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[DXB-KNIGHT]

Did anybody read the 2005 Gamespot April Fools joke? It's posted on his home page. Funny stuff! Makes you wonder who the real fools were that day.

I can't copy and paste here cause I'm using my Wii,

Here you go

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146958.html?page=4

APRIL 1--In the world of underdogs, few are getting as little respect as Nintendo's upcoming console, code-named Revolution. An overwhelming majority of industry analysts have stated that the favorite to win the next-gen console battle will be the PlayStation 3, with the remaining experts saying that Microsoft's Xbox 360 will take advantage of its head start to market, making it tough to beat.

However, Thomas Runte, a self-proclaimed analyst who frequents message boards under the handle "Miyamoto_Mojo," thinks differently.

"We expect Nintendo's Revolution, based on its price and immense catalog of downloadable games, to be the market leader by 2010," Runte told GameSpot News. "Nintendo is going to be one heck of a competitor for the gaming pie, and from the looks of it, I think they are going to get a rather huge slice."

Runte sees the ongoing concern over prices of consoles and games as the major factor in his analysis. The Revolution is almost guaranteed to be the cheapest console when its hits the market, with some projections going as low as $199 for the system.

"Sony and Microsoft will have game development costs much higher than that of the Revolution. The higher costs to develop for [the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360] will be passed on to consumers. This isn't the case with Nintendo's Revolution," said Runte. "I wouldn't be surprised if its games, first- and third-party, were $39, or even cheaper. If you had the choice to pay $40 or $60 for a game, which would you choose? Nintendo is rocking the game industry. They've got the right idea. Soon their superior strategy will pull them ahead."

Innovation is also a key selling point for the console says Runte. The console's controller, which is shaped like a TV remote, uses motion sensors to effectively simulate swinging a sword, casting a fishing line, or shooting a gun.

"I've heard about the controller and some of the projects that Nintendo is working on. It's really very impressive and should tap heavily into the non-gaming market. The possibilities [with the controller] are almost limitless, and I heard from a source that there are already early builds of the Revolution's handwriting-recognition technology. Gamers will eventually use the controller to 'write' answers, allowing Nintendo to bring its popular Brain Training games to the Rev. That'll definitely move systems in Japan. [Nintendo president Satoru] Iwata is a genius--pure and simple."

Runte also thinks that timing favors Nintendo. The Revolution will be able to play games from Nintendo's older consoles, the Sega Genesis, and Hudson's TurboGrafx-16.

"Remember, today's gamers grew up playing Mario Bros. and Zelda, some of the best games of all time. They're out there now as the industry's main consumers. The ability to play thousands of games, all priced in the five-dollar range, without leaving the house is very attractive. Gamers don't want to buy a PS3. They prefer a good system with nostalgia over a system with prettier graphics. Games are meant to be one thing--fun."

Runte says it's not only that Nintendo has "superior strategy" and is "totally awesome"; it's Nintendo's rivals' weaknesses that give the Revolution the advantage. He dismisses the competition as a non-factor and had particularly harsh words for Sony.

"Sony has yet to come out of the pit stop after the first lap. Folks, when this race started, naysayers said Nintendo would not have enough under the engine to compete with Microsoft and Sony. Trying to one-up Nintendo like they did with them wanting to make a Revolution-style controller after it was revealed and oohed and aahed over... Sony won't let anyone else have time in the light. Down with Sony. I am going to take a bat to my PS2. Nintendo is back in a big way. I think Nintendo will own them all. I believe they are on the path to domination once again. I think they finally are giving people what they want and continuing to give them things they never thought of."

Runte wasn't done touting Nintendo's future after the phone conversation with GameSpot News. In a follow-up e-mail, he wrote, "OMG!!! Zelda on teh DS roolz!!!11!1!!1!1 Chrono Trigger downloadable? Nintendo >>>>> M$ and Sony. They don't stand a chance! W00t!"

One pro-Sony analyst, who wished only to be known as "Devil_Dante420," responded to Runte's comments. He told GameSpot News, "Whatever. Runte is such a noob. The PS3's graphics are far superior to the Revolution games. Gamers are getting older, they want a machine that caters to an older, mature audience. Zelda is like totally lame. Final Fantasy, now that's a series that can carry a console."

