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GDJustin said:
Card drawers, specially something like village that gives +actions, should pretty much never be an opening play.

The first action card a player buys should be a terminal action, because it'll be the only action in their deck when they reshuffle. There is no need to buy anything that provides +more actions until later turns.

So:

A card-drawing deck basically just allows people to stuff more of their not-so-great deck into their hand. It's much more powerful to just have a very very lean deck, so that it SEEMS like you have 15 witches because they're coming out constantly, but really you have 1-2.

With card-draw strategies you need... more everything. more +cards, more +actions, and (this is frequently overlooked) more +buys. My wife is very fond of Smithy and similar cards and ALL THE TIME she's like "HAHA I have 14 gold... oh... and only one buy :("

I'm increasingly finding +actions to be a little overrated, because of how situational they are. I've already explained why they shouldn't be purchased as an opening move. But even later in the game, it seems player turns end with them having more action than they need, instead of more action cards than they can spend. If you DO have more actions than you can spend, you probably should have bought more silver and gold instead.
If you are arguing that +Buy is usually superior to +Action then I agree with you. The challenge of beating Big Money is that it always buys something that will aid it from the beginning of the game to the end. Most action cards, on the other hand, have a limited shelf life. As you note, +Action cards like Village have limited usefulness early in the game. +Buy (without help) likewise has limited usefulness early on unless you can profit from a giant deck from Gardens. However, an action card that links a +Buy with some other effect that can build up treasure you can pull ahead of Big Money with little trouble.

"Big Money" (the only buy Silver, Gold, and VP strategy) wins because everything in your deck works toward your goal of sweetening your deck to buy expensive VPs, with the exception of your starting Estates. It results in a deck with a fairly high income (the percentage of cards in the deck which help you buy things) and it gets there fast. Its great downside is its limited degrees of freedom- you are restricted to only one activity per turn, one Buy. Thus Big Money is restricted in the number of advantageous moves it can make per turn. The challenge, therefore, is to either make a higher income deck (Chapel, by ejecting the low-quality cards from Big Money), or to make a deck which allows for more advantageous moves on average than Big Money AND can translate those extra moves into VPs.

Remodel is so fantastic because it turns an Action phase into a specialized Buy phase without the bloat AND it gives you flexibility to change your deck to match the state of the game (early, mid, or late). Card draws like Cellar are nice but easily overdone- as you say, you end up with twelve cards but still only one Buy. +Buys are nice when coupled with + [X] Treasure: the Woodcutter is fantastic for this. For example, two or three Woodcutters can be bolted right on to a Big Money strategy and kick it into overdrive in a few turns. And Mine is a specialized Remodel that keeps things moving very fast, since the Treasure cards boomerang back into your hand. Even the Workshop can help by keeping the pace up in the early game.

The general theme is to pick up actions cards that do something great in the early game and don't become a burden until as late as possible (or at all). Stuff that only gets good later in the game, like Market, Village, and Laboratory, should be avoided.
 
Yeah, I think your points are sound. It's worth pointing out that anything I say about Dominion, no matter how declarative I sound, should be taken with a grain of salt. I've only ever played 1v1, and even then the wife wins more than I do :lol

The thing about Dominion Theorycrafting is that I get the strong impression it goes out the window when you have 3 or 4 people playing. Example: what if only ONE person in a 4P game is bothering with Militias? Is it still worth it to nab libraries/moats? When it's just the wife and I, I only have her deck strategy to concern myself with, and our playstyle is (usually) to leave each other mostly alone. Except lately, with her discovering Witches. Now she's turning into a real slut.
 
Finally got to pĺay some Dominion for the first time, it was a huge flop :(

I played it with a friend yesterday and with my wife today, both were bored to tears with the gameplay. Maybe the recommended "beginner" combination sucks, maybe we don't know the game enough to make it more competitive but it was really boring, both felt they were almost autoplaying, too much shuffling and very little interaction. Maybe it was too hardcore for them, my wife was really turned off by the whole theme.

