Support NeoGAF

[pancakesandsex]

I'm fairly certain that Kuzunoha Raidou is over 21, but I don't think his exact age is specified.

I believe Raidou is of high school age. Isn't his attire that of high school kids of the era? I thought it was something like that.

 

[Flachmatuch]

No, I and dozens of other posts/posters have already addressed them. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7-8 new ways to approach the beginning of a RPG and have it not be about kids.

Errr...sorry, but it isn't that easy to find the posts you're referring to on the past few pages. I'd be really interested in what these possible story beginnings are too

I would say the same about WRPGs outside a few I really enjoyed (Planescape Torment, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura).

It's a shame that all these games (and all the WRPG classics people keep referring to) are pretty old :-/ On the other hand, it's also pretty awesome, because I can play them on my crappy notebook.

 

[Crash Station]

Are we still arguing about this? It doesn't seem like fans on either side are budging in their stance.

Edit: As for the age thing, isn't the main character of Vandel Hearts in his 30s or something?

 

[WanderingWind]

Sometimes, I wonder why some people play Japanese RPGs.

Tales of Vesperia: Yuri was a refreshing protagonist, Estelle actually had a nice bit of strength to her that I believe kept her from the "Generic happy girl" persona, and Karol had a very similiar uniqueness as well. I think most of the cast of the game go a step beyond their stereotypes, and become CHARACTERS. Judy and Yuri played so well off each other, I really missed her side of things when she left the party for a time. To typecast them is a crime of not looking at the whole character, just taking a feature of them, and overblowing it.

Lost Odyssey: I think Mack and Cooke did a great job at solidfying what made Kaim and the others so mature. They provided a worthwhile contrast to the other characters, and I have no problem with them being SUPPORT characters in a game with adults. Real kids to annoying and childish things, too, but you know why? It's because they're CHILDREN! I definately prefer to have 2 children reacting around adults, than to having a world with JUST adults of the same age and maturity (such as in Mass Effect.)

Bioware/Western RPGs: Like the "Find the Carth!" idea we have going here; Bioware RPGs, for a JRPG fan like myself, seem to recycle the same characters over and over, even moreso than their eastern counterparts. As soon as I hear the hero state "I am a GREY warden!" in the commericial, and noticed the whole anti-hero spin, I lost a good deal of care for the game.

Nothing in Mass Effect seemed too "evolutionary" for me, story wise; The characters you can fall in love with are the same archetypes you always can. The characters who where support where the same. I did like people like Wrex and Tali, however.

To me, JRPG characters are definitive representations of memorable characters. Because of the way the Japanese give characters such clear charm points, memorable speech patters, of OBVIOUS, OVEREMPHASIZED FLAWS (like Clumsiness, bad clothing choices, or exceedingly jaded views), I tend to remember and hold their characters in memory much longer than the generic WRPG characters. Also JRPGs offer much wider cast type variety, when it comes to personality. Throughout the years, I can relate to each member of say, the cast of FFVI and FFVII differently as I grow older.

For me, WRPG characters are memorable for their single games (and sequels) only, but they're nothing I wanna remember after the game is over. I feel like I'm gonna see the same guy, without any memorable embellishments, in the next (rare) WRPG I play.

And if I see one more WRPG hero stab his sword into the ground, for a generic circular power wave to explode out from beneath/around him, I'm gonna spit! It's as overdone as the "walk away from an explosion" nonsense...

Which is funny, because I can't separate any of the JRPG characters from my memories of each other. Was Estelle a different perky, healer who couldn't cook than Elena? Was Yuri different than any other stoic badass character who learned how to be a really swell guy than Kaim or Vincent, etc.

 

[Juice]

Was that the OP's title before mods edited it, I hope?

 

[pancakesandsex]

nm misread

 

[WanderingWind]

Because of the same reason many japanese developers stick to their safe zone, it doesn't/didn't sell; even when your game is the best of it's kind, case in point Arcanum

edith wait it seems Arcanum sold enough to get a sequel on the works, before Troika closed that is

Troika closing was a dark day in video game history. Vampire and Arcanum remain two of the best examples of flawed, but memorable games.

