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[OrbitalBeard]

What? How does that make your statement any less ridiculous? So if I'm using the avatar I have now and I say BB is far and away the best entry in the Soulsborne series or that it's hands down the hardest of the Soulsborne game that somehow invalidates my opinion?

Of course it does. If you have an icon from Sony, Nintendo, or MS property you're clearly a fanboy and your opinions hold no weight. Didn't you get the memo?

Up until very recently, I had a Little Mac (Punch-Out!!) icon. I've switched allegiances within the past two weeks!

 

[Cyrano]

Farming is a punishment for repeated failure in DeS and BB. Not a necessity. I think using 'repetitive farming' as a point of criticism against the game's design isn't a fair thing to complain about. It's more of a personal gripe. There are so many ways in which the game addresses that it's only ever really an issue to people who struggle with resource management... which isn't artificial difficulty. It's just regular difficulty.

Resource farming typically occurs after repeated failures fighting a boss and it's not a punishment for failure. Taking away half your life bar is a punishment for failure. Resource management is just a question of whether or not you personally want to grind for items.

The issue with it is that it breaks up the flow of play unevenly. Let's say you were getting close to beating a boss around your sixth attempt--if you suddenly have to farm for healing items or whatever, you are forcing the player into a mode of play that doesn't have them focusing on practicing the boss's tactics. Were the loss of these resources even, there would be an argument for it as a punishment (i.e. if you got 20 extra vials after beating every BB boss, it is setting an expectation for the amount of resources you need between one resource node and the next), but since there isn't an even distribution of resources, since the very practice of farming creates an extremely uneven resource pool among players, it's a poor design decision if the purpose is to "punish" the player for failure. Because there's nothing that concretely connects those two losses. You lose vials doing anything, not just fighting bosses, and there's nothing particular about bosses that makes loss of health items more significant (except in the case where you're fighting the boss multiple times--which again, farming in this instance serves as an interruption, not a punishment, to regular play--since regular play in the context of fighting a boss multiple times is to learn the patterns and beat the boss, farming is anathema to getting better at that--it is pure interruption/wasted time).

 

[Sullichin]

Final answer: people find different parts of this series difficult

 

[SarusGray]

Cleric Beast? That boss was a joke. BSB was easy too, you completely nullify everything she does by dodging past her and hitting her in the side or back. Ebrietas was moderately difficult.

You killed all DS3 bosses in one try? You probably far outleveled the content if you expect me to believe that.

is level 80 outleveled at the endgame??? Especially doing a full faith build from the start? I didn't know that. I get it, people find different games hard. Saying I'm overleveled or that your daughter beat the game really doesn't mean much besides the fact that the game might have been harder for you in DS3 while its easier in BB for you.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

*insert Soulsborne game here* feels like a hardcore version of *insert other Soulsborne game here*

The answers provided will be equal.

 

[Host Samurai]

Felt like it was easier due to my play style, aggressive and heavy dodging

 

[Rozart]

Of course it does. If you have an icon from Sony, Nintendo, or MS property you're clearly a fanboy and your opinions hold no weight. Didn't you get the memo?

Up until very recently, I had a Little Mac (Punch-Out!!) icon. I've switched allegiances within the past two weeks!

It's ridiculous. And UC4 is a newly released title. Ofcourse there'll be a large number of people with Nathan Drake avatars around.

Hah. The only people I don't trust are the ones with Popplio avatars.

Spoiler

I kid, I kid.

 

[Beerman462]

Easily

it's the closest to AAA protection value as a souls game

- vastly the superior graphics in the series
Vastly is hyperbolic/subjective- There are pros and cons to all the games. I am still wowed by some areas in DS1. The dragon area in DS2 is super impressive to me and Irithyll area in DS3 is awesome. BB has a very consistent quality, but being the same art style through out is a lot easier. Some see that as a plus I do not.
- the most polished and detailed levels/ares
Again subjective- Areas in DS3 especially are very detailed.
- the best animations by far(enemies and weapons)
Again subjective. I think DS1 still has some of the best animation.