I really like the concept of the game though. Will try it again with another friend, can someone recommend a good combination of actions?
 
BomberMouse said:
Finally got to pĺay some Dominion for the first time, it was a huge flop :(

I played it with a friend yesterday and with my wife today, both were bored to tears with the gameplay. Maybe the recommended "beginner" combination sucks, maybe we don't know the game enough to make it more competitive but it was really boring, both felt they were almost autoplaying, too much shuffling and very little interaction. Maybe it was too hardcore for them, my wife was really turned off by the whole theme.

I really like the concept of the game though. Will try it again with another friend, can someone recommend a good combination of actions?

Time for a new wife and friends.

Me and the SO played a game tonight where the end was decided by the three supply pile exhaust instead of provinces running out. This is rare in our games. Baron + Embargo + Duke Race = crazy high scores. I had a 71, which is epic big compared to our normal scores.
 
Gatekeeper said:
I'm having 6 people over for a game night. Suggest some good 6 player games that aren't Dominion or Settlers. I have those.

6-7 can be tough..

RoboRally?

Other than that pair up and play normal games as teams.
 
Alhambra, Battlestar Galactica, Last Night on Earth, Power Grid, and Winner's Circle play up to 6.

Bang and Citadels play up to 7.

Bang + expansion, Arkham Horror, and Red November play up to 8.

Saboteur, Slide 5 and Formula De play up to 10.
 
Ferrio said:
Ya the person yesterday that won only had 5 action cards heh.
I would say that quite often in Dominion, especially if there are no +Actions available, having more than 5 actions in the deck is quite bad.

If you are arguing that +Buy is usually superior to +Action then I agree with you. The challenge of beating Big Money is that it always buys something that will aid it from the beginning of the game to the end. Most action cards, on the other hand, have a limited shelf life. As you note, +Action cards like Village have limited usefulness early in the game. +Buy (without help) likewise has limited usefulness early on unless you can profit from a giant deck from Gardens. However, an action card that links a +Buy with some other effect that can build up treasure you can pull ahead of Big Money with little trouble.
In the base Dominion, Big money is quite strong, but still very beatable in most setups. Intrigue and Seaside add many cards that will absolutely crush Big Money.

Remodel is so fantastic because it turns an Action phase into a specialized Buy phase without the bloat AND it gives you flexibility to change your deck to match the state of the game (early, mid, or late). Card draws like Cellar are nice but easily overdone- as you say, you end up with twelve cards but still only one Buy. +Buys are nice when coupled with + X Treasure: the Woodcutter is fantastic for this. For example, two or three Woodcutters can be bolted right on to a Big Money strategy and kick it into overdrive in a few turns. And Mine is a specialized Remodel that keeps things moving very fast, since the Treasure cards boomerang back into your hand. Even the Workshop can help by keeping the pace up in the early game.
Remodel is awesome, for turning Estates to something useful - and because you can remodel Remodels to Gold and Gold to Provinces.

Woodcutter is pretty bad. If it's the only +Buy available, it's ok, but it's probably the worst card for just +Buys. Of course if you have no other Actions in Deck, it's ok - but even then a card drawer is more likely to get you to 8 coins earlier and the +Buys aren't needed in Big Money type of play until you get at least 10 coins.

Workshop is also pretty weak, since most other actions will give you something better than an extra 4 coin card. (Workshop + Gardens + Throne Room is the way to victory, though.) Ironworks, instead, is pretty awesome, since it gives you the +Action or +Coin bonus.

Oh, and Cellar is not really card draw in the sense that you'd add cards to your hand, but card swap. And it's awesome, especially if you have no way to get rid of bad cards or play for Gardens. Another bonus from Cellar and all card drawers is that they allow you to shuffle more often. Early on, it's very beneficial to get your new good cards quickly in play. (The chancellor is very good early on, which many people don't realize.)