 

[farnham]

the world needs more dragon quest 9 like back to the basics approaches

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Which is funny, because I can't separate any of the JRPG characters from my memories of each other. Was Estelle a different perky, healer who couldn't cook than Elena? Was Yuri different than any other stoic badass character who learned how to be a really swell guy than Kaim or Vincent, etc.

Yuri was always a swell guy, he was also always a sarcastic asshole.

He was also way less stoic than the other two.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Which is funny, because I can't separate any of the JRPG characters from my memories of each other. Was Estelle a different perky, healer who couldn't cook than Elena? Was Yuri different than any other stoic badass character who learned how to be a really swell guy than Kaim or Vincent, etc.

So the "moral" of the thread is that different people like different stuff? :-D

TBH, it's true that a lot of Western game stories (like Bioshock or Kotor 2 etc) are pretty ambitious, but I think that ambition is mostly misdirected and wasted. They often try to be clever for cleverness' sake, rely on twists and reveals and describe morally unrealistic situations in order to feel intelligent. I disliked Bioshock and Kotor 2 because of this, they felt...dishonest? Maybe it's not the best word though. I also felt that the picture they painted on morality was, instead of being more nuanced, just trickery, and didn't help in putting more light on the issue. But of course this is subjective, they're just games that do at least intend to make people think, so I shouldn't really be angry at them because they fail to reach my (completely unrealistic and dumb) standards...but still, they really managed to piss me off (and still do)

 

[Tellaerin]

No, I and dozens of other posts/posters have already addressed them. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7-8 new ways to approach the beginning of a RPG and have it not be about kids.

No offense, but I haven't seen anything that addressed the issue I raised. The question is, how do you create an adult protagonist who still has some physical and mental growing to do, so he can develop significantly both in combat prowess and as a person, without making him unpalatably immature for a grown man or straining the limits of credulity? I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. The alternative is to just abandon the protagonist's character arc entirely, but then you end up with something that doesn't feel much like a JRPG anymore, story-wise. And while some people here would say that's an improvement, I'm not one of them.

 

[Lostconfused]

No offense, but I haven't seen anything that addressed the issue I raised. The question is, how do you create an adult protagonist who still has some physical and mental growing to do, so he can develop significantly both in combat prowess and as a person, without making him unpalatably immature for a grown man or straining the limits of credulity? I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. The alternative is to just abandon the protagonist's character arc entirely, but then you end up with something that doesn't feel much like a JRPG anymore, story-wise. And while some people here would say that's an improvement, I'm not one of them.

Well the main character in Yakuza can level up and get new abilities throughout the game and for the most part they dont give you an explanation for any of it.

 

[Flachmatuch]

There's not much mental growing up there though Also, his life is pretty much a clean slate (he comes out of prison at the beginning of the game), based on the "tragic secret past" cliche (which is just another version of the amnesia trick). Yeah, you can do it, but you have to resort to tricks to basically eliminate his entire personal past. I think it's also pretty cliched, but it's great because it's so well done (compared to other games). I don't think writers have to break away from these, they just have to use them well and not mechanically (like, for example, in SO4).

 

[Crash Station]

No offense, but I haven't seen anything that addressed the issue I raised. The question is, how do you create an adult protagonist who still has some physical and mental growing to do, so he can develop significantly both in combat prowess and as a person, without making him unpalatably immature for a grown man or straining the limits of credulity? I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. The alternative is to just abandon the protagonist's character arc entirely, but then you end up with something that doesn't feel much like a JRPG anymore, story-wise. And while some people here would say that's an improvement, I'm not one of them.

25 year olds have plenty of growing to do.

 

[WanderingWind]

No offense, but I haven't seen anything that addressed the issue I raised. The question is, how do you create an adult protagonist who still has some physical and mental growing to do, so he can develop significantly both in combat prowess and as a person, without making him unpalatably immature for a grown man or straining the limits of credulity? I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. The alternative is to just abandon the protagonist's character arc entirely, but then you end up with something that doesn't feel much like a JRPG anymore, story-wise. And while some people here would say that's an improvement, I'm not one of them.

