgoo said:
Interesting read, but while that may be true, it's also true that you could probably cobble together a really cheap pc if you don't go Dell.

I guess atleast with PCs, you have that option.
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You really can't compare prefabs to non-prefabs.
 
ShowDog said:
It turns out I don't need Windows, I uninstalled it to free up some hard drive space...
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Around the same for me.

The only two issues I'm having right now is DVR-MS HD support and NTFS support. VLC doesn't play recorded HD very well (video lags audio) so I BootCamp into XP to play my recorded TV.

I use Parallels to quickly boot into a virtual XP as well to write to an NTFS drive if need be.

Having two XP's around only takes up 6 gigs of space or so... I can sacrifice that for some convenience.
 
julls said:
the fact that the computer can even be infected by visiting certain websites speaks volumes about windows xp's 'security'. still, despite what bionic77 says, i found windows defender combined with AVG free to be pretty effective.
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Well, the statement was little more than a joke--but hey, if some people wish to take it THAT seriously, be my guest.

I've set up 4 PCs at my parents' place that they use of all their web-surfing and document creation needs. 2 of the computer run Xandros, 2 of them run Windows Xp SP2. Suffice it to say, the Xandros systems never contracted anything in the way of viruses. Interestingly enough, the XP systems haven't had any issues either, either in the way of viruses or ad-ware. The fact of the matter is I've actually managed to train my family to stay away from unsafe websites and emails. Norton Corporate, AdAware and Spybot run routinely every month on both their laptops (again, both XP machines) and with the exception of tracking cookies, both have remained relatively clean the last 2 years. Am I saying XP is more secure than Linux or MacOS? not hardly. But for the flexibility it offers, and the cost-advantage the PC has over the Mac (My dad's computer is almost 5 years old, yet I need only to drop a new video card and some extra ram in there and it's Vista ready), it's a small price to have to remind them to stay away from unfamiliar emails and websites. Interestingly enough, drivers have NEVER been an issue, and my dad is a total gadget-freak when it comes to attaching stuff to the computer (he buys a new cheapo digital camera/desktop printer-scanner combo literally every other month, installs everything himself without mishap or calls to me for help. And he's not exactly what I'd call computer savvy.)

In the end, I would rather have absolute control over my computer's hardware, at the cost of having a less secure OS, than to give my operating system total dictum over what components go into my machine. That's really why this whole platform debate is utter nonesense, in my eyes. It stands as little more than a matter of preference, and one "operating system" isn't superior to the other, so long as it suits your needs overall.
 
Oh boy, I could tell this would be bad just by clicking on this thread. I have been using Vista Ultimate all day, but right now I type to you from OS X Tiger. I can honestly say there are some things in Vista that are nicer. However, functionality-wise I still think OS X takes the cake.

I like the new Windows Explorer (which kind of reminds me of Finder...only with more intuition)

What kind of annoys me about Bill's comments towards the end is how he seems to act like the reason Vista took so long to build is because of all the security features. That, and he seems to be putting up the idea that a lot of Vista's features were not directly from/inspired by OS X. I don't really care what he says...after one day, I can spot quite a few similarities.

Still, for Windows (which is usually a gaming platform for me), it's damned good.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I love the ads because it's not "Mac vs. Windows" it's more of a mentality of "Fanboys vs. Mainstream consumers".

That's why the Mac ads piss off GAF.
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Fixed.

And this is really the point, I suppose... I mean, a lot of people here piss and moan about "intellectual superiority" from Mac users, but then turn around and call PC users idiots because they aren't smart enough to micromanage their OS files or juggle multiple security apps or overclock their rigs... or even assemble their own rigs. Something seems fundamentally wrong with that whole idea, wouldn't you say?
 
I've only had this Mac for a month and it's probably already been r00ted every single day :((

Why was I not informed of this security emergency earlier?
 
Microsoft should launch an ad that shows 2 years into the future where the same existing pc is getting upgraded for only 100 dollars while a mac owner needs to pay for a new Mac everytime the technology is out dated.
 
BlindN-Fan said:
Microsoft should launch an ad that shows 2 years into the future where the same existing pc is getting upgraded for only 100 dollars while a mac owner needs to pay for a new Mac everytime the technology is out dated.
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While I value the ability to upgrade my PC whenever I want (and switch out pretty much any piece of hardware), you realize for the common user upgrades are very rare...maybe things like RAM, but that can be easily done in Macs, too. In fact, I don't think the majority of users even format. The computer gets slow after a while of the not maintaining their computer and loading on the poop, and they buy a new computer eventually.
 
