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[Geki-D]

What are your theories, aside from "They're lying"?

Probably more stuff like this, where "impossible" acceleration is actually just a misunderstood zoom:


People seem to see stuff they don't understand and put it down to the paranormal. And when their story gets them famous, they have little incentive to actually believe anything else.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Probably more stuff like this, where "impossible" acceleration is actually just a misunderstood zoom:


People seem to see stuff they don't understand and put it down to the paranormal. And when their story gets them famous, they have little incentive to actually believe anything else.

His "counterevidence" is based on pilot radar, but ground radar is especially when ground radar is backing up what they see in terms of stopping and starting. How would ground radar be tricked by depth perception?

You can calculate the average speed for some of these events based on their descriptions.

2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’ (Published 2017)

What began as a training mission took a bizarre turn in 2004, an encounter that caught the attention of a Pentagon program investigating U.F.O.s.

www.nytimes.com

Commander Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said.

Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.

But then the object peeled away. "It accelerated like nothing I've ever seen," he said in the interview. He was, he said, "pretty weirded out."

The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.

They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.

"Sir, you won't believe it," the radio operator said, "but that thing is at your cap point."

"We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point," Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.

By the time the two fighter jets arrived at the rendezvous point, the object had disappeared.

The object, per both pilot and ground corroboration, traveled a minimum of 60 miles in a maximum of a minute. 60 miles = 96560.6 meters so the object had to be traveling at an average speed of 1609 m/s, roughly Mach 4.6, during the transit, starting from stationary/upward velocity where it was easily visible to the pilot. There is no contemporary plane which can do that. It also somehow went to their rendezvous point (indicating either that it was intercepting their communications or had one hell of a lucky random crawl) and disappeared when they arrived.

All that piddly little "debunking" video does is give one possibility that would account for one small part of the interaction and claims to have solved it all by ignoring the rest. It is unscientific; all the evidence has to be accounted for.

 

[eot]

Hit us with the truth then, brother.

exactly

There's no "truth" but the way that he describes for example the warping of space around the ship is nonsensical, for several reasons. First of all, the bending of space (spacetime) is caused by energy, this is what GR tells us. If you have a spacecraft with enough energy to curve space in a perceptible way, it would be doing so constantly, it's not something you can turn on or off, because the energy is there regardless. Secondly, the amount of curvature he's talking about is quite frankly absurd. I did a back of the envelope calculation, and for a 10 m object to deflect a light ray by a single degree, it would need to have 10 times the mass of the Earth. That leads into my last point, which is that you don't get gravitational bending of light without also having a strong gravitational pull; if you're seeing an object bend light at such a close distance, it would pull everyone and everything in the room toward itself.

 

[12Goblins]

Thanks Joe, that Migraine was killing me

stolen from reddit

 

[Geki-D]

His "counterevidence" is based on pilot radar, but ground radar is especially when ground radar is backing up what they see in terms of stopping and starting. How would ground radar be tricked by depth perception?

You can calculate the average speed for some of these events based on their descriptions.

2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’ (Published 2017)

What began as a training mission took a bizarre turn in 2004, an encounter that caught the attention of a Pentagon program investigating U.F.O.s.

www.nytimes.com

The object, per both pilot and ground corroboration, traveled a minimum of 60 miles in a maximum of a minute. 60 miles = 96560.6 meters so the object had to be traveling at an average speed of 1609 m/s, roughly Mach 4.6, during the transit, starting from stationary/upward velocity where it was easily visible to the pilot. There is no contemporary plane which can do that. It also somehow went to their rendezvous point (indicating either that it was intercepting their communications or had one hell of a lucky random crawl) and disappeared when they arrived.

All that piddly little "debunking" video does is give one possibility that would account for one small part of the interaction and claims to have solved it all by ignoring the rest. It is unscientific; all the evidence has to be accounted for.

And yet the only actual evidence we have, besides what some guys tell us, shows that zoom eliminates the acceleration. Are you denying that the video I posted does explain the infrared footage?

 

[infinitys_7th]

And yet the only actual evidence we have, besides what some guys tell us, shows that zoom eliminates the acceleration.

So three guys, two sets of pilot radar and and IR, and one ground radar system all either malfunctioned simultaneously or are part of some sort of conspiracy theory.

Are you denying that the video I posted does explain the infrared footage?

It is just a possibility for the specific footage he looked at. Observation and science do not prove things, but allow for the development of hypotheses and theories based on the sum of the evidence and controlled testing - that is Scientific Method 101. He put forward a hypothesis that accounts for a small part of the interaction and contradicts the rest of it, because obviously the object did travel Mach 4.6 based on three independent corroborating observations.

That is a standard debunking tactic - find one explanation for a small portion of a story, then scream "Occam's Razor" at the top of their lungs even if their explanation contradicts the rest of the evidence.

 

[Geki-D]

So three guys, two sets of pilot radar and and IR, and one ground radar system all either malfunctioned simultaneously or are part of some sort of conspiracy theory.

