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Black Mirror S3 |OT| The Future Is Bright - October 21st on Netflix

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Eidan said:
I rewatched Nosedive last night, and I still think it's the strongest of the season. Simply from a direction, cinematography, score, and ambition level, it has no peer in the entire series. It is unrelenting in its vision of an Instagram hellscape, and the sense of dread the characters feel at the sign of any minor transgression is palpable. The fact that real world equivalents like credit scores and Sesame Credits exist honestly helps make it the most horrific vision of the future alongside 15 Million Merits.

I honestly don't get where the naysayers are coming from. This Nosedive is what Black Mirror is all about.
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People being way too constrained about what Black Mirror should be. As far as I'm concerned if they're telling ANY story involving society and technology then it's fair game. And tbh it was a far scarier horror story than the other 2 episodes that followed.

and yeah Nosedive definitely is the best looking episode (of the 4 i've seen so far, or all of Black Mirror easy). Helps that Joe Wright directed it, he's made plenty of amazing looking films.
 
Eidan said:
I rewatched Nosedive last night, and I still think it's the strongest of the season. Simply from a direction, cinematography, score, and ambition level, it has no peer in the entire series. It is unrelenting in its vision of an Instagram hellscape, and the sense of dread the characters feel at the sign of any minor transgression is palpable. The fact that real world equivalents like credit scores and Sesame Credits exist honestly helps make it the most horrific vision of the future alongside 15 Million Merits.

I honestly don't get where the naysayers are coming from. This Nosedive is what Black Mirror is all about.
Click to expand...

I'd say it has a couple of peers throughout the series - but agree on the whole for sure. It's an excellent episode. It explored these ideas in an incredibly intelligent and realistic way. It showed restraint where restraint should be shown and its logic was infallible.

Discotheque said:
People being way too constrained about what Black Mirror should be. As far as I'm concerned if they're telling ANY story involving society and technology then it's fair game. And tbh it was a far scarier horror story than the other 2 episodes that followed.

and yeah Nosedive definitely is the best looking episode (of the 4 i've seen so far, or all of Black Mirror easy). Helps that Joe Wright directed it, he's made plenty of amazing looking films.
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Agreed.

I don't get people who level this criticism at Playtest either. "It didn't really have a message or say anything." What? It showed what happens when you unbridle
the human imagination using technology. When you let technology explore the human brain without limits.

The human imagination is a survival tool. A prediction mechanism. Specifically, it's there to predict risks, to predict dangers. To predict bad things so that you can avoid them.

In Playtest, this not-quite-ready technology unhinges this guy's imagination, taking him to the worst-case scenario he can imagine: "I get back home and mom has dementia, too. There goes my mom - and there goes the rest of my life." The tech takes him to the end-point of his imagination, takes him to a living nightmare that actually kills him from trauma. His last moments, screaming 'mum', were totally harrowing for me - I've had dreams that have ended with screams like that and it's a reprieve to wake up. Imagine if you never woke up.

So fucking good. I suppose it affected me particularly strongly because I play a lot of VR and there are definitely times when you take the VR headset off (esp. after playing a horror game) and you're a bit like "fuck. That was too much". This episode totally captured what I could imagine the end-point of that feeling being like.
 
I thought Playtest was the weakest episode of the season (although it was still entertaining),
because what happened was physically impossible and because I thought the double twist ending actually made the original ending less impactful. The second ending just felt like a cheap stunt.
 
Langdon Alger said:
I thought Playtest was the weakest episode of the season (although it was still entertaining),
because what happened was physically impossible and because I thought the double twist ending actually made the original ending less impactful. The second ending just felt like a cheap stunt.
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How come re the bolded? I guess (Playtest)
the 0.04 seconds thing was the only thing I could imagine being unrealistic, although how many clicks does the human brain go through each second? If you were locked into 100% imagination/dream state, how much 'simulation' would your brain itself be able to go through in one second?

I thought
the double twist was clever enough because it revealed his 'truer' fear but also slammed you with a really tragic edge to the whole thing (common to BM episodes).

