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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
indigo-cyclops
Member
The point of lore threads and these discussions is for people to exchange ideas, not be condescending dicks.
Newtype-001
Member
I dont know if this was already answered before but does any one know what the spider where you fight ebrietas is/does.
Since iirc it says "inspect" but nothing happens.
+ reading this read theres some awesome theorys being thrown around.
Since iirc it says "inspect" but nothing happens.
+ reading this read theres some awesome theorys being thrown around.
If Albert kills the quees you can put her flesh on it to revive her.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Roms body is also here, perhaps they are trying to revive rom?
I didnt notice roms body
i just randomly thought she was hovering over the remains of her father since it so blatantly said "daughter" in her name. However, this makes a lot more sense, Erbriatris trying to revive Rom over the Altar of despair? It would explain why you jave to attack her to het attention.
I dont really recall any references to Azathoth being permanently asleep, either in Lovecraft's orginal work or by any other prominent mythos writers. Certainly the very first reference to Azathoth implies some kind of activity. As for being kept placid the only thing that springs to mind is the line in the Haunter of the Dark about him being lulled by hideous piping. Though the Azathoth comparison may have legs in other ways. There have been parallels drawn between the Gnostic Achamoth, the mother of the Demiurge/Yaltabaoth and Azathoth. If we posit that Kos is an Azathoth/Achamoth parallael then Rom would be the Demiurge, hiding the true nature of the world from those without the insight to see. The way insight works would also tie into those ideas.
In terms of Nyarlathothep tie-ins the appearance of the enemies around the grand cathedral, the fact theyre dressed in black and their faces thay look like funeary masks could be a passing reference to Nyarlathothep as the Black Man/Black Pharoh (which I'd suggest he appears as more often than the god of the bloody tongue).
Yeah, I know I've read the "dreaming the universe" thing before, but I don't remember the source. Maybe it was in Chaosium's stuff? Or maybe I read it in an alternate take on the elder god at the back of Trail of Cthulhu. I read way too much of this stuff to remember for sure. It might not have been "canon", but it is something I've heard associated with him before and it has some interesting connected themes to Bloodbourne, so I thought I'd mention it.
And I could see some potential Black Pharoh references (though you'd think there might be more of an Egyptian flair if they were going in hard on that.) Black Pharoh is probably the most common appearance seen of Nyarlathothep, especially in the fiction. There's a reason I mentioned the bloody tongue as his most commonly depicted inhuman form. Bloody tongue is what he looked like when you finally fight him in Persona 2, for example. It seems to be used a lot in pop fiction as a shorthand for his "true" appearance, even though such a thing surely does not exist when it comes to a king of lies like Nyarlathothep.
Newtype-001
Member
Alright. It was nagging at me for ages thx!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
ok, I know this is going into crazy town, but during the early portions of the game in the hunters dream, you see a little bit of the red sky.
So I was just fucking around and I decided to look with the monocular, and I saw little streaks in the sky, like lines.
It reminded me of the iris portion of the eye.
Now I havn't figured out a way to look straight up, but I'm gonna try to get a better angle of the upper portion of the sky and see if I can get a better view, but I kinda think that it's not a storm, but an eye thats decending/looking at us.
So I was just fucking around and I decided to look with the monocular, and I saw little streaks in the sky, like lines.
It reminded me of the iris portion of the eye.
Now I havn't figured out a way to look straight up, but I'm gonna try to get a better angle of the upper portion of the sky and see if I can get a better view, but I kinda think that it's not a storm, but an eye thats decending/looking at us.
I noticed the red streaks as well but i didnt think to zoom in! Nice catch,ive always judt wondered what the pillars are for.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Anyone figured the purpose of that Rom statue in Ebrietas room?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
The more I think about it, I'm honestly leaning to some type of connection to Ash Lake.
I just can't see a reason why the devs would have an area that is literally a carbon copy of one of the most mysterious sections of Dark Souls in this game.