And yet the only evidence put forward doesn't show what they're claiming.

It is just a possibility for the specific footage he looked at.

The zoom is show in the IR's HUD, so it's not just "a possibility", it's literally what happened. Of course nearly all of these so-called UFO experts "examining" (and I use that word in the flimsiest way possible), the footage are so wrapped up in their confirmation bias, they didn't even read what the HUD said and instead cried "Impossible speed!" because that's what they wanted to see.

He put forward a hypothesis that accounts for a small part of the interaction and contradicts the rest of it, because obviously the object did travel Mach 4.6 based on three independent corroborating observations.

That is a standard debunking tactic - find one explanation for a small portion of a story, then scream "Occam's Razor" at the top of their lungs even if their explanation contradicts the rest of the evidence.

We can only apply the scientific method to the evidence released. Without any further evidence, right now their claims should be doubted as what they have shown goes against their claims leaving us with only eye witness accounts and claims that other equipment backs them up but seeing as they released no records of that, it's still just their empty claims. Eye witness accounts are known to be untrustworthy, so in till they release the right IR footage, they got nothing.

I don't buy into your religious beliefs, I'm afraid. I'm not going to take what these guy say on faith alone.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

Good interview.

My favorite part really wasnt Phil.

It to me was the last 30min when Rogan went on his stoner rant. Starting at 'We are the reproductive organs of the machines'

Straight up dropped some knowledge imo.

 

[infinitys_7th]

And yet the only evidence put forward doesn't show what they're claiming.

What they saw on their equipment is literally evidence given that it is corroborated. There is probably a record of the ground radar that the military could release if it wanted to. In fact, it seems strange that only the IR was released, when the rest of it should be available.

The zoom is show in the IR's HUD, so it's not just "a possibility", it's literally what happened. Of course nearly all of these so-called UFO experts "examining" (and I use that word in the flimsiest way possible), the footage are so wrapped up in their confirmation bias, they didn't even read what the HUD said and instead cried "Impossible speed!" because that's what they wanted to see.

What makes that guy an expert versus the people in the military? Actually, it is just a possibility. You all are fond of claiming "coincidence" at every turn, so maybe it did zoom and and the footage does not actually show when it started to travel. Again, there are three corroborating measurements which saw a craft travel 60 miles, at at least Mach 4.6, which you still have yet to address in a reasonable way beyond "They made it all up together for money! Muh conspiracy theory!" Debunkers approve conspiracy theories when they use them; I always found that irony fascinating.

We can only apply the scientific method to the evidence released. Without any further evidence, right now their claims should be doubted as what they have shown goes against their claims leaving us with only eye witness accounts and claims that other equipment backs them up but seeing as they released no records of that, it's still just their empty claims. Eye witness accounts are known to be untrustworthy, so in till they release the right IR footage, they got nothing.

I don't buy into your religious beliefs, I'm afraid. I'm not going to take what these guy say on faith alone.

How does a short clip debunk things that happened after the clip?

These are not eyewitness accounts, unless someone reading a measurement off an instrument is an "eyewitness account". I guess we need to have 50 people in every lab across the country to watch every pH measurement, every cell count, because someone recording by themselves is unreliable, and according to you even 3 people seeing the same thing across a range of independent instruments is not enough. May as well just shut down every lab in the country, because clearly we cannot trust their "eyewitness account".

Bullshit. The only person with faith is you; dogmatic, unable to listen to reason, and believing in things like the eyewitness fallacy (i.e. that everything anyone witnesses is unreliable regardless of situation) with absurd conclusions.

Observation of transient phenomenon allows, at most, a hypothesis to be formed, because transient phenomenon are not testable. You literally can only make hypotheses and not draw conclusions without testability. That is how science works.

 

[Geki-D]

There is probably a record of the ground radar that the military could release if it wanted to.

"Probably"

Again, there are three corroborating measurements which saw a craft travel 60 miles, at at least Mach 4.6

Show me.

These are not eyewitness accounts, unless someone reading a measurement off an instrument is an "eyewitness account".

I drove at 99999KM/h yesterday. It said so on my car's speed dial. This must be true because I'm claiming my car's speed dial said so and a measurement reading is always true.

Bullshit. The only person with faith is you

This is just hilarious considering what you just said. "probably" indeed. Take it on faith, please.

 

[infinitys_7th]

"Probably"

The military keeps records of ground radar, and particularly of engagements. It is more than likely classified, but considering a radar operator literally saw it happen on the radar and was corroborated by two pilots with separate radar system, I'm inclined to trust them, unless you think folie a deux can somehow afflict machinery.

Show me.

I already did. Your faith in nonsense like conspiracy theories about them lying for money and the eyewitness fallacy is keeping you from comprehending it.

I drove at 99999KM/h yesterday. It said so on my car's speed dial. This must be true because I'm claiming my car's speed dial said so and a measurement reading is always true.