The general theme is to pick up actions cards that do something great in the early game and don't become a burden until as late as possible (or at all). Stuff that only gets good later in the game, like Market, Village, and Laboratory, should be avoided.
Market and Laboratory are always very good. Especially the Lab is one of the best 5 cost cards from any of the sets. Of course they become even more powerful as your deck improves. Village is overrated by new players, but it can be good if you go for a draw-the-whole-deck strategy. There are much better +2 Action cards in the expansions though.

However, there are many cards which are insane in the beginning and dead weight later on: Chapel, Baron, Trading Post... very often opening with one of these is by far a better strategy than only going for cards that never become obsolete. Getting that first Gold on turn three is often a good deal for accepting the later useless Baron...
 
Chez PAX played Robo Rally (tournament and casual), Dominion, Battle Line, Citadels (awesome and cheesy as always), Race for the Galaxy, Bananagrams (pretty popular bookstore game, but definitely fun for a bookstore game), and Agricola (which Flynn did a great job of teaching to us). Going back for one last day, maybe sneak in a bit more gaming, or maybe hit the show floor quickly and get back home in time for some Agricola tonight. :D
 
Finally got to play Dominion. Thanks to reading this last page, I had several big wins, and a very close second. :)

Also did a few rounds of (2-player) Pandemic, which was really fun. Got our asses kicked the first two games, then absolutely destroyed shit the third game with the Medic and the Researcher.
 
Cyan said:
Finally got to play Dominion. Thanks to reading this last page, I had several big wins, and a very close second. :)

Also did a few rounds of (2-player) Pandemic, which was really fun. Got our asses kicked the first two games, then absolutely destroyed shit the third game with the Medic and the Researcher.

I pretty much always make sure I have medic or researcher for a two player game. The game is way too fucking hard without one of them. on the other hand, it's a bit easy with both of them.

I played it as the researcher and just sort of sat in Atlanta and never moved aside from going to meet the medic in a few cities to swap cards :lol
 
I ordered Arkham Horror (along with Dominion) this past weekend. I know several of you play Arkham Horror so maybe you can help me out... Looking through the BGG.com AH files, I'm trying to figure out which files/printouts would be most helpful for some first time players. I've watched tutorials and play throughs on youtube so I have a fairly good idea how the game goes but my friends will have no clue and I'd like to try to keep the game moving as much as possible (one of them in particular has a short attention span, but that's mostly due to her not really liking games at all to begin with, she just comes with her husband). Any advice?
 
ToddG15 said:
I ordered Arkham Horror (along with Dominion) this past weekend. I know several of you play Arkham Horror so maybe you can help me out... Looking through the BGG.com AH files, I'm trying to figure out which files/printouts would be most helpful for some first time players. I've watched tutorials and play throughs on youtube so I have a fairly good idea how the game goes but my friends will have no clue and I'd like to try to keep the game moving as much as possible (one of them in particular has a short attention span, but that's mostly due to her not really liking games at all to begin with, she just comes with her husband). Any advice?
The Headless Hollow Guide: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5w8wm5g13d/ArkhamHorror_v5.1.pdf?

Slightly shorter, and maybe easier to pass out, the turn reference: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5yswzsmu20/ArkhamHorrorGameTurnAndReference.pdf?

Let me strongly suggest you do two solo playthroughs with two investigators and then maybe quickly skim through the BGG Rules forum to see if you played anything wrong or if any of your issues are addressed there.

The "short attention span" comment is scary w/r/t AH. Unless she is super into the theme or into adventure-type games, I can't see her making it past the first few rounds. Just remember that once you know all the rules, and have done solo playthroughs, the game can be taught way quicker than it can be learned. Just here's your character, here's what we do (run around and pick up clues and seal gates), etc. You don't have to worry about explaining the intricacies like the Terror Track until they come up.
 
AstroLad said:
The Headless Hollow Guide: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5w8wm5g13d/ArkhamHorror_v5.1.pdf?

Slightly shorter, and maybe easier to pass out, the turn reference: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5yswzsmu20/ArkhamHorrorGameTurnAndReference.pdf?