Steve "4Runner" Downes, another self-proclaimed "analyst," is still sticking with his original projection that the Xbox 360 will dominate the next generation. "The Xbox 360 is just better than the lame PS3 and Revolution. I don't care that they're not even out yet, the 360 is just better. Just watch noobz, the world will stop when Halo 3 is released. [Sony and Nintendo] should just give up now."

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Did anybody read the 2005 Gamespot April Fools joke? It's posted on his home page. Funny stuff! Makes you wonder who the real fools were that day.

I can't copy and paste here cause I'm using my Wii,

Seems it is actually from 2006. Still pretty funny but not quite as insane.

 

[Spirit Icana]

I never saw the whole joke before. Malstrom took mere bites of it for the home page and made it look and sound real until I reached the end and saw "April 1st." I couldn't stop laughing.

The whole joke makes it too obvious.

 

[ksamedi]

It's kind of pointless, however. The reason people are into Wii Fit in the first place is that they don't enjoy other games. I mean the system is practically predicated on players who always loved Mario Kart but never cared to buy hardware in their lives (or bought it late in the generation). People might move upstream. But they were destined to move upstream. They have a hardcore mentality. Most of them are likely to start young, and so a natural evolution occurs anyway. But getting as far as Mario Kart or NSMB when they always had a proclivity to those games is hardly worthy of a great theory. There are likely to be few remaining people who have yet to game and find they have a voracious habit of it.

Distinctions are incredibly important because the list fails to address the different mentalities at play here. Most people don't start out at the games on the bottom of his list. In fact, many people are drawn there and don't get out. Some people are drawn into gaming because of GTA and Max Payne. Others are drawn into it because of Madden. They all have different tastes, and they're all likely to go into certain directions guided by those tastes. In fact, you could probably classify gamers by their collections. You know the gamer types. EA gamers, Nintendo gamers, fringe gamers, etc. And the list isn't useful in telling you the kind of mentality that a gamer is likely to have. If he wants to say that there are those who slowly discover gaming, well then obviously. If he wants to make a theory of it and fit it into Nintendo's grand strategy, then there must be more to it. Again, I think the reasoning in my last post is much more likely.

Highly doubtfull. Watching people play is really not that fun at all. I'm willing to admit that many gamers are curious to what gaming is by seeing games like GTA, Madden and stuff like that but the moment it takes too much time to get something back from the game (in the form of entertainment) people lose interest. Non gamers are not willing to invest time into something that doesn't give them a pleasent experience right from the get go. What Nintendo is doing differently is entertaining people the moment they pick up the controller. Wiisports is an example of this, Brain Training, Mario, Nintendogs, Wiiplay, Wiifit, all hugely succesfull games. People don't mind playing them because they don't have to invest time to understand them, their entertainment value is instantly clear.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Anyone knows why the Ubi thread has been closed? I liked it

Common Gaf Ubi has deserved it -.-

 

[Mariah Carey]

I suspect moving upstream is not exactly like how some of you are looking at it. When Wii takes Final Fantasy, we could be looking at a new age of high tier titles centered on the unique qualities of the Wii.

Exactly. There will eventually be a "hardcore" Wii audience, but that doesn't necessarily mean the games they play will be anything like what are currently considered hardcore games. Just like the focus of today's core games (open worlds, cinematics, experience) is different than core games of yesteryear (difficulty, repetition, performance).

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Good Hardcore Games sell on Wii, even Red Steel sold over 1 million units when the hardwarebase was small and it was not good. 3rds don t get it and i hope some will get crushed, like Ubi.

 

[charlequin]

It's kind of pointless, however. The reason people are into Wii Fit in the first place is that they don't enjoy other games. I mean the system is practically predicated on players who always loved Mario Kart but never cared to buy hardware in their lives (or bought it late in the generation). People might move upstream. But they were destined to move upstream. They have a hardcore mentality.

This is exactly the sort of inaccurate reasoning that the article is addressing. No one starts out as a hardcore gamer, and no one is "destined" to become one. The reality is that at this point in history, there's a surfeit of entertainment and hobby options available to people, and these forms compete with one another for time and attention. Hobbies that don't have good entry-level options bleed adherents and dscend into nichedom -- look at something like historical wargaming or tabletop RPGs.

