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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
I think the Nightmare of Mensis is the specific nightmare of Micolash, while the Nightmare Frontier is the more general Nightmare area dreamed up by other people. The Lecture Hall was "set adrift in the Nightmare" long before the Mensis Ritual was ever completed. Perhaps all nightmares contribute to the same patchwork Nightmare world.
Also, killing Micolash doesn't end the Nightmare of Mensis, so it seems that the dreamer is only important for the initial creation of the area, and that after it's made it's self-sustaining.
Alebrije
Member
I was trying to do the opposite : see Frontier from Mensis but did not find it.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
In EpicNameBro's latest vid, he alludes to the Nightmare Frontier being potentitally part of Loran...
Makes sense as thats where you get the Loran chalice from.
yup, but he also wanted that to be up for interpretation for whatever reason. but that also semi-confirms it.
test_account
XP-39C²
Willem, but yeah.
I think Micolash's dream has been subverted by Mergo (the crying baby) just as Gerhman's dream has been subverted by Moon Presence. Both dreams continue after the death of the dreamer.
I think it's easy to assume that Nightmares/Dreams can be created via many means, and that once created, they simply exist and do not require the "dreamer" to continue.
For instance, The Nightmare of Mensis is the nightmare of Mensis, not the Nightmare of Micolash. There are several people wearing the same head cage as Micolash, so it's easy to assume that the nightmare was created by many people. Also, even if it is specifically Micolash's Nightmare, he's already dead in the real world, and the dream continues after he dies in the nightmare world, so it doesn't seem to matter who the originator of the nightmare is, or what state they're in.
Also, an encounter with the pale moon is what made the hunter's dream in the first place, and that dream has been shared by the moon presence, gerhman, and other hunters from the very beginning, and I doubt that it matters that any of these characters sustain the dream. No matter what ending, the dream continues.
And the nightmare frontier, though you can see mergo's loft from it apparently, seems to exist as it's own place.
It makes sense to me that, Nightmares and dreams are simply alternate places in space time that can be created via various means, and once created, they exist independent of their creators. It also seems that Nightmares and Dreams can be connected, despite existing as their own entity. Seeing as how Messengers can move between nightmare and dream with ease, and certain places in the dream are connected to nightmares like the stump and the baths.
Those columns evoke "ash lake" from the Dark Souls games. Obviously, it's not the same world but maybe it hints at something thematically similar, like the underpinnings, or foundation of the real world.
not gonna lie, pretty disappointed with some of the regular enemy names. they're pretty generic. all the guys in town etc are just called Huntsman (weapon). but some enemies have rather unique names and i also liked that all the NPC Hunter enemies are also named. it confirms that guy in Nightmare of Mensis isn't Ludwig even tho he was using the Holy Sword. his name is Choir Intelligencer Edgar. eh
ah well, kinda excited ENB will finally do a lore video now that the guide is out. he was pretty much holding back info in his LP. can't fool me!
ah well, kinda excited ENB will finally do a lore video now that the guide is out. he was pretty much holding back info in his LP. can't fool me!
bodyofanamerican
Member
Just found this on Reddit, and man this is pretty fucking cool.
Mermandala
Member
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst.
It's possible that "Host of the Nightmare" is not meant to be taken as it being his Nightmare, but instead that he is the host of it, similar to how one would host a party. Their bodies have rotted away in the real world, but the Nightmare is forever. Even after killing the Moon Presence, the Hunter's Dream is still there.
The Hunter's Dream itself is built on top of one of those columns.
I have a pet theory that there are other workshops on top of all the other columns. One workshop for each hunter, all exact duplicates, each with its own doll and Gehrman.
Pretty good seeing as he was sporting Cainhurst helm woth Crowdeather armor. Also backups Eileen story about hunting a fallen "crow".
That's what I think. Someone/something has to create the dream/nightmare, but once it's created it doesn't need them to continue existing.
so good. i love this stuff.
Mermandala
Member
I can't help but think about host as in hosting a parasite. The Nightmare as a possible parasitic entity. Parasites have some pretty wacked reproductive cycles - like the Great Ones - they certainly need a surrogate.
EatinOlives
Member
Which I guess also explains why Ebrietas' head is the weakpoint, which I found to be kind of a bizarre weakpoint up until now.
I think the obsession with "eyes" by the humans that have an obsession throughout the game is most likely an incredibly literal interpretation based on what they found with Ebrietas. "She can see more shit than we do, and she has lots of eyes, so we need eyes on everything!!!" I mean they're all insane at this point so I wouldn't put it past them to make that blunt a connection.
