Support NeoGAF

[Relix]

Hey I played the 360 version and absolutely adored the game ( as matter of fact just bought the new DLC) and enjoyed every second of it. Fuck, the graphics didn't even matter to me as I was enjoying the game so much, and there were points when it did manage to 'wow' me graphically, even on the gimped (no need to deny this) 360 version.

Will probably play the PC version when it gets cheap on Steam, just so I can replay with mods and practically different gameplay.

If BioWare can fix the texture issues in the 360 (just make it 2 DVDs, the first game is mostly linear and maybe the second half after most of the dungeon crawling is done could have been done on the second DVD, thus avoiding the horrible sound sampling and the gimped textures) and keep the FPS a bit more constant (really didn't bother me too much, it's an RPG not an FPS) Iwill be more than happy.

I'll be on board for Awakening and DA2 BioWare!

 

[Zzoram]

Which still tends to have linear quests and story mind you.

Yep, the thing that makes them open is having a lot of space between those linear quests to walk slowly through.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

The lack of party banter (or conversation with your party members at all, outside of their loyalty missions and their safe nooks on the Normandy) in ME2 is pretty hard to take after playing a lot of Dragon Age, where the characters give their views at every opportunity.

I really wish that they took this from DA:O. At least in ME1 you had the occasional back and forth on the elevator rides, in ME2 there's nothing.

 

[Darkman M]

Which still tends to have linear quests and story mind you.

Yeah DA & ME both kill the elderscrolls game in that regard, only thing great about the elderscroll games to me is the modding, stand alone they don't hold up to Da or ME.

 

[Alex]

Dragon Age was already quite the looker. But then again, that was the PC version. The console version severely needs visual updates and the PC's difficulty and overhead cam. it was barely the same game, combat wise.

 

[cartman414]

Yeah, from what I've played so far the pacing in ME2 is excellent. Far better than both ME1 and DA. I'm far from finished though.

Ever play Baldur's Gate 1/2? Because that's what Dragon Age takes more closely after.

So now that we have Greg's word that the graphics on DA 2 are going to be super hot, I am expecting Mass Effect 2-like levels of polish.

Remember your promise Bioware !

You have now seen a Baldurs Gate 2 type game can still sell millions so there is no excuse to save on assets for the sequel.

I think they owe lots to the bump they got from Knights of the Old Republic, which had both the Star Wars mythos and the XBox platform to bring it plenty of attention. That, and that all subsequent major BioWare releases were released on the XBox and subsequently the 360 did wonders for their exposure.

 

[Fredescu]

Ever play Baldur's Gate 1/2? Because that's what Dragon Age takes more closely after.

Err, yes? I don't understand what prompted you to ask that.

 

[cartman414]

Err, yes? I don't understand what prompted you to ask that.

What I mean is that there's no comparison between DA: O and the Mass Effects. And the Baldur's Gates, and all subsequent Infinity Engine games were way more deliberate in their pacing in that they had more emphasis on talking and exploration.

 

[Kapura]

I really hope that DA Dos can bring some of the tactical aspects into the console version. Playing the 360 version after PC is like going from a console version of a game to a handheld. Same story, but the main aspect is watered down a great deal.

Still fcking awesome, though.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I really hope that DA Dos can bring some of the tactical aspects into the console version. Playing the 360 version after PC is like going from a console version of a game to a handheld. Same story, but the main aspect is watered down a great deal.

Still fcking awesome, though.

The best way to do that would be to make the battle system turn-based. Much easier to do on a gamepad.

It'll never happen, though.

 

[HK-47]

The best way to do that would be to make the battle system turn-based. Much easier to do on a gamepad.

It'll never happen, though.

Turn based is the lamest game type ever. Real devs program RTwP cause that way I get none of the benefits of either system!

 

[Kapura]

If it helps, I think the way combat was handled on the console on KotOR worked very well. When combat started, there was an auto-pause for you to pick all of your party member's targets and attacks, and it was easy to slip in on the fly and modify it. I thought that worked well. It was turned based technically, but more like real time in game.