Let me strongly suggest you do two solo playthroughs with two investigators and then maybe quickly skim through the BGG Rules forum to see if you played anything wrong or if any of your issues are addressed there.

The "short attention span" comment is scary w/r/t AH. Unless she is super into the theme or into adventure-type games, I can't see her making it past the first few rounds. Just remember that once you know all the rules, and have done solo playthroughs, the game can be taught way quicker than it can be learned. Just here's your character, here's what we do (run around and pick up clues and seal gates), etc. You don't have to worry about explaining the intricacies like the Terror Track until they come up.
Thanks, I'll check those out. And I planned to play through at least a couple of times before having them join in. =) And yah, she has a short attention span but she's mostly there just because her husband is, not because she enjoys ANY games. I think my core group of friends that actually enjoy playing will like the game but the potential downfall I could see (at least for the first couple playthroughs) is how long the game could last. They are somewhat use to longer lasting games from our LNOE playthroughs but 3 hours+ may down them off at first.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
Alhambra, Battlestar Galactica, Last Night on Earth, Power Grid, and Winner's Circle play up to 6.

Bang and Citadels play up to 7.

Bang + expansion, Arkham Horror, and Red November play up to 8.

Saboteur, Slide 5 and Formula De play up to 10.
Citadels can play up to 8 if you add in the additional ninth character card, though it gets pretty bogged down at that point.
 
Neverfade said:
So, rub in my face how awesome PAX was and how I suck for missing it all.
It was very fun. Major bummer you couldn't be there.

Met up with Flynn & Co. a couple of times on Friday for a nice helping of gaming. Met up with some other folks on Saturday and even met a few people in the tournaments we played and just around the boardgaming area. The tournaments were fun too, super laid back, and Z-Man and others were there. Got to try out a bit of Mystery Express, which I believe is coming out soon. If we were more into Magic/Warhammer/D&D it would have been even more droolworthy but we pretty much stick to the Euros and Eurolikes. Sort of blitzed through the expo floor as that's not really my thing, and it's definitely not my wife's, but briefly checked out Crackdown 2, Starcraft 2, and one or two other things. Good amount of people cosplaying which is always fun. My biggest success (beyond learning Agricola) was the Lumines tournament where I made it through three rounds to the semifinals where I lost to the eventual winner (who was awesome; I played him in freeplay and I knew he was going to win). There was an insane amount of panels and presentations too. It would be literally impossible to ever be bored there. And cool that they kept things open until 2 AM (not the show floor, but the rest) which we took advantage of twice. Oh, and the boardgame borrowing they had was really good. Almost was unnecessary to bring my big suitcase and duffel full of games.

Has both of us pretty stoked to try out a more pure boardgaming con. BGG unfortunately doesn't work with our schedules but maybe something else in between now and then.
 
Yeah wife and I got into Agricola. Played it twice more since. Only big issue I can see is serious AP in later rounds when there are so many different options available. May implement a timer like we do with Mr. Jack. Next up on backlog games to learn: Power Grid.

Thinking of maybe heading to GenCon later this year. Have to see about a couple things first but that's the plan.
 
It is a good replacement to Clue. My only problem -- and I knew this going in -- was that I don't really like deduction games. But as far as deduction games go, it's far and away the best I've played. The production quality is through the roof as usual and it's cool that the winner is the person who got the most elements right. I've taken a quick skim through some of the BGG reviews and it seems like BGG is a bit harsher (guess it's no Pandemic?), mostly people complaining about play length (~2 hours) and tons of comparisons to other deduction games I haven't played so keep that in mind I suppose.

Edit: Also made arrangements last night for GenCon this year. Too bad it's so far away.
 
Made an order with thoughthammer just now.
Ticket to Ride: USA 1910 Expansion
Ticket To Ride
Last Night On Earth: Growing Hunger
Last Night on Earth: Survival of the Fittest

I was close to picking up the Agricola expansion but decided against it. While I love the game we still haven't even touched the other decks. It's still new to us so why try to spice it up when it really doesn't need it yet.