The one thing that would need explanation is, why would Ebrietas let them slice her head open? She's non-aggro when you first see her, and then she's permanently aggressive after you start the fight, implying that she hadn't been attacked before.
oh man I hope this is true
OniBarubary
Banned
I don't buy it. I don't see Ebrietas letting people slice her head open, I think that's just how she naturally looks. They still might of gotton the idea of the eyes thing from it though.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So is arianna an important person? She gives birth to a demon thing, but she also wears clothes from cainhurst. Why would she have to be a prostitute if she's such a good vessel for the vileblood's goals? Was she exiled because she was chosen over the queen? The queen is pretty obsessed with her nobility from the way she forces you to kneel, so maybe that noble blood not being good enough was incomprehensible.
It's notable that you never get to see the queen's face. Maybe they're related? I wonder if something happens if you give her like a hundred blood thingys. This would also explain why the nun lady hates arianna so much, I know the church and the vilebloods hate each other from talking to alfred.
Also, the final boss has the ability to stop you from using your blood potions. I thought that was an interesting touch for an enemy that ostensibly controls the nightmare. If the blood signifies a pact between humanity and the great ones, it makes sense that the moon presence should be able to cancel that effect.
Also, I played through the game without spoilers, and it kind of seemed to me like you were being revealed as one of those pearl slug things rather than gaining a transformation. Like maybe the game was the slug's dream and the guy in the beginning was helping you adjust to your host instead of healing a random dude.
I dunno. Still have to process everything and so far I pretty much only know the parts of the game I experienced myself since I beat it just now.
It's notable that you never get to see the queen's face. Maybe they're related? I wonder if something happens if you give her like a hundred blood thingys. This would also explain why the nun lady hates arianna so much, I know the church and the vilebloods hate each other from talking to alfred.
Also, the final boss has the ability to stop you from using your blood potions. I thought that was an interesting touch for an enemy that ostensibly controls the nightmare. If the blood signifies a pact between humanity and the great ones, it makes sense that the moon presence should be able to cancel that effect.
Also, I played through the game without spoilers, and it kind of seemed to me like you were being revealed as one of those pearl slug things rather than gaining a transformation. Like maybe the game was the slug's dream and the guy in the beginning was helping you adjust to your host instead of healing a random dude.
I dunno. Still have to process everything and so far I pretty much only know the parts of the game I experienced myself since I beat it just now.
Thanks for posting this. Everyone who considers themselves part of the Souls/Bloodborne community should read it.
The reaction to the guide not having crazy super secrets (hidden Beast Mode!?!) is dumb as hell. A million people played this game; there isn't much that could have gone unfound (besides very evidence-reliant number things which require a lot of time and dedicated community involvement, which the guide covers in extensive detail). Heck, people found that doing a certain gesture at a certain location for 30 seconds gets you a reward within days of release. How many people found that on their own? One in a thousand? Probably fewer.
You can't hide anything massive with a big-name game like this. That doesn't stop the guide from being a fantastic resource and giving us huge amounts of information that we wouldn't otherwise have had. Can't wait to pick mine up.
Sorry for off-topic.
That part is so random dude just make up. Ebrietas is probably just like that.
I don't think it is that off-topic, as secrets are part of what feeds into lore. If there's help to be found for uncovering the story secrets, they aren't just going to come from the guide.
The guide also lacks explanation of the weight mechanics and stamina penalties, including the Hand Lantern.
EatinOlives
Member
I know, I'm just running through thinking along those same lines. I do like that theory so I wanted to see if there was anything in-game that could suggest why she was passive if the Choir had harmed her before.
Other Souls games had something similar with the stamina regen slowing down. In Demon's Souls there were two armor sets (The executioner set for females and the old king set for males) that had no stamina regain penalties despite being heavier than other armor sets.
Wow, this makes me legit angry. ENB did great work and always has. Fuck the moochers.
theSlacker
Member
Something else about Ebrietas that may or may not matter. Her "appendages" seem more like arteries or things that are suppose to be connected to something. As if she was the organ of a larger thing. Like look at her "wings" or arms or even her "feet" area.
Other then her "chest" area resembles the chests and midsections of the blue celestial beings/celestial emissary.
You are partially summoning her with the Auger of Ebrietas, but then the portal closes so the appendages get cut off and fall to the floor.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Off-topic but what the heck do you mean by SEO War against Wikidot?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Is there any lore information about Nightmare Frontier being in a ship graveyard?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I mean that if you google stuff, fextra pages will show up instead of wikidot's. SEO = Search Engine Optimization
"God's Beard!"
Member
My favorite reference to Berserk is birth being related to other dimensions.
Eating behelit eggs/umbilical cords to gain protection from/the ability to interact with the great ones in either series.
Eating behelit eggs/umbilical cords to gain protection from/the ability to interact with the great ones in either series.