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[UpperCaseN]

Not as good, but then again I am biased being an Arkham Horror fan and Touch of Evil is basically Arkham Horror Super Lite so you may like it more than I. Maybe invest in some of the LNOE expansions? There are a ton and I'm sure you'd like them if you are such a big LNOE fan. Even I like them and I like but don't love LNOE.

Yeah, I saw those, but I'm hoping to expand on my game collection and experiences. LNOE is the first, what I call, 'Advanced' board game I own. I've played Talisman and some other dungeon crawler with friends, but the only other board games I personally own are like Scrabble and shit. I think it'd be a better investment for me to find other games rather than expansions right now, but I love LNOE so much that A Touch of Evil seems like an insta-buy for me

 

[Neverfade]

I'll second Astro to be wary of Touch of Evil. The mechanics are either a) perhaps not the most thought out/too simplistic or b) just a straight rehash of what you're going to get in LNOE.

At the very least, I wouldn't purchase it NOW. I'd expand my collection to something different so you have more boardgaming itches you can scratch.

 

[AstroLad]

Oh I hear you. I'd still say beware Touch of Evil. There are so many great games out there for someone in your position, and I'd consider Touch of Evil a notch or two below the best. At least skim some reviews on BGG first to see if it's really worth it to you. But hey if it serves as your gateway to Arkham then great.

 

[UpperCaseN]

Yeah, I don't plan on getting anything too soon, I just picked up LNOE on Sat so I don't intend to shorten it's lifespan. If the games really are similar then I agree with you both, I should get something else for more variety. I'll do my research, since I already played and liked Talisman that will probably end up being my next

 

[Neverfade]

Yeah, I don't plan on getting anything too soon, I just picked up LNOE on Sat so I don't intend to shorten it's lifespan. If the games really are similar then I agree with you both, I should get something else for more variety. I'll do my research, since I already played and liked Talisman that will probably end up being my next

Research Runebound and Prophecy. I haven't played either, but they're apparently similar to Talisman, and you may find you like some of their mechanics better!

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

Yeah, I don't plan on getting anything too soon, I just picked up LNOE on Sat so I don't intend to shorten it's lifespan. If the games really are similar then I agree with you both, I should get something else for more variety. I'll do my research, since I already played and liked Talisman that will probably end up being my next

Sure, say that now, but come a week or two's time and you'll be adding games to thoughthammer orders just to get the free shipping. Don't worry it's happened to all of us.

Played two more games of Agricola last night, I think we are officially hooked. I also had my Twilight Struggle rematch on Sunday. I still got whooped but at least I put up more of a fight this time than in my first game. She won on the last round of turn 10 because I had to play an Asia scoring card and she had dominance. I really need to figure out a good strategy for the game. I'm still trying to the hang of the mechanics so once I get those down I can focus on getting used to situational play of the cards.

 

[platypotamus]

I'm still trying to the hang of the mechanics so once I get those down I can focus on getting used to situational play of the cards.

My biggest strategy lightbulb was to never (mostly) use my own events. Only use my cards for the ops. That way wife gets stuck with those cards later, and gives me the event

EDIT: I should note that I'm 0-3 at TS, so my strategy tips should be taken with an ocean of salt.

 

[AstroLad]

Best strategy is be USSR and CRUSH early.

5-0, all via KO. Yes, mostly against first-time players who barely knew what they were doing (another good strategy).

 

[ToddG15]

Yeah, I don't plan on getting anything too soon, I just picked up LNOE on Sat so I don't intend to shorten it's lifespan. If the games really are similar then I agree with you both, I should get something else for more variety. I'll do my research, since I already played and liked Talisman that will probably end up being my next

I picked up LNOE as my first board game last summer. You may want to check out Ghost Stories. My gf and friends really enjoy playing it. I haven't seen it get much mention here but I demoed it last summer at Gen Con and had a blast.

And I know you said you wanted to pick up some other games before the LNOE expansions, but definitely keep them in mind for the future, as the expansions are also really great.

 

[BigAT]

Has anyone tried out Carcassonne for Xbox Live? I have been meaning to get into boardgames more for a while now, but considering I can barely get my friends into a game of Monopoly or Scrabble, I highly doubt I could get them to sit down for a session of something more advanced. I was thinking of picking up the digital version of Carcassonne and seeing how it is.