 

[golem]

I really wish that they took this from DA:O. At least in ME1 you had the occasional back and forth on the elevator rides, in ME2 there's nothing.

False: (spoiler sort of)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a54Vm1ww8w

 

[Fredescu]

What I mean is that there's no comparison between DA: O and the Mass Effects.

They're both Bioware games, which means they have many similarities. Bioware_cliche_chart.jpg. Key among those is mission/quest structure, which in turn is key to pacing. There are absolutely comparisons to be drawn.

And the Baldur's Gates, and all subsequent Infinity Engine games were way more deliberate in their pacing in that they had more emphasis on talking and exploration.

Meaning their pacing was better than Dragon Age, yes?

Do you and that other guy think by pacing I mean Dragon Age should be turned into some fast action game? I'm happy to accept that I might be using the term incorrectly, so let me try and explain what I mean. I am not referring to the combat itself. Pacing to me is about variety and tension, or how long I can play for without getting bored. In a game with one primary mechanic, like your garden variety FPS, tension is the key component. In a game with more than one mutually exclusive mechanic that are both primary to gameplay, such as combat and dialogue trees in RPGs, variety is key. Don't make me do one or the other for too long at a time, especially if you're forcing me to do one or the other to progress.

Deep Roads/Orzammar was an example of this. Hours of conversation followed by hours of combat, and not much variety of either. Suggesting that there isn't a way to improve the pacing of that section without turning it into an action game is a bit silly.

I thought the Fade on the other hand was an example of great pacing. Too long? It was five short levels and a boss, with custom mechanics and custom "loot". Fantastic level, marred slightly by the vaseline effect.

Real devs program RTwP cause that way I get none of the benefits of either system!

Shame there aren't many real devs around then, because it is the best system. I like turn based too, but there are tonnes of those across multiple genres. Life would be easier if every game had the same combat mechanic though. Lucky we're getting all these shooters.

 

[cartman414]

They're both Bioware games, which means they have many similarities. Bioware_cliche_chart.jpg. Key among those is mission/quest structure, which in turn is key to pacing. There are absolutely comparisons to be drawn.

They're different types of games, regardless of developer and various trappings.

Meaning their pacing was better than Dragon Age, yes?

Do you and that other guy think by pacing I mean Dragon Age should be turned into some fast action game? I'm happy to accept that I might be using the term incorrectly, so let me try and explain what I mean. I am not referring to the combat itself. Pacing to me is about variety and tension, or how long I can play for without getting bored. In a game with one primary mechanic, like your garden variety FPS, tension is the key component. In a game with more than one mutually exclusive mechanic that are both primary to gameplay, such as combat and dialogue trees in RPGs, variety is key. Don't make me do one or the other for too long at a time, especially if you're forcing me to do one or the other to progress.

Deep Roads/Orzammar was an example of this. Hours of conversation followed by hours of combat, and not much variety of either. Suggesting that there isn't a way to improve the pacing of that section without turning it into an action game is a bit silly.

I thought the Fade on the other hand was an example of great pacing. Too long? It was five short levels and a boss, with custom mechanics and custom "loot". Fantastic level, marred slightly by the vaseline effect.

I don't disagree on pacing, and infact that's one of my main concerns regarding various games in general. I guess it's a matter of how much you can digest in terms of these games. Personally, I enjoy going through the dialogue trees, though I guess it has to do with the genre, namely its predecessors such as the Baldur's Gates and Planescape: Torment. Though I wouldn't be able to stomach that sort of thing in what would be intended to be an action game.

 

[I should be doing hw]

Well you are asking for Wrex to talk more, yet its part of his character that he is a man of few words and the less words wasted on the Krogan the better. Not to mention he does tell you about his fallout with his family.

Didn't really say that either I just said/meant that he's a boring ass character because of it. The whole 'man of few words' thing doesn't really work for me in anything but Westerns. Anywhere else, especially in a game, it just comes off as lazy. Despite all of this I still like ME though even if it sounds like I dispise it, there's just a lot wrong with it. :lol In fairness to Wrex, I played this after GAF would not stop cumming on him for being so awesome. I was very sorely disappointed.