Yes, it is. But then again, I'm a professional writer, so maybe it's because it's my job to be creative with traditional source materials.

Let me start you on my train of thought. What does the average teen know about combat? Nothing, right? That's what makes it easy to start your combat-oriented RPG as a kid.

Now, to put an adult spin on the same problem, which is how do you show growth in the area of combat?

Well, ask yourself this. How many adults really know that much about combat? Besides soldiers, not many. Even in medieval times, unless you were in that profession, you really weren't that versed in swordplay.

Why can't there be an arc that shows an adult having to pick up a sword and fight? It still follows a familiar arc without being cliched. At least within the confines of gaming.

 

[HK-47]

The real reason main characters are young males isn't because of some writing/gameplay limitation. It's because their target market is young males.

It's the same reason why Peter Parker has to stay a perpetually single loser that lives in his Aunt's house.

lol except he's been married forever and when they tried to undo that the outcry was so huge the anger still hasnt abated.

Seriously, fuck One More Day.

 

[thetrin]

There's not much mental growing up there though Also, his life is pretty much a clean slate (he comes out of prison at the beginning of the game), based on the "tragic secret past" cliche (which is just another version of the amnesia trick). Yeah, you can do it, but you have to resort to tricks to basically eliminate his entire personal past. I think it's also pretty cliched, but it's great because it's so well done (compared to other games). I don't think writers have to break away from these, they just have to use them well and not mechanically (like, for example, in SO4).

Kiriyu HARDLY has a clean slate when he gets out of jail. If nothing else, his absence for 10 years is the driving force behind all of the shit going on in the story.

His past is also one of the major plot points for the majority of the game. I fail to see how it's a clean slate.

If anything, he gets somewhat of a clean slate when he moves to Okinawa in RGG3.

 

[WanderingWind]

lol except he's been married forever and when they tried to undo that the outcry was so huge the anger still hasnt abated.

Seriously, fuck One More Day.

I'm still pissed about that.

Well, that and the fact that DC and Marvel have gotten so rape happy recently. RIP Sue. RIP.

 

[SAB CA]

Which is funny, because I can't separate any of the JRPG characters from my memories of each other. Was Estelle a different perky, healer who couldn't cook than Elena? Was Yuri different than any other stoic badass character who learned how to be a really swell guy than Kaim or Vincent, etc.

It all depends on what you like in characters, truly. I can find JRPG characters plesant and enjoyable as "characters" and that allows me to look deeper into each one. Just as I'm sure Bioware fans can find the difference between each "Carth" and say why they like on more than the other, lol.

Yuri and Kaim aren't anywhere near alike, at their root, to me, for example. Kaim draw much more from his experience and lengthly lifetime, and seemed somewhat detached and withdrawn for most of the game. Yuri seemed much more self sacrifical. He shouldered everyones problems and concerns onto himself, and his whole theme was to throw himself into the dark deeds that needed to be done, were noone else would. Vincent was stoic, but it's been a long while, did he have any of those types of traits? I remember him having love for one person, which he sacrificed much for.

Elena and Estelle are probably much more close, admittedly, though I think the strength Elena had to learn from Millenia, was something Estelle shows from the very beginning of her adventure. Throughout Vesperia, I expected Estelle to be MUCH more spoiled and stupid. I think her "book knowledge" was much more developed than most other characters of her type. It wasn't just "cold knowledge of situations with no emotions", she was so well read that she was more like a scientist. It totally overrode the usual "ditz" role of the spoiled princess, and made her into one of the most well-researched, thoughtful people on the party, besides Rita. It gave a much better reason for her and Rita to relate, than the usual "Awkward girls like privaledged girls!"

To go back to something I said in my first post, I felt more like Vesperia made mains out of support characters, and went a step further with it's characterization than most JRPGs. Spectral Force 3 I would say takes all it's characters as perfections of their character types, doing nothing more or less than you expect those types to do, but I think Vesperia has some of the best characterization, to me, that I've seen.