 

[Chairhome]

^^ It should be a good indicator of how the game would be if you bought the boardgame version of it. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm thinking of trying it out that way first, at least a demo (if one is available). I got my friends hooked on Catan this weekend and they bought the XBLA version of Catan to scratch the itch when we're not playing.

 

[Cyan]

Yes, mostly against first-time players who barely knew what they were doing (another good strategy).

This is one of my favorite strategies.

Best part is, it's universal!

 

[StoOgE]

Has anyone tried out Carcassonne for Xbox Live? I have been meaning to get into boardgames more for a while now, but considering I can barely get my friends into a game of Monopoly or Scrabble, I highly doubt I could get them to sit down for a session of something more advanced. I was thinking of picking up the digital version of Carcassonne and seeing how it is.

The XBLA version of Catan is excellent.

Carcasonne is ok on Xbox, but it is missing some expansions most people think are critical to play the game. Carca is also better with more players and the demo is limited to 2 players.

Ticket to Ride on XBLA is HORRID and should not be played.

Give the demo's of Catan and Carcassonne a try or purchase the full game. TTR demo is good to give you an idea of how to play, but it is pretty poorly done and for some reason just wasn't much fun on the Xbox.

I think you should also know that the mechanics for many of the Euro gateway games are much simpler than the mechanics of Monopoly or Risk. I also think you will have more success with these games as they are more fun that Monopoly and a ton of great games are available with play times that are much shorter than a game of Monopoly...

Monopoly averages about 3 hours of playtime. In that same amount of time I can play 1 game of Puerto Rico, 2 games of Dominion and a round of Ticket to Ride... a lot more variety, a lot more fun.

 

[AstroLad]

Monopoly averages about 3 hours of playtime. In that same amount of time I can play 1 game of Puerto Rico, 2 games of Dominion and a round of Ticket to Ride... a lot more variety, a lot more fun.

Yes, the greatest ironing here is that mainstream games are often much longer and more needlessly complex than their eurogame counterparts. Which is why something as innocuous as Ticket to Ride is such a revelation for casual players. (Usual response: "I didn't know board games could be this fun! Where can I find games like this?)

Games of Monopoly, Trivial Pursuit, and Risk can be absolutely excrutiating even though they're pitched and sold to mainstream audiences.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Has anyone tried out Carcassonne for Xbox Live? I have been meaning to get into boardgames more for a while now, but considering I can barely get my friends into a game of Monopoly or Scrabble, I highly doubt I could get them to sit down for a session of something more advanced. I was thinking of picking up the digital version of Carcassonne and seeing how it is.

Do they not like Monopoly because it's long and boring, or are they just turned off completely by the concept of board games? If it's the latter, then it's going to be tough. I can kind of relate, as most people I know are down with a game of something like Cranium or Apples to Apples (as examples), but quickly lose interest when you try to break out something that isn't as accessible as the "trivia/charades/wordplay" party games.

If it's just the "Monopoly is long and boring" aversion to board games, then fear not. There are far better games out there that might click with your friends. Just make sure that you understand the rules in a fashion that you can explain them easily, and then, next time you and your friends are just sitting around on a lazy night, try to politely insist that they at least give it a chance.

 

[StoOgE]

Yes, the greatest ironing here is that mainstream games are often much longer and more needlessly complex than their eurogame counterparts. Which is why something as innocuous as Ticket to Ride is such a revelation for casual players. (Usual response: "I didn't know board games could be this fun! Where can I find games like this?)

Games of Monopoly, Trivial Pursuit, and Risk can be absolutely excrutiating even though they're pitched and sold to mainstream audiences.

Absolutely agree. I think that is why a lot of people just give up on board games... because all of the major board games are long, arduous and often drag on for a very long time after it is clear who has won. How many games of Risk or Monopoly get ended early because other players just conceed to the dominant player?

Everyone that I have introduced to Ticket to Ride, Dominion or Catan has loved it... they are more challenging games that rely less on luck, have more streamlined rules and shorter play times... and most critically most of them are balanced well enough that you are never completely out of the game.. lots of games come right down to the wire vs Monopoly where one player beats the others into submission over a 3 hour slog.

Hell, I only started really getting into these games a few months ago and now I own 15 "euro" games. Several of my friends have purchased Catan and Ticket to Ride after playing it at my place.

