Astral Dog
Member
still Shocked @ Shut up and Dance
am i a bad person for feeling a bit sad for Kevin
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Black Mirror S3 |OT| The Future Is Bright - October 21st on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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I don't think people have touched on it much because that scene/episode makes things overtly clear.
Men Against Fire spoilers:
Those pros would forever be outweighed by the con that it's literally inhumane and completely unethical. That's not even including the fact the implant erases their memory of getting the implant and you're stuck with it even out of service.
I think the real harrowing takeaway from that episode is that we will inevitably go down that road of hyper desensitization brought on by technology, and you could argue we're already on it with things like drone warfare. War is some truly awful shit and we'll only advance on ways to distance soldiers from the effects of it both physically and mentally.
I think the real harrowing takeaway from that episode is that we will inevitably go down that road of hyper desensitization brought on by technology, and you could argue we're already on it with things like drone warfare. War is some truly awful shit and we'll only advance on ways to distance soldiers from the effects of it both physically and mentally.
Gnome Scat
Member
I don't get all the buzz behind Hated in the Nation.
cj_iwakura
Member
S1 E3 is not something to watch when you're thinking about a past relationship. That hurt.
eyeball_kid
Member
San Junipero. I'm sure it's been said already, but the episode not a black mirror on society. More like a mirror with a silver lining. After watching TWD last night I'm not going to complain about a feel-good episode, and it was a decent sci-fi story with some solid acting, but it doesn't really fit the mantra of the show.
It seemed to me an odd view of what a digital afterlife could be though. Why wouldn't people be able to interact with the real world so that people could continue to work on their life's work within the virtual space? I can't imagine not getting bored of a party town, even if you can switch the decades.
Irishmantis
Member
Okay I watched E1of sS1
The fuck did I just watch????
The fuck did I just watch????
More_Badass
Member
A story about the power of the internet and social media?
Irishmantis
Member
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Edit: Sort of a spoiler I guess.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I mean, I said this before, but it's basically Mean Girls but not as clever. There's nothing special about the "science fiction" aspect of it. The satire being so heavy handed doesn't help either.
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Oh weird, they fixed the Canadian "broadcast" order to match what everyone else got.
Feel the Swift
Member
Just watched the first season and it messed me up. Definitely not going to binge any more.
just watched it, it was alright but there's a limit to how serious one can take a plot about
robotic killer bees
San Junipero was pretty good, but it was missing the little something that makes a truly special BM episodes
I'm saving Men Against Fire for tomorrow, from what I've seen here it's supposedly one of the weaker episodes
in my opinion, Shut Up and Dance is the only real stand-out episode this season
chaobreaker
Member
I really shouldn't have watched Playtest and Shut Up and Dance in one sitting. I feel sick to my stomach. That's what this show does to you sometimes but damn those Black Mirror twists always ruin me.
I really wish I could say me too, but... yeah. He still had his youth? I don't know.
No sympathy for the hacker though. Even if they do expose pedos, it's through indiscriminately hacking and peeping at innocent people and hosting fights to the death. That's twisted.
No sympathy for the hacker though. Even if they do expose pedos, it's through indiscriminately hacking and peeping at innocent people and hosting fights to the death. That's twisted.
I just did the same thing. After the relative lightness of episode S301, I was not prepared for how dark things would get.
3 eps left. Love this show. Up there with the best Twilight Zone episodes.
jellies_two
Member
In shut up and dance was the partner in crime also in the same boat because maybe I missed the part where a third party confirmed it as happened to the others in one way or another.
I honestly think Shut Up & Dance might be the best overall EP this season thinking back on it. Just fucked up that I guessed
but overall arc was Black Mirror as fuck on so many levels.