I was like "It's going to be his dad. His fear will be taking care of his dad w/ dementia forever". Then was like "Oh shit, no, his true fear is developing dementia himself". And then during the 'homecoming' scene I was like "Ah, shit, his mum actually has dementia, perhaps that's why he never came back" as a sort of regular tragic ending, but then that melts away as his truest fear comes to the fore: "Holy fuck he's afraid of it happening again, with his mum, which is relatively likely". And the true dreamscape realisation of that fear literally killed him. Then you're left with the harrowing prospect of his mum, who hasn't heard from him in weeks/months/years, finding out that her son died doing a one-day temp job in England, after losing her husband not long before. All because of this technology in testing.

I guess whether it was cheap or not comes down to
your perspective. I didn't expect the double twist ending to happen at all and it was like a double-trauma to me after the already brutal first 'ending'. Really heavy.

He also acted both perfectly. Having worked with
people with dementia
and the horror that can surround it... Yeesh

It's crazy that different people genuinely believe such radically different episodes are the weakest. Most in here seem to think Nosedive is the worst, and others say Man Against Fire.
 
Violet_0 said:
you can't disconnect the consciousness from the body. What they are effecitively doing is creating a digital clone that goes on to exist in SJ, but the actual, original person still dies and ceases to exist. They always seem to get that wrong in Sci-Fi stories
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Seeing as how the Christmas episode is based around that concept, I'm sure Charlie Broker is clearly aware and considers it completely irrelevant to how the characters perceptions in the story.
 
TheOddOne said:
- Reddit: Ask Me Anything With Charlie Brooker and Annabel Jones, the showrunners of Black Mirror (Entertainment Weekly did a recap of some of the responses).
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Oh, this is good

Re: White Christmas
"
In an early draft of White Christmas Oona Chaplin's character (Greta) had a kid -- there was a scene in which 'Cookie Greta' saw 'Real Greta' reading a story to her son, and then realised she'd never hold or truly 'be with' her kid again. But it was so totally bleak it overpowered everything else so we GOT RID OF THE KID.
"
Wow, that would have been messed up
 
I still don't really understand the purpose of the cookie. All it does are mundane chores. Considering how advanced the world was, and how routine Greta's life was, I'd think everything we saw the cookie do could've just been automated.
 
BigAT said:
Episode 3, "Shut Up and Dance":

So do guys think Kenny was actually looking at child porn? When I first finished the episode, I was 95% that it was just something the trolls faked and added on to make his punishment worse.

The more I think about the episode though, the more it seems like that is indeed what he was actually looking at. His final plea of "I only looked at pictures", him not correcting his opponent at the end when he suggested it, and his general sense of panic seemed greater than it should have been for purely being recorded masturbating. His interactions with children at the beginning of the episode also stand out as well now.

Was this episode intentionally written to be ambiguous on that detail?
Oh, I see this is already a point of contention.
Click to expand...

Throughout the episode it was really weird to me that he would go to such lengths just for jerking it. The child porn twist made sense of everything.
 
Eidan said:
I still don't really understand the purpose of the cookie. All it does are mundane chores. Considering how advanced the world was, and how routine Greta's life was, I'd think everything we saw the cookie do could've just been automated.
Click to expand...
I think the cookie's purpose is more so that it is always automated specifically to how you like it. You don't have to configure the toast to pop exactly when you like it with test runs, it just does it. You don't need to list what events on your calendar you consider important, the cookie already knows and is aware of what to prioritise or dismiss based on the circumstances. Going away for holiday or taking an unscheduled break? You don't have to set that up on the automated system, the cookie can just do it. Going shopping? You don't need to create the shopping list, the cookie can do that and furthermore it can order your details without you having to set it up or think about what you neeed. It's automation which is always configured precisely as you want without the 'bother' of calibrating or configuring it to different situations; the calibration is also automated, and I think that's the primary difference. It's a smart home which you don't really need to adjust or configure yourself tailored precisely to your needs and desire, and I think that is the main distinguishing factor.
 
San Junipero is my favorite episode of Black Mirror. The scripting and acting is sublime. Also beautifully shot. I'll get into it more when I get to a keyboard.