I would even argue that the "complex" Euros that I own (Puerto Rico, Power Grid, RFTG) aren't any harder than risk but the games are much more fun and competitive (and shorter!)

 

[BigAT]

I was just using Monopoly as an example of a mainstream game. I definitely appreciate that there is a huge, off-putting time investment for the game that will turn people away from it, but that's part of the reason I enjoy it so much.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I was just using Monopoly as an example of a mainstream game. I definitely appreciate that there is a huge, off-putting time investment for the game that will turn people away from it, but that's part of the reason I enjoy it so much.

Well, the problem with Monopoly for a lot of people (board game nerds and casuals alike) is that, it's not simply time-consuming, it's often boring as all hell if you don't land on the right properties, and you can't make any attractive deals with fellow players in the form of property exchanges. Risk suffers from the same thing (though the playstyles of the games are very different). They suck because the luck of the draw in the early going can position you so that you never had a chance, and the endgames can often play out at a snails pace. So, you've got a five player game where only two people have a chance at victory, and the three other people are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs as the two remaining players clash for supremacy over the span of hours.

 

[platypotamus]

If monopoly didn't have a runaway positive feedback loop, it would be about 80% less terrible.

 

[GDJustin]

Got my Dominion Envoy and Black Market promo cards in the mail, today:

Positive:
- Black Market is a really great card. It's got the obvious benefit of potentially bringing powerful, one-of-a-kind cards into the game (imagine being the only player with a chapel), but there's hidden benefits to it:

1) It's basically a +1 Buy without saying "+1 Buy." So compare it to, say, Woodcutter.
2) It's 3-cost, and gives +2 coins. This allows it to compare very favorably to Silver. If you don't want to use the Black Market deck, you don't have you. Spend the +2 coins on something else.

Negative:

- The cards are supposedly "free" - just pay $5 shipping. But the cards were shipped in a standard envelope. The cost, 81 cents, is printed right on it. I grok that it takes a lot of time to print out thousands of envelopes, address labels, stuff them all, mail them, etc. But these are supposed to be PROMOTIONAL. $2 would have covered costs. At $5 a pop they're gonna make a ton of money. Thousands of dollars.

- Envoy seems useless. Yes it's a cheap card draw, but every time you use it your best shit will just be discarded over and over. This is the opposite of what you want to happen. I'd pay coins to NOT use Envoy, I think. Too afraid I'd draw my moat, opponent would make me discard it, then attack the shit out of me next turn (or some other equally shitty scenario like having me discard my only early-game gold).

 

[Cyan]

Still more RftG expansion info:

Designer preview, with some new cards shown and a bit of explanation of Prestige.

And the four new start worlds (scroll down a little to see 'em). The Scavenger world has a cool power, but not too keen on the others. Maybe just because I still don't totally understand Prestige.

 

[StoOgE]

- The cards are supposedly "free" - just pay $5 shipping. But the cards were shipped in a standard envelope. The cost, 81 cents, is printed right on it. I grok that it takes a lot of time to print out thousands of envelopes, address labels, stuff them all, mail them, etc. But these are supposed to be PROMOTIONAL. $2 would have covered costs. At $5 a pop they're gonna make a ton of money. Thousands of dollars.

- Envoy seems useless. Yes it's a cheap card draw, but every time you use it your best shit will just be discarded over and over. This is the opposite of what you want to happen. I'd pay coins to NOT use Envoy, I think. Too afraid I'd draw my moat, opponent would make me discard it, then attack the shit out of me next turn (or some other equally shitty scenario like having me discard my only early-game gold).

I think Envoy could be useful in a game with limited draw cards. Obviously if you have other draw cards in the kingdom deck you will avoid at all costs.. but it could have it's place. There are a lot of cards in the game that you don't use if a better card is out there that does the same thing. It has an interesting cost/benefit to it, but I think the card would be more valuable were it a cheaper card (2 G) that you might want to pick up early in the game where the cost/benefit might make it more enticing in any situation.

Agreed on the shipping. I paid 8 dollars to ship the Small World and Dominion promo cards/expansion for items that were 'free'. They mailed them using a 4 dollar shipping method. What kind of ticks me off more is I wanted to order a set for my friend and father who both bought Dominion (I have become a pusher of Euro Games) on the same order to save shipping costs but I was limited to 1 per order. I get that they don't want people to snatch them all up but 2-3 per order seems reasonable.