I guess we need to shut down every laboratory in the country then. We cannot trust anything at all, if radar used literally every day cannot be trusted. Just throw it all away. All of science is for naught.

If the conclusion is absurd, then the assumption is absurd.

This is just hilarious considering what you just said. "probably" indeed. take it on faith, please.

I said that the military probably has a record of it, because they are likely to have it considering the circumstances. Outside of that, we have three operators reporting corroborating measurements from a variety of instruments, so it is not feasible, outside of your conspiracy theory of them being liars, that something similar to their corroboration did not occur. That is enough for me to form a hypothesis that the object is technological and not contemporary to our civilization based on the sum of the evidence. Their corroborating reports of equipment measurements are scientific evidence by definition.

 

[Geki-D]

unless you think folie a deux can somehow afflict machinery.

I haven't seen the machinery's record, and neither have you.

I already did.

Nope. In regards to this you've only linked an interview with people claiming stuff. SHOW ME THE MEASUREMENTS. Right now we have IR footage that contradicts what they're claiming.

I guess we need to shut down every laboratory in the country then. We cannot trust anything at all, if radar used literally every day cannot be trusted. Just throw it all away. All of science is for naught.

Labs show their readings to backup their claims. You seem to be having a serious problem understanding that claiming a reading isn't showing the reading.

we have three operators reporting corroborating measurements from a variety of instruments

Without providing the measurements, you're taking them on faith. The only released footage doesn't support their claim. Your confirmation bias is through the roof.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I haven't seen the machinery's record, and neither have you.

Nope. In regards to this you've only linked an interview with people claiming stuff. SHOW ME THE MEASUREMENTS.

I already did, as were presented by multiple corroborating sources. Even if they were misremembering by a factor of 2 in their numbers, the object sill somehow sped up from stationary to an average of Mach 2.3 over a minute and then stopped again, or however you want to apply the factor.

Labs show their readings to backup their claims. You seem to be having a serious problem understanding that claiming a reading isn't showing the reading.

Do labs have photos of all their measurements? We have no idea if the researchers are misreading every reading they are "eyewitnesses" to, after all. Maybe that 9.3 pH was actually 9.8 pH? Maybe they are lying for money too.

Oh, wait. That's absurd.

Without providing the measurements, you're taking them on faith.

Which is perfectly valid, as this is an observation. Prove otherwise, without resorting to the eyewitness fallacy or a conspiracy theory.

The only released footage doesn't support their claim.

The footage you claim as counterevidence is about a minute long, substantially shorter than the encounter and leaving out key details like the approach to the object, the object leaving, and the pursuit of the object to the cap point. Clips of footage are not necessarily indicative of what happened, unless you fell for "back and to the left". It is incapable of supporting or hurting their claims as a whole.

Your confirmation bias is through the roof.

I would say "pot and kettle", but that would imply that I have a confirmation bias as well.

 

[Geki-D]

I already did, as were presented by multiple corroborating sources.

Again, claims of measurements are not measurements. BTW, as someone who worked at S4, I can corroborate that Cunth's uncle worked at S4. Therefore it must be true as there are multiple sources claiming it.

Prove otherwise

Prove a negative? Nah dawg, that's not how that works.

The footage you claim as counterevidence is about a minute long, substantially shorter than the encounter and leaving out key details like the approach to the object, the object leaving, and the pursuit of the object to the cap point. Clips of footage are not necessarily indicative of what happened, unless you fell for "back and to the left".

Too bad they didn't release the part of the footage that backs up their claims then, huh. Funny, that.

I would say "pot and kettle", but that would imply that I have a confirmation bias as well.

You're clearly on the UFO bandwagon. All you're really showing is that you're not self-aware.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Again, claims of measurements are not measurements. BTW, as someone who worked at S4, I can corroborate that Cunth's uncle worked at S4. Therefore it must be true as there are multiple sources claiming it.

Literally every research paper every written contains claim of measurements and not actual measurements. Unless you were there firsthand to witness the measurement, you are implicitly taking their claims as evidence of measurement and placing trust with them. Have you not had any training or experience in research?

This is why repeated experiments are done, even on phenomenon with actual theory developed around them. We are still in the observation phase of figuring out what these objects are, at least as far as public knowledge goes. Also, this is literally how research is done in the natural sciences.

"Someone saw an unusual animal? Let me go see if I can find it."

"Oh, today I saw it, but it flew away. Here are my notes from the encounter. Maybe eventually I will catch one."

"Today I caught a new species of butterfly. I have it in a bottle on my desk".

Your almost emotional scorn for investigating things without direct evidence would hamper that field alone.

Prove a negative? Nah dawg, that's not how that works.

Actually, that is also not how "proving a negative" works. You can negate any statement. I could easily claim that your asking for additional evidence is asking me to prove that they did not lie.

Prove a negative? Nah dawg, that's not how that works. Or is that negative somehow different?

