What? So your argument is something you can't even prove?
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- Thread starter cebri.one
- Start date
What? So your argument is something you can't even prove?
It wasn't an argument. I don't particularly care for the current Disney is all. It was an opinion. Would I like to see Nintendo turn into something like the current Disney? No. I don't think any of us would truly want to see that either. Turning Nintendo into Disney would see Nintendo buying up a bunch of studios, cancelling their projects and focusing them all into one IP (say, Donkey Kong). =P
I think their entire argument is quite stupid. They're port begging and two of these guys are just pushing their mobile agenda.
Everyone should ask themselves: "Would I want to see Nintendo turn into Disney?" My answer is "No."
Yeah, this is what missing from the whole "iPhone is going to have a controller now, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!" Just look at the PC market, before the 360 became standard, we have millions of different configurations, and controller setups.
Even when xinput and the 360 controller became standard, we didn't see a wide scale adoption of a controller scheme. Keyboard and mouse still was the standard, even for games with heavy users of controllers like COD, etc.
We also already had controller support for Android since forever but we still see developers for the most part ignore it, and just make shitty touch interfaces and controls even for games that were ported from consoles or handhelds.
Unless Apple is willing to add buttons to the design of the iPhone/iPad itself, just adding controller support to iOS 7 is not a game changer.
nckillthegrimace
Member
So what ever happened to the last company that followed Jason Rubin's advice?
Hey SSX, have you tried out SM3DW yet?
SolidSnakex
Member
Tomorrow.
I've avoided starting some PS4 games so that I can sink a ton of time into 3D World.That old argument, again. Last I checked, emulators aren't allowed in the appstore, and you generally have to jailbreak your phone in order to install emulators. So if you are a person who is willing to jailbreak your iPhone/iPad, then you are likely also a person to pirate shit, and aren't willing to pay for software anyway.
Just think about it, why would anyone, including Nintendo want to target people who would intentionally willing to pirate their games, when they show they are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on hardware already and can afford to pay hundreds more Nintendo produces and refuses to pay for software.
Those customers suck, and is the reason why customers try so hard to defeat piracy, because there's no reason to protect a market if you're just letting money slip though the back door that way.
Tomorrow.
Nice.
TC McQueen
Member
I know PC is niche in Japan, but I'm not sure about globally. But the thing is that Japan has done a fantastic job of transforming itself into a niche product with the moe aesthetic and a lot of their persistent creative choices (at least to mainstream audiences), so putting their games on PC isn't going to hurt it that much, considering how PC has kept some pretty niche genres alive in the west (strategy games, simulators, etc...). It's also a barely tapped market with surprisingly high demand for their product (from what I've heard, anyway). They can make some money and possibly reverse a lot of the negative stereotypes about their games that have built up over the years, but they have to take the risk now and finally learn about PC architecture, before the tech gap widens even more and they relegate themselves to platforms that make them even more irrelevant to western gamers.
Freeman
Banned
What exactly dropped in quality? Pixar? Maybe but their movies are still excellent, even if the latest movies haven't been their best. Marvel is pretty much the same. LucasFilm can't get any worse. The Muppets had a very good movie in 2011.
Sony is already moving in this direction as well, they have a mobile initiative, a PSN store on PC, PSN games sold on Amazon, many games that are developed for PC, even when you hear Kaz speaking about things like the Vita you see he thinks is up to the public to decide where they are going to game, Gaikai can be hardware agnostic, etc. PlayStation is more than just hardware and so is Nintendo.
Imagine if you had to buy a Sony TV to watch a Sony movie, that's just how consoles are today.
Freeman
Banned
Android dominates 81 percent of world smartphone market last I heard. Open platforms will always win in the end. If people are willing to jailbreak their phones to play emulators it goes to show how much the old games are valued.
soulassssns
Banned
But they're not paying for it. Doesn't matter how many people play your game if you are not getting paid for it. The same people who jailbreak their phones and pirate software are the same people responsible for the rise of free to play games and monization schemes.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Guy on the right should really shut up when other people are talking. You can wait your turn and disagree afterwards.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Nintendo's challenge is far greater than a bad quarter.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_pl_e1309.pdf
Code:
In millions of yen
-- 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013
Net sales 1,838,622 1,434,365 1,014,345 647,652 635,422
Operating Income 555,263 356,567 171,076 (37,320) (36,410)Notice a trend? They have had four years of declining revenues and evaporating profits, and FY3/2014 (ends in March) is not going to be favorable, either. Investors have every right to be livid, and to ask questions about how Nintendo is going to return to acceptable and growing levels of revenues and income. Everything should be on the table for consideration.
Everyone complaining about their Nintendo talk needs to put on their business caps on for a minute. Nintendo is setting on a treasure trove of the most valuable gaming IP in the world. Right night if you look at the 3DS or DS/ Wii U they have about 150 million people still buying their games. They could dump their old software library on IOS and expose it to 2.5 BILLION users. The potential for revenue from that far, far outstrips what they are making off their declining hardware business.
Sounds like a good person to have on a panel.
NullPointer
Member
Welp, I got no time for that nonsense.