You're right it can be hard to keep where you read something straight considering the mythos has extended itself into so many different media. It's been a while but it might have been from one of the stories is Chaosium's Azathoth collection, Price-Tierney's the Throne of Achamoth perhaps? Actualy PT's take on the Elder Gods might be a good fit for the Bloodborne mythos, PT postulated that the Elder God's basically protected humanity as a "food source" and in BB the Great Ones seem to need humanity to propagate (though whether they have a species wide need/drive to propagate is another question)
Yes totally agree on Nyarlathothep, as you said those brain suckers are very reminiscent of the bloody tongue form when they "unfurl".
Could just be something they think looks cool or a re-occuring thing like the moonlight greatsword
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Moonlight Greatsword is a weapon, same with Patches as just being a little hidden conccurent theme/person/itme
We're talking about a zone exclusive to the Dark Souls universe that has segnificance with that world and that lore.
Little different
I think Miyazaki just thinks it looks cool. In Dark Souls 1&2 those are those great trees that the witches burned. In Bloodborne, idk.
That's another thing I'm curious about. I wonder why the Great Ones need human women to reproduce. I saw this idea floated before, but do we think it's because all Great Ones were once human? That seems to go against the text associated with the trophy you get for the ending where you ascend, which implies that you're kind of elevating humanity by becoming yourself a Great One. That would seem to imply that a human becoming a Great One is novel and abnormal.
But that leaves the question: why would Great Ones need such lesser creatures as humans to propagate? What did they do before humans? Have they just been impregnating lesser creatures since the dawn of time?
We think it actually IS Rom, the Altair of Despair that Ebrietas was right next to raises the dead apparently (bringing the queen ly flesh of the Cainhurst Queen to it revives her ). So I'm assuming Ebrietas was trying to revive Rom so he can veil the great ones like he did before (After killing Roma you can see the Great Ones on the buildings regardless of your insight, when before you needes 40.)
Does anyone else feel that this game fell into same trap as DS2 in mistaking cryptic lore for a confusing plot? People often discuss and debate over the lore of Dark Souls, but the actual plot of the game is simple - you are the chosen undead and seek to rekindle the first flame. At the end of your journey you either decide to fulfill or reject this quest. Along the way you are given goals to achieve as a means of rekindling the first flame (ring the Bells of Awakening, seek Anor Londo, seek the Lord Souls, kill Gwyn).
Bloodborne, on the other hand, is almost never clear about why your character is doing anything. They're a bit better about this in the beginning, as a note in the clinic tells you to seek the Healing Church and Gherman tells you to go to Oedon Chapel and then the Healing Chirch Workshop, but that's about it. After killing Amelia you pretty much never get a narrative reason to do anything, and simply go to new areas because it's a video game and you're supposed to. The role or goal of the protagonist is never clear, and the game doesn't do a good job of explaining what hunters do or what the nightly hunt is. I'll grant that the craziness and absurdity of the game can be attributed to the character going mad, and that humans not being able to comprehend the Great Ones is a theme of the game, but it almost feels like they used it as a cop out to explain nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, but I felt that the plot was lacking. The lore is great, and I'm interested in seeing what gets pieced together, but I feel like the actual story beats of the game were weak or missing altogether. I have no idea why my character was doing anything in the last half of the game.
Bloodborne, on the other hand, is almost never clear about why your character is doing anything. They're a bit better about this in the beginning, as a note in the clinic tells you to seek the Healing Church and Gherman tells you to go to Oedon Chapel and then the Healing Chirch Workshop, but that's about it. After killing Amelia you pretty much never get a narrative reason to do anything, and simply go to new areas because it's a video game and you're supposed to. The role or goal of the protagonist is never clear, and the game doesn't do a good job of explaining what hunters do or what the nightly hunt is. I'll grant that the craziness and absurdity of the game can be attributed to the character going mad, and that humans not being able to comprehend the Great Ones is a theme of the game, but it almost feels like they used it as a cop out to explain nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, but I felt that the plot was lacking. The lore is great, and I'm interested in seeing what gets pieced together, but I feel like the actual story beats of the game were weak or missing altogether. I have no idea why my character was doing anything in the last half of the game.