Videogaming has had a lot of good entry points for kids thanks to Pokemon, Maple Story, Neopets, cellphone games, and what have you, but it hasn't had almost any entry points for older people for some time, and the price/complexity point of the HD systems is noticeably less accessible than previous generations. The Wii and DS have both sensibly been positioned as entry points, and we've seen the concrete effect of this on the DS in Japan (with core-gamer franchises seeing sales upticks in the wake of all the "non-games"' success) and I still expect something of the same will eventually occur down the road on the Wii.

 

[cartman414]

It's not just that, some people just can't deal with the shift to 3d no matter how many games they played.

My sister for instance, was always WAAAY better than me at 2d platformers, I'd always have to get her help to clear the annoying set of jumps with the 1 tile wide platforms and massive bottomless pits in the mario games. But she just can't play the 3d games at all, not due to lack of general gaming skill or trying, just that the jump from 2d to 3d increased the amount of things to keep track of beyond the level where she felt it was worth it. She was used to the 2d games where she was a master and didn't understand why the same game in 3d should be so much more difficult.

She played lots of games, and she still has a SNES that she plays, but she just could never get into the 3d platformer/action games.

She will play 3d racing games or shooters though.

There's the thing. 2d and 3d platformers are apples and oranges. The former have relied more on twitch reflexes, precision jumps and whathaveyou, while the latter are more rooted in exploration.

Contra 4 and Mega Man Powered Up are about as hardcore as it gets.

 

[ksamedi]

This is exactly the sort of inaccurate reasoning that the article is addressing. No one starts out as a hardcore gamer, and no one is "destined" to become one. The reality is that at this point in history, there's a surfeit of entertainment and hobby options available to people, and these forms compete with one another for time and attention. Hobbies that don't have good entry-level options bleed adherents and dscend into nichedom -- look at something like historical wargaming or tabletop RPGs.

Videogaming has had a lot of good entry points for kids thanks to Pokemon, Maple Story, Neopets, cellphone games, and what have you, but it hasn't had almost any entry points for older people for some time, and the price/complexity point of the HD systems is noticeably less accessible than previous generations. The Wii and DS have both sensibly been positioned as entry points, and we've seen the concrete effect of this on the DS in Japan (with core-gamer franchises seeing sales upticks in the wake of all the "non-games"' success) and I still expect something of the same will eventually occur down the road on the Wii.

Fully agreed.

 

[border]

Kind of surprised, but Maelstrom's (I'm still convinced it's Lapsed) actually responded to criticisms that some GAF posters had to his articles. Border, Liabre Brave, Sapient Wolf, check it out.

Given the extent of the response and the strange compulsiveness of it, I'd say he has gotta be former or current GAF.

HD consoles do not "excite the market" because they've been stupid enough to price themselves out of the market. The lowest-priced deal you can find is the awful 360 Tardcade Pack, and it's still $80 more than most consumers are looking to spend on a traditional system. I don't expect PS360 to start doing Wii's numbers as soon as they hit $200, but I imagine they will be putting in a much better showing than they are now.

I still ultimately disagree that people are distrustful of production values. His only salient counterpoint ("People disliked Star Wars prequels because they had special effects") tends to fail because the movies grossed a few hundred million dollars and were generally liked. The backlash against them is limited to fan communities and often has to do with aspects beyond the special effects. Not to mention that there are several blockbusters per year that are equally as spastic and CG-laden, and they go on to rake in dollars and rave reviews.

This is why Wii Sports is the game of this generation while the 'production value' games are having the market go, "Meh."

The market has said "Meh" to production values-oriented games? I think if you asked Bungie, Rockstar, Epic, Ubi, etc they'd probably tell you otherwise. Despite the smaller installed base of HD consoles it seems like their big franchises are selling as much as they ever did. Gears of War and Assassin's Creed were new IPs that have done bigger numbers than pretty much any new IP on the Wii (well any new IP that wasn't bundled with hardware).