The One Who Knocks said:
I think the cookie's purpose is more so that it is always automated specifically to how you like it. You don't have to configure the toast to pop exactly when you like it with test runs, it just does it. You don't need to list what events on your calendar you consider important, the cookie already knows and is aware of what to prioritise or dismiss based on the circumstances. Going away for holiday or taking an unscheduled break? You don't have to set that up on the automated system, the cookie can just do it. Going shopping? You don't need to create the shopping list, the cookie can do that and furthermore it can order your details without you having to set it up or think about what you neeed. It's automation which is always configured precisely as you want without the 'bother' of calibrating or configuring it to different situations; the calibration is also automated, and I think that's the primary difference. It's a smart home which you don't really need to adjust or configure yourself tailored precisely to your needs and desire, and I think that is the main distinguishing factor.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the cookie is based on the predilections of 29 y/o Greta. People's preferences change.
 
Started watching other seasons of this show. Just watched the series premiere and...

It's kind of not... good. It was funny and all, but there's no way I buy that the public would seriously hold it against the prime minister if he didn't fuck a pig on live television. No way in hell.
 
Goodstyle said:
Started watching other seasons of this show. Just watched the series premiere and...

It's kind of not... good. It was funny and all, but there's no way I buy that the public would seriously hold it against the prime minister if he didn't fuck a pig on live television. No way in hell.
Click to expand...
Maybe not face-to-face, but they weren't getting the public's opinion face-to-face. They were getting it through the lens of social media and Youtube views and polls. Much like Hated In The Nation's mob mentality and how the people didn't see their online activity as having little consequence. Plus, I imagine many would rather vote for the guy's ruined reputation over a woman being tortured and killed.
 
Eidan said:
I still don't really understand the purpose of the cookie. All it does are mundane chores. Considering how advanced the world was, and how routine Greta's life was, I'd think everything we saw the cookie do could've just been automated.
Click to expand...

Isn't that commentary about how people misuse advanced technology? Most of us have miniature computers in our pockets capable of performing a multitude of advanced tasks and we use it to look at videos of cats. They have created digital clones of people and use this technology to make perfect toast.
 
Goodstyle said:
Started watching other seasons of this show. Just watched the series premiere and...

It's kind of not... good. It was funny and all, but there's no way I buy that the public would seriously hold it against the prime minister if he didn't fuck a pig on live television. No way in hell.
Click to expand...

Personally I think it's in the bottom couple of episodes and don't get why people love it so much. It's good, but the episode immediately after is infinitely better and actually fulfils the promise.

I do think you're underestimating just how much people care about princesses, though. I think it could happen in the right circumstances.
 
SomTervo said:
I do think you're underestimating just how much people care about princesses, though. I think it could happen in the right circumstances.
Click to expand...

The PM is also told in that episode that if he didn't go through with it, the safety of his family wouldn't be guaranteed (they were basically threatening his family). I re-watched it recently and you do see how much pressure is put against him.
 
I agree with Nosedive being much better than people initially gave it credit for ITT.
Seeing people criticise it and then go on to praise Playtest blew my mind a bit, Playtest is terrible in comparison (in almost every way)
 
SomTervo said:
I don't get people who level this criticism at Playtest either. "It didn't really have a message or say anything." What? It showed what happens when you unbridle
the human imagination using technology. When you let technology explore the human brain without limits.

The human imagination is a survival tool. A prediction mechanism. Specifically, it's there to predict risks, to predict dangers. To predict bad things so that you can avoid them.

In Playtest, this not-quite-ready technology unhinges this guy's imagination, taking him to the worst-case scenario he can imagine: "I get back home and mom has dementia, too. There goes my mom - and there goes the rest of my life." The tech takes him to the end-point of his imagination, takes him to a living nightmare that actually kills him from trauma. His last moments, screaming 'mum', were totally harrowing for me - I've had dreams that have ended with screams like that and it's a reprieve to wake up. Imagine if you never woke up.

So fucking good. I suppose it affected me particularly strongly because I play a lot of VR and there are definitely times when you take the VR headset off (esp. after playing a horror game) and you're a bit like "fuck. That was too much". This episode totally captured what I could imagine the end-point of that feeling being like.
Click to expand...
This is a good way of looking at Playtest. Well said
 
SomTervo said:
Personally I think it's in the bottom couple of episodes and don't get why people love it so much. It's good, but the episode immediately after is infinitely better and actually fulfils the promise.