I thought DS2 was much clearer than DS1 about what you should be doing and why you were doing it.
I think a lot of this is intentional, but...
I also largely agree with you here, while I loved the game and the world presented there were several times playing it where I realised "I have no fucking idea why I'm going here and doing this other than because I can" and that confusion often felt like it was due to the fact the game gave zero narrative direction as opposed to being artfully obtuse. I think the quest narrative could have been even a little stronger without impacting the (often illusionary) freedom to explore where you want.
So there are two Iosefka's. I didn't know for sure but the rumor was the one from the beginning was replaced by an Imposter. Well, it's true.
I'm also guessing this is you (Player Character), reborn as a Great One?
No Souls game's plot has ever been perfectly clear. It sometimes took months for things to be made, and that is the intention. People are still debating fine aspects of the plotlines till this day.
I'm also guessing this is you (Player Character), reborn as a Great One?
No Souls game's plot has ever been perfectly clear. It sometimes took months for things to be made, and that is the intention. People are still debating fine aspects of the plotlines till this day.
Dominic_Shade
Member
That actually explains why one of the blue aliens in her clinic drops a Iosefka's Vial. That alien is even in the same room where Iosefka -- and later, the imposter -- speaks to you through the door.
Not really. Demon's Souls plot is clear and simple: kill all archdemons so you can slay the Old One. Dark Souls is little more obtuse. It was very clear until you ring the second bell. After that, the connecting thread of the narrative is Kingseeker Frampt who told you to seek Lordvessel. The thing is, meeting Kingseeker Frampt is completely optional and you can skip him altogether, severing the narrative on why you go to Anor Londo in the first place.
I agree that Bloodborne narrative thread feels like cut off after Amelia. Defeating her only grants you a vision about Laurence and Willem that give you the password to the Forbidden Wood. But really, there isn't any explicit reason on why you should go there, kill both Shadow of Yharnam and Rom.
I disagree. The lore is still debated, but the actual plots aren't. It's undeniable that in Dark Souls the player is told by Oscar to fulfill the prophecy of the Chosen Undead, then rings the Bells of Awakening, then finds the Lordvessel and the Lord Souls, and then goes to the Kiln and either rekindles the flame or lets it die out. That's the story of the game. Things like the intentions of Gwndolyin or the identity of Gwyn's son aren't the story, that's the lore.
As far as I can tell with Bloodborne, the story is that a hunter is told to seek the Healing Church, does, and then goes to Byrgenwerth for some reason, kills Rom for some reason, goes to the Unseen Village for some reason, and then Conquers the Nightmare for some reason. After this, his duties are apparently done so he can either be killed by Gherman or fight for his life. If he's collected enough of the umbilical cord he'll be reborn as a Great One, even though at no point in the game did anyone ever tell him that his quest has anything to do with Great Ones.
I understand that things are unclear and are meant to be uncovered by the community, but the actual story of the game - the purpose of my quest and the reasons my character is doing anything, aren't clear.
I disagree about Demon. Yea, the main goal is made clear, but there were things going on around it that weren't made clear. That required digging to uncover. Bloodborne is fairly clear. You are a hunter of beast. This night is the night of the hunt. Gehrman kind of pushes you along the way, because he wants you to hunt.
I think you are over simplifying the plot of Dark Souls, and mostly because we are familiar with it now. Bloodborne is what, two weeks old? Did we have everything figured out with the previous games in two weeks? Because I don't recall.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Yeah, but apart from the credits hint, we don't get any explanation on why the imposter is there(unless there is an undiscovered side quest)
So there are two Iosefka's. I didn't know for sure but the rumor was the one from the beginning was replaced by an Imposter. Well, it's true.
I'm also guessing this is you (Player Character), reborn as a Great One?
no need to speculate that. the trophy description says you were reborn as a Great One infant so that's you. i wish we learned more about the Dream and the Doll. i assume people will uncover more stuff later.
the two Iosefkas is pretty interesting. so i guess maybe one of those dudes you kill in the clinic is probably the real doctor.