Too bad they didn't release the part of the footage that backs up their claims then, huh. Funny, that.

It's almost like soldiers do not have access or clearance to release engagement records themselves

Guess any leaks about the atomic bomb project prior to the bomb drop should have resulted in Teller and Oppenheimer and everyone involved being called liars and scam artists. "Harnessing the power of the atom? What kooks! I need to see the blast first!"

 

[Geki-D]

Literally every research paper every written contains claim of measurements and not actual measurements. Unless you were there firsthand to witness the measurement, you are implicitly taking their claims as evidence of measurement and placing trust with them. Have you not had any training or experience in research?

This is why repeated experiments are done, even on phenomenon with actual theory developed around them. We are still in the observation phase of figuring out what these objects are, at least as far as public knowledge goes. Also, this is literally how research is done in the natural sciences.

"Someone saw an unusual animal? Let me go see if I can find it."

"Oh, today I saw it, but it flew away. Here are my notes from the encounter. Maybe eventually I will catch one."

"Today I caught a new species of butterfly. I have it in a bottle on my desk".

Your almost emotional scorn for investigating things without direct evidence would hamper that field alone.

Guess any leaks about the atomic bomb project prior to the bomb drop should have resulted in Teller and Oppenheimer and everyone involved being called liars and scam artists. "Harnessing the power of the atom? What kooks! I need to see the blast first!"

I love these false equivalencies you keep throwing out. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and whatnot. And of course scientists provide their measurements, that's how their experiments are repeatable.

Actually, that is also not how "proving a negative" works. You can negate any statement. I could easily claim that your asking for additional evidence is asking me to prove that they did not lie.

Prove a negative? Nah dawg, that's not how that works. Or is that negative somehow different?

-Their claim: They encountered a UFO doing impossible speeds.
-Their evidence: A video not showing a UFO doing impossible speeds.
-My position: Imma need some better proof before I believe that, dawg.
-What you're asking: Prove they didn't see a UFO going impossible speeds.

You have no idea what "proving a negative" means.

It's almost like soldiers do not have access or clearance to release engagement records themselves

And yet there being any footage released at all should therefore be impossible.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I love these false equivalencies you keep throwing out.

Like your nonsense about "eyewitnesses not being reliable" when the circumstances under which that is true is entirely different than the circumstances in this interaction?

Eyewitnesses are implicitly those not directly involved - someone merely witnesses an event and is asked to recall it later. They are not looking at multiple instruments and corroborating what they see with other people during the event; they just see something, and without focus a distorted version will get put into long-term memory, if it is even stored at all.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and whatnot.

Subjective and meaningless. What is "extraordinary"? Give me a unit of it, or I do not really care in a rational discussion. All I care about is what is true and what is absurd/self-contradictory. Argue the facts, "skeptic".

And of course scientists provide their measurements, that's how their experiments are repeatable.

No, the experiments are repeatable because the methods were described. Observation, especially of transient phenomenon, is inherently not repeatable.

-Their claim: They encountered a UFO doing impossible speeds.
-Their evidence: A video not showing a UFO doing impossible speeds.
-My position: Imma need some better proof before I believe that, dawg.
-What you're asking: Prove they didn't see a UFO going impossible speeds.

It is not "their" evidence - the military released it.

You have no idea what "proving a negative" means.

I think you are the one confused - by claiming that they are lying, without evidence, and denying that their evidence has any validity, without evidence, you are asking me to prove that they did not lie.

And yet there being any footage released at all should therefore be impossible.

It depends on what the military thinks should be declassified. Would they want something that clearly indicates a threat to be declassified? Unlikely.

 

[jason10mm]

It was a fun podcast. I didn't care for the producer guy though, he had a very slippery way of speaking that REALLY screamed "snake oil".

It also seems odd that Bob can't verify his education. Doesn't he have transcripts, grades, diplomas, yearbooks, living quarters, drivers license, old school ids, all the stuff you accumulate in college? He also didn't seem like a very smart guy who spent 30 years pondering this tech. I could come up with several ideas of what the ships were in just a few minutes while he seemed very perplexed.

 

[MrCunningham]

I have been following Bob Lazar for a long time now. Going back to his exploits on Coast 2 Coast AM and George Knapp. Either Bob Lazar is telling the truth, or he is one of the greatest actors of all time. Because his story never changes, it is always consistent. The man said things back then, that turned out to be true now. I still don't know what to think about him. Trying to call this man out as a liar while bringing up evidence to prove it is an incredibly hard thing to do. Like almost impossible.

 

[Geki-D]

Like your nonsense about "eyewitnesses not being reliable" when the circumstances under which that is true is entirely different than the circumstances in this interaction?

And yet Defense and security writer Kyle Mizokami and Science journalist Dennis Overbye also put forward the same reasoning as me by pointing out a misunderstanding of the readings and "as modern psychology and neuroscience have established, the senses are an unreliable portal to reality, whatever that is." Without the actual readings, these claims remain eyewitness testament and are therefore subject to the same amount of scrutiny and critique as any other eyewitness testament. This is only aggravated by the fact the only footage released doesn't support their claims despite believers having blind faith it does.

