family_guy
Member
He probably had the same optimism when he became president at THQ, but look what happened.
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Bonus Round: Xbox's Money War
- Thread starter dmr87
- Start date
He probably had the same optimism when he became president at THQ, but look what happened.
Yusuf Mehdi, Marc Whitten and Phil Spencer.
I don't think MS will get rid of Kinect. The logic is there for them to do it, but just the other day I thought I heard that Apple bought the company that helped with the first Kinect. Most TVs are probably going to move to include something similar built in.
I'm always surprised that no one brings up the true purpose of Kinect in these debates. It's for enhanced datamining and advertising, which is a huge business - even more so if they intend to push this through cable providers in the future.
I don't know if these guys would rather keep that conversation out of the public, or if they're just that unaware of it.
I'm always surprised that no one brings up the true purpose of Kinect in these debates. It's for enhanced datamining and advertising, which is a huge business - even more so if they intend to push this through cable providers in the future.
I don't know if these guys would rather keep that conversation out of the public, or if they're just that unaware of it.
Obviously he is a changed man since his humble days at Naughty Dog. Definitely not a hero in the context of those things. I noticed in the video how he used the cliche "it was the messaging" excuse.
That was a great bonus round. Only downer was the cable subsidy talk yet again. I still don't get that - Xbox doesn't even control a DVR, and I don't see the cable companies providing subsidies of anywhere near the mount needed to make a meaningful difference to the price
The talk of a price cut was a little simplistic though. Sure, the intent is to make that money back from people buying software, but there is a limit to how many more units you sell if you cut the price. Otherwise why not just give the damn thing away?
Seamus was a little too eager to push f2P but I agree with his comments about MS not wanting to give up that service income. It must be difficult for a big company to give up regular income on the hope hat you'll get more back in sales by increasing your active userbase.
Personally I would like them to drop the paywall entirely, but at a minimum drop it for media.
The talk of a price cut was a little simplistic though. Sure, the intent is to make that money back from people buying software, but there is a limit to how many more units you sell if you cut the price. Otherwise why not just give the damn thing away?
Seamus was a little too eager to push f2P but I agree with his comments about MS not wanting to give up that service income. It must be difficult for a big company to give up regular income on the hope hat you'll get more back in sales by increasing your active userbase.
Personally I would like them to drop the paywall entirely, but at a minimum drop it for media.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
And the problem with this idea of cable providers offering a Xbone with their service is that it will only apply to new subscribers. Cable providers gain nothing by subsidizing services to existing customers, in fact those companies instead charge more to existing customers through expiring promotions.
So if, big IF, such a thing were to be offered through cable providers the customer would not only have to factor in the subsidized cost of an Xbone (say half off), but also the monthly cost of cable services. Suddenly the pool of people that will take advantage of such a deal shrinks dramatically.
I for one don't want to pay an extra $50 a month for 2 years just to save $250 on a Xbone. I don't suck at math that much.
walltowall
Member
weekend_warrior
Banned
Another good video. I think they're over estimating how easy it will be for MS to cut the price or jetison kinect though. Investors are not happy with the xbox division, writing another $800 million dollar check to it again will not go over well.
Xbox is such a minor element of Microsoft that if it completely failed it would barely register on the stock market.
I must say the subsidising with cable providers idea is a good one in theory. Make the XBone as ubiquitous an experience as the iOS is then BAM. You've got content being purchased left and right like how it is for Apple, a living room equivalent of the smartphone revolution.
Felt weird saying that as a Sony fanboy lol.
Felt weird saying that as a Sony fanboy lol.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Uhh, no shit? The sell through numbers were revealed this morning....
Fried Food
Banned
Seamus layin down the truth bombs
Ballmer was fired for the fact he reacted years late and made terrible decisions on consumer products (which surface along with windows phone falls in line with). Surface was the tipping point of years of fucking that sector up. What I'm saying is majority shareholders (not just the 5 percent and elop) might be ready to take some losses again on the xbox division since it's the "moderate success" of the sector.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Yes, if anything this will be reflected on the chance of the division being sold.
Acquiescence
Member
Yeah, I know. I'm just saying, the tone of discussion in this vid would be completely different if it was filmed after that news became public.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, Blackley had a lot of good things to say, he's a good guest on Bonus Round.
They all are really, but I like getting Blackley's insight and perspective.
They all are really, but I like getting Blackley's insight and perspective.
TatteredHat
Member
I am now eagerly awaiting the next Bonus Round on this topic.
walltowall
Member
I think that the lack of DVR functions will become less of an issue over time. As more programming goes OnDemand the DVR will become a relic. In NY, Cablevision moved to storing your DVR content on its servers, Comcast is moving to do the same with X1 and X2. It's easier for the cable company because it's less equipment to maintain and less truck rolls equal less costs. It's better for the customer because they are not tied to a single machine. What the cable companies want is that "pay per view/rental" money if they can get a split from MS or Sony it may be here sooner than later.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Pachter: Get Kinect the duck out of the box!!!
Rubin: Keep Kinect and eat the $100. Losses will turn into gains
Pachter: Exactly!! Keeping the price down will increase sales and negate the eating of the Kinect money.
Flip flop flip flop.
