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Bioshock Infinite, overrated and repeative [spoilers]
- Thread starter Nilaul
- Start date
How do you figure? She makes it pretty clear that she is telling the Vox that Booker is a Comstock imposter. Why wouldn't they try to kill him? It's not like Booker is reasoning with these people.
Also, you gotta remember, the Vox you hear about when you first arrive, the vox you see during the gun running missions and hte Vox you fight are 3 seperate groups (narratively). The Daisy Fitzgerald you meet on the Queen's airship is NOT the same one that tries to kill you later on.
RedAssedApe
Banned
The atmosphere, art direction, sound, and story were all top notch and I think that's where most of the praise is for. A game that makes you want to keep playing to see all the sights or unravel a mystery often will get it a pass on Gameplay.
With that being said, the gameplay isn't amazing but its serviceable. I think they scaled back a lot of what they were trying to do as evidenced by the earlier gameplay demos. Final battle was a chore for me because of the performance issues on the 360. Thing would chug along at times making it hard to aim. Also was it just me or could you not attach to a skyline attach point if you were jumping? Also wish you could use vigors while skylining.
Makes me think that they might have been handicapped by having to make this work for current-gen consoles.
Ending was amazing though. Wrapped things up really nicely...unlike other franchises (ahem. MGS4)
With that being said, the gameplay isn't amazing but its serviceable. I think they scaled back a lot of what they were trying to do as evidenced by the earlier gameplay demos. Final battle was a chore for me because of the performance issues on the 360. Thing would chug along at times making it hard to aim. Also was it just me or could you not attach to a skyline attach point if you were jumping? Also wish you could use vigors while skylining.
Makes me think that they might have been handicapped by having to make this work for current-gen consoles.
Ending was amazing though. Wrapped things up really nicely...unlike other franchises (ahem. MGS4)
What does this mean? Every Booker in Infinite is a real Booker. The Booker that died in the alternate rebellion universe was using the Vox Populi to get to Elizabeth. Also, if someone is portrayed as a martyr for a cause, and it turns out that person wasn't a martyr, people will view said movement differently than before.
If Daisy didn't lie to her people about not dead Booker being an imposter or a traitor, they might not take her words as gospel anymore.
The shooting is a big part of Infinite, but I think you miss the point when you make your judgment based heavily on the mechanics of the game.
Bioshock Infinite was, at least for me, a very unique, emotional and extremely well crafted experience with deep storytelling that reached new hights due to the absense of cutscenes. The game literally blew my mind because I didn't think that AAA games could hold the innovative qualities of indie games and still be so vast and rich with details.
I feel a bit sad when people say it's just "another shooter", because it is so much more than just that. The greatest and most important things about Bioshock Infinite are not even measurable, and that's what I hope the next generation will be more about. Games need to be less about these things that are easy to nitpick and more about the actual experience; what we truly feel and relate to when we play them.
Bioshock Infinite was, at least for me, a very unique, emotional and extremely well crafted experience with deep storytelling that reached new hights due to the absense of cutscenes. The game literally blew my mind because I didn't think that AAA games could hold the innovative qualities of indie games and still be so vast and rich with details.
I feel a bit sad when people say it's just "another shooter", because it is so much more than just that. The greatest and most important things about Bioshock Infinite are not even measurable, and that's what I hope the next generation will be more about. Games need to be less about these things that are easy to nitpick and more about the actual experience; what we truly feel and relate to when we play them.
For what it's worth the game does pick up the farther you move along in the narrative.
An well the ending is probably one of the finest in this medium. So there's a lot to look forward to..
Mystic_Wanderer
Member
Uh, what? I was with you up until the end (besides you being silly for not playing it on PC, haha). MGS4 wrapped everything up 100%. Infinite certainly did not, especially with the bonus scene after the credits. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just what you said was completely wrong.
David H Wong
Banned
I absolutely agree with the op. I mean it definitely deserves praise for the art and music and story and voice acting, but the actual playing of the game is a tedious bore. You don't earn upgrades (you find them at random, laying around), there's hardly any variety to the enemies, the weapons aren't fun to use, and the inventory/powerup system is broken (requires constantly digging through bodies and trash cans). It's like the gameplay was an afterthought.