Vesperia is also a JRPG I think really benefits from it's US voicework. Yuri's voice says much for his personality, that seems iffy at first (Because he looks like Tales of the Abyss' Tear, as a guy!), but by the time you really get to KNOW him, you know he's so much more than a normal Bishonen with a Sword.

But anywho, yeah. Japan makes great characters for people people who appreciate eastern character types, just like "the West" makes great characters for those who appreciate theirs. I dislike it when people look for the wrong types and each, and try to judge each by conflicting expectations. It's like watching an action movie, and saying it sucks because it didn't have enough fight scenes!

However, I love it when the creators mix things up a bit. I'd love to see it happen more! So in the end, I can agree that JRPGs would try to freshen up a bit in ways, but I strongly disagree with the thinking that WRPGs show the way to this. I think that idea is a bit concieted.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Yes, it is. But then again, I'm a professional writer, so maybe it's because it's my job to be creative with traditional source materials.

Let me start you on my train of thought. What does the average teen know about combat? Nothing, right? That's what makes it easy to start your combat-oriented RPG as a kid.

Now, to put an adult spin on the same problem, which is how do you show growth in the area of combat?

Well, ask yourself this. How many adults really know that much about combat? Besides soldiers, not many. Even in medieval times, unless you were in that profession, you really weren't that versed in swordplay.

Why can't there be an arc that shows an adult having to pick up a sword and fight? It still follows a familiar arc without being cliched. At least within the confines of gaming.

This is a really bad idea. Adults don't learn nearly as fast as children, so this is just not believable. Directly replacing a young character with an old one obviously does not work. The adult picking up a sword will be clumsy and mostly unable to improve. You'd have to show how he gets the experience and knowledge that a young person can get through training.

 

[Tellaerin]

25 year olds have plenty of growing to do.

*nod* That's why I said this, about a page or so back:

Personally, I'd settle for more JRPG protagonists in their early-to-mid 20's, which makes them a little more mature and believable as adventurers while still leaving room for the zero-to-hero character arcs I enjoy. That's just me, though. YMMV.

I think that's the upper end of believability for me, age-wise, for the novice adventurer setting off on the road for the first time.

 

[WanderingWind]

However, I love it when the creators mix things up a bit. I'd love to see it happen more! So in the end, I can agree that JRPGs would try to freshen up a bit in ways, but I strongly disagree with the thinking that WRPGs show the way to this. I think that idea is a bit concieted.

Well, I never said WRPGs are better. Your point previously is the same as mine. I wish JRPG and WRPG creators mix stuff up a bit more.

I haven't enjoyed JRPGs as of late, but I haven't given up on the genre.

 

[Tellaerin]

This is a really bad idea. Adults don't learn nearly as fast as children, so this is just not believable. Directly replacing a young character with an old one obviously does not work. The adult picking up a sword will be clumsy and mostly unable to improve. You'd have to show how he gets the experience and knowledge that a young person can get through training.

You said it better than I could. Thank you.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

lol except he's been married forever and when they tried to undo that the outcry was so huge the anger still hasnt abated.

Seriously, fuck One More Day.

Seriously. That's what happens when you make fans writers part of the staff.

 

[Lostconfused]

You'd have to show how he gets the experience and knowledge that a young person can get through training.

Well thats the point. Practice and experience is how a human being gets better at anything.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Kiriyu HARDLY has a clean slate when he gets out of jail. If nothing else, his absence for 10 years is the driving force behind all of the shit going on in the story.

His past is also one of the major plot points for the majority of the game. I fail to see how it's a clean slate.

If anything, he gets somewhat of a clean slate when he moves to Okinawa in RGG3.

No, it's his "secret past" *before* the prison (when he was 20-something) that's catching up with him, same as with any amnesiac. His lack of a past as a normal person (eg. wife and kids) is a huge part of why the story can even happen. Not that it's not a good solution, but it's also pretty cliched. There's nothing wrong with those.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Well thats the point. Practice and experience is how a human being gets better at anything.

And if a 35 year old believes he can improve as well as a 15 or 25 year old, and reach even remotely the same level, he's known as a manchild without a sense of reality. This is the problem, not the solution!