Darryl M R
Member
piccio_ssl
Member
i'm in ng+ and went there as soon as possible to open the shortcut
inside the clinic, before the stairs at the end of it, iosefka told me to get the fuck out, and when i was near inside the laboratory she told me something like " i always wanted to challenge a hunter " and the fight started
she had equipped a white church set, a whip/cane and a gun, and surprise, she can spell augure of ebriates
she was alone inside the clinic, exept for the blue alien that dropped a iosefka's blood viale
So its exactly the same as fighting her after coming in via the forest then
piccio_ssl
Member
i went through the forest too, not used the wall jump glitch
Yeah I've been watching ENB's playthroughs to get little tidbits like this that elucidate certain details that he would know having made the guide and played the game thoroughly. The first Iosefka constantly gives you blood vials and practically professes love to you, and if you look through the corner of the window you can see that her hand is empty. Later when you go back and she asks for people to "save", she has a knife/weapon of some kind in her hand.
--
As for the Holy Medium on the altar at the Grand Cathedral, it seems we can see Laurence's memory through it, so maybe that is Laurence's blood that you can see on its mouth?
the alien is what i'm thinking is the doctor mutated. i only sent the cannibal to her and when i killed one of those guys, they dropped the Beast rune which i read he held. and the enemies there don't respawn or disappear. their bodies were in the same places i killed them which was interesting and a nice detail.
i'm guessing any progression through that involves finding the shortcut probably moves the sidequest along so maybe only glitching through the doors is what works.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
The only thing that i managed to get about the Doll is that you can give her the Small Hair Ornament that you find in Abandoned Old Workshop and she gives you the Tear Stone. She's also saying something suggesting that she's "happy" that you gave her the item.(she's starting to have feelings?)
yup, i did that. such a tease that she couldn't remember her past.
i wouldn't be surprised if they pulled an Artorias DLC on us and allowed us to travel to the past and see the Doll and Old Workshop in their prime.
The thing is there no matter what, I can confirm this. Because I found the clinic shortcut at my first visit to the forest (third in the thread to find it, damn you tyrant rave!) and that weird thing was there. So it's either the guy who drugged you up, or some random she kidnapped to show how twisted she is. The other question I have is how the hell can she do all this?
yea, who the fuck is the guy in the beginning anyway? we never saw him again.
ah, that answers that.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
So I couldn't find anything on this in the thread with a skim but I noticed something today. After killing Rom and the veil is lifted we see the world for what it is right? But there still appears to be a number of locations where the world appears as it did before, where you killed Rom being one of them, and the pocket dimension (or whatever that was) where you killed him remains open. Anyone think this has any significance? It could just be a lack of time to do it but it almost seems as if Rom was casting a veil over parts of Yarnham, leaving me wondering if something else continues to cast a veil over Rom's location.
Darryl M R
Member
Please someone try to find a way to save Iosefka .
Also has anyone tried wearing the cage helmet from the boss and seeing if those mind sucker mobs can still take your insight when they grab you?
.Also has anyone tried wearing the cage helmet from the boss and seeing if those mind sucker mobs can still take your insight when they grab you?
what about the alien on the operating table that has a half human arm ?
Please someone try to find a way to save Iosefka
Also has anyone tried wearing the cage helmet from the boss and seeing if those mind sucker mobs can still take your insight when they grab you?
i wanna save that lil girl. but alas, she's pig food.
Aztechnology
Member
Im really late to the lore thread, so forgive me if im restating what someone else has said. So some people are saying they think Yarnham and certain parts of the game are reality. But I don't think so. The times where we enter a nightmare generally occur after we are grabbed by Amygdala's which are representative of fear (named after the part of the brain that handles those responses.)
I have so many theories about how the story could potentially work out. But I do believe the entirety of the game is the dream of an Elder one. An Elder baby in formation to be precise.
I have so many theories about how the story could potentially work out. But I do believe the entirety of the game is the dream of an Elder one. An Elder baby in formation to be precise.
hurricanes
Member
I didn't know that. =-=
wait, what happened to her in your game? i didn't give her the brooch and sent her tot he chapel so the pig under the bridge ate her.