This is a great example of a game that defies numerical scoring, because it's a game that I think everyone should play for the parts that are great, but my actual experience of playing it has, for the most part, been very mediocre. I have started to dread the shooting parts, they're just so dull and tedious.
This is a great example of a game that defies numerical scoring, because it's a game that I think everyone should play for the parts that are great, but my actual experience of playing it has, for the most part, been very mediocre. I have started to dread the shooting parts, they're just so dull and tedious.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Oh, and one more thing. Considering I have played Persona 4 Golden for like, God only knows how many hours, the fact that the one who played Booker was Troy Baker was very distracting for me. Couldn't help but to imagine Kanji opening his mouth every time Booker spoke, hahahaha.
BloodMoney
Banned
hacking of deus ex and SS2 made the games better... infinite just dumped the mechanic, which is shame.
I have to believe that people who do not enjoy the gameplay of Bioshock Infinite probably do not like shooters in general, or have grown bored with the entire genre, and probably fall more in line with EviLore's strange and misguided "Bioshock Infinite should not be a shooter" thread.
RedAssedApe
Banned
I understand your gameplay complaints but this post tells me that you didn't understand what was going on in the story...
RustyNails
Member
Nilaul what are some of the games you consider amazing?
Rickenslacker
Banned
I dunno, core mechanics in the game for navigating the environment and handling threats aren't tacked on. Though rummaging through every trash can and bag for hotdogs and coins in a game that's an otherwise pretty straight-laced shooter sure starts feeling like a waste of time to me.
Riposte
Member
Did you not understand I was saying it is good (in fact, one of the better combat moments in the game like BI's final battle)? You should just say you disagree, not "to be fair".
Fitzgerald wanted to have Booker as a martyr for the cause. As a symbol he was worth much more to her than just another gun, especially since Fitzgerald had an army at that point. But, yes; I didn't think that her telling the rebellion to turn against you was a very good plot point.
I was being fair to all those people who say that that section ruins the game. Because it does.
CornBurrito
Member
What's so amazing about it really? The plot wasn't particularly great. It wasn't really deep or philosophical since it barely explores any of the themes it lays out. It is a pretty game for sure, with some ok shooting.
I didn't even know they were the same person. And I was playing Persona 4 Arena before and after played Infinite.
Omega_Tom_Hanks
Banned
One of the games of the generation. Warts and all. Active proof that in the realms of media, in my mind at least, a whole can be greater than the sum of it's parts. There is something so overwhelmingly cohesive about the whole experience. I just can't be mad at it. I won't ever forget the first few steps I took into Columbia. One of those moments that just feels right. Loved it.
I was recommended some youtube basic tutorial videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvpYianarNI
But I can't say if they're good or not. That will be my next game challenge too.
That's true if you apply absolutely no critical thinking.
Well I didn't really complain about the story, I did say that perhaps it could had been explained better, but I generally didn't have an issues with story (that's why its not in the OP, I found the story interesting)
CornBurrito
Member
No. Simply displaying issues and then not addressing them does not make a game deep.
Do you think Family Guy is a super deep show?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I didn't even know they were the same person. And I was playing Persona 4 Arena before and after played Infinite.
Man, how couldn't you recognize Troy Baker. The guy was like, everywhere, hahaha.
Well, at first I didn't recognize his voice though, that's true, but when I realized it was him I just couldn't get the image of Kanji out of my head every time Booker spoke. It sort of kind of ruined the immersion for me, enough to the point where I hope it wasn't Troy Baker playing as Booker, haha.
Themes of Infinite:
Parenthood
Slavery and labor for civilization advancement
Race and racial equality
Religion and religious entitlement
Seeking forgiveness and redemption
Revisionist attitudes and silencing guilt
I could go on, but I don't how helpful this conversation will be. Blindly using Family Guy as an insult is one of the dumbest retorts I've seen.
CornBurrito
Member
And it says very little about any of those themes it presents.
As I said, simply presenting those themes and then barely bringing them up at all does not make a game deep.
A season of Family Guy would likely touch upon all of those themes, but it is not deep. Calling it a dumb retort does not make it so. It is valid unless you can show that Bioshock Infinite explores those themes in a meaningful way. I'm not convinced that it does.
ii Stryker
Banned
Story was awesome the gameplay was eh.
I think we've already discussed this to death though.
/thread
I think we've already discussed this to death though.