 

[pete_townshend]

Videogaming has had a lot of good entry points for kids thanks to Pokemon, Maple Story, Neopets, cellphone games, and what have you, but it hasn't had almost any entry points for older people for some time

Not really true at all

Second Life
Guitar Hero
Rock Band
The Sims
World of Warcraft
Everquest
Popcap games

These are all hugely popular adult 'entry point' games. Cell phone games also fit more into the adult category, IMO.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Highly doubtfull. Watching people play is really not that fun at all. I'm willing to admit that many gamers are curious to what gaming is by seeing games like GTA, Madden and stuff like that but the moment it takes too much time to get something back from the game (in the form of entertainment) people lose interest. Non gamers are not willing to invest time into something that doesn't give them a pleasent experience right from the get go. What Nintendo is doing differently is entertaining people the moment they pick up the controller. Wiisports is an example of this, Brain Training, Mario, Nintendogs, Wiiplay, Wiifit, all hugely succesfull games. People don't mind playing them because they don't have to invest time to understand them, their entertainment value is instantly clear.

Those types of games have been around for generations. Nintendo simply made it their strategy to evolve the industry. In fact, that is the reason why distinctions are needed. There are those who are simply geared toward an experience like Wii Sports where gratification is instant and it's accessible yet intuitive, and it is not likely that they will adapt any other instincts. Others are likely to start out with GTA and take a different arc. I consider both casual gamers, but they're two completely different kinds. That they need instant feedback probably means that for most of them that will always be true.

This is exactly the sort of inaccurate reasoning that the article is addressing. No one starts out as a hardcore gamer, and no one is "destined" to become one. The reality is that at this point in history, there's a surfeit of entertainment and hobby options available to people, and these forms compete with one another for time and attention. Hobbies that don't have good entry-level options bleed adherents and dscend into nichedom -- look at something like historical wargaming or tabletop RPGs.

Videogaming has had a lot of good entry points for kids thanks to Pokemon, Maple Story, Neopets, cellphone games, and what have you, but it hasn't had almost any entry points for older people for some time, and the price/complexity point of the HD systems is noticeably less accessible than previous generations. The Wii and DS have both sensibly been positioned as entry points, and we've seen the concrete effect of this on the DS in Japan (with core-gamer franchises seeing sales upticks in the wake of all the "non-games"' success) and I still expect something of the same will eventually occur down the road on the Wii.

People are "destined" by the way they are born. I never had the mindset or personality to do radio work. That's in my genes, and there's nothing I can do about it. In a way, we are typecast early on. Life is simply about finding and exploring what we are good at. Some people are just more likely to become gamers than others, and it usually is not difficult to identify. These people naturally gravitate toward the medium. All of the popular systems sublimate those instincts. The NES, SNES, PS, PS2, GB, and GBA were all excellent entry level systems. The ecosystem of the industry was always predicated on those systems drawing in so many types of gamers. That's why they were so popular, and it is only now that we are seeing a divergence of hardcore and casual mentality.

Obviously Nintendo lowered the barrier of entry while everybody else was trying to raise it. I've been arguing for years that it is not entirely healthy for the industry. No industry can ever bow to the hardcore audience and expect to satiate the casual. By definition the casual consumer has a completely different motivation and will bolt if his needs aren't attended to. Nintendo's brilliance was in catering to that and expediting the natural growth of the industry just as Sony did before them with the Playstation brand.

However, if someone buys Wii Fit, they do so with a specific motivation. They get into the industry because of Wii Fit and everything the game and the system represent. So it is very unlikely that someone will diverge from that path because to get into other types of games would require a different mindset. Perhaps they stretch themselves a bit, but is Mario Party really a huge step out, and does this really signal a huge move "downstream"? Or are there really huge splits in the market and people are limited to their bubbles of taste? Are booming software sales simply a reflection of Nintendo's market leadership and the demographics they command? I believe that people are creatures of habit. The more you look at people, the more that becomes true. I am not talking about abstract theories. I am talking about how people operate, and to talk about how far they would go, we would first need to talk about their predilections to begin with.

Otherwise an audience simply becomes an aggregate. I mean the DS has only sold 70 million. Of course you're going to see great software sales across the board. It's practically the system of choice in Japan, and you're going to see more of a hardcore presence with so many RPGs. However, there is also a dark side. It all has to do with audiences who are buying the system, and it's no surprise that you can see that through software sales. Divining this stuff isn't a matter of shifts on a theoretical ladder. It's about demographics.

 

[SickBoy]

Yes, not every casual listener will become a die-hard audiophile, but every die-hard audiophile has been a casual listener.

This relation between the tiers is what the author is trying to illustrate with the audio example . Whether all casuals goes hardcore or not is beside the point.