Super hot just means more Desire Demons, dennis.

That sounds better if I read it in my head as Mack from IASIP :lol

 

[Fredescu]

They're different types of games, regardless of developer and various trappings.

I hate ME vs DA comparisons as much as the next man, and I hate getting drawn into debates about it, but in the broad church of modern gaming the two share far more significant similarities than they do differences. There is no good reason why their pacing cannot be compared.

I don't disagree on pacing, and infact that's one of my main concerns regarding various games in general. I guess it's a matter of how much you can digest in terms of these games.

So Dragon Age was perfectly paced, I just lack the capacity to appreciate it? It was my favourite game in years for what it's worth, but it's not without its faults. Would you care to be specific about why you disagree with a lot of people when they say Deep Roads and The Fade were "too long"? My impression is that you're in the minority about those two things. I too disagree with the majority about the Fade specifically.

Personally, I enjoy going through the dialogue trees, though I guess it has to do with the genre, namely its predecessors such as the Baldur's Gates and Planescape: Torment.

I don't know why people would bother playing these games if they didn't.

 

[Truant]

Hopefully the sequel won't feel like an MMO.

 

[thetrin]

Hmm, I recognise this picture, what's it from?

Dinoriders, a series of toys in the 80's.

 

[cartman414]

I hate ME vs DA comparisons as much as the next man, and I hate getting drawn into debates about it, but in the broad church of modern gaming the two share far more significant similarities than they do differences. There is no good reason why their pacing cannot be compared.


So Dragon Age was perfectly paced, I just lack the capacity to appreciate it? It was my favourite game in years for what it's worth, but it's not without its faults. Would you care to be specific about why you disagree with a lot of people when they say Deep Roads and The Fade were "too long"? My impression is that you're in the minority about those two things. I too disagree with the majority about the Fade specifically.

Okay, I'll admit it. I haven't played far enough just yet, as I've had a lot of other stuff to play, so I can't vouch for that one way or the other. What you said just struck me as a general complaint against the playstyle to which DA adheres more to, rather than parts like those. I apologize.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Call me crazy but I wouldn't want a Dragon Age game with Mass Effect 2 graphics. It's to realistic, I like the lesser technical but better art style look to it. I think it looks great as it is.

Whatever they go I hope they don't dumb it down like ME2. I don't really mind in that game because it was never a full on hardcore RPG to beginning with but Dragon Age kinda is and it's awesome that way. If they kept it as the heavy RPG and ME as the light, it'd be happy with that.

I guess you mean stat wise. RPG wise ME2 is greatly superior. "Role" Playing game... not "Stat" playing game.

 

[Darklord]

I guess you mean stat wise. RPG wise ME2 is greatly superior. "Role" Playing game... not "Stat" playing game.

Nope. Dragon Age is much more RPG in every sense. Deeper characters, better story, more character banter between each other, much more dialog and better dialog trees with a lot more actual consequences and choice. Mass Effect 2 is fucking awesome but to me it's a shooter with RPG influence.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Dragon Age had zero exploration, unless you count clicking on environmental objects. I don't see how it is any less linear.

There were quite a few maze dungeons in DA:O; particularly dungeons laid out in a rough lattice shape with lots of broken paths and dead ends. Now, you might say that that's boring exploration, but it's exploration nonetheless. Also, virtually every dungeon has at least two doors that can lead you to where you're going. There are two ways to get into the dungeon where you get Shale's control rod. There are two ways to leave the basement in Redcliffe Castle. There are at least two ways to go through each section of the Deep Roads. etc

ME2 in particular is pretty much entirely linear in level design once you're in mission. Even the branching paths that ME1 featured (on Virmire, the whole second half of the level had at least two paths; on the Mountain on Noveria, there were two paths) are pretty much not in ME2.

So Dragon Age was perfectly paced, I just lack the capacity to appreciate it? It was my favourite game in years for what it's worth, but it's not without its faults. Would you care to be specific about why you disagree with a lot of people when they say Deep Roads and The Fade were "too long"? My impression is that you're in the minority about those two things. I too disagree with the majority about the Fade specifically.