Subjective and meaningless. What is "extraordinary"?

Extreme, physical law breaking acceleration are "extraordinary claims". Or are you actually saying that there is nothing extraordinary about this encounter? In which case why do we even care?

It is not "their" evidence - the military released it.

And yet it's the evidence UFO nuts use to prove the incident, yet it shows nothing unusual.

No, the experiments are repeatable because the methods were described.

Utterly untrue. Exact measurements and readings are always reported in scientific papers. Their whole point is to present them. Most scientific papers also don't deal in such extraordinary claims and as you yourself say, this is irrelevant because here we're talking about a "transient phenomenon". So thanks for admitting that you bringing up scientific papers in the first place was a false equivalency.

I think you are the one confused - by claiming that they are lying, without evidence, and denying that their evidence has any validity, without evidence, you are asking me to prove that they did not lie.

They're the ones making positive claims so they're the ones that need to back them up. Calling into question their extraordinary claims on the utter lack of evidence doesn't need any evidence in of itself, it's utterly stupid to assume it should and shows you're just saying that to try and one-up me in the conversation (A literal, childish "NO U"). Please stop trying to appeal to science & logic here because you're REALLY bad at it.
I also did supply evidence that clearly shows the video, once corrected for zoom, shows no abnormal acceleration. As far as that video goes, it's debunked.

 

[Queso de Grande]

I enjoyed the podcast. It got a lot better near the end when Bob Lazar loosened up a bit. That said, I tried watching the Netflix documentary they kept referring to and it was an unwatchable mess.

 

[timeflais]

Lazar does not speak for you, he speaks for his handlers.
As powerful people are pushed against the ropes for their crimes, they will try distract you with soft-disclosure on extra-terrestrial life.
This is the same role that Tom DeLonge plays. Whatever they reveal may have a hint of truth, but it it isnt even the tippy-top of the iceberg.

Understand, we have already made contact.
We have already traveled further than we've ever been told.
Full disclosure will come.
Where do you think the $21 trillion really went?
Fantasy will become real life, they've been waving it in your face for a long time.
Space Force.

 

[logicslayer]

Thanks for the heads up. I generally only listen to his show if it's someone I know of or if it's recommended by someone.

 

[Rentahamster]

I would say "pot and kettle", but that would imply that I have a confirmation bias as well.

Insisting that you are not under the effects of confirmation bias is a tell that you are under the effects of confirmation bias.

 

[Mochilador]

That should be interesting, I'm watching it right now.

 

[zenspider]

I made it about 40 min into this rambling loon

edit: seems legit

edit2: oh ok

His working at Los Alamos has been verified - it would make less sense that he was hired out of high school than that he didn't attend CalTech and MIT, yet landed a government research job.

 

[haxan7]

I enjoyed the podcast. It got a lot better near the end when Bob Lazar loosened up a bit. That said, I tried watching the Netflix documentary they kept referring to and it was an unwatchable mess.

Yeah. The doc is not good. I made it about 30 mins in with breakfast this morning, will probably finish it just to see more of the original Lazar stuff from the 80s.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Lazar does not speak for you, he speaks for his handlers.
As powerful people are pushed against the ropes for their crimes, they will try distract you with soft-disclosure on extra-terrestrial life.
This is the same role that Tom DeLonge plays. Whatever they reveal may have a hint of truth, but it it isnt even the tippy-top of the iceberg.

Understand, we have already made contact.
We have already traveled further than we've ever been told.
Full disclosure will come.
Where do you think the $21 trillion really went?
Fantasy will become real life, they've been waving it in your face for a long time.
Space Force.

I'm ready Vaselined up from head to tippy toe

 

[Dontero]

Great episode hard not to belive his story if you actually give it a chance tbh.

Any kind of UFO story is completely idiotic.
It simply does not have logic to it when you actually think about it.

Do you talk to cockroaches and try to communicate with them ?
Any civilization that has kind of technology that can reach other star system planet is so far above us that we are literally cockroaches to them.

Secondly the assumption about benevolent aliens makes also no sense. Aliens will be either neutral or negative.
Neutral meaning they wouldn't wish to expand and negative those who want to expand both which would see us as a threat.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Any kind of UFO story is completely idiotic.
It simply does not have logic to it when you actually think about it.

Do you talk to cockroaches and try to communicate with them ?
Any civilization that has kind of technology that can reach other star system planet is so far above us that we are literally cockroaches to them.

Secondly the assumption about benevolent aliens makes also no sense. Aliens will be either neutral or negative.
Neutral meaning they wouldn't wish to expand and negative those who want to expand both which would see us as a threat.

Why are you assuming UFOs have to be alien (extraterrestrial) craft? Bad assumption.

