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[autoduelist]

No but when you put it in context of heading to a mass populated event you can easily see intent, and then you have that facebook post, it's not a good starting ground for a defense.

Oh, I agree the post is absolutely questionable. But I also know people use phrases like 'kill' ("i'm gonna kill you") jokingly all the time. I'm not saying they are innocent, I am simply saying the rush to judgement on preliminary news reports that not only are incomplete, but often get facts wrong, isn't wise either.

Waiting for more info on things like this is always a good idea.

 

[partyphone]

yes because this is a 'terrorist threat'

ive seen it all

it is literally a terroristic threat by most legal definitions.

but they're white people so they're not likely to be prosecuted for it.

 

[k4n3]

it is literally a terroristic threat by most legal definitions.

but they're white people so they're not likely to be prosecuted for it.

if they were middle eastern they would of never even made it to the event, the FBI would of raided right after the facebook post

 

[Sonicbug]

It should be mentioned that the Hynes Convention Center is on the same street and mere blocks from the Boston Marathon finish line.

These idiots are either plain stupid or dangerously stupid. The BPD doesn't fuck around with percieved threats like these.

 

[BocoDragon]

I think the title doesn't help. "Stops plot to attack" implies a particular narrative that isn't necessarily confirmed by the known facts (yet?), and so lots of people are arguing that nuance.

If it were "asshats arrested for making threats and bringing guns to a Pokemon tournament" I think we could all agree.

 

[autoduelist]

I'm sorry this is bullshit. Gun culture is bullshit.

"HEY WE'RE DRIVING ACROSS STATE LINES TO GO TO A BIG EVENT AND WE HAVE GUNS AND AMMO" is not ambiguous.

yes. they're fucking stupid idiots. but don't pretend it's outsiders misinterpreting gun culture.

again. fuck gun culture. they're tools designed to kill people. they are not fucking toys.

Who said they are toys? Who said anything of the sort? Your capitalized sentence is pure conjecture. The fact is, some people keep guns in their vehicles. That is not evidence of a darn thing in and of itself, but some people with anti-gun agendas act as if it proves intent. That's absurd.

Anyway, I'm out. It's clear some of you have your minds made up and there's no real point in conversation at that point.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I hope they go to jail for this bullshit

 

[Costia]

You think people on neogaf having a zero tolerance stance towards terrorist threats is scarier than two guys showing up to a tournament full of people with guns and a ton of ammo in their trunk.

I have seen it all.

You are proving his point. You already decided that they are terrorists while the actual evidence so far is inconclusive.
Let the police do their work and actually investigate the case before you decide they are guilty of terrorism threats.
Because the way I see it you (and a few others here) are basically calling for a life sentence for 2 people who might be just extremely stupid rather than malicious, before any investigation took place.
It's great that they were arrested, and they are guilty of illegal firearms possession. But at least wait until more details come up before you label them as terrorists.

 

[ExVicis]

No matter if they were just really stupid or actually planning on doing something. I'm glad they got arrested. Seem like a better outcome than there being a chance of something happening.

As for the conviction. One should hope the police do their job and the guys get whatever punishment they deserve.

Still, I'll never truly understand american gun culture and laws. Looking at this thread it's just weird to me that the talk is centered on whether crossing the state line with the guns or owning a specific magazine type is legal or not. It's crazy that, from what I get reading this thread, showing up at a public event with a shotgun and an assault rifle with plenty of ammo after leaving weird comments on social media is legal.

It's not actually. It's called reasonable suspicion. The police were perfectly within the law to detain them for all the comments and pictures on facebook with the idea that they might commit a crime.

Had the police learned about the guns and ammunition a different way the same thing would have occurred all the same. The people arguing that if they had said nothing on facebook and just took the guns are talking out of their ass.

 

[Mutagenic]

Really glad they got caught. You don't 'joke' about that shit.

 

[sn00zer]

The organizing of psychopaths in small internet communities is starting to bubble over. Scary time we are living in.

EDIT: Hope they throw these guys in a dark hole to rot.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

So if I take a picture of some guns and ammo and say I am heading over to your house right now....you won't take that as a threat?

If it's plausible that you're a gun enthusiast, occam's razor overwhelmingly points in the direction of you wanting to show me the cool new shit you bought.

Probably depends on if someone is carrying a small arsenal with a lot of ammo and illegal modifications that increase a magazine capacity without permits If someone has a handgun and they are legally allowed to carry i wouldnt see them as a threat. The former though? Thats grounds for suspicion though and an investigation at minimum. Lets not pretend all situations of carrying a gun are equal though.