Ticket to Ride is a must have game that I didn't have. After reading about the 1910 expansion here I figured I needed that as well.

Finally the LNoE expansions are a must. I've been looking at which ones that I feel are necessary and Growing Hunger and Survival of the Fittest seems like the best choices. This combination seemed like ti was the best mix of new characters, scenarios, and game play mechanics. I might pick up the other two small box expansions later on down the road but these seemed essential.
 
So, the new RftG expansion looks to be a bit much. I'll probably just stick to base + 1st expansion.

One of the more egregious offenders:
24v371c.jpg


Seriously? Yeesh.
 
Just read through the takeover rules this morning since I realized when we were playing with Flynn this weekend that I hadn't even read the RvI instructions past "The
first game in each game session has takeovers off." (Seriously, who does that? Talk about lack of confidence in your new mechanic.). But if the new expansion really does make takeovers more fun then I'd like to be ready to play and teach it, although unfortunately the added complexity and ridiculous amount of symbols in RvI almost guarantee I'll never teach the game to a casual player again like I used to in the halcyon days of base RFTG.
 
I think there are too many new gimmicky mechanics in these cards. We'll see though.

Shuffle through the deck to find the card you want?
Unveil your turn last?

I mean.. everyone revealing the action they chose at once is the best part of the game.
 
To be fair, it's a pretty expensive card that gives you -1 military too and no other benefit. But man that RFTG deck is already too big at this point. RFTG used to be a game that looked intimidating but was actually quite elegantly designed, such that once people got past the symbols and slight learning curve, everything started to make perfect sense. Not that way anymore.
 
AstroLad said:
To be fair, it's a pretty expensive card that gives you -1 military too and no other benefit. But man that RFTG deck is already too big at this point. RFTG used to be a game that looked intimidating but was actually quite elegantly designed, such that once people got past the symbols and slight learning curve, everything started to make perfect sense. Not that way anymore.
This is basically why I've stuck to the first expansion. It has just the right mix of simplicity and complexity, and the strategies are nicely balanced.
 
One last quick note about PAX: Two games that were insanely popular (beyond the obvious Magic/Warhammer/Dominion/Catan) were Small World and Pandemic. Small World in particular I saw being played 5+ times. Not a big fan of either game -- I knew Pandemic had a pretty big following (and most seemed to be playing with the expansion), but I didn't know Small World was so popular.
 
I've grown really fond of small world.

It probably helps that it is a pretty new game and with easy set up and a short play time. Especially if it was a war game heavy crowd it makes sense that a light war game would be popular.
 
I think the fantasy theme was a big part of it. The game is really pretty and cute, if insanely chitty. Not many wargamers there that I noticed though.
 
Just ordered Runewars off CSI. I've heard good things and my gaming group is eager to give it a shot. I did the rush order and free shipping (got a few more chapter packs for A Game of Thrones LCG - my favorite card game) and I should have it Friday for our next gaming session. Very excited.

BTW, Cool Stuff Inc is awesome. I forgot to apply a gift certificate I had for my birthday on the order but I called them up and they credited the full amount of the gift certificate to my credit card. Very good customer service.
 
I actually picked up a copy of Small World when I was at PAX this weekend. Well, I picked it up from a boardgame/puzzle store in Boston, not from the convention itself. I probably won't have a chance to play it for another week or two, but I am looking forward to it.

I also agree that there didn't see to be much of a wargamer crowd at PAX. Honestly the only one a saw that was getting any attention was a copy of A&A, and that was only because it was being used to show off a designer of dedicated boardgame furniture in the expo hall.

On a different topic, I feel stupid since I just found out RftG: The Gathering Storm expands the game out to 5 players. I somehow never noticed that, although it makes me happy since that is the size of my normal boardgame group. I will have to work that in sometime soon. Tomorrow one of them will be missing, so I am busy learning Through the Ages so we can play that.
 
I just registered for BGG. Sorry to hear you can't make it, Astrolad. It was really great to meet and play with you.