BlindN-Fan said:
Microsoft should launch an ad that shows 2 years into the future where the same existing pc is getting upgraded for only 100 dollars while a mac owner needs to pay for a new Mac everytime the technology is out dated.
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Unless you're obsessed with having the absolute newest tech when it comes out, you can use a Mac for at least half a decade. The same goes for a non-crappy, non-budget Windows platform. If my Windows computer were still running, it would be 3 years old and it could still run for the next 2-3 years.
 
Phobophile said:
Unless you're obsessed with having the absolute newest tech when it comes out, you can use a Mac for at least half a decade. The same goes for a non-crappy, non-budget Windows platform. If my Windows computer were still running, it would be 3 years old and it could still run for the next 2-3 years.
Click to expand...

But the fact you can have the absolute newest tech when it comes out without having to buy a new PC is noteworthy.
 
mrkgoo said:
Interesting read, but while that may be true, it's also true that you could probably cobble together a really cheap pc if you don't go Dell.
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Which then means that you're expecting Apple to compete in a segment of the market it isn't even in. And that would also mean that Dell is super expensive, because they aren't as cheap as what you could build yourself.
 
Draft said:
This statement, and the ubiquitous "Macs are better for photo/movie/music" editing, I have never really understood. Or I guess I understand them, but they're never qualified. But they seem to be fairly accepted arguments in the Mac vs. PC debate.

Like, you enjoy using your Mac, but you don't enjoy using your PC? I don't get it. Like, what is more enjoyable? The way Mac's launch programs? The way their file system is set up?

Conversely, what is chore like in Windows that's enjoyable on a Mac? Is saving stuff tougher in Windows? Do you find that changing the wallpaper exhausts your clicking finger more in XP?

I just don't get it.
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The best way to put it this: for most people, the PC is enjoyed for what you can make it do. Macs tend to be enjoyed just as much for what they do as how they do it, because most of it doesn't require any thought. You want to do something, and you do it. Your files are pretty easy to find, not a lot of jumbled messes when it comes to application files strewn across Hell's half-acre... by comparison, troubleshooting an application on OS X usually takes about 2 minutes, as opposed to 10 or more in Windows. Less to do, less to worry about. And it's not that Windows is tough to use, but to get the MOST out of it, you usually have to fight with it, and there's no fight with a Mac because OS X is just BEGGING for you to be a power-user since everything's all laid out for you.

In terms of visual and graphically-technological advances, OS X has always been in the lead, and 10.5's Core Animation continues the trend by offering average-Joe developers all the tools to make pretty applications in line with Apple's own software. With PCs, you can tell when a piece of software is cobbled together by some 16-year-old with some spare time. With a Mac? Not so much. (although, I will admit, there's a lot of ugly-as-sin widgets out there... curse Satan for Dashcode, as there are surely more to come) So yeah, the idea of having my ENTIRE computing experience look enjoyable is another nice touch.

And as for chores in Windows? Mac OS X has Automator, so I gotta say that I'm totally spoiled by having my computer do a lot of labor-intensive file management and other such things for me using workflows that I can set up in under a minute.

It's no BIG thing, as Windows and OS X are fundamentally similar... it's like having a barrel that you put pennies into... doesn't seem like much one by one, but you put it all together and those pennies are suddenly an awesome chunk of change. Get what I mean?

mrkgoo said:
Interesting read, but while that may be true, it's also true that you could probably cobble together a really cheap pc if you don't go Dell.

I guess atleast with PCs, you have that option.
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Thing is, as a PC BUILDER, you're always throwing new parts in it eventually anyways, so you don't actually know when something is honest-to-goodness "out of date". In my experience with Macs, you can keep them running the latest OS for up to 7 years or more without much hassle or performance issues, which is what you want from a computer given what you pay for it. Heck, the only reason I retired my 9-year-old Performa 6400 was because I couldn't get it to run OS X... and the monitor released its magic blue smoke, too, so...
 
The Faceless Master said:
you wanna know what surgery is?

replacing a dead hard drive on an ibook g4

(based on a true story)

that's the only thing i wanted to stop in and post really...
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But why did you chose to post old instructions for a discontinued product?

Why not try it on a Mac you can actually buy now? Completely different story.

Here's how quick and easy it is to replace both the RAM and HD on a MacBook. I know. I did both tasks on mine in less than 10 minutes with only a screwdriver:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6ckjy-gdY



tedtropy said:
Holy hell that's ridiculous...
Click to expand...

Now it's ridiculously fast and easy.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
But why did you chose to post old instructions for a discontinued product?

Why not try it on a Mac you can actually buy now? Completely different story.