Perhaps much of the (illusory) disagreement comes from what, precisely, we want to see done. I agree that it's suspicious, and I think the police should investigate. I just don't think there's enough proof there if the investigation doesn't turn up anything to indicate they were planning to murder people.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Jeez, I think it's time that the US got over their obsession with guns and their outdated Second Amendment and join the rest of the world in 2015.

I dont understand this, the state they were in already has a gun law they broke, what more, on the law side, do you want be done?

 

[Zomba13]

Unless you have a source of information other than in the OP, there is no indication of when said pictures were posted. There's really not much information at all.

The picture was posted 19 August at 15:29 (according to the facebook page). It shows the guns (same ones taken into evidence) on the back of the car.

Who said they are toys? Who said anything of the sort? Your capitalized sentence is pure conjecture. The fact is, some people keep guns in their vehicles. That is not evidence of a darn thing in and of itself, but some people with anti-gun agendas act as if it proves intent. That's absurd.

Anyway, I'm out. It's clear some of you have your minds made up and there's no real point in conversation at that point.

I dunno. If they did have the same car as in the picture then it is implied that they did drive across multiple state lines with guns and ammo in their car and did go to a big event. Hardly conjecture.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

Jeez, I think it's time that the US got over their obsession with guns and their outdated Second Amendment and join the rest of the world in 2015.

Amen, brother.

 

[tim.mbp]

Hunting? Is Boston known for hunting? These guys are from Iowa which I'm fairly certain has Quail hunting and if it doesn't Nebraska right next door I know for a fact has good Quail hunting. Why would you drive all the way to Boston for a tournament and attempt to enter it if you're actually there to go hunting and there's better hunting on your doorstep? So it can't be hunting.

MA has hunting, even quail, but you need to be licensed and I don't think there are any hunting seasons during the summer months.

 

[Docflem]

Here's the thing, people are trying to equate this to "gun culture," but it's not. Anyone who is even a mildly intelligent gun enthusiast would never A. buy guns illegally B. make posts that look like the ones this horrible people did and C. transport these weapons through numerous states (many of which probably have laws against this sort of thing) and show up to a convention they just made threats too. I get that people outside of the US, and people that are very anti-gun don't understand the idea of caring a weapon with you, but please don't equate what these people did with "gun culture," what they did was a crime from the moment they obtained these weapons.

 

[Cleve]

Gun Culture? I live in a Conceal-Carry state and have multiple gun-enthusiast friends. I will say they do have guns in their car, but they're handguns. They don't drive around with ARs and shit while they go do errands or drive up north to visit family. The only time they take bigger weapons around is to go shoot them off at a range which is NEARBY. S.

This is a pretty good point. No one puts a shotgun, an ar, and a ton of ammo in their trunk and drives around with it, let alone cross country. A handgun in a secure box is one thing. If my friends or I knew someone that drove around with that shit in their car at all times, and wasn't at the range every day, we'd think they were fucking nuts.

People from outside the US trying to paint this as "normal" have a pretty skewed view of your typical gun owner.

 

[TC McQueen]

A handgun maybe, but no normal gun owner keeps AR-15's or pump action shotguns in their car, let alone bring them across country to a card game tournament.

That's irresponsible, dangerous and stupid, which fits the profile of these kids.

Actually, if you're living in rural areas, that's actually somewhat common. The phrase "truck gun" exists because a lot of people do keep a shotgun or rifle in their truck or on the back window.

Here's some more info on that:
http://guntoters.com/blog/2014/06/22/truck-guns/

Here's the thing, people are trying to equate this to "gun culture," but it's not. Anyone who is even a mildly intelligent gun enthusiast would never A. buy guns illegally

Based on Iowa's gun laws, they probably got the guns legally. Everything else is pretty valid though.

This is a pretty good point. No one puts a shotgun, an ar, and a ton of ammo in their trunk and drives around with it, let alone cross country. A handgun in a secure box is one thing. If my friends or I knew someone that drove around with that shit in their car at all times, and wasn't at the range every day, we'd think they were fucking nuts.

People from outside the US trying to paint this as "normal" have a pretty skewed view of your typical gun owner.

Three gun competition shooters probably do it all the time, since it's probably easier than trying to bring long guns and tons of ammo through airports. People going to big gun shooting events like Knob Creek probably do it too.