He was a pedo due to the first shot of him interacting with the kid because how odd it seemed to me
I think partly for his youth but also because he's looking at pictures but not acting on it? Raises the question as well if the hacker's vigilante justice matches the level of the crime. I dunno either, it's a tricky question because the episode did a good job of making you sympathetic to his plight but it's a near 180 once the reveal kicks in. The scariest thing about the episode was that even in the privacy of your own home you could be watched and recorded to be blackmailed with and that's already happening now.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i love this series omg
Nah, a good one
Evoking that conflict of emotions in you is the entire point of that episode I think. Just like (S2 spoiler)
White Bear, it humanises the victim of the punishment before it reveals their crime. You're forced to realise that even the people who do terrible things are still people like you with fears desires and the capability to do good things. I love both of these episodes for that reason. This point was made much more eloquently upthread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=221140680#post221140680
The One Who Knocks
Member
Man (Men?) Against Fire
Definitely agree with your unspoilered sentence.
Part of what weakens the episode is that the pacing is absolutely weakened due to the conversation in the underground bunker, and the conversation in the prison. Both add very little value (although at least the one in the bunker adds the eugenics aspect into the episode) and only really serve to beat you over the head with the message that hadn't exactly been subtle anyway.
I think there are elements of that in quite a lot of episodes in the season, but this one in particular it was very much to its detriment I feel.
RoaringMdog
Member
I hope you did that on purpose :')
tauroxd
Member
Oooooooohhhh... I get it lol.
Chuckie
Member
Considering Men Against Fire and why I actually did like it:
For me the scariest part wasn't the implants on the soldiers that made the 'enemy' seen as monsters, it was the villagers that hadn't gotten any implants, so did not see the 'enemy' as monsters but wanted them wiped out anyway
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I thought it was far fetched too.
Turns out scientists are actually working on them. Welp. https://is.gd/eQV8vE
Clark W Grizwald
Banned
Watched the first 2 episodes. I enjoyed the first one better then the second. The second one was set up well but just fell apart for me. I'm actually kind of confused what happens. Still though after the first 2 nothing comes close to the first 2 seasons...yet.
Ha! That is pretty awesome.
First um yes? Lots of people post racist stuff with their real names right now on Facebook etc even with a risk of backlash that leads to loss of job etc
Second, people could always use dog whistles as excuses for their downvoting. We've seen racism problems already at AirBnB. (Anecdotally, I have an acquaintance who always rates visible minority drivers on Uber 4 stars or less because he doesn't "like their music station" when he enters the car)
Third, racism is institutional and hierarchical ranking systems like the ones in Nosedive will reproduce that discrimination if evolving from out current society. Due to historical factors of wealth, incarceration etc most black people will probably start out with lower ranking than white people. There are wealthy, attractive, educated people who are still racists (or don't care enough about racism to take a stand) and in Nosedive their votes are worth more than the lower ranked people. It would be self reinforcing system that keeps racism in place.
Also Nosedive kinda touches on this with
Chester and Gordon which [not] surprised isn't being widely discussed. Who is Gordon and why is everybody siding with him? We figure she is probably not racist due to her dream home/husband fantasy but her inaction due to group pressure (are some of those people silently/subconsciously racist?) contributes to the only visible black guy shown in her workplace losing his job...
There's a key difference between White Bear and Shut and Dance
which is that White Bear is punishment by the state while Shut and Dance is blackmail by vigilantes. The state backs up their requests with force but the law allows people to report blackmail and recognizes those people as victims. The troll vigilantes at no point 'forced' the CEO or Flynn to do anything and didn't even appear to be seeking money (the classic blackmail goal). The CEO could have gotten ahead of the racist email story and reported the blackmailers. Flynn could have fessed up to his wife (although we just got his side of the story and don't really know what happened with Mindy just it at first seemed at first that Kenny 'only' jacked off to porn. Kenny, the CEO etc continued along with the requests because they thought they could get away with their original crime instead of facing the consequences. Essentially the troll vigilantes kept posing the question to Kenny: what would you be willing to do so you could continue to be a pedophilia in private? Turns out Kenny was willing to rob and kill instead of going to jail/counseling... and that's not on the vigilantes
Astral Dog
Member
i see your point but they kinda forced him with threats to expose the video to ALL his contacts (in minutes ) so it would "ruin" his life, in a way, its not just the shaming, or the job but his loved ones as well, Kevin said he looked at one picture so its implied he doesnt do it regularly and he is portrayed as an insecure, nervious teenager so it makes sense he would be scared, at no point in the episode did i thought they gave Kevin a third choice, or care to do so.
that would be the worst fault about the episode imo, they dont show anything about the vigilantes or their true intentions.