- more composers and they don't come free
Is the music objectively better? Can't prove it.
- more fleshed out weapons and just few with endless clones with reused animations from previous games(cough DS3)
I have the biggest problem with this one. DS3 really upped the game here with the various L2 buffs/alternate attacks.
- longest development time(since 2012)
Duke Nukem forever must be the best game ever then.

seriously it feels like they poured more time and attention creating each weapon in BB than half of the weapons in the other games wish is something i appreciate.

the other games lack all of those especially Dark souls 3.

Dark souls3 by far probably has the lowest budget. I mean they even reused chalice dungeons and put them there for Christ sake :/




edit: oh and the UI was rushed I can't believe this even Dark souls 2 from 2014 had more polished and less rushed UI

Sorry silva, but others forced me to do this...

Of course it does. If you have an icon from Sony, Nintendo, or MS property you're clearly a fanboy and your opinions hold no weight. Didn't you get the memo?

Up until very recently, I had a Little Mac (Punch-Out!!) icon. I've switched allegiances within the past two weeks!

I see you have gone full hypocrite by not responding to my posts. Good show.

As long as you laser focus on my one comment you can ridicule you don't actually have to counter any arguments.

 

[Artdayne]

This is funny.

What if I say that I don't believe you as well when you say BSB is easy and that Ebrietas is "moderately" difficult? You probably far outleveled the content if you expect me to believe that.

See, I turn it around, so what do you have to say about that?

This whole which game is more HARDCORE stuff is ridiculous, like the title HARDCORE is something that one should yearn for in order to be called the "true" Dark Souls gamer or something. So many insecure people here competing over something so ridiculous.

You expect me to believe that someone who lists Cleric Beast as a difficult boss is also someone that beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try? Yes, I have a difficult time believing anyone beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try.

 

[SarusGray]

Sorry silva, but others forced me to do this...

It's not really subjective persay when the proof is in the pudding. There is just a ton more production and money put into Bloodborne. It received the backing of being an exclusive Sony Triple A game. I also look forward to more from software games are coming out exclusively for it too with this budget and care.

You expect me to believe that someone who lists Cleric Beast as a difficult boss is also someone that beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try? Yes, I have a difficult time believing anyone beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try.

lol guess what I had just finished dark souls 2 and I chose threaded cane as my first weapon and went straight to him with 2 blood vials and didn't know what the heck I was doing. I was use to using a shield and mace in the previous game while this one required me to play aggressively. Seriously is it that difficult to understand that I find DS3 easier than BB? (The horrendous camera didn't help also)

 

[NecroGiggles]

They both have different play styles. I have died lots in each game. I think really it's all about if you can adapt to the play style of each. If you try and play BB like a souls game it's going to suck and the same goes the other way around.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You expect me to believe that someone who lists Cleric Beast as a difficult boss is also someone that beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try? Yes, I have a difficult time believing anyone beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try.

Why is that so hard to believe? At my first blind run for Bloodborne Cleric Beast felled me 3 times before I managed to score a win and yet in DS3 I won a good number of boss encounters in my first try, even bosses that the community tend to consider as difficult such as the Pontiff, Aldrich, Dragonslayer Armor, etc. I beat NK on my 3rd try, which means... he is easier to me than Cleric Beast, I guess! lol.

This is such a silly competition. Now I can see why many would view some of the Core souls fans as ridiculous.

 

[SarusGray]

Why is that so hard to believe? At my first blind run for Bloodborne Cleric Beast felled me 3 times before I managed to score a win and yet in DS3 I won a good number of boss encounters in my first try, even bosses that the community tend to consider as difficult such as the Pontiff, Aldrich, Dragonslayer Armor, etc. I beat NK on my 3rd try.

It's fine Laughing Banana. I don't know why the two have to relate to mean that it's hard for people to believe that I found the bosses in DS3 easier for me than in BB. Apparently if I can't kill a boss in one game my first try it means that I most definitely can't beat bosses in a different game with different combat and system.

 

[Beerman462]

It's not really subjective persay when the proof is in the pudding. There is just a ton more production and money put into Bloodborne. It received the backing of being an exclusive Sony Triple A game. I also look forward to more from software games are coming out exclusively for it too with this budget and care.