 

[Petrae]

I realize some of you have already made up your minds, but consider for a second they are just two stupid, innocent kids that would never cause harm in a million years... but got scooped up in a combination of their own stupidity and misinterpretation. On the chance this is the case, I hope they are tried fairly and there isn't a rush to judgement.

Sorry, but these aren't kids. They're legal adults. I don't buy the young and innocent/ignorant defense. You're packing two guns and significant ammo and bringing that stuff to a place where a major terrorist incident happened just two years ago? At best, that's a criminal lack of good judgment. At worst, it could have been a bloody outcome had BPD not followed up on the potential threat.

Either way, they'll get their day(s) in court. Regardless of whether I believe that these men are criminals or not, it's up to due process to do its thing.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

yes because this is a 'terrorist threat' the fact that you think it is shows how knee jerk people are acting in this thread

You do realize that terrorists aren't just people in the middle east with AK47's right? There are domestic terrorists and you clearly don't even know the definition of the word.

Although the exact definition varies from state to state, generally one makes a terrorist threat if one threatens to commit a violent crime for the purpose of terrorizing another or of causing public panic. Some states laws are very narrow, meaning the threat must be very specific and direct, while other states adapt a looser approach, allowing even negligently made threats to be prosecutable.

Heck, here is a story from 2013 of some high school kid in Massachusetts who got on Facebook making threats to kill people and blow shit up in Boston in a rap song. This kid was put in jail on a 1 million dollar bond and charged with a felony. He was ultimately found innocent but he still went to trial and spent one month in jail. These idiots from Iowa that we're dealing with actually brought unregistered weapons with them after making the threats.

It's kind of disturbing that you think people are having a knee jerk reaction to a potential mass murder.

You are proving his point. You already decided that they are terrorists while the actual evidence so far is inconclusive.
Let the police do their work and actually investigate the case before you decide they are guilty of terrorism threats.
Because the way I see it you (and a few others here) are basically calling for a life sentence for 2 people who might be just extremely stupid rather than malicious, before any investigation took place.
It's great that they were arrested, and they are guilty of illegal firearms possession. But at least wait until more details come up before you label them as terrorists.

Proving his point? No.

Did I say they are terrorists, which would imply they carried out the attack, or that these two made a terrorist threat? Did I call for them to be locked up immediately or did I say the courts will determine that?

 

[BocoDragon]

Here's the thing, people are trying to equate this to "gun culture," but it's not. Anyone who is even a mildly intelligent gun enthusiast would never A. buy guns illegally B. make posts that look like the ones this horrible people did and C. transport these weapons through numerous states (many of which probably have laws against this sort of thing) and show up to a convention they just made threats too. I get that people outside of the US, and people that are very anti-gun don't understand the idea of caring a weapon with you, but please don't equate what these people did with "gun culture," what they did was a crime from the moment they obtained these weapons.

When people say "gun culture", they aren't necessarily talking about positive gun enthusiasts. It's talking about a larger culture of gun acceptance/proliferation which leads to things both good and bad. It's akin to "rape culture".

It wouldn't go down like this in many other countries because they do not have the "gun culture" that exists in the U.S. For that reason, I think it's accurate to say gun culture fed into this. That doesn't mean people think they're normal gun show goers or whatever.

 

[louiedog]

I realize some of you have already made up your minds, but consider for a second they are just two stupid, innocent kids that would never cause harm in a million years... but got scooped up in a combination of their own stupidity and misinterpretation. On the chance this is the case, I hope they are tried fairly and there isn't a rush to judgement.

One of them is 27.

I think it's most likely they're just dumb and had no intention of attacking the tournament, but at 27, barring any sort of development issue, that guy is too old to play the dumb, innocent kid card.

 

[Catchpenny]

At the very least, they did an exceptionally stupid thing, in a city that is absolutely going to take any threat seriously and prosecute to the max.

They don't seem especially bright, so if there was a plot, I'm sure they've left communications that law enforcement can find.

If they are just two dumbasses that like guns and stupid jokes, they are still going to do jail time. Can you imagine going to jail and having the other prisoners find out you're in there for bringing guns to a Pokemon event?

 

[Lucreto]

At the very least they should be convicted with carrying guns across state lines without a permit but a full detailed investigation needs to be held.

Get a federal agency involved and get phone records, Internet searches ect and they find nothing but idiots get them on one count for the guns.