 

[Crash Station]

*nod* That's why I said this, about a page or so back:



I think that's the upper end of believability for me, age-wise, for the novice adventurer setting off on the road for the first time.

Oh, okay. Haven't really looked through this thread since I wasn't expecting a productive discussion. I agree 100%.

Also, kind of off topic but I want to see more JRPG protagonists with facial hair.

 

[WanderingWind]

This is a really bad idea. Adults don't learn nearly as fast as children, so this is just not believable. Directly replacing a young character with an old one obviously does not work. The adult picking up a sword will be clumsy and mostly unable to improve. You'd have to show how he gets the experience and knowledge that a young person can get through training.

...what?

Are...are you fucking with me, or what?

Of course an adult picking up a sword would be clumsy. Are you trying to say a kid doing the same wouldn't be?

Older people can train. We're not talking about 60 year olds learning to bareknuckle brawl or anything. 25-30 year olds, man, can learn anything a 14-18 year old can, in many cases easier.

 

[Zedsdeadbaby]

The trick is to have a western RPG made by a Japanese developer. The last time this happened, the best game on the PS3 was made, Demon's Souls.

 

[Zzoram]

Oh, okay. Haven't really looked through this thread since I wasn't expecting a productive discussion. I agree 100%.

Also, kind of off topic but I want to see more JRPG protagonists with facial hair.

It would make them easier to identify as males. I definitely didn't know Hope from FF13 was a boy until someone told me. He looks like a girl, and his tears even smear his eye liner.

 

[SAB CA]

Well, I never said WRPGs are better. Your point previously is the same as mine. I wish JRPG and WRPG creators mix stuff up a bit more.

I haven't enjoyed JRPGs as of late, but I haven't given up on the genre.

-nod- Oh, don't misunderstand, I didn't think you thought one was better than the other ^_^ That was just me chasing a particular tangent.

Personally, I don't play JRPGs as fiercly as I used to either, mostly because I feel almost all RPGs (and games in general) overstay their welcome, but that's another topic entirely!

 

[water_wendi]

This is a really bad idea. Adults don't learn nearly as fast as children, so this is just not believable. Directly replacing a young character with an old one obviously does not work. The adult picking up a sword will be clumsy and mostly unable to improve. You'd have to show how he gets the experience and knowledge that a young person can get through training.

"What are you talking about, Woody?"

Seriously though, i dont really see how having an adult learn something that is so unbelievable. i know nothing about fencing but if i were to join a fencing club i would learn it pretty quickly i think. If i were to put this into rpg terms my skill in Fencing would be low but the attributes i have that are higher than a kids would benefit me (higher strength, etc).

 

[WanderingWind]

"What are you talking about, Woody?"

Seriously though, i dont really see how having an adult learn something that is so unbelievable. i know nothing about fencing but if i were to join a fencing club i would learn it pretty quickly i think. If i were to put this into rpg terms my skill in Fencing would be low but the attributes i have that are higher than a kids would benefit me (higher strength, etc).

Oh, thank god. I thought I was going crazy for a minute there.

 

[Lostconfused]

And if a 35 year old believes he can improve as well as a 15 or 25 year old, and reach even remotely the same level, he's known as a manchild without a sense of reality. This is the problem, not the solution!

Ok well what are we talking about here? That some one who practiced since they were 10 until 20 something would be better than some one who just started at 30? Yeah ok that would be true. Or at we talking about a person being able to learn to do something at 30?

 

[Tellaerin]

...what?

Are...are you fucking with me, or what?

Of course an adult picking up a sword would be clumsy. Are you trying to say a kid doing the same wouldn't be?

Older people can train. We're not talking about 60 year olds learning to bareknuckle brawl or anything. 25-30 year olds, man, can learn anything a 14-18 year old can, in many cases easier.

You honestly believe an untrained 25-30 year old can pick up physical skills like martial arts or swordsmanship as well and as quickly as someone in their late teens? Where are you getting this from? Even if you can substantiate it with the results of a study or something, it seems so counterintuitive that I'd be hard-pressed to suspend my disbelief regardless.