I do think you're underestimating just how much people care about princesses, though. I think it could happen in the right circumstances.
Click to expand...

FortuneFaded said:
The PM is also told in that episode that if he didn't go through with it, the safety of his family wouldn't be guaranteed (they were basically threatening his family). I re-watched it recently and you do see how much pressure is put against him.
Click to expand...

Ya, here's the thing, I don't quite buy the idea that they'd threaten his family over something like this. I guess it comes down to how much people would care about a princess. I don't live in the UK, would people go this nuts over say, Kate Middleton being kidnapped?
 
Goodstyle said:
Ya, here's the thing, I don't quite buy the idea that they'd threaten his family over something like this. I guess it comes down to how much people would care about a princess. I don't live in the UK, would people go this nuts over say, Kate Middleton being kidnapped?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be more like Malia being kidnapped? Popular daughter of a popular leader
 
Goodstyle said:
Ya, here's the thing, I don't quite buy the idea that they'd threaten his family over something like this. I guess it comes down to how much people would care about a princess. I don't live in the UK, would people go this nuts over say, Kate Middleton being kidnapped?
Click to expand...

It's a difficult one.

> times are changing. There's sliiiightly more scepticism about the royals nowadays. If this were 40 years back it might be a lot more likely to happen than now
> Kate Middleton is pretty well loved but she's no Diana (yet)
> the whole discussion in the episode is about pitching publicity against publicity. The state against the government. Whose publicity matters more? How much will the PM lose if he does nothing and she dies? Can he take that chance?

Unfortunately, though, how much you 'buy' threatening his family or not isn't really relevant - it's in the story. They do this.
 
Alright, that's fair. I'll say this though, this was definitely not the episode I expected for a Black Mirror series premiere given the show's rep. Also, I laughed like hell at the scene where
the Prime Minister actually fucks a pig on live television to a dramatic score and shocked faces.
It was a bit of a stretch to get to that point, but it still was a laugh riot.
 
Cool how much opinions on this show can vary, because I just watched San Junipero and pretty sure I would rank it as the worst Black Mirror episode, below The Waldo Moment and all.

I don't even have any particular standout complaints about it, the episode just happened and I didn't care about it at any point.
 
More_Badass said:
This is a good way of looking at Playtest. Well said
Click to expand...

TY! How did you rate it?

Ventilaator said:
Cool how much opinions on this show can vary, because I just watched San Junipero and pretty sure I would rank it as the worst Black Mirror episode, below The Waldo Moment and all.

I don't even have any particular standout complaints about it, the episode just happened and I didn't care about it at any point.
Click to expand...

Incredible isn't it.

Goodstyle said:
Alright, that's fair. I'll say this though, this was definitely not the episode I expected for a Black Mirror series premiere given the shows rep. Also, I laughed like hell at the scene where
the Prime Minister actually fucks a pig on live television to a dramatic score and shocked faces.
It was a bit of a stretch to get to that point, but it still was a laugh riot.
Click to expand...

It probably helps if you've read any of Brooker's columns or watched his news satire show ScreenWipe/NewsWipe/etc. It's the sort of situation he would make a joke about while taking the piss out of the royalty or TV-culture, just spun into an entire episode. The absurdity is crucial to the whole thing.
 
Watched the first three episodes of season 3 last night. I'm sure this has already been stated, but despite being a good episode on its own terms Nosedive lost a little punch for me after I realized it was literally the same story as the Meow Meow Beenz episode of Community.

I'm not sure what to think about the ending revelation in Shut Up and Dance.
I get that they were playing with the audience's identification with and empathy for the character. But I feel that it lessened the impact of the episode's story-- it was scarier when you thought Kenny was being put through this hell just for doing something that everyone does and that he really shouldn't have even been embarrassed about in the first place.
 
I think there is a message behind Playtest, it's just not particularly well delivered, my take is
it is about human connections. The main character has basically left his mother and spent his time traversing the world, posting his life on social media etc but he never answer his mother's calls. His fling he meets in London tells him to answer her calls (as a bridge to reforming the relationship) but he refuses, and then in not answering the call (and her ringing while he is in the VR room ) causes it all to malfunction and kill him. So if he had kept contact with his mother he would never have died because 1) she wouldn't have rang thus causing the malfunction and 2) he wouldn't have had to take part in the experiment at all because he could have rang his mother after he was robbed, to lend some cash) so I'd say the message there is pretty blatant. And of course there is the ending irony of him literally screaming (calling) out for his mother as he is dying, all too late. It's weak in that it's not clear if technology is the solution or the villain.
 