Edit: plus he HAD a lot of "encouragement" from the other guy, he was too scared/not willing to rob a bank without that guy telling him how his life would be over
I thought Nosedive was classic Balck Mirror, but Playtest really lacked focus. It was a glorified Haunted House story with too much Edge product placement. The start (discusssion around the singularity) really didn't add anything and it felt like Chekov's gun when they brought the girl back into the story.
I hope the others are better. It's strange, videogames have the potential to say such powerful things and yet it feels as if the content never really reflects that in any type of gaming narrative - especially tie ins (I haven't seen Gamer to be fair, which my students reckon is a pretty good representation of the power of simulation).
I hope the others are better. It's strange, videogames have the potential to say such powerful things and yet it feels as if the content never really reflects that in any type of gaming narrative - especially tie ins (I haven't seen Gamer to be fair, which my students reckon is a pretty good representation of the power of simulation).
Shut and Dance spoilers
That's actually brilliant storytelling as Kenny had a lot of encouragement from Flynn but Flynn didn't know what pictures Keny had wanked off too (as neither did the viewers at the time). Kenny's not dumb and Flynn had already suggested earlier that continuing with the phone commands over just wanking was stupid. If Kenny was really listening to Flynn he would have left then. Flynn turning around and pretending that 'just wanking' as very bad was transparently because Flynn thought his life with his wife and kids would be over not Kenny's. Us viewers were lead to believe that Kenny was very impressionable and insecure for listening to Flynn over just wanking but with hindsight it's obvious that Kenny was committed to following the phone commands without Flynn. He was scared and nervous sure but he was committed.
And no shit getting caught wanking to kids could ruin his life with his loved ones. He knew that when he was wanking. The whole point of blackmail is you have a choice: either pay $20,000 (or leave your car key hidden by the tire as in this case) or face the consequences for your $2 million CEO job when your racist email is leaked. Most people choose to try to avoid the consequences with the 'cheaper' option. Heck I would probably behave like Kenny ― I'm not judging him like that... but he knew the alternative choice
The vigilante's intention was revealed as trolling no? I think a deeper reveal of the vigilantes would have turned this into some batman superhero shit and detracted from the story. The viewer is lead to identify with Kenny until the very end and not revealing the vigilantes keeps us on that track
And no shit getting caught wanking to kids could ruin his life with his loved ones. He knew that when he was wanking. The whole point of blackmail is you have a choice: either pay $20,000 (or leave your car key hidden by the tire as in this case) or face the consequences for your $2 million CEO job when your racist email is leaked. Most people choose to try to avoid the consequences with the 'cheaper' option. Heck I would probably behave like Kenny ― I'm not judging him like that... but he knew the alternative choice
The vigilante's intention was revealed as trolling no? I think a deeper reveal of the vigilantes would have turned this into some batman superhero shit and detracted from the story. The viewer is lead to identify with Kenny until the very end and not revealing the vigilantes keeps us on that track
Astral Dog
Member
i understood Flynns intentions, what i said is Kevin probably would not had gone that far himself without Flynn pushing him more for his own reasons, i would need to watch again but i got the impression Kevin was about to give up, wich makes this a bit more gray.