The problem with the Fade isn't that it's too long on its own.

It's that it's a dungeon inside a dungeon. So when you start the Fade, it doesn't feel like you're starting a 40 minute dungeon quest, it feels like you're 40 minutes into an excruciating 2 hour dungeon quest.

Now, assume you do Redcliffe before the Tower of Magi.

... now you're 2+ hours into a 3+ hour quest. exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcruciating!

(For what it's worth, I also found the Deep Roads too long, and the climb to the summit for the Urn of Sacred Ashes, and the forest dungeon with the werewolves which suffers from the same problem as the Fade; it's a dungeon that's inside a dungeon that was already a tad too long)

If I had played the PC version, I think this would have been less of an issue because the combat is substantially more strategic so the idea of 2 straight hours of it might have been compelling. Unfortunately the combat on the console version is just less interesting so I think the dragging on is more obvious.

 

[water_wendi]

If I had played the PC version, I think this would have been less of an issue because the combat is substantially more strategic so the idea of 2 straight hours of it might have been compelling. Unfortunately the combat on the console version is just less interesting so I think the dragging on is more obvious.

As someone who played the PC version and went from Redcliff to the Tower, i would say no. Its still like 5 hours of non-stop dungeoning using the same tactics on the similar enemies over and over and over again. The Fade for me was a welcome break from things but i had my own issues with the Fade.

The reason why i disliked the combat in DA and why i find it repetitive is not because the abundance of fighting to be had. Its that all the enemy-types seem to use the same tactics.. they all have about 5-10 melee rush you, 5-10 archers at a distance picking away at you, and a mage or three in the back casting spells. Theres nothing wrong with the AI using these tactics its just that you can reskin the Darkspawn with Templars or bandits and the fight would be the exact same.

At first it was awesome since fights were dangerous and i had to be engaged in things to survive. By the fifth fight like that i had things down pretty solid of how to take it down. The time i played the same fight for the 20th time i a span of a few hours i was bored though.

Maybe it has something to do with the variation i was expecting coming in to DA. Looking back to BG many of the different enemy types required different tactics or preperation. Off the top of my head heres examples of different variety i was expecting.

Dogs/Great Cats/Wolves/Gibberlings/Xvarts - melee swarms rushing you. Need to take down quick or else caster can be overrun if same level.

Carrion Crawlers/Hell Hounds/Dread-Vampiric Wolves - melee charge but their special attacks might seriously ruin your entire afternoon if you are not careful.

Trolls - an endurance battle if there are many. Spell and item management are a must. Enough fire arrows? Enough fire magic? Run out of spells.. do you chance resting? It can be very stressful.

Kobold/Yuan-Ti/Kuo-Toa/Gnolls/Goblins/Drow - These fights tend to be like those in DA. Melee, archers and casters.

Ankhegs - Teleporting enemies that seem to target the weakest party members (mages) with their projectiles.

Djinni/Efreeti - Invisible melee that can seriously jack you up if you dont have True Seeing/Detect Invisibility.

Elementals - Not so much an issue if you can scout ahead and plan for what is coming but when an enemy mage summons these guys you can be in trouble.

Golems - If you dont have Blunt weapons, run.

Wyverns - The poison is a real problem if you arent prepared.

Umber Hulks - Confusion.

Shadows/Ghouls - Close range combat with these is a no-no. Need to take these down at range.

Lich/Illithid/Dragons/Rakshasa/Other Adventuring Parties - These are basically Boss encounters in BG/BG2.


Maybe my expectations were my fault and not DAs. Maybe things change after Radcliff/Tower Magi.. i ended up uninstalling after i got bored with it.

Anyways.. im tired and ive rambled on.

 

[WanderingWind]

As someone who played the PC version and went from Redcliff to the Tower, i would say no. Its still like 5 hours of non-stop dungeoning using the same tactics on the similar enemies over and over and over again. The Fade for me was a welcome break from things but i had my own issues with the Fade.