I'll put it simply: disagree. There's no "many," "some," or other qualification, just the suggestion of causation. (And indeed, later he seems to suggest the "lower tier" is ultimately a transient market -- "what is the fad are you going to chase once the ‘casual games’ have run their course?"). Even if I'm misreading him, I think he ascribes way too much value to "upstreaming," when I think the majority of people with game consoles are happy to stay on the low end -- and it's been that way for a long time.

At any rate, I have a bunch of other criticisms, not the least of which is his overall view of the market, the idea that Nintendo is going to force out its competitors and the manner in which its presented is incredibly simplistic.

I think the Wii and DS are brilliant, and they've been visionary (and they've deservedly done great) but I think this article is a Nintendo fantasy.

 

[border]

I have plenty of bands and musical acts that I'm passionate about but I don't even own a CD player, much less a home stereo.

There's a weird flipside to that argument, where you could just as easily say that when people become passionate about games they will want to play in HD with cutting-edge graphics.

 

[RobertM]

I have plenty of bands and musical acts that I'm passionate about but I don't even own a CD player, much less a home stereo.

There's a weird flipside to that argument, where you could just as easily say that when people become passionate about games they will want to play in HD with cutting-edge graphics.

There is no simple way to become anything, it's not that linear, and will take some kind of spark for the to engage in or garner a huge interest in a particular activity. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices and weight your interest, and most of the time there will be one dominant one. You will have interest in other things, but you probably stick with that interest until there is another spark or something changes in your life. It is reflective with the casual audience; they have some interest in gaming, but that is not their dominant interest, and their transition to becoming hardcore is fairly low unless they never had a dominant interest to begin with or there is that spark.

The article is full of holes and he uses the underlining nature of linearity to support his argument

 

[Jim Sterling]

I take it that, after hearing the buzzword "casual" thrown around so much by the industry, we're now going to have the buzzwords "downmarket" and "upstream" and "big blue swimmy ocean" instead?

 

[FLEABttn]

Everquest

These are all hugely popular adult 'entry point' games.

Maybe moreso than it used to be, but no. No no no no no.

 

[onipex]

If you apply everything he has written to Japan then almost all of it is right. The PS3 is pretty much niche and the Wii will soon start taking the AAA Japanese games from it. I think that has to happen for the Japanese publishers to survive in that market.That or they have to put their games on the 360 with a more western approach.


He doesn't come off as a fanboy to me. He seems to have more interest in the Nintendo's business strategy than anything else.

 

[gabe90]

Thanks op for posting this. Extremely interesting read and even with the clear pro-nintendo slant, it should be of interest to any gamer.

 

[kame-sennin]

I think he's trying to say that Nintendo will continue to be more successful than MS or Sony. He claims that, eventually, Nintendo will expand (not take away) the "top-tier" market that MS and Sony are banking on, because all the "bottom-tier" gamers will eventually migrate their way up. In that sense, MS and Sony will want a piece of that expanded pie, but won't get much (if any) because Nintendo will establish themselves as THE company to do what they want with that newly expanded market.

Edit: I see where this guy's coming from. It's like he's using Innovator's Dilemma as some sort of prophet to prove everyone on the internet that he is right and that the rest of the industry is wrong.

No, the values that Nintendo is bringing to the market can not co-exist with the values that are already established and championed by Sony and Microsoft. This is the nature of "disruption". As you mentioned, Malstrom heavily references the Innovators Dilemma. Christensen, the author of that book claims that the disruptor will bring new customers up market while simultaneously converting old market users to the new value. If Christensen/Malstrom/Iwata are correct, games like Link's Crossbow Training, and Mario Kart Wii will bring new consumers up market (getting non-gamers into racing and FPS with easy to use peripherals) while converting old users to the new values (motion controls). Metroid Prime 3 would be a higher tier example of what Iwata calls a bridge game in that it shows the benefits of the new values (remote pointer/motion controls) to traditional, old market users. Here's a quote from Iwata and Miyamoto on bridge games:

"Iwata: I think that although a lot of people would find the FPS games really fun, many have this image that it’s really hard to bridge the gap in difficulty between the two.

Miyamoto: Right, and I really felt there was room for a game that would bridge that gap, which is why I created Link’s Crossbow Training. Since you use the Wii Remote to aim, it’s a really comfortable way of playing an FPS."