 

[AstroLad]

You know BGG likes to and knows how to make dat kash.

 

[StoOgE]

Still more RftG expansion info:

Designer preview, with some new cards shown and a bit of explanation of Prestige.

And the four new start worlds (scroll down a little to see 'em). The Scavenger world has a cool power, but not too keen on the others. Maybe just because I still don't totally understand Prestige.

Whole things sounds way too much. Searching through the deck for a card you want? Single use Super power card?

I don't know. The idea sounds interesting, but it sounds like they know the deck is getting too big and they are coming up with really cheap ways to cycle through the draw pile quickly.

I only own two "card" games.. and Dominion's setup seems to lend itself better to adding more cards.. because the cards just add variety and changes to the gameplay.. the limited playing deck means they can just keep adding cards as long as people keep buying them.

RFTG relies on drawing random cards.. the more you dilute the deck the more luck of the draw becomes a limiting factor.. seems the designers realizes this and has come up with really gamey elements that are going to really slow the game down.

 

[AstroLad]

RFTG+Gathering Storm is all you need. I'm going to pare down my deck tonight. Might pass on this last expansion unless it gets amazing reviews/impressions. And I'm a huge RFTG fan. Dominion though, please keep milking that.

 

[Neverfade]

Well I'm on the opposite side of that fence. FINALLY, some fucking interesting cards.

 

[platypotamus]

I think the new expansion looks interesting. I wonder if I can safely skip the 2nd one and go straight to this from the first.

 

[StoOgE]

I think the new expansion looks interesting. I wonder if I can safely skip the 2nd one and go straight to this from the first.

The preview says you need both expansion + the base game for this one.

How much the balance relies on the second expansion is the question I guess.

 

[platypotamus]

The preview says you need both expansion + the base game for this one.

How much the balance relies on the second expansion is the question I guess.

Well, one of the cards I saw made a pretty big mention of Rebel and Imperium worlds, which I'm guessing are pretty impacted by the Rebel vs Imperium expansion. Damn it.

Oh well, if this gets favorable enough impressions I'll buy these as gifts for my in-laws (they're the owners of RftG in my group).

 

[AstroLad]

Always crazy to see how early BGG.con tickets go on sale and how fast the hotels fill up. Kind of glad to be going to PAX East as I think it'll be much more low-key from a BG perspective -- except for Warhammer and stuff, which neither the wife nor I are into -- but still allow us to partake in BG deliciousness.

 

[Slacker]

Took advice from 15 pages ago and picked up Axis & Allies: Pacific 1940, and am anxiously awaiting my first game against other humans this Friday night (played it against myself twice so far). Awesome game, although I share in the disappointment mentioned a few pages back about the less-than-perfect production values. Numerous errors in the instructions, wrong battleboard, not enough Japanese tactical bombers, not enough gray chips, etc. I ended up pillaging the money from my original A&A Revised, the chips from AA1942, and the red bombers from the original AA Pacific to make a much more complete package (FYI you can apparently contact WOTC for more bombers and they'll send them to you). I really hope they listen to the complaints with this version of the game and step it up bigtime for Europe 1940 due in June. I'm excited to combine the two games for one Big Honkin World War That Will Surely Take All Damn Night, and I don't want the experience to be marred by lousy production.

Speaking of mitigating production issues, I ended up printing off three images from the internets that add a lot to the game. First, a better national production chart that includes the various national advantages on the bottom:

Legal size: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/658165/axis-allies-pacific-1940-edition
Letter size: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/658164/axis-allies-pacific-1940-edition

The same guy also created an old school put-the-units-on-there battleboard complete with attack bonuses for pairing:

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/658153/axis-allies-pacific-1940-edition

And finally a good way to keep track of how many spaces air units have left to move after a battle:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=17711.0

Production issues aside, I love the game. The tenuous peace at the beginning of the game adds an interesting element, especially for the Japanese player. Can't wait to play it with other people to see how it all goes down.

 

[jason10mm]

Where is the "Touch of Evil" love? I like it. Nowhere NEAR as fiddly as Arkham Horror, but just as atmospheric. Well, ok, not nearly as good a story telling game, but has Flying Frogs usual good production values and nice genre touches. If you like that Tim Burton "Sleepy Hollow" game, you will LOVE ToE!