The reason why i disliked the combat in DA and why i find it repetitive is not because the abundance of fighting to be had. Its that all the enemy-types seem to use the same tactics.. they all have about 5-10 melee rush you, 5-10 archers at a distance picking away at you, and a mage or three in the back casting spells. Theres nothing wrong with the AI using these tactics its just that you can reskin the Darkspawn with Templars or bandits and the fight would be the exact same.

At first it was awesome since fights were dangerous and i had to be engaged in things to survive. By the fifth fight like that i had things down pretty solid of how to take it down. The time i played the same fight for the 20th time i a span of a few hours i was bored though.

Maybe it has something to do with the variation i was expecting coming in to DA. Looking back to BG many of the different enemy types required different tactics or preperation. Off the top of my head heres examples of different variety i was expecting.

Dogs/Great Cats/Wolves/Gibberlings/Xvarts - melee swarms rushing you. Need to take down quick or else caster can be overrun if same level.

Carrion Crawlers/Hell Hounds/Dread-Vampiric Wolves - melee charge but their special attacks might seriously ruin your entire afternoon if you are not careful.

Trolls - an endurance battle if there are many. Spell and item management are a must. Enough fire arrows? Enough fire magic? Run out of spells.. do you chance resting? It can be very stressful.

Kobold/Yuan-Ti/Kuo-Toa/Gnolls/Goblins/Drow - These fights tend to be like those in DA. Melee, archers and casters.

Ankhegs - Teleporting enemies that seem to target the weakest party members (mages) with their projectiles.

Djinni/Efreeti - Invisible melee that can seriously jack you up if you dont have True Seeing/Detect Invisibility.

Elementals - Not so much an issue if you can scout ahead and plan for what is coming but when an enemy mage summons these guys you can be in trouble.

Golems - If you dont have Blunt weapons, run.

Wyverns - The poison is a real problem if you arent prepared.

Umber Hulks - Confusion.

Shadows/Ghouls - Close range combat with these is a no-no. Need to take these down at range.

Lich/Illithid/Dragons/Rakshasa/Other Adventuring Parties - These are basically Boss encounters in BG/BG2.


Maybe my expectations were my fault and not DAs. Maybe things change after Radcliff/Tower Magi.. i ended up uninstalling after i got bored with it.

Anyways.. im tired and ive rambled on.

Well, in BG you could also just attack until things died. Like DA, it was as complicated as you wanted to make it.

 

[WanderingWind]

I...did I play a different game or do I just suck at BG?

I mean, take trolls for example. You have to burn their corpses to make sure they're dead.

Or acid, IIRC. But then again, it's been years since I played. Maybe my memory is a little hazier than I thought.

 

[toastyToast]

Please fix the collision detection with armor. That shit drove me insane.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Well the NWN style engine which Dragon Age seems to use could definitely use a major update. The only thing I am concerned about is that it is extremely moddable and Mass Effect is not. Hopefully if they upgrade the engine they keep the iso view and keep the moddability. They should look at licensing whatever engine that is used for Dawn of War II. That seemed to be a much better engine tech wise.

 

[water_wendi]

Well, in BG you could also just attack until things died. Like DA, it was as complicated as you wanted to make it.

Trying to brute force your way through most fights in BG1/2 where you arent vastly over the opponents level will get you real acquainted with the game over screen.

i guess the point i was trying to make is that in the BG games you had to utilize the full repertoire of all the skills and magic available to you to survive. The amount of differing combat situations you found yourself up against you had to really plan things out. If you stumbled into Basilisk Country without Protection from Petrification spells and scrolls, Mirrored Eyes potions, Stone to Flesh scrolls, or the ability to conjure an undead fighting force, you were fucked. If you went into Wyvern/Spider Country without enough anti-poison stuff there was a good chance you wouldnt be able to make it out of the map alive. Same thing for Vampire Lairs or Beholder Dens or pretty much anywhere.

BG basically forces you to be Batman. Without prep time, you lose. In DA, things seem to be much simpler. The entire strategy is based around the battle you are currently fighting (you make it through that and everything is reset for the next room) whereas in BG you plan around the entire area. i know i couldnt get through a real-time 5 hour D'Arnise Keep.