And no, Nintendo will not settle for casual gamers. They will target the hardcore, they're too greedy not to:

"I understand that some experts argue that our success is short-lived and temporary. So, now we need to make efforts to [offer] services and titles that can appeal not only to those who have never played games but also to those who play them hard." - Iwata

 

[RobertM]

No, the values that Nintendo is bringing to the market can not co-exist with the values that are already established and championed by Sony and Microsoft. This is the nature of "disruption". As you mentioned, Malstrom heavily references the Innovators Dilemma. Christensen, the author of that book claims that the disruptor will bring new customers up market while simultaneously converting old market users to the new value. If Christensen/Malstrom/Iwata are correct, games like Link's Crossbow Training, and Mario Kart Wii will bring new consumers up market (getting non-gamers into racing and FPS with easy to use peripherals) while converting old users to the new values (motion controls). Metroid Prime 3 would be a higher tier example of what Iwata calls a bridge game in that it shows the benefits of the new values (remote pointer/motion controls) to traditional, old market users. Here's a quote from Iwata and Miyamoto on bridge games:

"Iwata: I think that although a lot of people would find the FPS games really fun, many have this image that it’s really hard to bridge the gap in difficulty between the two.

Miyamoto: Right, and I really felt there was room for a game that would bridge that gap, which is why I created Link’s Crossbow Training. Since you use the Wii Remote to aim, it’s a really comfortable way of playing an FPS."

And no, Nintendo will not settle for casual gamers. They will target the hardcore, they're too greedy not to:

"I understand that some experts argue that our success is short-lived and temporary. So, now we need to make efforts to [offer] services and titles that can appeal not only to those who have never played games but also to those who play them hard." - Iwata

They can target anyone they want at this point, the perception that Wii is for non-gamers/casuals will be there in the eyes of the core and the developers. If that is the case a year or so from now, the third party support that garners to core gamers will not be there, and if it's not there, the core won't be there to support the system.

If by hardcore they mean Nintendo fans, they are already there.

 

[Link Man]

They can target anyone they want at this point, the perception that Wii is for non-gamers/casuals will be there in the eyes of the core and the developers. If that is the case a year or so from now, the third party support that garners to core gamers will not be there, and if it's not there, the core won't be there to support the system.

If by hardcore they mean Nintendo fans, they are already there.

What about in the eyes of the new gamers and new third parties/developers who entered with the Wii?

 

[Mgoblue201]

I am trying to understand the physical applications of Christiansen's point. In my view the videogame industry is still largely predicated on technology. It's not that the Wii is simply less sophisticated of a product in terms of technology. The software itself cannot do certain things that a more powerful system can. Nintendo themselves refuse to do things that some hardcore gamers have come to expect. I don't know how Christiansen explains this conversion, but we are talking about the very being of the product, and that is something nearly impossible to give up for some.

If we are talking about motion controls exclusively, then it is debatable, though there might be some give to that. Sony and Microsoft are already well entrenched with their consoles, and it is the software that provides their life blood. Millions of gamers are not likely to give up that position entirely, even those who own Wiis, so a conversion would not be willing for a big segment of the gaming population. Next generation probably will be different, however.

And there is a large divide between playing an actual FPS and Link's Crossbow Training. The latter is a glorified target practice game. It's almost a more robust version of Duck Hunt. It's easy to get those types of gamers to accept anything when your whole goal is to reach them. It's another thing to get them to embrace the real meat of a new genre.

 

[Hero]

In my view the videogame industry is still largely predicated on technology.

And that's why you're wrong. Software sells the hardware, not the other way around.

 

[D.Lo]

And there is a large divide between playing an actual FPS and Link's Crossbow Training. The latter is a glorified target practice game. It's almost a more robust version of Duck Hunt. It's easy to get those types of gamers to accept anything when your whole goal is to reach them. It's another thing to get them to embrace the real meat of a new genre.

Obviously, but maybe after playing LCT they will try whatever 2nd party FPS Nintendo will unveil at E3. Bam, you have a million people converted to the previously alien and confusing FPS genre in two steps.

Honestly, I think the biggest missed opportunity by third parties is for a decent FPS on the Wii. Metroid is the best by a huge margin, but it's not really an action game at its core and has another dozen layers of hardcore ('upmarket'?) obscurity even on top of the rather complicated controls.