/thread
So you want the game to be overly blunt and beat you over the head with how you should interpret events and themes in the game? Subtlety and leaving games up to interpretation is something I value more than anything else when it comes to videogame stories.
I have to teach you how to interpret stories and themes? No thanks.
Haunted
Member
I liked it.
If mods think his opinion isn't important enough to be its own thread they'll lock it, don't worry about it.
CornBurrito
Member
No that's not what I am saying.
And there's a difference between being subtle and saying nothing of note at all.
We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think the game is worthy of an above average score. But I really don't see it as worthy of 10/10 GOTY1!!!!!
Curses, now you've solidified my grammar error for all time!
RedAssedApe
Banned
LOL what I said was completely wrong? OK. Well if that's the case there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise. Suggest you check out the BSI spoiler thread though.
NerdEyeBlind
Member
Can't these 'personal experience' threads just be posts in the OT ?
They are? Felt fine to me.
I think a lot of people are confused as to what the narrative of Bioshock Infinite is trying to do. Just because racism and religion etc are present within the setting, BI is really a thought experiment that seeks to analyze a question that virtually every human being has come across at some point in their lives. Mainly, "What if you could go back and change _____ ".
It's unfortunate that the skill and effort put into fleshing out the universe of BI is actually drawing criticisms like yours simply because they don't flesh out every single aspect of the setting.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
There is no such thing as overrated. What a stupid word.
Do too many people like it, or do the ones that do like it too much? Which part of someones personal opinion do you have a problem with?
Do too many people like it, or do the ones that do like it too much? Which part of someones personal opinion do you have a problem with?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I agree with you, for what it's worth. The game just sort of waves its hand in the general direction of a handful of different themes and ideas. Which is totally fine for a video game, and still more ambitious than most games are--but not particularly thought-provoking in and of itself.
Haunted
Member
a post with an error getting quoted is just the worst
I agree to some extent.
The gameplay of the older SS2 was deeper then the bioshock's (inventory, hacking, maintenance, etc), but the story is/was not. I agree that the pacing and shooting was off track and could have been handled more elegantly (my opinion, I am not a game director)
It's sad but true; but the fact that gaming is becoming more and more mainstream, they need to make things more "engaging" by having fatalities and "balls to walls" violence, as well keeping mechanics relatively simple.
I think Ken and the team had to make a compromise to tell their story (read mainstreaming above).I rather have bioshock's then no bioshock's at all, as I believe these are the epitome of storytelling in the game media.
Don't misunderstand me, I would like nothing more then a shock game the involves the deep mechanics of SS2 + the deep story of the later games, while also catering to the "production values" we are accustomed to.
I don't think this will happen. "Maybe" some sort of kickstarter can rectify this, but have my doubts this is feasible.
To summarise; We should never wish that games like these are not made, as they in my opinion are as close as we will ever get to "old-school", were the story actually matters. (Although they have to have the "waz-am!" of current shooters). This game may influence other AAA titles to make more interesting story-lines, but sadly it seems that it's going the wrong way.
In this day and age I would take 1 shock game over 100 Gears or Killzone games.
The gameplay of the older SS2 was deeper then the bioshock's (inventory, hacking, maintenance, etc), but the story is/was not. I agree that the pacing and shooting was off track and could have been handled more elegantly (my opinion, I am not a game director)
It's sad but true; but the fact that gaming is becoming more and more mainstream, they need to make things more "engaging" by having fatalities and "balls to walls" violence, as well keeping mechanics relatively simple.
I think Ken and the team had to make a compromise to tell their story (read mainstreaming above).I rather have bioshock's then no bioshock's at all, as I believe these are the epitome of storytelling in the game media.
Don't misunderstand me, I would like nothing more then a shock game the involves the deep mechanics of SS2 + the deep story of the later games, while also catering to the "production values" we are accustomed to.
I don't think this will happen. "Maybe" some sort of kickstarter can rectify this, but have my doubts this is feasible.
To summarise; We should never wish that games like these are not made, as they in my opinion are as close as we will ever get to "old-school", were the story actually matters. (Although they have to have the "waz-am!" of current shooters). This game may influence other AAA titles to make more interesting story-lines, but sadly it seems that it's going the wrong way.
In this day and age I would take 1 shock game over 100 Gears or Killzone games.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
There was plenty of (deserved) backlash once people started finishing the game.