 

[WanderingWind]

Ok well what are we talking about here? That some one who practiced since they were 10 until 20 something would be better than some one who just started at 30? Yeah ok that would be true. Or at we talking about a person being able to learn to do something at 30?

In the framework of an RPG, a kid and an adult who have never picked up a sword do so for the first time. Apparently, the kid is going to be Musashi Jr., whilst the adult is just going to slice his nipple off.

 

[Crash Station]

It would make them easier to identify as males. I definitely didn't know Hope from FF13 was a boy until someone told me. He looks like a girl, and his tears even smear his eye liner.

I think I liked Junpei Iori from Persona 3 only because he had a bit of stubble. Seriously, JRPG devs need to use facial hair on characters in their teens/20s more, even if it's only a little bit of stubble.

Also, Hope is mild compared to some of the other girly-boys out there. He isn't even close to being considered a trap.

 

[WanderingWind]

You honestly believe an untrained 25-30 year old can pick up physical skills like martial arts or swordsmanship as well and as quickly as someone in their late teens? Where are you getting this from? Even if you can substantiate it with the results of a study or something, it seems so counterintuitive that I'd be hard-pressed to suspend my disbelief regardless.

So, you won't let little things like facts get in the way of your ridiculous beliefs? Then I won't bother you again.

 

[HK-47]

No, unfortunately in Japan, there is a lack of adults being required to go to compulsory education and taking standardized tests so that they can get into a good University...



What constitues a kid, because a large portion of the JRPGs I end up playing, the main characters are of legal drinking age.

The actual high school aspect is just a surface narrative. The actual meat of the story of facing yourself, your worse aspects, is a story that could work with any age group.

 

[Zzoram]

I think I liked Junpei Iori from Persona 3 only because he had a bit of stubble. Seriously, JRPG devs need to use facial hair on characters in their teens/20s more, even if it's only a little bit of stubble.

Also, Hope is mild compared to some of the other girly-boys out there. He isn't even close to being considered a trap.

but the smeared mascara/eyeliner!

 

[water_wendi]

You honestly believe an untrained 25-30 year old can pick up physical skills like martial arts or swordsmanship as well and as quickly as someone in their late teens? Where are you getting this from? Even if you can substantiate it with the results of a study or something, it seems so counterintuitive that I'd be hard-pressed to suspend my disbelief regardless.

If this were the case why is the US military enlistment age limit 42? Old dogs do learn new trick.. its amazing but true. Your life skills are not set in stone by age 20.

 

[Attack You]

Lost Odyssey: I think Mack and Cooke did a great job at solidfying what made Kaim and the others so mature. They provided a worthwhile contrast to the other characters, and I have no problem with them being SUPPORT characters in a game with adults. Real kids to annoying and childish things, too, but you know why? It's because they're CHILDREN! I definately prefer to have 2 children reacting around adults, than to having a world with JUST adults of the same age and maturity (such as in Mass Effect.)

Pretty much the same thing I said in the LO thread almost a couple years ago.

 

[WanderingWind]

If this were the case why is the US military enlistment age limit 42? Old dogs do learn new trick.. its amazing but true. You life skills are not set in stone by age 20.

I was trying real hard to not make this parallel, but it's apt. I joined the Corps at 26 after a lifetime of the only exercise I had gotten was lifting a beer bottle. I now outrun, out shoot and out fight people who joined at 18, and people with more experience than myself.

Conversely, I'm a middle of the pack type of guy, so there are many, many people better than me. But the Army is full of older types who joined later in life. Same with colleges.

 

[HK-47]

Greg should know his stuff. Bioware is an expert in matters about 'delivering the same thing over and over and making the game prettier.' Several JRPGs, such as Persona 4, have a similar level of choice and consequence as recent Boware games. Oh, I know it's not as fun when you can't play 'guess who is Carth!'

I don't know if he's played any other JRPGs but we've a lot of experimentation lately, especially on the DS. In particular, we've slowly seen the transformation of the random battle into more tactical scenarios.

I think a bigger, more interesting issue would be the falling popularity of the JRPG in the Western world.