Both AH and ToE are overly complex for what they are trying to do, IMHO (tell a story about combating evil), but both are fun co-op games though you can play ToE as a race game), though the final battle in ToE is a bit lacking compared to AH, probably because you spent 3 less hours getting there

I love me some LNoE. Hard to find a tactical miniatures game as thematic, variable, and simple. Gets pricey with all those expansions

If you are looking for some other "gateway" games, Small World is pretty good. Not a lot of charts, heavy dice rolling, or other things to get in the way.

I enjoy Runebound as well, though you need to do some tweaking to get it to flow well. The movement dice mechanic REALLY bogs down the game and it is difficult to catch up to a runaway leader. Solo play is very easy if you instate a nice countdown timer.

What specifically is wrong with 1940acific? I have it, unopened, but would like to ask for bombers if necessary.

 

[platypotamus]

Took advice from 15 pages ago

Something about this phrase had me giggling.

I'm heading out on a trip for the next week and a half, and while the beginning of it will be painfully boardgame free, I'm optimistic about the second half. Thar be Dominion players and Power Grid players at the second stop of my trip...

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Took advice from 15 pages ago and picked up Axis & Allies: Pacific 1940, and am anxiously awaiting my first game against other humans this Friday night (played it against myself twice so far). Awesome game, although I share in the disappointment mentioned a few pages back about the less-than-perfect production values. Numerous errors in the instructions, wrong battleboard, not enough Japanese tactical bombers, not enough gray chips, etc. I ended up pillaging the money from my original A&A Revised, the chips from AA1942, and the red bombers from the original AA Pacific to make a much more complete package (FYI you can apparently contact WOTC for more bombers and they'll send them to you). I really hope they listen to the complaints with this version of the game and step it up bigtime for Europe 1940 due in June. I'm excited to combine the two games for one Big Honkin World War That Will Surely Take All Damn Night, and I don't want the experience to be marred by lousy production.

Yeah, I couldn't believe how many errors there were with this game. The fact they even misprinted the initial unit layout is just amazing to me. I don't understand how they couldn't catch this either before or during production. The fact they included the battleboard just made it worse, although I think the errata stated WotC would replace that as well (still need to check on that). Of course that is ignoring the fact that it is a really cheap version of the battleboard compared to Anniversary edition. Despite that I will probably end up ordering Europe 1940 as well, since like you I am excited to have some ridiculously large mega-game.

What specifically is wrong with 1940acific? I have it, unopened, but would like to ask for bombers if necessary.

This post I made from a while back summarizes my thoughts on my first play through. Haven't had a chance to play since then.

 

[StoOgE]

Got in a couple more plays of RFTG tonight..

Such a great game.. it feels like the military option is a little underpowered at least on the base game compared to settling non-military worlds or produce-consume.. but I've got a whopping 5 plays in it, so I'm probably just missing something. It seems like everyone's initial strategy was to go military since it doesn't "cost" anything to conquer worlds once you have the military power built up. But the military planets don't seem to have as much oomph as the non-military worlds.. I'm sure that was a design choice since the military planets don't cost as much to conquer.

However, I like how adaptable the game is.

Dominion requires you to come up with a strategy early on in the game and try and stick to it the best you can.. this game throws you curve balls where you might start out on a settle non-military worlds strategy and get a card that encourages you to move to a produce-consume strategy.

My next order is going to include the first expansion for sure as I like the idea of the goal cards providing side-goals in addition to your main tableau.

 

[Ferrio]

Played our first big seaside games tonight.

First one was really slow as their were no +action cards except for 1 spy, required quite a bit of thinking to put down the best action. Game lasted awhile. Bright side it was a low scoring and close game (17,18,19,19)

Second game was nuts.

-Caravan
-Fishing Village
-Lighthouse
-Market
-Council room

There were turns where you could go through your whole deck, game ended very quickly.

 

[Cyan]

Got in a couple more plays of RFTG tonight..

Such a great game.. it feels like the military option is a little underpowered at least on the base game compared to settling non-military worlds or produce-consume.. but I've got a whopping 5 plays in it, so I'm probably just missing something. It seems like everyone's initial strategy was to go military since it doesn't "cost" anything to conquer worlds once you have the military power built up. But the military planets don't seem to have as much oomph as the non-military worlds.. I'm sure that was a design choice since the military planets don't cost as much to conquer.