What proof? This thread is all over the place. You have a 50/50 split proclaiming one better than the other. That is far from conclusive. Everyone's values are different.

It's fine Laughing Banana. I don't know why the two have to relate to mean that it's hard for people to believe that I found the bosses in DS3 easier for me than in BB. Apparently if I can't kill a boss in one game my first try it means that I most definitely can't beat bosses in a different game with different combat and system.

This is what I'm talking about. I have played all the Souls games. I played them in this order. DS1, DES, DS2, BB, DS3. DS1 was by far the hardest play through for me, because it was my introduction. DES was probably second hardest, because it's just hard as fuck despite my experience with DS1. After that I would say it's a three way tie. This probably seems like a cop out, but with those games for me it was just a matter of learning their systems and executing.

 

[Rozart]

You expect me to believe that someone who lists Cleric Beast as a difficult boss is also someone that beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try? Yes, I have a difficult time believing anyone beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try.

The Cleric Beast is a weird one. A friend of mine who struggled with all the other bosses and was completely new to the series managed to beat him on her 2nd try. And I only managed to beat him on my (it I'm not mistaken) seventh.

I still don't know why I struggled so much with that boss.

 

[SarusGray]

What proof? This thread is all over the place. You have a 50/50 split proclaiming one better than the other. That is far from conclusive. Everyone's values are different.

It has more budgeting, I'm not saying one game is better than the other but Bloodborne advertising wise, music composition wise seem much more refined. Cleric Beast theme has incredible production.

 

[Randomizer]

The are so similar in my opinion but perhaps that's because my Dark Souls playstyle is more aggressive and offensive based than most players. Bloodborne is faster and more stylish overall but I like them both equally.

 

[Beerman462]

It has more budgeting, I'm not saying one game is better than the other but Bloodborne advertising wise, music composition wise seem much more refined. Cleric Beast theme has incredible production.

I mean if you say so. I can't even recall the cleric beast theme.

 

[Gbraga]

I don't find it weird at all that someone would think Dark Souls III is easier than Bloodborne, but, unless Bloodborne was their first Souls game and they didn't play it many times, I find it very weird that someone would say the Cleric Beast is more difficult than

Spoiler

Pontiff Sulyvahn

. I died once or twice against the Cleric Beast on my first playthrough, I can beat O&S without dying today without much trouble, I would be insane to say that the Cleric Beast is harder than O&S.

Beat Shadow of Yharnam on my first try, but I don't consider that an easy boss, it was a very intense fight up to the end. I know people who died to the Taurus Demon, they wouldn't call it a hard boss today.

Cleric Beast theme has incredible production.

Best theme in the series, imo.

I mean if you say so. I can't even recall the cleric beast theme.

You're crazy. What's next, you don't remember the Firelink Shrine theme? >_<

 

[Azull]

I don't care what anyone says, the old hunters dlc for bloodborne is easily the hardest souls game/section I've ever played. It just consistently pushed your shit in from the beginning all the way to kos. I had to take a two month hiatus at one point because of fucking ludwig. I platinumed DeS and ds, nothing compared. Fuck that guy man.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I mean if you say so. I can't even recall the cleric beast theme.

One of the things Miyazaki cites as a positive of working with Sony is the production of the music in Bloodborne, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say so.

 

[Cyrano]

I mean if you say so. I can't even recall the cleric beast theme.

Yeah, sadly I can't really recall the BB music without looking it up. Same is true of most of the Dark Souls series too though, so eh. Only a few of the bosses and tracks are themed really well, and thus stick in your mind. Much of these games have no music at all, so I think to say any of them have a memorable soundtrack is somewhat of a misnomer. Memorable bosses certainly--but again, remembering the music to those bosses also tends to relate heavily to their theme.

 

[Gbraga]

I don't care what anyone says, the old hunters dlc for bloodborne is easily the hardest souls game/section I've ever played. It just consistently pushed your shit in from the beginning all the way to kos. I had to take a two month hiatus at one point because of fucking ludwig. Fuck that guy man.

Agreed. It's insane. Took me so long to beat Firesage Cleric Beast :')

Ludwig is so fucking awesome <3 <3 <3

And bosses in the DLC just love to scream like crazy, it's great to make you salty.