Medal of Honour Heroes 2 was a great effort by a small-time dev, but was laden with being a sequel to a spin-off of a tired series in a tired setting (WW2), not so inviting to noobs. And it wasn't exactly afforded the funding of probably the 360's 40th best shooter.

 

[Mgoblue201]

And that's why you're wrong. Software sells the hardware, not the other way around.

And the software is only possible because of the hardware. This generation proves more than anything that hardware strategy can make a company sink or swim. It's like a good script. Without it, the actors are lost. And hardware defines the parameters of the software. Of course software is the thing that ultimately sells hardware. But the hardware is still the cornerstone, the ultimate building block. You misconstrued my argument anyway. I merely meant to say that the technology defines what the software can do in the first place. Pushing the bounds of technology isn't just to satiate technophiles with meaningless bells and whistles and bullet points. It can lead to a more sophisticated product. Nintendo's strategy of of putting the onus on ease of use and new control schemes is what proved to be more popular. But pushing the envelope with the technology under the hood is still something that can really assist the software, and that is why some gamers shouldn't expect to be forced to convert. Sony misstepped this generation, but I think there should be room for different strategies because it directly impacts the software.

Obviously, but maybe after playing LCT they will try whatever 2nd party FPS Nintendo will unveil at E3. Bam, you have a million people converted to the previously alien and confusing FPS genre in two steps.

Honestly, I think the biggest missed opportunity by third parties is for a decent FPS on the Wii. Metroid is the best by a huge margin, but it's not really an action game at its core and has another dozen layers of hardcore ('upmarket'?) obscurity even on top of the rather complicated controls.

Medal of Honour Heroes 2 was a great effort by a small-time dev, but was laden with being a sequel to a spin-off of a tired series in a tired setting (WW2), not so inviting to noobs. And it wasn't exactly afforded the funding of probably the 360's 40th best shooter.

The entire point is that it's not incremental. LCT is still inside that particular "bubble". A traditional FPS is not. I mean you could take almost any genre and make it another Wii Sports prototype. That does not mean that they care about the genre. It means that they care about that type of experience. People don't play LCT because it's anything like an FPS. And so you're not going to find a ton of people who suddenly crave more. You see it all the time in movies. People will always go see the light, fun, easy watching affair mostly regardless of genre, and just because someone watches a movie of a certain genre doesn't mean that they're going to start exploring the really hardcore stuff. It's a lateral movement with no hierarchy. Demographics are much more important than conversions.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

And there is a large divide between playing an actual FPS and Link's Crossbow Training. The latter is a glorified target practice game. It's almost a more robust version of Duck Hunt.

It's more than that - it has third person shooter segments where you have to move around and aim simultaneously. It is both a lightgun game and a simple FPS/TPS.

 

[Mgoblue201]

There is no argument that it is somewhere halfway up the evolutionary scale. It's not like casual gamers are completely adverse to controlling a character, and I'm sure there are even small contingents who move on to play more complicated games such as Mario Galaxy. But who are the people buying the game? I mean the game didn't sell that exceptionally. The argument is whether or not LCT can act as a bridge game, and it can't fulfill that request if a person doesn't buy it (it's a multi million seller, but I simply mean to say that it is not in the same echelon as other supposed stepping stone games). And what of the people who do? Are the third person segments going to stimulate a greater enjoyment or simply act as a boundary for what people can do?

My parents are actually decent examples. Neither play videogames anymore. My dad used to play Pilotwings and flight simulators because he was a plane buff. I'd call him almost a genre player, someone who has a hobby and seeks it out over multiple mediums. Videogames don't matter to him. They're just means to an end. My mother used to play some Atari and NES games. The most she ever reached was DKC2, though now she plays things like Breakout on the computer. She had limited reach and somewhat limited skill. If Nintendo targets people like these, then there is only so much that can be done.

And if someone has a gravity toward the FPS genre, I think that a game like Red Steel would look naturally appetizing. It rarely works out that people need a game like LCT to tell them what is natural. FPS games on their surface are going to be attractive from the start. A lot of games are such; the kind that easily integrates the player. In fact, the list is almost more useful for a hardcore player as he starts out since he will get into the hardcore stuff only with a slow appetite for it that builds and builds (a lot of hardcore games are, by definition, not very accessible). These people usually start young though. However, people who choose LCT are probably going a different direction. It's not used as a stepping stone. It's used as a "lite" experience.