Naw, you're ahead of the curve. Most people go crazy over military when they start out in the game, ignoring produce-consume. To help combat this tendency, military is actually slightly underpowered vs produce-consume. It's still often a viable strategy, but it definitely is a little underpowered.

The first expansion fixes this, balancing the strategies nicely. At first, military will seem overpowered in the expansion, but with a bit more play, things become more balanced.

My next order is going to include the first expansion for sure as I like the idea of the goal cards providing side-goals in addition to your main tableau.

Right on. I'm not a huge fan of the goal cards, but the additional cards and start worlds really make the game better. This isn't as true in the second expansion; I wouldn't bother with it unless you really want some new cards.

 

[platypotamus]

I love the goals. I think they work really well at giving the game just a hint of direction, which I think it needs because of how completely wide open it is. There're times when you'll have a settlement phase, and 3 planets that are not particularly distinct in their powers, but one of them is suitable for a goal... Or even better, a planet that's clearly a better planet (say a windfall, and you've got trade coming up), but another weaker planet will earn you a goal this turn... which is more worth it. It's another good decision layer on the game.

There were turns where you could go through your whole deck, game ended very quickly.

Going through my whole deck in one turn is something I actively seek doing whenever the cards let me build a deck that way. Screw depending on draws to get the card I need this turn, I'll just use them all!

 

[GDJustin]

Going through my whole deck in one turn is something I actively seek doing whenever the cards let me build a deck that way. Screw depending on draws to get the card I need this turn, I'll just use them all!

My recent Dominion strategy has been the opposite. I stack up on trashers like Chapel and Remodel and try to get the coppers and estates out of my deck ASAP. My opening two buys are Chapel / Silver, if there's a chapel on the board. Then I use the chapel to trash as many coppers in my hand as I can while keeping enough to buy another silver.

Side note: Had a memorable game the other day where a witch was in play, but no chapel. Wife got a couple Witches before me and was kicking my ass. But that's when I realized that I could use Remodel to turn Curses into Moats

 

[Ferrio]

Also Smuggler is an evil evil card.

I didn't see the power of it when the game began, but everyone except me picked up one. Next thing I know It's my turn and I scrap enough to buy a 5 cost card, then everyone around the table got it for free playing a smuggler. "Son of a bitch!". People pretty much gained from me the entire game.

Lately my strategy has been revolving around getting the better treasure cards early in the game. It's been working for the most part. The first time I played seaside it was just me and another person. I bought up all the treasure maps, I was rich pretty quickly.

 

[Evlar]

My recent Dominion strategy has been the opposite. I stack up on trashers like Chapel and Remodel and try to get the coppers and estates out of my deck ASAP. My opening two buys are Chapel / Silver, if there's a chapel on the board. Then I use the chapel to trash as many coppers in my hand as I can while keeping enough to buy another silver.

Side note: Had a memorable game the other day where a witch was in play, but no chapel. Wife got a couple Witches before me and was kicking my ass. But that's when I realized that I could use Remodel to turn Curses into Moats

Remodel is a fantastic card due to its flexibility. It can remain useful through every stage of the game.

 

[StoOgE]

I have one of two strategies in Dominion.

If there is a good draw card on the table I will nab those and some good + action cards quickly and try and built a very large deck assuming that I will be able to get most of my deck in my hands at any give time.

If there aren't good draw cards on the table and there are remodel cards I try like hell to clean my deck out of crap as quickly as I can. I also use money lender for the same purpse. Copper gone, silver in.

I guess it's hard to have a strategy other than "be flexible".. but I prefer to build small kick ass hands. I've won games with 20 cards in my hand at the end of it.

Also, if the Gardens is available with good draw cards I load up on as much crap as I possibly can. I ended one game with 7 gardens in my hand worth 6 points each. Pretty much an insta win. Everyone was looking at me like "why are you buying coppers so late in the game". By the time they figured out what I was doing it was too late, all the gardens were gone. :lol

 

[Ferrio]

Ya the person yesterday that won only had 5 action cards heh.

 

[GDJustin]

I was reading about the "three levels" of Dominion play, the other day. It might take some players longer than others, but eventually as players get better at the game they progress through these three stages of skill. Basically:

Level 1:
Buy up cool action cards. Harass people with militia & thief, buy a lot of draw cards, etc.