Yeah, sadly I can't really recall the BB music without looking it up. Same is true of most of the Dark Souls series too though, so eh. Only a few of the bosses and tracks are themed really well, and thus stick in your mind. Much of these games have no music at all, so I think to say any of them have a memorable soundtrack is somewhat of a misnomer. Memorable bosses certainly--but again, remembering the music to those bosses also tends to relate heavily to their theme.

I feel like the lack of music for most of the game just makes it far more impactful when we do have it, and also more memorable.

Hail the Nightmare didn't need a boss or anything to never leave my mind, truly haunting stuff.

 

[Artdayne]

Why is that so hard to believe? At my first blind run for Bloodborne Cleric Beast felled me 3 times before I managed to score a win and yet in DS3 I won a good number of boss encounters in my first try, even bosses that the community tend to consider as difficult such as the Pontiff, Aldrich, Dragonslayer Armor, etc. I beat NK on my 3rd try, which means... he is easier to me than Cleric Beast, I guess! lol.

This is such a silly competition. Now I can see why many would view some of the Core souls fans as ridiculous.

I don't really care about a competition, I just said that I thought the bosses in DS3 are harder than the base game of BB. I've long held the opinion that the difficulty of individual boss fights can depend on many different variables. How many levels you have, what type of build you are using (magic, sword/shield, two handed, whatever), the type of damage (physical, lightning, magic etc.) what part of a bosses's move set you see in an encounter, I'm sure there are others.

 

[Beerman462]

One of the things Miyazaki cites as a positive of working with Sony is the production of the music in Bloodborne, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say so.

That's great and all, but I just listened to the Cleric beast fight and it didn't do anything for me.

Dark Souls 1 music though. Probably just nostalgia.

 

[Laughing Banana]

My personal opinion:

The world: DS3 is much more interesting/varied than BB, but...

Battle system: the battle system of BB is vastly more superior than DS3. It felt much smoother and more fluid, more engaging.

Weapon selection --> DS3 has much more but in the end the weapon selection in BB felt more focused and concise, where none of the weapons felt like a waste, unlike in DS3.

Bosses --> again, DS3 has more variety but I generally felt more intimidated by BB's bosses than DS3. Probably put this one as a draw.

Story/lore --> BB is much more superior than the two. Though NPC wise DS3 is probably a bit better, although generally speaking both games in terms of NPCs are weak.

HARDCORE --> Who gives a damn.

I don't really care about a competition, I just said that I thought the bosses in DS3 are harder than the base game of BB. I've long held the opinion that the difficulty of individual boss fights can depend on many different variables. How many levels you have, what type of build you are using (magic, sword/shield, two handed, whatever), the type of damage (physical, lightning, magic etc.) what part of a bosses's move set you see in an encounter, I'm sure there are others.

Then why are you posting this:

You expect me to believe that someone who lists Cleric Beast as a difficult boss is also someone that beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try? Yes, I have a difficult time believing anyone beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try.

As if your experience is the irrefutable fact that you just find anyone else not experiencing the same thing so hard to believe?

Also, when you say "base Bloodborne", do you include the Chalice bosses? Because they *are* part of base Bloodborne, you know. The Watchdog and Amygdala Cursed Chalice fights for me outclasses each and every DS3 boss fight in terms of difficulty, in my opinion.

 

[Zocano]

This whole which game is more HARDCORE stuff is ridiculous, like the title HARDCORE is something that one should yearn for in order to be called the "true" Dark Souls gamer or something. So many insecure people here competing over something so ridiculous.

This is the proper way to look at this. Difficulty is such a subjective thing.

[My favorite game] IS BETTER THAN [your favorite game]

 

[SarusGray]

This is the proper way to look at this. Difficulty is such a subjective thing.

[My favorite game] IS BETTER THAN [your favorite game]

This statement is so extremely true and you're right. This is a thread with someones opinion and how they felt and we're all debating and discussing which is more difficult. In the end it really is subjective!

Also that soundtrack didn't do much for me in DS1 so yeah probably nostalgia.