One important thing i cant say is if Kevin won the fight and commited murder, that would make him much worse but there was not clear way of knowing what happened
One important thing i cant say is if Kevin won the fight and commited murder, that would make him much worse but there was not clear way of knowing what happened
Men Against Fire had the
worst main character ever. God was this guy dumb. Had such a one track mind about everything, and he never critically thought about anything that happened to him, he just did what his gut told him until the ending where he actually did have to make a decision.
Also, I hate, hate, HATE the trope of characters constantly getting headaches or some shit signified with a stupid sound effect, and then every time they're asked about it they're like "Nah, nah, I'm fine don't worry about it"... Fuck characters that do that. Shit's annoying.
Also, I hate, hate, HATE the trope of characters constantly getting headaches or some shit signified with a stupid sound effect, and then every time they're asked about it they're like "Nah, nah, I'm fine don't worry about it"... Fuck characters that do that. Shit's annoying.
I can't binge this stuff either. Messes me up for days. I'm still reeling from episode 2 season 3.
The One Who Knocks
Member
It doesn't really make a huge difference what order you watch it in, but ideally I would have started with season one and continued from there, if only because the first episode is such a striking introduction to the show. Starting from the beginning also helps you to see how the scale and budget gradually increased. The entire show (except maybe one episode) is very much worth watching, so you might as well start from the beginning. The show occasionally throws out small references to previous episodes too.
I'm trying to decide whether rating system or a like system would be worse?...
plentyofmilhouse
Member
I started this way back at season one episode one today. Gonna go for one a day until we're all caught up. I've seen bits and bobs in the last few years but never done a straight watch so pretty excited.
I was wondering the same -
could it have been faked? Perhaps the line confirms he was actually a paedophile
until that point. Perhaps this explains the restaurant seen?
Shut Up and Dance
Wasn't Kenny like 15-16 years old since he could drive as a learner but hadn't gotten his license? Any pics of girls around his age would be considered child porn, like if he had any left over pics from a past girlfriend or a friend sharing a lewd pic of a girlfriend (more likely considering how awkward Kenny was). But I guess the scene at the beginning when he was being nice to a little girl and him mentioning it was only one pic before the fight was supposed to suggest he was looking at an 6-8 year girl or something. We didn't really have enough details like what kind of pic it was for it to wipe away sympathy for Kenny. After all, him being caught looking at pics of girls his age or slightly younger would still ruin his life since he would be classified as a sex offender. Oh wait, I forgot that his mom also said something at the very end suggesting something more sinister, but we dunno what material the Troll actually sent to his contacts other than the video from his webcam of doing the deed.
Shut Up and Dance:
Easily my least favorite episode of Black Mirror yet. So much about it just felt years too late to be relevant. It also probably didn't help that there's some movie with a similar premise that's had trailers going on for a while. Black Mirror, at least through it's first two seasons always felt pretty topical, the ideas were something that felt really relevant now or that with the current trajectory of technology could be relevant in the near future.
This season is really the first time that I've felt like they were really lagging behind pop culture. First with Nosedive being a concept that almost entirely had been done by another show before and now Shut Up and Dance. I think the use of the troll face was the part that ruined it for me the most. I hadn't really been enjoying the episode up to that point but that really was the moment when it lost me entirely.
It would be like doing The Waldo Moment a few years from now, not only would it be something straight out of real life but it would be past the point of relevance. The whole troll face, Anonymous hacker thing just feels too old at this point for the typical brand of Black Mirror cutting satire. Arrested Development's 4th season had a joke about Anonymous and that was years ago, and even at the time that was already late to the party bringing that up. Sure it's not explicitly stated to be that but using the troll face at all just felt so out of place. They could have come up with their own thing.
Even without that it was still ultimately a pretty underwhelming episode, they just didn't really do anything that unique with the premise. It's missing a unique tech hook and it doesn't have a unique story hook to make up for it. Even when Black Mirror tells fairly ordinary stories they always have had some novel way to twist things.
Hopefully the last three episodes will redeem this season, I enjoyed Playtest but so far on the whole this season hasn't really lived up to expectations.