Level 2:
Realize that buying a silver is ALMOST ALWAYS preferable to buying a 3-cost action card. Even when you have 4 coins or even 5 coins, often.

The following strategy will beat most other Dominion strategies: if 8+ coins = buy provence. if 6+ coins buy gold. If 3+ coins buy silver. Boring, but true.

Level 3:
Take Level 2 knowledge into account, but take specific Action cards to augment your deck. For example, an early Moneylender purchase is smarter than an early Silver purchase. Or take a festival at 5 coins instead of another silver.

Also understand other game nuances. Example: If you won't be cycling through your deck again (ie you have just a couple turns left), buying anything but VP is very stupid - you won't get a chance to use it. Stock up on Duchy's and Estates.

~~~

So hardcore Dominion players have ran the numbers, and know on average how many turns it will take to end the game buying nothing but coins. Any new strategy or card combos is weighed against whether it acts more or less quickly than that baseline "big money" strat.

Obviously player interaction and attacks complicate things, but it's still a good baseline.

Bottom line: A good Dominion deck won't contain bloat. Less actions are more.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Bottom line: A good Dominion deck won't contain bloat.

Unless it's focused on a Garden strategy anyway.

 

[GDJustin]

Unless it's focused on a Garden strategy anyway.

Well, right. With gardens the game becomes "everything you know about Dominion is wrong" ha. Buy Coppers. dozens and dozens of them.

 

[platypotamus]

My recent Dominion strategy has been the opposite. I stack up on trashers like Chapel and Remodel and try to get the coppers and estates out of my deck ASAP. My opening two buys are Chapel / Silver, if there's a chapel on the board. Then I use the chapel to trash as many coppers in my hand as I can while keeping enough to buy another silver.

Don't try this if the thief is in play.

Bottom line: A good Dominion deck won't contain bloat. Less actions are more.

I don't think more actions necessarily equates to bloat, but yeah.

 

[StoOgE]

I don't think more actions necessarily equates to bloat, but yeah.

It depends really. When playing with my mother she buys so many action cards that she could go through her deck twice and has 6 actions and 4 buys left over at the end of her turn.

You want to have enough draws, actions and buys to make the most out of the money in your hand. Silver and Gold are the key to the game. Actions are only good insofar as they allow you to use all of the gold in your hand and/or draw more gold. If your additional draws are pulling up half action cards you aren't making efficient use of your draw cards. If your additional actions just pile up buys without enough gold to use them all then you aren't really maximizing effeciency.

It really is about getting the right balance of action cards to gold ratio so that you are able to get as much buying power in your hand as possible and use that gold to procure as many VPs as you can.

That said, you still are going to want Moats, Theives, etc to protect against opponent actions.. and grabbing the witch or other attack cards are also good strategy even if they don't really do much for your mini/max gameplan.

 

[GDJustin]

I don't think more actions necessarily equates to bloat, but yeah.

Card drawers, specially something like village that gives +actions, should pretty much never be an opening play.

The first action card a player buys should be a terminal action, because it'll be the only action in their deck when they reshuffle. There is no need to buy anything that provides +more actions until later turns.

So:

A card-drawing deck basically just allows people to stuff more of their not-so-great deck into their hand. It's much more powerful to just have a very very lean deck, so that it SEEMS like you have 15 witches because they're coming out constantly, but really you have 1-2.

With card-draw strategies you need... more everything. more +cards, more +actions, and (this is frequently overlooked) more +buys. My wife is very fond of Smithy and similar cards and ALL THE TIME she's like "HAHA I have 14 gold... oh... and only one buy "

I'm increasingly finding +actions to be a little overrated, because of how situational they are. I've already explained why they shouldn't be purchased as an opening move. But even later in the game, it seems player turns end with them having more action than they need, instead of more action cards than they can spend. If you DO have more actions than you can spend, you probably should have bought more silver and gold instead.

 

[Qaz Kwaz]

I bought Last Night on Earth thanks to this thread, played it 3 times with my gf and we love it! Any opinions on Flying Frog's other game, A Touch of Evil?

A Touch of Evil is fun, but if you really love LNOE (I do), then the expansions are DEFINITELY worth it. You should definitely get Growing Hunger and Survival of the Fittest. The rest of the "packs" are new scenarios.