If anything they will learn their lesson.

It's Boston as well. After the bombings I am sure the police are on the lookout for any other incidents. It would not look good with a bombing and a Mass shooting happening in a short space of time.

 

[Zomba13]

Here's the thing, people are trying to equate this to "gun culture," but it's not. Anyone who is even a mildly intelligent gun enthusiast would never A. buy guns illegally B. make posts that look like the ones this horrible people did and C. transport these weapons through numerous states (many of which probably have laws against this sort of thing) and show up to a convention they just made threats too. I get that people outside of the US, and people that are very anti-gun don't understand the idea of caring a weapon with you, but please don't equate what these people did with "gun culture," what they did was a crime from the moment they obtained these weapons.

That's the thing though. People like this are part of gun culture in the US. Whether you are a smart and reasonable gun owner who keeps their guns locked in safes when not in use with the ammo stored separately and follows proper gun procedure or you're the type of idiot who poses with his guns, keeps them loaded and takes pictures of them on your car and then take them to an event filled with children you are both gun owners in the USA.

It's the whole "no true Scotsman" thing. "Oh, those people aren't real gun enthusiasts.". While I'm not American and the biggest thing I have to worry about is a random hooded teenager with a small knife I don't really have an issue with guns if the owners treat them properly and safely but there are so many that don't and there are places where literally anyone can buy a gun with no checks or paperwork and I think that is bullshit when you are dealing with an object designed specifically to kill things in the most efficient way possible.

 

[Docflem]

Actually, if you're living in rural areas, that's actually somewhat common. The phrase "truck gun" exists because a lot of people do keep a shotgun or rifle in their truck or on the back window.

Here's some more info on that:
http://guntoters.com/blog/2014/06/22/truck-guns/


Based on Iowa's gun laws, they probably got the guns legally. Everything else is pretty valid though.

The initial reports say they do not have licenses for the guns, hence me calling them illegal weapons. Also truck guns (usually shotguns or hunting rifles) aren't usually loaded with enough ammo to kill dozens of people. I mean the article you linked outlines very safe procedures on how to own and operate a truck gun (though I do think keeping a long rifle or shotgun, a hand gun would be a more efficient choice).

That's the thing though. People like this are part of gun culture in the US. Whether you are a smart and reasonable gun owner who keeps their guns locked in safes when not in use with the ammo stored separately and follows proper gun procedure or you're the type of idiot who poses with his guns, keeps them loaded and takes pictures of them on your car and then take them to an event filled with children you are both gun owners in the USA.

It's the whole "no true Scotsman" thing. "Oh, those people aren't real gun enthusiasts.". While I'm not American and the biggest thing I have to worry about is a random hooded teenager with a small knife I don't really have an issue with guns if the owners treat them properly and safely but there are so many that don't and there are places where literally anyone can buy a gun with no checks or paperwork and I think that is bullshit when you are dealing with an object designed specifically to kill things in the most efficient way possible.

No I do agree with what your saying, all I'm trying to do is make sure my very diverse country isn't painted with broad strokes. I'm a soldier, gun enthusiast, and I carry a handgun with me often, but I advocate stronger background checks and I'd love to see some kind of mental health evaluation implemented too.

 

[NoPiece]

Being an idiot shouldn't give somebody amnesty from prison. At the minimum, they broke a (non-frivolous, in my opinion) law and should face the consequences.

But there's no excuse for joking about killing people at a convention, and then bringing weapons that could kill a bunch of people to that convention; even idiocy.

If we find out they more literally were joking about it, I agree with you. But that statement I saw could be interpreted as killing opponents in game, so I want to know if it was a joke (more guilty), or a misunderstanding (guilty of gun possession in MA, but not terroristic threats).

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Meanwhile, on a gun enthusiast forum...

if they were middle eastern they would of never even made it to the event, the FBI would of raided right after the facebook post

Or, given the number of successful terrorist strikes where there's a e-trail a mile long on jihadist websites, just as often not.

 

[blankempathy]

If it's plausible that you're a gun enthusiast, occam's razor overwhelmingly points in the direction of you wanting to show me the cool new shit you bought.



Perhaps much of the disagreement comes from what, precisely, we want to see done. I agree that it's suspicious, and I think the police should investigate. I just don't think there's enough proof there if the investigation doesn't turn up anything to indicate they were planning to murder people.