BlazingDarkness said:
I think there is a message behind Playtest, it's just not particularly well delivered, my take is
it is about human connections. The main character has basically left his mother and spent his time traversing the world, posting his life on social media etc but he never answer his mother's calls. His fling he meets in London tells him to answer her calls (as a bridge to reforming the relationship) but he refuses, and then in not answering the call (and her ringing while he is in the VR room ) causes it all to malfunction and kill him. So if he had kept contact with his mother he would never have died because 1) she wouldn't have rang thus causing the malfunction and 2) he wouldn't have had to take part in the experiment at all because he could have rang his mother after he was robbed, to lend some cash) so I'd say the message there is pretty blatant. And of course there is the ending irony of him literally screaming (calling) out for his mother as he is dying, all too late. It's weak in that it's not clear if technology is the solution or the villain.
Click to expand...

This is definitely present, but I think it's a secondary theme. I think the main theme is human fear and how technology can take it to unprecedented levels - even if by accident. All the
mum and 'not calling'
stuff was solid backdrop but I don't think it's the heart of the thing.
 
BlazingDarkness said:
I think there is a message behind Playtest, it's just not particularly well delivered, my take is
it is about human connections. The main character has basically left his mother and spent his time traversing the world, posting his life on social media etc but he never answer his mother's calls. His fling he meets in London tells him to answer her calls (as a bridge to reforming the relationship) but he refuses, and then in not answering the call (and her ringing while he is in the VR room ) causes it all to malfunction and kill him. So if he had kept contact with his mother he would never have died because 1) she wouldn't have rang thus causing the malfunction and 2) he wouldn't have had to take part in the experiment at all because he could have rang his mother after he was robbed, to lend some cash) so I'd say the message there is pretty blatant. And of course there is the ending irony of him literally screaming (calling) out for his mother as he is dying, all too late. It's weak in that it's not clear if technology is the solution or the villain.
Click to expand...

That's the point.
 
jett said:
Throughout the episode it was really weird to me that he would go to such lengths just for jerking it. The child porn twist made sense of everything.
Click to expand...

Yup, everyone I've spoken to about this episode had the same thought and so did I. Even some of the things don't make sense like, "I just looked at a picture" who would say that about being recorded jacking off? It all clicks once you hear what his mom says to him.
 
Dang it, read a contextless spoiler (right there^). I really think we should have split the threads on this one. It's so easy to ruin an episode with one word.
 
My ranking

EP1
EP2
EP4
EP5
EP6
EP3

I loved the top 3. The bottom three I feel weren't good at all. The last one especially bored me out of my mind. Good concept, but Britain is boring. EP5 had a good concept but I didn't like the structure. EP3 I got 15 minutes in before I turned it off.

Nosedive is incredible as is San Juniperio. I find.myself hating any episode of this show that takes place in Britian. It's just not interesting.
 
Violet_0 said:
something that bothers me about San Junipero, and that trope in general
you can't disconnect the consciousness from the body. What they are effecitively doing is creating a digital clone that goes on to exist in SJ, but the actual, original person still dies and ceases to exist. They always seem to get that wrong in Sci-Fi stories
Click to expand...

There have been literal decades of philosophical debate on this subject, it's not cut-and-dried at all - I'm not entirely sure why you think it is?
 
I am surprised by how divisive so many of these episodes are but I guess that's just the nature of Black Mirror.

I watched two more last night.

San Junipero:
Ok first off, were they just mispronouncing Junipero or am I crazy? Other than that I thought it was a great episode, I'm not surprised to hear after the fact that they purposely varied the tone of the episodes to make the 6 episode run work. It did seem rather upbeat for an episode of Black Mirror but there are some good, dark implications to the entire scenario. This is probably going to be my favorite episode of the season unless the finale episode ends up being really fantastic.