 

[timeflais]

Any kind of UFO story is completely idiotic.
It simply does not have logic to it when you actually think about it.

Do you talk to cockroaches and try to communicate with them ?
Any civilization that has kind of technology that can reach other star system planet is so far above us that we are literally cockroaches to them.

Secondly the assumption about benevolent aliens makes also no sense. Aliens will be either neutral or negative.
Neutral meaning they wouldn't wish to expand and negative those who want to expand both which would see us as a threat.

You have a narrative in your mind distracting you from seeing further, anything in reality is possible. When we consider ourselves as cockroaches we believe we are tied to specific existence. When we are told this by people we seem as trustworthy and respected, we impose ideals within ourselves that any information contradicting this narrative could not possibly exist. But when you consider the nature of reality, the universe in its entirety is beyond what we can see.

Message over messenger. All is one, one is All.

Why are you assuming UFOs have to be alien (extraterrestrial) craft? Bad assumption.

Did you know the US Navy recently declassified a patent that they are currently "constructing"?
Or rather, this has existed since the 80s and has already been built and is old tech.

The US Navy secretly designed a super-fast futuristic aircraft resembling a UFO

Patent reveals plans for a pioneering flying machine capable of travelling at 'extreme speed' through water, air or even space.

metro.co.uk

 

[infinitys_7th]

And yet Defense and security writer Kyle Mizokami and Science journalist Dennis Overbye also put forward the same reasoning as me by pointing out a misunderstanding of the readings and "as modern psychology and neuroscience have established, the senses are an unreliable portal to reality, whatever that is." Without the actual readings, these claims remain eyewitness testament and are therefore subject to the same amount of scrutiny and critique as any other eyewitness testament. This is only aggravated by the fact the only footage released doesn't support their claims despite believers having blind faith it does.

You use your senses to interpret outputs from meters and equipment. That is not being an eyewitness. The idea that nothing anyone says can be ever be trusted has no scientific basis, and the conclusions it leads to are absurd. It is not even testable in a universal context.

The footage is one minute of a much longer interaction - how the hell can it support or debunk anything? It is useless outside of the minute it shows. Your insistence that it means they are lying would be like me filming a car in a driveway before it pulled out and claiming that my video proves it never left and a person that saw it drive away is a liar. Absolutely nonsensical.

(A literal, childish "NO U").

Probably because I get tired of hypocritical skeptics acting like they are the height of rationality and logic, all the while projecting their own flaws onto others. It is "No, you" because you are just projecting. You have your own dogmatic belief structure which is as absurd as Creationism or any other religious dogma - "No one can trust anything, except when I do it!"

Insisting that you are not under the effects of confirmation bias is a tell that you are under the effects of confirmation bias.

"If you claim you are not X, then you are X."

This is an absurd conditional statement, as it is not falsifiable. We rejected it for "racism", so I will reject it for this as well.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Did you know the US Navy recently declassified a patent that they are currently "constructing"?
Or rather, this has existed since the 80s and has already been built and is old tech.

I tend to support the idea that these objects are from a human/hominid civilization that is around 100-200 years ahead of the "first world" countries in terms of technological development. That possibility is not immediately contradictory - we are in that position ourselves when it comes to a variety of countries and civilizations.

 

[timeflais]

I tend to support the idea that these objects are from a human/hominid civilization that is around 100-200 years ahead of the "first world" countries in terms of technological development. It is not immediately contradictory about that possibility - we are in that position ourselves when it comes to a variety of countries and civilizations.

Not impossible.

The recent Alex Jones podcast on JRE has more truth in it than most of whats been spoke about in this thread. 70% truth 30% disinformation.

Message over messenger, there is a struggle between light and dark on our planet, and for the first time in a very long time light is beginning to shine bright. Most people need specific ideals to be realised before their mind has changed, without considering the possibility that maybe that system is intentionally flawed.

Consider that the best lies are half-truths.

 

[TrainedRage]

I love talking about this shit.

Im really starting to think aliens have been an integral part of human history. Like shaping is in subtle ways and doling out tec when its important. Like maybe we are just some sort of alien science project.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I love talking about this shit.

Im really starting to think aliens have been an integral part of human history. Like shaping is in subtle ways and doling out tec when its important. Like maybe we are just some sort of alien science project.

That is the only way I would believe the extraterrestrial hypothesis, and even then it would be a very long shot. If the phenomenon was extraterrestrial, then the most likely way for them to find Earth to interact with us would be for them to have already found and monitored Earth for years. However, there would be far easier ways for that civilization to do an "experiment" than mess with us.

I think that any interaction with extraterrestrials before we develop near light speed or FTL craft will be in the form of random contact with probes or some derelict technology. Sending biological organisms out to explore the galaxy is not logical due to the fragility of biological life. Of course, if you consider the technological singularity any species would have to go through to reach that point, the probes may be a part of the species themselves.