Not to get all defensive about WRPGs and choice and all that shit, but outside of the big late game decision, where is the choice in Persona 4. It isnt exactly Nocturne in there.

 

[water_wendi]

I was trying real hard to not make this parallel, but it's apt. I joined the Corps at 26 after a lifetime of the only exercise I had gotten was lifting a beer bottle. I now outrun, out shoot and out fight people who joined at 18, and people with more experience than myself.

Conversely, I'm a middle of the pack type of guy, so there are many, many people better than me. But the Army is full of older types who joined later in life. Same with colleges.

i think the reason this notion that older people cannot learn is that once people get done with the things they "are supposed to do" (school, find a job, etc) they just kind of coast seeing things are complete. Not everyone does this but i think its safe to say that lots of people once they hit the "routine" just go with it since in real life we learn things to survive. If next month the entire earth was reduced to radioactive wasteland Grandma is going to have to learn how use a gun and recycle her urine real quick so she can survive.

 

[WanderingWind]

i think the reason this notion that older people cannot learn is that once people get done with the things they "are supposed to do" (school, find a job, etc) they just kind of coast seeing things are complete. Not everyone does this but i think its safe to say that lots of people once they hit the "routine" just go with it since in real life we learn things to survive. If next month the entire earth was reduced to radioactive wasteland Grandma is going to have to learn how use a gun and recycle her urine real quick so she can survive.

Disturbing imagery. :lol

 

[sonicmj1]

You honestly believe an untrained 25-30 year old can pick up physical skills like martial arts or swordsmanship as well and as quickly as someone in their late teens? Where are you getting this from? Even if you can substantiate it with the results of a study or something, it seems so counterintuitive that I'd be hard-pressed to suspend my disbelief regardless.

Flint is a playable adult character in Mother 3, and is the first playable character you use. He is a father of two kids, and he's been around a while. He's relatively experienced. He can level up and gain attributes with the best of them. Similarly, relative novice thief Duster levels up as well over the course of the game, alongside child protagonists like Lucas and Kumatora.

As others have mentioned, Kazama Kiryuu of Yakuza is also in his thirties and gaining levels and experience, not just in Yakuza 1 (where his skills might have atrophied after years in prison), but also in its sequels.

These are just a small selection of examples.

You are overthinking things an awful lot. Adults may not learn quite as quickly as the young, but they can gain experience and "level up" their abilities just as well as anyone. There is nothing remotely inconsistent about an adult of nearly any age going out and becoming better at whatever it is they do the more frequently they do it. That level of interplay between game mechanics and plot almost never exists.

I'm much more inclined to believe in the "marketing monkeys" school of philosophy when it comes to this argument. It's no coincidence that both animation and JRPGs are dominated by young protagonists. Youth has a certain privilege in contemporary Japanese culture, especially in those fields. It's not surprising that publishers and game developers tend to frequently use stories centered around the young.

 

[Fredescu]

You honestly believe an untrained 25-30 year old can pick up physical skills like martial arts or swordsmanship as well and as quickly as someone in their late teens? Where are you getting this from? Even if you can substantiate it with the results of a study or something, it seems so counterintuitive that I'd be hard-pressed to suspend my disbelief regardless.

Yes, it would seem very out of place among all the other hyper realistic RPG mechanics like summoning a comet from space for a small amount of damage, or a sentient spaceship taking over the mind of a jed spectre.

 

[KtSlime]

While a person can learn at any age, it is defiantly easier the younger you are. If you don't believe me, lets look at athletes, which would probably have the most in common with fictitious people with swords fighting to save the world.

Most all athletes have been training for their entire life, I can't think of a single case of an athlete that started to learn a sport at the age of 25 to enter it. Except maybe ridiculous things like some athletes changing to different sports, but that is only because they are already celebrities, and even then they are rubbish at the new sport and quit soon.

Go ahead, I dare you, pick a sport, get good at it, and get invited to a major league, or the Olympics. If you can do that, I will resign my stance, give up NeoGAF, and eat crow (and I'm vegetarian). Adults just typically are not suited for these things.