 

[Dennis]

Why is everybody talking about boring stuff like gameplay ?

The story here is that Greg himself has promised us that the visuals for DA 2 will be "super hot".

Excite!

 

[Fredescu]

You have got to be kidding me. Yes, the main city in DA has zero exploration.

As video game cities go, Denerim felt like a tiny backwater. This is probably as much a fault with Dragon Age's general "small zone" level design as anything else. Note that I don't think Dragon Age necessarily needs exploration. Give me a sequel with better pacing and loot, but more of the same everything else, and I will be a happy man.

Yes, because combat was the only deep thing about Dragon Age.

Show me a deep system in Dragon Age and I'll show you a system that has nothing to do with pacing. Like I've said, it's almost entirely to do with variety and quest structure.

ME2 in particular is pretty much entirely linear in level design once you're in mission.

I came across a number of dead ends and optional rooms in the first Omega mission I did, but I'll take your word for it that's more linear than ME1. Like I said, I haven't finished it. Some DA dungeons are non linear in their progression, in that they require backtracking, like the Ruined Temple in Haven and gaining access to the werewolf dungeon. Does a non-linearity and a backtracking requirement equal exploration? Honest question.

The problem with the Fade isn't that it's too long on its own.

I don't disagree with what you've said, but most people grumble the "The Fade" specifically. If it were the case that the entire Redcliffe -> Mage Tower -> Fade quest line were causing the grumbles, I would expect to see people say that more often. Having read every post in the official thread I can tell you that it is quite specifically "The Fade" that annoys a lot people.

Why is everybody talking about boring stuff like gameplay ?

The story here is that Greg himself has promised us that the visuals for DA 2 will be "super hot".

Because what he really means is: "the sequel will be optimised for consoles so the graphics look better on those systems."

 

[Lakitu]

I'm probably going to get Dragon Age: Origins now that I completed Mass Effect 2. I crave more Bioware.

The thing is, I've never been too sure of the console version, and I don't have a good enough PC to run the thing, so, what are the major differences?

 

[Fredescu]

what are the major differences?

The console versions have a fixed over the shoulder view, whereas the PC version has a number of zoom levels. The controls are generally easier on PC, and there are a lot of mods to make your life easier that you can't use on consoles.

 

[Nirolak]

So on an interesting note about this, it seems BioWare went closer to the mod for the action figure than they did the original model (eye color, eye size, lip color), though that may just be coincidence or the limitations of the (surprisingly ugly) action figures.

 

[I should be doing hw]

So on an interesting note about this, it seems BioWare went closer to the mod for the action figure than they did the original model (eye color, eye size, lip color), though that may just be coincidence or the limitations of the (surprisingly ugly) action figures.

The mod is based on the art which I also assume the models were.

 

[Nirolak]

The mod is based on the art which I also assume the models were.

That would make the most sense in retrospect...

 

[ethelred]

Ranger pets for blood magic and tanking are godly. Excellent class. I <3 you, giant poisonous spider.

Also with the right set ups, the assassin and the archer can do ridiculous single target damage.

Rogues are a fantastic class. I'll never understand the people who claim they suck; I can only assume these individuals haven't done any delving into the game's depth to any real extent.

All four of their specializations are great. Duelist and assassin make for fantastic offensive classes for the dual-wielding rogue, ranger summons are very useful (and they beat the hell out of Morrigan's terrible shapeshifter class), and bard is incredibly useful from a supportive standpoint. Stealth is also pretty damned useful, and a rogue that's properly using poison can get even more of an edge.

I'm also one of those that doesn't like the unlock spell mod because there are only three classes in the game, they're designed to have their own roles to play, and it sucks for people to make something that breaks that by giving one of the key roles of one class to another one. But oh well, people can do what they want.

Yeah, from what I've played so far the pacing in ME2 is excellent. Far better than both ME1 and DA. I'm far from finished though.