 

[TrainedRage]

That is the only way I would believe the extraterrestrial hypothesis, and even then it would be a very long shot. If the phenomenon was extraterrestrial, then the most likely way for them to find Earth to interact with us would be for them to have already found and monitored Earth for years. However, there would be far easier ways for that civilization to do an "experiment" than mess with us.

I think that any interaction with extraterrestrials before we develop near light speed or FTL craft will be in the form of random contact with probes or some derelict technology. Sending biological organisms out to explore the galaxy is not logical due to the fragility of biological life. Of course, if you consider the technological singularity any species would have to go through to reach that point, the probes may be a part of the species themselves.

How did you feel about the part of the Podcast where they talk about Element 115. Like imagine if humans had the access to an unlimited fuel source from the get go? Where would we be now? And is it so far out of the realm of believability that some other species in some other part of the universe did find and use Element 115 from the early stages of growth and how far would they have come now?

Also them talking about how being technologically advanced doesn't necessarily equate with intelligence. Like we came from using sticks to make fire to where we are now. But other species may have had it much 'easier' so to speak, we are just FAR behind them.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Area 51 exposed

 

[Rentahamster]

"If you claim you are not X, then you are X."

This is an absurd conditional statement, as it is not falsifiable. We rejected it for "racism", so I will reject it for this as well.

Your hallucination of what I actually said is another tell that you might be under the influence of confirmation bias....or that you might not fully understand what it is.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Your hallucination of what I actually said is another tell that you might be under the influence of confirmation bias....or that you might not fully understand what it is.

You literally said that "insisting you are not X is a clear sign of being X". That is tautological and unfalsifiable, and thus is useless at best and irrational at worst.

 

[Rentahamster]

You literally said that "insisting you are not X is a clear sign of being X". That is tautological and unfalsifiable, and thus is useless at best and irrational at worst.

No, I literally said that insisting you are not under the effects of confirmation bias is a TELL that you are. In other words, no one can really be sure 100% that someone is suffering from it. However, there are hints we can use to make an educated guess. That is one of them.

If you know anything about confirmation bias, you should know that people that are under its effects don't even know that they are. That is the nature of confirmation bias, and it is up to others to observe tells in their behavior because the subject won't notice them. That was one tell. Another tell is hallucinating something different than what was said. Which you also just did.

 

[Geki-D]

You use your senses to interpret outputs from meters and equipment. That is not being an eyewitness. The idea that nothing anyone says can be ever be trusted has no scientific basis, and the conclusions it leads to are absurd. It is not even testable in a universal context.

They are eye witnesses to their claims of what the readings say. You've maybe seen The Empire Strikes Back? It's a movie anyone can watch and I'd say millions have. And yet despite people having had the movie in front of their eyes, many remember one of the most famous lines in the movie as "Luke, I am your Father" instead of "No, I am your father". The idea that once someone sees a reading or a report, it's unmistakably burned into their minds forever is utterly laughable. And there's also the idea that they simply misread the reading from the get-go, which leads to...

The footage is one minute of a much longer interaction - how the hell can it support or debunk anything? It is useless outside of the minute it shows. Your insistence that it means they are lying would be like me filming a car in a driveway before it pulled out and claiming that my video proves it never left and a person that saw it drive away is a liar. Absolutely nonsensical.

The footage doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. This is a fact. And yet plenty of "experts" have had the footage in front of them and have utterly failed to notice the zoom so they claim the footage shows the impossible acceleration. Again, a perfect example of having the readings/evidence right in front of you and still being wrong.

Probably because I get tired of hypocritical skeptics acting like they are the height of rationality and logic, all the while projecting their own flaws onto others.

I'm sure it's very frustrating when people just won't blindly believe the same stuff you do.

It is "No, you" because you are just projecting. You have your own dogmatic belief structure which is as absurd as Creationism or any other religious dogma - "No one can trust anything, except when I do it!"

Dude, you're the most dogmatic person here. I mean...

I tend to support the idea that these objects are from a human/hominid civilization that is around 100-200 years ahead of the "first world" countries in terms of technological development.

Are you fucking kidding me? Do they, by chance, live in the hollow Earth? Lizard people, perhaps? Atlantis? Come on, man, be a little self aware here. Your knees are bloody from all the kneeling you do at the altar of The Secret World and your confirmation bias is more than obvious.

The recent Alex Jones podcast on JRE has more truth in it than most of whats been spoke about in this thread.

This is where we're at...

 

[timeflais]

They are eye witnesses to their claims of what the readings say. You've maybe seen The Empire Strikes Back? It's a movie anyone can watch and I'd say millions have. And yet despite people having had the movie in front of their eyes, many remember one of the most famous lines in the movie as "Luke, I am your Father" instead of "No, I am your father". The idea that once someone sees a reading or a report, it's unmistakably burned into their minds forever is utterly laughable. And there's also the idea that they simply misread the reading from the get-go, which leads to...