This season is really the first time that I've felt like they were really lagging behind pop culture. First with Nosedive being a concept that almost entirely had been done by another show before and now Shut Up and Dance. I think the use of the troll face was the part that ruined it for me the most. I hadn't really been enjoying the episode up to that point but that really was the moment when it lost me entirely.
It would be like doing The Waldo Moment a few years from now, not only would it be something straight out of real life but it would be past the point of relevance. The whole troll face, Anonymous hacker thing just feels too old at this point for the typical brand of Black Mirror cutting satire. Arrested Development's 4th season had a joke about Anonymous and that was years ago, and even at the time that was already late to the party bringing that up. Sure it's not explicitly stated to be that but using the troll face at all just felt so out of place. They could have come up with their own thing.
Even without that it was still ultimately a pretty underwhelming episode, they just didn't really do anything that unique with the premise. It's missing a unique tech hook and it doesn't have a unique story hook to make up for it. Even when Black Mirror tells fairly ordinary stories they always have had some novel way to twist things.
Hopefully the last three episodes will redeem this season, I enjoyed Playtest but so far on the whole this season hasn't really lived up to expectations.
Finished Shut Up & Dance.
I think the best episode was the first so far. It's the most whole. I thought Playtest
Didn't think it was particularly special, the last few minutes are especially harrowing though, specifically the call from his mum.
I think the best episode was the first so far. It's the most whole. I thought Playtest
fell completely short at the end
Zeus The Dino
Member
He's 19.
Shut Up and Dance
I really dont get how people dont think kenny wasnt looking at child porn. Some of yall need to clean your ears, I got it when in the forest and the guy he was fighting said "how young" and then kenny just started to cry.
tauroxd
Member
Shut up and dance:
In my opinion the only way to see it should be in order. In the end it really doesn't matter the order but why deviate from the release order?
Of course Kenny was watching child porn. He said the he watched just a picture, who in 2016 watch mainstream porn in the form of pictures, or a single picture, instead of videos when it is too easy to find any video? The way he reacted at the "I know what you did" type of message doesn't really make sense if it was just porn. I mean, I would be stupefied if I got cuaght in that way but not to the extend of Kenny. Kenny installed a lock in his door. Kenny decided to rob a bank, try to commit suicide and then try (or successfully, that's not exactly sure) kill a man. Any of those things make really sense if it was just normal porn? No, it makes sense if it was child porn. And remember the scene with Kenny and the little girl, it takes a new meaning with the fact in mind that he is into little girls.
The episode is my favorite of the season and I love how it really makes it obvious that it was more than just normal porn but you don't really grasp it until the call from his mom and the final montage with all the victims and their crimes.
The episode is my favorite of the season and I love how it really makes it obvious that it was more than just normal porn but you don't really grasp it until the call from his mom and the final montage with all the victims and their crimes.
In my opinion the only way to see it should be in order. In the end it really doesn't matter the order but why deviate from the release order?
Episode 3, "Shut Up and Dance":
Oh, I see this is already a point of contention.
So do guys think Kenny was actually looking at child porn? When I first finished the episode, I was 95% that it was just something the trolls faked and added on to make his punishment worse.
The more I think about the episode though, the more it seems like that is indeed what he was actually looking at. His final plea of "I only looked at pictures", him not correcting his opponent at the end when he suggested it, and his general sense of panic seemed greater than it should have been for purely being recorded masturbating. His interactions with children at the beginning of the episode also stand out as well now.
Was this episode intentionally written to be ambiguous on that detail?
The more I think about the episode though, the more it seems like that is indeed what he was actually looking at. His final plea of "I only looked at pictures", him not correcting his opponent at the end when he suggested it, and his general sense of panic seemed greater than it should have been for purely being recorded masturbating. His interactions with children at the beginning of the episode also stand out as well now.
Was this episode intentionally written to be ambiguous on that detail?
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