Here's how quick and easy it is to replace both the RAM and HD on a MacBook. I know. I did both tasks on mine in less than 10 minutes with only a screwdriver:
Click to expand...
I hope that the next iteration of MacBook Pro makes the hard drive a do-it-yourself part in the same way the MacBooks are. That just rocks.
 
Terrell said:
The best way to put it this: for most people, the PC is enjoyed for what you can make it do. Macs tend to be enjoyed just as much for what they do as how they do it, because most of it doesn't require any thought. You want to do something, and you do it. Your files are pretty easy to find, not a lot of jumbled messes when it comes to application files strewn across Hell's half-acre... by comparison, troubleshooting an application on OS X usually takes about 2 minutes, as opposed to 10 or more in Windows. Less to do, less to worry about. And it's not that Windows is tough to use, but to get the MOST out of it, you usually have to fight with it, and there's no fight with a Mac because OS X is just BEGGING for you to be a power-user since everything's all laid out for you.

In terms of visual and graphically-technological advances, OS X has always been in the lead, and 10.5's Core Animation continues the trend by offering average-Joe developers all the tools to make pretty applications in line with Apple's own software. With PCs, you can tell when a piece of software is cobbled together by some 16-year-old with some spare time. With a Mac? Not so much. (although, I will admit, there's a lot of ugly-as-sin widgets out there... curse Satan for Dashcode, as there are surely more to come) So yeah, the idea of having my ENTIRE computing experience look enjoyable is another nice touch.

And as for chores in Windows? Mac OS X has Automator, so I gotta say that I'm totally spoiled by having my computer do a lot of labor-intensive file management and other such things for me using workflows that I can set up in under a minute.

It's no BIG thing, as Windows and OS X are fundamentally similar... it's like having a barrel that you put pennies into... doesn't seem like much one by one, but you put it all together and those pennies are suddenly an awesome chunk of change. Get what I mean?


Thing is, as a PC BUILDER, you're always throwing new parts in it eventually anyways, so you don't actually know when something is honest-to-goodness "out of date". In my experience with Macs, you can keep them running the latest OS for up to 7 years or more without much hassle or performance issues, which is what you want from a computer given what you pay for it. Heck, the only reason I retired my 9-year-old Performa 6400 was because I couldn't get it to run OS X... and the monitor released its magic blue smoke, too, so...
Click to expand...

I like this post. Well thought out and I agree with it.
 
So a little defensive = losing it now? This reminds me of those people that constantly bug the shit out of someone until the point where they get pissed off, then come back with "jeez, why so serious..I was only kidding"

no shit Gates is going to become defensive hearing the same exact line of questioning thousands of times. anyone would.
 
The answer to the "why I find macs more fun to use" question.

To install an app you drag into into the Apps folder. To delete, you drag it to the trashcan.

I don't have to deal with spyware or viruses.

There's no regular maintenance that isn't automated (and in many cases, automatic in the background).

When I search, it's way faster than in Windows.

I have less crashes and hangs with Mac OS (not that frequent in Windows either, butit happens)

Plus Quicksilver means I never have to hunt for a program or file.


This is not meant to be some absolute stance, but an answer to the questioned asked above about why somebody would find a mac more pleasant to use.
 
A few things I want to address in this ****ing goat rodeo of a thread:

sangreal said:
That doesn't make sense, since MS bought the GUI concept from Apple (which is why Apple lost their lawsuit on this matter). Microsoft licensed the rights to Apple's GUI elements for "present and future software programs" in exchange for Microsoft's commitment to continue selling office for macs and to delay the release of Excel (so as to not compete with MultiPlan).
Click to expand...

Source this, please, because it seems to defy everything I remember reading growing up in household that had a subscription to nearly every computer magazine known to man. Difficulty: No Wikipedia.


Anyhow, a few points:
1) Bill Gates (for the millionth time) is talking about Vista security. That said, given Microsoft's past claims of securing their operating systems, I'm going to take this with a grain of salt so big I could use it as my desk.

1') I find it intellectually dishonest for Microsoft to ever talk about innovation. They're late to the party on operating system functionality, web browser functionality, "lifestyle application" functionality, general usability and security. For everyone defending Microsoft in this thread, please note that their dominance is single-handedly the result of a poorly-worded contract, IBM's early success with PCs in the 80s, inertia and paranoia. Innovators, well...they innovate. Microsoft, at the end of the day, follows.

2) We're all ignoring the point that unless you're either a masochist or buying a pre-built new computer, there's no reason for you touch Vista right now. Beta-tested it might have been, there are still going to be issues with the initial release version. If XP's working for you, just stick with it; Vista really ISN'T going anywhere.