Its more reasonable than that. They basically say AAA is still going to focus on consoles, but indie and smaller developers are going to continue to focus on other platforms with much larger user bases that are cheaper to develop for. Then they go on a Nintendo tangent about how Nintendo is failing by not realizing they are Disney. Interesting discussion.
Freeman
Banned
How are they going to pay if it is not on sale? As long as Nintendo doesn't price gouge it would sell an absurd amount of games.
It is also unlikely that the people who pirate games are going to buy items for free to play games, so they can't be the ones to blame.
TC McQueen
Member
Of course people are going to pirate stuff when they can't legally get it cheaply and easily. There's a reason why people keep trotting out Gabe Newell's "piracy is a service problem" quote/argument whenever they discuss piracy - it's generally true for the majority of people. If Nintendo puts out great iOS versions of old Gameboy/N64/etc... games at like $5 a game, people will buy them.
Hey, guess what price they are on the wii u, wii, and 3ds for VC games.
PapaJustify
Member
Damn, I constantly wanted punch Jason Rubin in his dumb face. All these stupid comment, interrupting everybody and he is obsessed with his tlablets.
TC McQueen
Member
That's great, but not a lot of people have any of those. You need to hit the mobile/tablet marketplaces to rake in the big bucks and cut down piracy of those games. The available platforms for a game make a huge difference in terms of access and sales.
Freeman
Banned
Super Mario World is $7.99 on the Wii U and you have no guarantees it will work on anything but the WiiU.
Nintendo would need to experiment and find the range that is most profitable in mobile, it might be that a $2,99 range will generate much more money than selling it on WiiU for $7,99 (well its actually guaranteed).
If I can to buy SMW on my TV and play it on my phone or console later it adds value to what they are selling.
hodayathink
Member
Anyone who was halfway paying attention to that situation knew that THQ was too far gone when he got there, and it can be said he almost pulled that one off anyway (if he had been able to get the sale that would have kept them whole instead of having to go through bankruptcy).
Yeah, Rubin came off as a dick, especially to the Louis C.K. lookalike.
Also, I hate how this and Pach Attack split one recording session over multiple weeks. The recordings for both shows were done before either console launch so neither will be able to address recent information, like sales, for at least another two weeks.
SwiftDeath
Member
Man Josh rubin loves himself some mobile gaming
That's great on what you want, but its clear that Nintendo isn't interested on being on mobile any time soon. If you want to come play some great retro games, buy a Nintendo console.
You can say that Nintendo is missing a business opportunity to not being on mobile, but as we already noted, free to play is the dominant format for games, not paying for games up front. So Nintendo would probably have to heavily rework their VC library in order to actually make games people would enjoy with touch controls.
Also, a $2.99 price point is laughable and is playing to the pricing destruction Iwata and Nintendo is seeking to avoid. Putting on my business cap, I would rather try to protect my declining market share at the moment in a maturing market, and try to grow that instead of following the trend and compete in an already saturated gaming market that is iOS and Android.
But I don't think that's actually why anyone buys a new Nintendo console. It's a cool added benefit but I doubt they're moving consoles because of their VC library.
I think if there's any company that could get away with charging 8, 9, 10 or 15 for their retro games on iOS, it's Nintendo. I can't envision a world where the old Mario and Pokemon games wouldn't sell millions even if they were $10+.
I've never been in board with Nintendo third party until they compared them to Disney. That and they also talked very quickly about how exiting any sort of hardware has a negative connotation because typically it has meant failure.
I do believe part of the success of Nintendo as a developer has come down to those first parties having weight on the design of the hardware. I also think Nintendo jumping into third party like a Sega or a big name app dev would not be guaranteed success. They would still need flawless execution.
But I do also think that a Super Mario 3D World on PS4, XBONE and PC, not to mention ESPECIALLY iPad with proper controller support as well, could easily become one of the best selling games of the generation.
I do believe part of the success of Nintendo as a developer has come down to those first parties having weight on the design of the hardware. I also think Nintendo jumping into third party like a Sega or a big name app dev would not be guaranteed success. They would still need flawless execution.
But I do also think that a Super Mario 3D World on PS4, XBONE and PC, not to mention ESPECIALLY iPad with proper controller support as well, could easily become one of the best selling games of the generation.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
What a strange comment by Rubin about developers staying with AAA teams because that's the only way they can fulfill their vision. I don't think the AAA industry is really focused on artistic vision at all right now...
TC McQueen
Member
Congratulations, you've fallen into the trap that has consumed almost every single other Japanese entertainment company in the past decade. Here's a pro-tip: you aren't going to expand an already shrinking market share, because that's a sign that you aren't making things that people want to buy.
Freeman
Banned
Time will tell and the clock is ticking.
Except the one area Nintendo is doing well is their handheld division. Why the hell should Nintendo damage their position with the 3DS to chase a mythical demographic with Android/iPhone users?
You don't see Valve trying to port Steam to iOS/Android, despite the rise of tablets and hybrids. No, they're actually moving in the opposite direction by trying to release a console in the living room.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Their handheld business is also shrinking. Don't think that just because it isn't as troubled as Wii U that investors aren't concerned about 3DS.