Men Against Fire:
The twist seemed a little too obvious but I didn't mind all that much because of how well the whole thing was put together. Especially that scene in the cell where you find out about the whole purpose behind the implants. That speech really brought everything together. It was a solid episode all around.
 
Shut Up and Dance is really quintessential black Mirror, disturbing, dark twisted, relevant and shades the lines between "good' and 'bad', right and wrong.

Problem is after that l can't take any more, so l'm going to bed to read Retro Gamer.
 
Pryce said:
I find.myself hating any episode of this show that takes place in Britian. It's just not interesting.
Click to expand...
image.php
 
Khoryos said:
There have been literal decades of philosophical debate on this subject, it's not cut-and-dried at all - I'm not entirely sure why you think it is?
Click to expand...

because everything you are is in your brain, it's impossible to transfer the "you" into a computer if your body is no longer alive. An identical copy of yourself isn't "you", they exist as a seperate person, you don't experience their thoughts, feelings or new memories they make
 
Violet_0 said:
because everything you are is in your brain, it's impossible to transfer the "you" into a computer if your body is no longer alive. An identical copy of yourself isn't "you", they exist as a seperate person, you don't experience their thoughts, feelings or new memories they make
Click to expand...

But every cell in your brain is different than it was ten years ago. If they can be replaced with organic cells without that making you a different person, why can't they be replaced with silicon cells?
 
Man Called Aerodynamics said:
Watched the first three episodes of season 3 last night. I'm sure this has already been stated, but despite being a good episode on its own terms Nosedive lost a little punch for me after I realized it was literally the same story as the Meow Meow Beenz episode of Community.

I'm not sure what to think about the ending revelation in Shut Up and Dance.
I get that they were playing with the audience's identification with and empathy for the character. But I feel that it lessened the impact of the episode's story-- it was scarier when you thought Kenny was being put through this hell just for doing something that everyone does and that he really shouldn't have even been embarrassed about in the first place.
Click to expand...

I thought he was wanking to his sister. Seemed weird for her to exist for no real reason other than to get the virus on the pc and it'd explain him being so terrified. At first I was kind of against the child porn ending but I dunno, it's just so fucking bleak and morally ambiguous that I like it more now in retrospect

Regarding the Nosedive praise; for me I don't care how well shot, acted or directed it is. There's nothing drawing me in emotionally. It's a standard, simple observation on the nature of social media but in being so astute it creates a cast of characters you can't possibly give a shit about. I didn't care what happened to the lead. I pretty much wanted terrible things to happen to everyone. It's not saying anything so staggeringly profound that it makes an hour of awful people enjoyable.
 
Binged all 3 seasons over the past few days (just got HITN left), really like the show, been wanting some Twilight Zone like show and heard people raving about this. Charlie Brooker is always a plus.

My favourites in no particular order:

White Christmas
San Junipero
15 Million Credits
The Entire History of You (feel like a black sheep putting this on my list lol, don't see many people including this one!)

Will bang out HITN tomorrow.
 
Khoryos said:
But every cell in your brain is different than it was ten years ago. If they can be replaced with organic cells without that making you a different person, why can't they be replaced with silicon cells?
Click to expand...
Violet_0 said:
because everything you are is in your brain, it's impossible to transfer the "you" into a computer if your body is no longer alive. An identical copy of yourself isn't "you", they exist as a seperate person, you don't experience their thoughts, feelings or new memories they make
Click to expand...
I feel like this is like the Star Trek transporter "problem", where every time you transport yourself you are basically producing a clone on the other end.

At some point you just have to accept that consciousness is either biological or it isn't.
 
Khoryos said:
But every cell in your brain is different than it was ten years ago. If they can be replaced with organic cells without that making you a different person, why can't they be replaced with silicon cells?
Click to expand...

This actually isn't true at all. That would actually be pathological. From the time you are an adult you have most of the brain cells you will ever have. Different connections are made between the cells especially as you learn but the vast majority of the brain does not experience neurogenesis. Who you as a person are is encoding on those connections. The problem for me is that as a science person without the preservation of the physical brain the your original consciousness can never exist. A copy of the data inside your brain may exist but that's not you. That's part of what lessens the happiness of the end. The copies of their consciousness get to experience happiness but the originals are dead.
 
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