So then whhhhhy the hell do you keep sucking up and spitting out the tired narrative of getting Kinect out of the box Pachter?
You also state that people wouldn't mind the extras, so why the fuck don't you campaign for them to actually GET those extras with price drop, instead of simply campaigning for a cheaper initial box that requires another investment to get those extras?
The demos MS have been showing in terms of UI and Kinect integration HAVE been impressing people, even if they weren't planning to purchase.
Why actively campaign to weaken the base experience of the console?
Only to then admit that a price drop would actually be quite a good thing instead less than ten minutes later?
Rubin: Keep Kinect and eat the $100. Losses will turn into gains
Pachter: Exactly!! Keeping the price down will increase sales and negate the eating of the Kinect money.
Flip flop flip flop.
So then whhhhhy the hell do you keep sucking up and spitting out the tired narrative of getting Kinect out of the box Pachter?
You also state that people wouldn't mind the extras, so why the fuck don't you campaign for them to actually GET those extras with price drop, instead of simply campaigning for a cheaper initial box that requires another investment to get those extras?
The demos MS have been showing in terms of UI and Kinect integration HAVE been impressing people, even if they weren't planning to purchase.
Why actively campaign to weaken the base experience of the console?
Only to then admit that a price drop would actually be quite a good thing instead less than ten minutes later?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
It would probably sound similar only maybe saying they have to cut price harder. It's not like much will change though until we see how the first week of xbox one sells. They could both have amazing opening weeks. An amazing PS4 launch doesn't dictate a terrible Xbox launch.
Marauder Shields
Member
Xbone has Titanfall. It will be fine.
its on PC too!!!!!!
Mushroomer25
Member
Certainly the most rational discussion I've seen Patcher give in awhile, F-bombs or not. The point is simple - the $100 difference is going to hurt Microsoft, and that camera is looking like more of a liability every day. While Microsoft's faith in such new technology is noble, they've failed to justify why the consumer needs to pay extra for it. At this point, it might just be in their best interest to slash the price or offer another incentive (The 1 year of Live deal made a lot of sense to me), take the financial hit, and move on.
Marauder Shields
Member
As if casual gamers are gonna play it on PC.
Good discussion, I think they all made solid points. Whilst I felt Rubin was too apologetic towards Microsoft in the E3 discussion vid, I don't think he is here. The Xbox One is off to a terrible start, but Microsoft has deep pockets, and as discussed in the vid, there's several things they could do to claw back, such as dropping the price, Kinect pack in, buying more third party tent pole exclusives etc. The PS4 has come out swinging and taken the lead, and Microsoft may never be able to get back in the fight as a real contender, but it's certainly too early to call that yet.
It's not that hard to understand. The xb1 needs to be cheaper period. If MS needs to take out the Kinect, so be it. However just lowering the price and keeping the kinect in, would nice as well.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
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Mushroomer25
Member
Sssh. PC doesn't matter. That is a platform for madmen and deviants. (Until the Steambox comes in. Then Microsoft's going to lose a lot of their "exclusives").
But he's right, people are too eager to count Xbox out before it's even released, the game is far from over. No one really remembers the debates going on at the beginning of the last console cycle, it all came down to who adapted quicker, had better games, better online service, and a good price. In two years the PS4 and Xbone will probably be at the same price point thus Sony has to keep adapting to convince consumers it is the best console for your money. If M$ is able to truly innovate and bring cable television to their console then that could shake things up.
Garrett 2U
Member
GoofsterStud
Member
Maybe you haven't been caught up on the business side of things. Stockholders are being promised profit and better sales on day one. Even so many are actively pushing Microsoft to get rid of the division and focus on serviced.
Way to generalise.
Well i agree with them that the 100 buck price difference is going to hurt the Xbox and Microsoft needs to drop the kinect. We shall see if they do I would like to imagine that if dropping the kinect was so easy they would of done it before the console launches. Though I think the kinect will be dropped rather then their suggestion that Micosoft just drop the price and eat the cost. Even though Microsoft could afford it from the sounds of things it sounds like the stockholders would not exactly be thrilled with the Xbox division just eating another 300-800 million(using the numbers from the video) on top of what the Xbox One has already cost.
Since I have no skin in the game it will be interesting to see how Microsoft handles this.
Since I have no skin in the game it will be interesting to see how Microsoft handles this.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
As far as im concerned, after backhand tactics rubin tried to pull with THQ, id take anything he says with a pinch of salt. Honestly it would surprise me if he wasn't dusting off his CV.
The longer they take to react, the less impact whatever they do will have.
If they wait for holiday 2014, it will be too late to stop the PS4s momentum. PS4 will be lead the market just like the 360 did.
Sony may even be able to cut their price by then as well.
There are actually people still pushing the cable subsidy idea even now? Amazing.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
There's a product for them, it's called the 360.
I agree. Price drop and Kinect'less SKU with TitanFall would be potent, any later and they will lose further traction and momentum. If they wait till Holiday 2014, they'll have lost a tonne of momentum and will struggle to claw back, and any later than 2014 and it's basically game over imo. At least with the current price (and also much less important, performance) difference.
Yeah, I agree. They will play it on the 360. Titanfall will help Xbox One though but the effect of that will be interesting to watch.