Freeman
Banned
3DS is doing worse than the DS and I wouldn't expect the DS U or 4DS to do any better. Not in a world where we have billions of smartphones, tablets and smart TVs.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Nope. People somehow never seem to notice the amount of free press, promotion and evangelism you get for being a 1st party. Every gaming site has Wii U and 3DS tabs at the top. Nobody has an EA tab. Everyone thought Sega would clean up as a third party. Instead, it just took away their shine.
Nintendo gets money for every game third parties make on their systems. They get their hardware to a state where it's profitable. What sane CEO would give that up and put those same dollars in another platform holder's pockets? Guess what, Uncharted 4 and Halo 5 would sell better if they were on everything too. Yet for some reason Sony and Microsoft are in no rush to do so.
Nintendo just came off the best generation anybody's ever had. They're going to throw everything away because of 8 months of bad Wii U sales? Nah.
Shrinking doesn't mean gone. The amount of gas and oil the U.S. is using is also declining, but that doesn't mean oil companies should just throw up their hands and just switch to building wind turbines, and other renewable energies. You still need to produce oil for the current demand, which is what Nintendo is doing.
Here's what I must be missing in this debate, Nintendo isn't the only company with a good VC library. There's Konami, Capcom, Square Enix, Namco, and Activision, EA, etc. with a great backlog of games, can you and or anyone tell me how much money they made on their backlog of games?
I very much doubt the 3DS is doing worse than the 2DS. Unless the 2DS is the Pokemon playing monster it was marketed as. =P
And okay, so at worst, you're saying that Nintendo handhelds become a niche handheld device like it is today. You're telling me that there isn't a demographic for that, despite it already existing today that Nintendo is already exploiting?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Playing franchises on other devices using the Dualshock 4 ... They've NEARLY cracked it. Perhaps one day they'll see the glaringly obvious.
Freeman
Banned
I meant the DS, Nintendo doing a great job at confusing me.
What I mean is let the consumer chose and this works for all other companies as well.
The model of business we have now limits the market size. We need more consumers buying software and less people spending 300$/400$/500$ on a hardware that the companies barely profit.
Smiles and Cries
Member
the Nintendo talk makes me want to puke
googleplex
Member
I think people are missing the point of the Nintendo=Disney analogy. Would Disney be as successful as they are if the only place you could watch Disney Movies were in Disney owned studios? Or the only place you could buy Disney merchandise was a Disney store?.
The Simple fact is Its not worth buying another machine just to play Nintendo games. No Matter how good those games maybe.
The Simple fact is Its not worth buying another machine just to play Nintendo games. No Matter how good those games maybe.
So that's why you can watch ESPN, Disney channel, DX without a subscription to XBox Live, or your cable company....
Oh, wait.
Freeman
Banned
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I think Sony is working towards that.
Its no secret that money is made with content, not with hardware.
Right now we need consoles to have the content. They need to make those boxes to sell their content on them. But I guess in a few years that'll be a thing of the past.
Gaikai will be able to stream Ps1, Ps2, Ps3, Ps4, PSP, PsVita, music, tv series and movies to billions of mobile devices in a few years.
Gaikai App for smartphones and smart TVs.
Playstation controller case for smartphones.
=> All the content available for everyone, wherever and whenever they want.
Right now you need a Screen, a controller and a console. In a few year you'll need a screen, a controller and a fast internet connection.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Except energy companies are diversifying. And even with U.S. consumption declining, world consumption is increasing and energy companies have been reaping those rewards and have been enjoying record or near-record profits year after year.
Nintendo cannot be content with a shrinking market, despite the fact that it hasn't completely disappeared. Here's the thing, put your business or investor cap back on. Let's say you accept that sales this year are going to be lower than last year. And sales next year might be lower still. Necessarily, you are also stating that your profits are going to be less. But you're an investor, and you own Nintendo stock. One of the things you want is your quarterly dividend check. With inflation, dividends are expected to grow. With declining profits, Nintendo cannot afford growth, and further cannot sustain the same level of dividend going forward. If the dividend stagnates or declines, by definition the stock is not worth as much, so shareholder wealth is further diminished. (By extension, the company is not worth as much, and if you play that forward long enough, it becomes easier for another company with perhaps different ideas to acquire that company entirely.) This is not something an investor is going to be expected to accept, and they won't. Change will come to that company, one way or another.
Again, the point is that it is simply not enough for Nintendo to make a profit, or protect a shrinking market. They have to grow. That's their charge, just as it's the charge of any other publicly traded business. And, yes, Sony and Microsoft are under the same pressure, it's just that they have many, many more revenue streams and have a more wiggle room, and they also have a broader vision for what they're trying to accomplish by controlling your television.
Smiles and Cries
Member
the whole Nintendo is denying us the opportunity to worship them idea is bullshit if this was so true the Wii U would have sold no matter what. So the reason is they are not on tablet they are not a TV channel they are not a theme park is some really backhanded bullshit compliment
what they are really saying is Nintendo does not belong in the console market with Microsoft and Sony
And how many cable companies are you able to subscribed to in your area?