I'm looking forward to a con where I don't have to work. ONLY BOARDGAMES.
 
Flynn said:
It was really great to meet and play with you.
Yeah man it was tons of fun. Friday was definitely our highlight day, we just did so much. Glad I brought Dominion because it felt perfect for that group, and learning Agricola was an event years[ish] in the making. We've played three 1v1 games since.

edit: gotta add this expansion card to citadels next time
14ui8ba.jpg


ONLY BOARDGAMES
THIS. (Will be GenCon for us (though I'm sure you'll be at least part working there); hopefully we can make it--got the badges and hotel already!)
 
I'm thinking of going to BGG con actually. I have friends in Dallas and it's a 3 hour drive (with kolaches haflway!). I could make it a half boardgame playing half hanging with friends thing..

but I'd probably have to go alone given that my friends are all normal and I'm a closet nerd.
 
Didn't even notice this was being made until today:
pic695896_md.jpg

:lol oh FFP.

Apparenty it's fully compatible with LNOE:
Also, as Invasion From Outer Space is built using the Last Night on Earth game engine, the two games are fully compatible. With ease, players can now have their Martians invade the small town of Woodinvale, Zombies attack the Carnival, or even play a massive game with up to three independent factions (Heroes, Zombies, and Martians). The possibilities are endless.

Need to play some more LNOE; I've got one of the expansions sitting unplayed.
 
AstroLad said:
One last quick note about PAX: Two games that were insanely popular (beyond the obvious Magic/Warhammer/Dominion/Catan) were Small World and Pandemic. Small World in particular I saw being played 5+ times. Not a big fan of either game -- I knew Pandemic had a pretty big following (and most seemed to be playing with the expansion), but I didn't know Small World was so popular.

I think part of this might have been that these were the two board games that Wil Wheaton mentioned in the keynote.

I wish I had though to try and meet up with some of you all, I would've loved to have played a few games of something.
 
ultron87 said:
I think part of this might have been that these were the two board games that Wil Wheaton mentioned in the keynote.
Yeah, just noticed that yesterday when I finally checked out the keynote (passed up on it in favor of Peggle and Robo Rally tournaments).
 
I know I shouldn't be this much of an art snob, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to play LNoE or that one. Look soooooooooooooooooooo cheesy.

Also: Not strictly board game related, but took 4th place in a poker tourney the other day. 25ish participants. I forgot how much I like poker.
 
platypotamus said:
I know I shouldn't be this much of an art snob, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to play LNoE or that one. Look soooooooooooooooooooo cheesy.

Also: Not strictly board game related, but took 4th place in a poker tourney the other day. 25ish participants. I forgot how much I like poker.

I kind of agree. I get that it's the point that the game looks cheasy and all.. but still.

Small World is about as far as I am willing to go with goofyness.
 
StoOgE said:
I'm thinking of going to BGG con actually.

Just a suggestion for everyone that's even remotely considering going to BGG.con. Register early, because once it is sold out, you will have a hard time getting a ticket afterward, the waiting list is long. It is much easier to get rid of one (refund or resale) if you change your mind than trying to obtain one.
 
I've never been to BGG con (or any other similar con unless Quakecon counts). It seems expensive. I guess it's worth the price of admission?
 
platypotamus said:
I know I shouldn't be this much of an art snob, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to play LNoE or that one. Look soooooooooooooooooooo cheesy.
I feel the same about Touch of Evil. With LNoE at least the pictures fit the B-movie theme.

The "vampire" is what is keeping me away:
2uyq5oz.jpg
 
Last Night on Earth is AWESOME. Yeah it's a little cheesy but hey. My buddy painted the hero figures for that game, he did a great job with it. I should post pictures of them sometime.
 
platypotamus said:
I know I shouldn't be this much of an art snob, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to play LNoE or that one. Look soooooooooooooooooooo cheesy.
It's actually not bad at all with LNoE. It fits perfectly with the b-movie theme, the cheese helps greatly. The other FFG products, notsomuch I'm afraid.
 
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