3) The Mac ads: I get a little laugh out of them, as should all of you. Computers aren't football, if you have a gut feeling of "allegiance," I urge you to just turn the thing off and spend some time outside.
 
Phobophile said:
I like this post. Well thought out and I agree with it.
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Thanks. It just makes sense to me, and totally explains why people think nothing of OS X when using it for a mere 10 minutes to make a personal judgment on the total package, because most of its advantages are things that you can't really appreciate until you've had some extended use with it. That's why people who bought Macs seem to really like OS X after owning the computer for over 2 weeks, as evidenced in this very thread.
 
Squeak said:
Don't you think that's a bit worrying, to say the least, considering their position?
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is there a rule somewhere that states that unless you innovate and do something incredibly awesome you can't be number one?

no?

then i refer you back to my original question.

so?
 
TemplaerDude said:
is there a rule somewhere that states that unless you innovate and do something incredibly awesome you can't be number one?

no?
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I just think it's very weird that with 30 years in the business and being one of the richest corporations in the world, that you can't come up with one single breakthrough?

Question has to be asked, how did they get where they are now? By riding on other peoples back, discarding them as used booster rockets when they weren't needed anymore? By selling 3rd rate products at a premium, that people call "the best", because they don't know any better?
 
TemplaerDude said:
is there a rule somewhere that states that unless you innovate and do something incredibly awesome you can't be number one?

no?

then i refer you back to my original question.

so?
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The "lack of innovation" is a tangent, except if you think about what Bill Gates said in that interview. If you're not an innovator, and you accuse another company of stealing "your" ideas, doesn't that sound fishy?

(I can't believe I'm bothering to respond in this POS thread. WTF)
 
Squeak said:
I just think it's very weird that with 30 years in the business and being one of the richest corporations in the world, that you can't come up with one single breakthrough?

Question has to be asked, how did they get where they are now? By riding on other peoples back, discarding them as used booster rockets when they weren't needed anymore? By selling 3rd rate products at a premium, that people call "the best", because they don't know any better?
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You have to looks past the individual aspects. Sometimes the innovation is bringintogether all the good ideas out there. Point, Nintendo hardly created a lot of the technologies they get credited for, but they DO deserve the credit for bringing it to video gaming.

Having said that, something has to be said a bout a company that has 95% market share when they borrow ideas off companies that only have 3% - though I'm not sure exactly what that would be...
 
TemplaerDude said:
all i see up there is a big load of opinion.
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It's scary to see how it's so popular today to proclaim well documented fact as opinion or "theory" nowadays, the moonlanding, evolution, holocaust etc.
 
Squeak said:
It's scary to see how it's so popular today to proclaim well documented fact as opinion or "theory" nowadays, the moonlanding, evolution, holocaust etc.
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... i'm not going to question... no i am, you're comparing this to those? holy shit ****s.

anyways, i don't see anywhere where it is a "well documented fact" that windows is a "3rd rate system" and not the "best."

i really don't see what you're trying to prove here.
 
mrkgoo said:
Having said that, something has to be said a bout a company that has 95% market share when they borrow ideas off companies that only have 3% - though I'm not sure exactly what that would be...
Click to expand...

Technically, it's called a Catch-22. (Or: Why Microsoft Sabotaged Java.)
 
TemplaerDude said:
... i'm not going to question... no i am, you're comparing this to those? holy shit ****s.

anyways, i don't see anywhere where it is a "well documented fact" that windows is a "3rd rate system" and not the "best."

i really don't see what you're trying to prove here.
Click to expand...

I'm as hardcore an Apple Zealot as you get, but I tend to agree with what you say.
 
TemplaerDude said:
... i'm not going to question... no i am, you're comparing this to those? holy shit ****s.

anyways, i don't see anywhere where it is a "well documented fact" that windows is a "3rd rate system" and not the "best."

i really don't see what you're trying to prove here.
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Of course I'm not comparing d****ss! That was just random examples of a general trend.
Read up on your history FFS!! Or else you a not ready to discuss this seriously.
Just another semirandom fact: ~30 years ago this what made at MIT. It's still vastly superior to anything we have today.
 
Squeak said:
Of course I'm not comparing d****ss! That was just random examples of a general trend.
Read up on you history FFS!! Or else you a not ready to discuss this seriously.
Just another semirandom fact: ~30 years ago this what made a MIT. It's still vastly superior to anything we have today.
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well if you're so enlightened, tell me what of history is... proving whatever it is you are saying.
 
Squeak said:
Fact of the matter is microsoft hasn't made one single significant invention or breakthrough product, ever.
Click to expand...

First optical mouse that didn't require a special pad.

First ergonomic keyboard available to the general public.
 
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