The footage doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. This is a fact. And yet plenty of "experts" have had the footage in front of them and have utterly failed to notice the zoom so they claim the footage shows the impossible acceleration. Again, a perfect example of having the readings/evidence right in front of you and still being wrong.

Dude, you're the most dogmatic person here. I mean...

Are you fucking kidding me? Do they, by chance, live in the hollow Earth? Lizard people, perhaps? Atlantis? Come on, man, be a little self aware here. Your knees are bloody from all the kneeling you do at the altar of The Secret World and your confirmation bias is more than obvious.

This is where we're at...

Do not mis-understand me, Alex Jones and infowars was always a CIA asset.
The best lies are half truths.
Furthermore, with the succession of Dir Pompeo (now secretary of state) to Dir Gina Haspel, the CIA has been operating more and more witin the light, allowing for disclosure.

 

[Geki-D]

Do not mis-understand me, Alex Jones and infowars was always a CIA asset.
The best lies are half truths.
Furthermore, with the succession of Dir Pompeo (now secretary of state) to Dir Gina Haspel, the CIA has been operating more and more witin the light, allowing for disclosure.

...I mean what am I even meant to reply to this?

 

[timeflais]

...I mean what am I even meant to reply to this?

We mock that which we don't understand.
Why is AJ a CIA considered crazy, depite his dive off the deep in recent times. We forget that in his early days he was given access to a gathering of the worlds most powerful people's most secretive and "crazy" gatherings so that he could "expose" it.
The flow of information, the political stage, it's all a theatrical performance.

 

[Geki-D]

We mock that which we don't understand.
Why is AJ a CIA considered crazy, depite his dive off the deep in recent times. We forget that in his early days he was given access to a gathering of the worlds most powerful people's most secretive and "crazy" gatherings so that he could "expose" it.
The flow of information, the political stage, it's all a theatrical performance.

Proof for any of this nonsense?

Honestly, right now I'm just waiting for the inevitable appeals to "God works in mysterious ways" & "It's just obvious!"

 

[Winter John]

It was a good episode. It wasn't anywhere near as good as his podcast with Annie Jacobsen but it had some interesting stuff in it. The only downside was that other idiot in it. Everytime he opened his dumb mouth I wanted Rogan to tell him to stfu.

 

[dan76]

It was a good episode. It wasn't anywhere near as good as his podcast with Annie Jacobsen but it had some interesting stuff in it. The only downside was that other idiot in it. Everytime he opened his dumb mouth I wanted Rogan to tell him to stfu.

Yep, that guy was useless. He would start making a point and digress to the extreme. Came off as a bit of a nut.
I found this really interesting. Lazar does seem different to the usual types who come up with this shit, but stil, it could all be ...shit.

The most interesting part was where he was talking about the inside of the craft and his reaction to first seeing it. It didn't occur to him at first that it was alien, just some super advanced military experiment because it had Stars and Stripes on it.

I went looking for the old interview with him and in that he talks about someone telling him a story of the aliens helping them, which sounds ridiculous when he also talks about one of the ships being found in a archialogical dig. That's crazy. He also goes into more detail about how it flys, that one of the three "generators" lifts the craft off the ground and the other two point in the direction it wants to go thereby making it fall in that direction.

If his story is made up I think it's one on the most compelling and a brilliant explanation of sightings of ufo's, their weird movement and how they could travel massive distances. I'd like to believe it, but maybe he just worked there and got the sack so made stuff up while he was stoned one night. Who knows. 50/50

 

[timeflais]

Proof for any of this nonsense?

Honestly, right now I'm just waiting for the inevitable appeals to "God works in mysterious ways" & "It's just obvious!"

In this interview, both of them are in on this "expose". Acting in a play. The "elite" allowed AJ to gain footage of their satanic rituals to push AJ as a credible source of "finding the truth" so that in later years (now) he could be used to take the truth and make it hard to believe by surrounding it with a lot of craziness behind the personality and movement.

Whilst you may or may not believe in a creator. Your favourite celebs and highest politicians worship Satan.

 

[Geki-D]

In this interview, both of them are in on this "expose". Acting in a play. The "elite" allowed AJ to gain footage of their satanic rituals to push AJ as a credible source of "finding the truth" so that in later years (now) he could be used to take the truth and make it hard to believe by surrounding it with a lot of craziness behind the personality and movement.

Whilst you may or may not believe in a creator. Your favourite celebs and highest politicians worship Satan.

This is just your interpretation of "Alex Jones Visits Rich People Summer Camp". Where is the proof he's a CIA shill? Leaked papers? Pics of him at some CIA office? Anything?

Also if you're going to go down the road that his apparent infiltration of the silly rich people get-together is actually fake, then rather than assume it's some super 4D chess CIA move to give him credibility years later, is it not more logical to assume it was faked by his production and himself simply to advance his own career?

When I see some obviously fake prank video on Youtube, I assume it's faked for the views. Not because the lizard people want to make use inferior humans looks stupid to justify the purge.