I was gonna reply to ArtDayne but laughing banana pretty much said what I was going to say.

 

[Ardenyal]

I don't know if overall it's easier or harder than souls games but it's definitely a better designed game.

 

[Jawbreaker]

That's great and all, but I just listened to the Cleric beast fight and it didn't do anything for me.

Dark Souls 1 music though. Probably just nostalgia.

Different strokes and all. I consider Bloodborne's soundtrack the best in the "series," followed by Dark Souls III. The first game had some really amazing tracks like "Great Grey Wolf Sif," but it's not as consistent.

 

[Taco Tuesday]

It really is funny how differently people rank these games. I personally found Bloodborne to be much easier. Parrying was much easier and safer, you can carry 20 healing items from the get go, you're super mobile with that crazy long dash. There are definitely some hard ass bosses but on the whole it's easier for me.

 

[Beerman462]

All Soul's games/Bloodborn are equally awesome.

 

[Rozart]

I don't care what anyone says, the old hunters dlc for bloodborne is easily the hardest souls game/section I've ever played. It just consistently pushed your shit in from the beginning all the way to kos. I had to take a two month hiatus at one point because of fucking ludwig. I platinumed DeS and ds, nothing compared. Fuck that guy man.

I took a month long break with Kos. I can get through his first stage with just using two blood vials. But his second stage /wrecks/ me. I beat him on NG+ with zero blood vials left on hand and landed that final blow with just the smallest sliver of health left. Pretty sure my hands were shaking at end. Toughest boss for me for sure.

 

[Cyrano]

I feel like the lack of music for most of the game just makes it far more impactful when we do have it, and also more memorable.

Agreed, but just creating memorable tracks generally was never really something the Souls series has excelled at. Some are themed really well, like Maiden Astraea, but in general I don't think there's anything that's at a level of memorability similar to classic Mario themes or Chrono Trigger or Mega Man. Souls and Bloodborne tracks are solid, to be sure, but I think they are made to be easy to associate (i.e. hearing it reminds you of X rather than X stuck in my mind) rather than easy to remember.

Lady Maria was my personal favorite bossfight in Bloodborne (DLC if we're being asinine) and I feel like the personality in her animations doesn't get nearly the credit they deserve. Loved that fight.

 

[SarusGray]

Agreed, but just creating memorable tracks generally was never really something the Souls series has excelled at. Some are themed really well, like Maiden Astraea, but in general I don't think there's anything that's at a level of memorability similar to classic Mario themes or Chrono Trigger or Mega Man. Souls and Bloodborne tracks are solid, to be sure, but I think they are made to be easy to associate (i.e. hearing it reminds you of X rather than X stuck in my mind) rather than easy to remember.

My boyfriend said he couldn't recall the soundtrack because he was too busy shitting bricks fighting the bosses in these soulborne games so that could be a contributing factor.

 

[Jawbreaker]

My boyfriend said he couldn't recall the soundtrack because he was too busy shitting bricks fighting the bosses in these soulborne games so that could be a contributing factor.

Haha, that's certainly a thing. My cousin is the same way.

 

[Moaradin]

I definitely found BB the hardest because I couldn't hide behind a shield anymore. Had to get decent at dodging things. DS3 was a lot easier for me.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Oh while I am at it why not throw this too, hahaha: the coop/pvp implementation in DS3 vastly trumps Bloodborne *but* some of the work required to level up the covenants in DS3 are just bloody ridiculous, which leads me to --> Bloodborne's trophy hunting is a much, much more enjoyable affair than DS3, which is just ridiculous.

 

[Persona7]

Where in the world did you get that idea?

Dark Souls 3 repurposes Bloodborne's engine. Bloodborne does not use DS2's engine.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199410372&postcount=636

I've tried finding a source about Bloodborne using a "new engine" and can't find anything reliable. However there are multiple interviews with from software employees stating the Dark Souls II engine was developed for next gen use.

 

[Jawbreaker]

The first thing I did with Miyazaki's last two games was max out the music slider. So much better.