I don't know if I'd say the pacing is better. ME2 is structured very differently from DA and ME1 (and Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire...). All those games have an identical narrative and locational structure which means they have to be paced a certain way with dungeons of a certain size, but ME2 really goes a different route -- there are fewer key locations tied to the main plot points, but a lot more semi-side stuff (which is required, for the most part, but still ancillary to the main overriding quest). So stuff is smaller and brisker. It's a different approach. I like both.

 

[Mashing]

Whoa!

That Loghain model looks like an angry Keanu Reeves.

 

[Yopis]

Dragon Age was my suprise game of last year.Way better than I expected.Good stuff to hear they are working on the look for the sequel.

 

[charlequin]

Whoa!

That Loghain model looks like an angry Keanu Reeves.

Came in here to post this!

 

[Brashnir]

They're both Bioware games, which means they have many similarities. Bioware_cliche_chart.jpg. Key among those is mission/quest structure, which in turn is key to pacing. There are absolutely comparisons to be drawn.


Meaning their pacing was better than Dragon Age, yes?

Do you and that other guy think by pacing I mean Dragon Age should be turned into some fast action game? I'm happy to accept that I might be using the term incorrectly, so let me try and explain what I mean. I am not referring to the combat itself. Pacing to me is about variety and tension, or how long I can play for without getting bored. In a game with one primary mechanic, like your garden variety FPS, tension is the key component. In a game with more than one mutually exclusive mechanic that are both primary to gameplay, such as combat and dialogue trees in RPGs, variety is key. Don't make me do one or the other for too long at a time, especially if you're forcing me to do one or the other to progress.

Deep Roads/Orzammar was an example of this. Hours of conversation followed by hours of combat, and not much variety of either. Suggesting that there isn't a way to improve the pacing of that section without turning it into an action game is a bit silly.

I thought the Fade on the other hand was an example of great pacing. Too long? It was five short levels and a boss, with custom mechanics and custom "loot". Fantastic level, marred slightly by the vaseline effect.


Shame there aren't many real devs around then, because it is the best system. I like turn based too, but there are tonnes of those across multiple genres. Life would be easier if every game had the same combat mechanic though. Lucky we're getting all these shooters.

I thought Orzammar was the best part of the game, and the Fade was by far the worst. Opinions/assholes and all that.

 

[Himajin]

The Deep Roads portion of Orzammar dragged on FAR too long for my liking, and I would rather have had that effort put into another section of the game. I thought the Elven quests were paced perfectly.

The one thing Bioware always nails is the narrative/dialog. I enjoyed DA immensely, but many other aspects could have been improved, the graphics (yes, even PC) and pacing being a couple of them.

 

[FieryBalrog]

No one cares about the FX Bioware Jesus fucking Christ

Just don't make it look dog ugly "next gen" with bad bloom like the first iteration and keep the actual combat and gameplay good.

 

[Dennis]

No one cares about the FX Bioware Jesus fucking Christ

Just don't make it look dog ugly "next gen" with bad bloom like the first iteration and keep the actual combat and gameplay good.

Oh, I care.

With Mass Effect 2 Bioware have shown how polished a game can be. Now that DA is a million-selling success, there is no reason not to expect that same level for the graphics for DA 2.

Improve the graphics and keep/improve the gameplay from DA and you should have an even greater success.

 

[Ashodin]

The Deep Roads portion of Orzammar dragged on FAR too long for my liking, and I would rather have had that effort put into another section of the game. I thought the Elven quests were paced perfectly.

The one thing Bioware always nails is the narrative/dialog. I enjoyed DA immensely, but many other aspects could have been improved, the graphics (yes, even PC) and pacing being a couple of them.

Doing the Deep Roads at the ass end of the journey is better than the beginning. It feels much more like the deep revelatory near-game ender than the other areas of the game. I'm glad I played it last, because I enjoyed it the most. Fade was bitchin' too. Redcliff is forgettable.

 

[Truant]

Make the individual areas have more interesting contained plots. As far as I'm concerned, the whole 'blight' thing should only be an excuse to send you around the map doing awesome shit.

I didn't really get into Dragon Age. The game went on forever, but I always had the feeling that it was about to end because of the whole recruitment thing.