Oh while I am at it why not throw this too, hahaha: the coop/pvp implementation in DS3 vastly trumps Bloodborne *but* some of the work required to level up the covenants in DS3 are just bloody ridiculous, which leads me to --> Bloodborne's trophy hunting is a much, much more enjoyable affair than DS3, which is just ridiculous.

Getting all the Proof of a Concord Kept drops was a fucking nightmare. It doesn't help that the Symbol of Avarice refused to drop for me on my first run.

 

[SarusGray]

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199410372&postcount=636

I've tried finding a source about Bloodborne using a "new engine" and can't find anything reliable. However there are multiple interviews with from software employees stating the Dark Souls II engine was developed for next gen use.

I don't know where he got that, it feels nothing like Dark Souls 2 to me....

 

[Artdayne]

Then why are you posting this:



As if your experience is the irrefutable fact that you just find anyone else not experiencing the same thing so hard to believe?

Did you miss my earlier point that you quoted and responded to? I said I don't believe it unless you over-leveled the content. That would be an example of a variable which would significantly change the difficulty of an encounter.

Anyway, I'm a skeptic, I don't believe some random person on the internet when they say they beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try, not under what I would consider fairly normal circumstances. Well, I would believe it if they provided considerable proof of it.

 

[SarusGray]

Did you miss my earlier point that you quoted and responded to? I said I don't believe it unless you over-leveled the content. That would be an example of a variable which would significantly change the difficulty of an encounter.

Anyway, I'm a skeptic, I don't believe some random person on the internet when they say they beat nearly every boss in Dark Souls 3 on their first try, not under what I would consider fairly normal circumstances. Well, I would believe it if they provided considerable proof of it.

lol..... people have beaten a lot of BB/DS3 bosses on their first try, its not impossible. You're vastly overestimating the difficulty of the bosses.

 

[Cyrano]

Oh while I am at it why not throw this too, hahaha: the coop/pvp implementation in DS3 vastly trumps Bloodborne *but* some of the work required to level up the covenants in DS3 are just bloody ridiculous, which leads me to --> Bloodborne's trophy hunting is a much, much more enjoyable affair than DS3, which is just ridiculous.

The farming stuff in all these games is ridiculous. Chalice Dungeons are kinda the height of boredom though.

 

[SarusGray]

The farming stuff in all these games is ridiculous. Chalice Dungeons are kinda the height of boredom though.

I think I'm in the minority when I say I loved the Chalice Dungeons.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Bloodborne was my first souls and I completed it in around 60 hours, including all but the last two Chalice Dungeons.

Just recently played Dark Souls and it utterly kicked my ass. I did eventually finish it but it felt so much harder than Bloodborne. No regain, healing animation is longer, less vials, dodging isn't as good unless it's light roll and you time it perfect, etc.

 

[Laughing Banana]

The farming stuff in all these games is ridiculous. Chalice Dungeons are kinda the height of boredom though.

Well you don't need to farm Chalice Dungeon at least for the Platinum trophy. If you explore properly all the ingredients required to unlock the next stages of Chalice can be gotten in a single playthrough with no farming required.

Un..like..the...god...damn..... proof... of...concords.....and....wolf...grass.... grahh.

I think I'm in the minority when I say I loved the Chalice Dungeons.

I wouldn't say I "loved" it but I don't dislike it. And some of the worst (best) bosses are in there.

Fighting the fully powered BsB on that small circular room... goddamn I was so scared, hahaha.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Well you don't need to farm Chalice Dungeon at least for the Platinum trophy.

Un..like..the...god...damn..... proof... of...concords.....and....wolf...grass.... grahh.

I believe you do. You have to beat Yharnam, and that requires a lot of Chalice Dungeon farming.

It also requires Defiled Watchdog of the Old Lords ;_;

 

[TheFlow]

hardest bosses in the series.


dark souls 3 has the hardest areas

 

[Rozart]

Bloodborne was my first souls and I completed it in around 60 hours, including all but the last two Chalice Dungeons.

Just recently played Dark Souls and it utterly kicked my ass. I did eventually finish it but it felt so much harder than Bloodborne. No regain, healing animation is longer, less vials, dodging isn't as good unless it's light roll and you time it perfect, etc.

The first Dark Souls or DkS3?