Of course some people are going to see it as black and white. I'm just saying that your reasonable doubt arguement with the evidence so far ultimately is that they didnt actually shoot anyone. They announced where they were headed with guns in tow. Got caught outside of place with said guns. So im not sure why your making a reasonable doubt arguement without more evidence yourself. So far you are just asumming that they may just be really stupid and or maybe the guns were for show/hunting. Right now to me they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar without actually taking the cookie. Maybe they didnt get a chance to or maybe it was for show and stupidity. We dont know yet.

 

[PBalfredo]

If it's plausible that you're a gun enthusiast, occam's razor overwhelmingly points in the direction of you wanting to show me the cool new shit you bought.

So... you think they took a picture of the weapons they were bringing to Worlds, because they wanted to show off their cool guns to the participents of a Pokemon convention?

I don't think you know how Occam's Razor actually works.

 

[TC McQueen]

there are places where literally anyone can buy a gun with no checks or paperwork and I think that is bullshit when you are dealing with an object designed specifically to kill things in the most efficient way possible.

Everyone gets an National Instant Criminal System check when they buy a gun from a store or auction house, which is usually done by the store that you're picking the gun up from, because they have a Federal Firearms License, and that always involves filling out a form with your personal info. The only way to get a gun shipped directly to you is to get a Curio and Relic FFL or be a gun shop owner.

That said, personal sales aren't covered by NICS, but that's mostly because the FBI is too cheap/fucking stupid to make an app that search that database, although you have to force some states to feed some more records into the system (mental health stuff, mostly).

The initial reports say they do not have licenses for the guns, hence me calling them illegal weapons. Also truck guns (usually shotguns or hunting rifles) aren't usually loaded with enough ammo to kill dozens of people. I mean the article you linked outlines very safe procedures on how to own and operate a truck gun (though I do think keeping a long rifle or shotgun, a hand gun would be a more efficient choice).

They don't have licenses because they didn't need them in their home state, which is part of the reason they're morons for bringing them to Boston, even if they weren't going to shoot people.

The reason why rifles and shotguns tend to be truck guns may have to do with the fact that handguns tend to be more heavily regulated, or the fact that when you're in rural areas, you're probably going to be running into animals and want the higher firepower.

 

[TheVampire]

Makes you wonder why Team Rocket in the anime doesn't use guns to rob Ash.

A bullet shot from a gun is quicker then Ash telling pikachu to use lightning.

 

[Docflem]

So... you think they took a picture of the weapons they were bringing to Worlds, because they wanted to show off their cool guns to the participents of a Pokemon convention?

Here's the thing, it's not even the possession of the weapons that makes them guilty, it's the shear volume of ammo they had. Hell when I go out shooting I barely take anymore ammo then they had, and that's if I'm going to be at it for hours.

 

[NotGivingMyNameToADamnCom]

Pardon me for being concerned about the conviction of two (in my opinion) innocent people.

"Both men are charged with unlawful possession of a firearm, unlawful possession of ammunition and other firearm related offenses."

So you think the police are lying and they actually had licenses?

 

[User1608]

I am so happy nobody got hurt or killed. Jesus Christ, wtf is wrong with these guys?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

These guys are the physical embodiment of 4chan.

"We're going to actually murder you and here are the weapons we will use to murder you."
"wtf, I'm calling the police."
"Hey I was just kidding!"

 

[CrunchyFrog]

People in this thread are really confused about what occam's razor is.

The principle states that among competing hypotheses that predict equally well, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

It's not just selecting the most benign outcome, it's the one in which we infer as little missing information as possible and stick to what we are given.

 

[Zynx]

Social media really makes dumb criminals or would-be criminals easier to catch.

 

[Docflem]

Everyone gets an National Instant Criminal System check when they buy a gun from a store or auction house, which is usually done by the store that you're picking the gun up from, because they have a Federal Firearms License, and that always involves filling out a form with your personal info. The only way to get a gun shipped directly to you is to get a Curio and Relic FFL or be a gun shop owner.

That said, personal sales aren't covered by NICS, but that's mostly because the FBI is too cheap/fucking stupid to make an app that search that database, although you have to force some states to feed some more records into the system (mental health stuff, mostly).


They don't have licenses because they didn't need them in their home state, which is part of the reason they're morons for bringing them to Boston, even if they weren't going to shoot people.

The reason why rifles and shotguns tend to be truck guns may have to do with the fact that handguns tend to be more heavily regulated, or the fact that when you're in rural areas, you're probably going to be running into animals and want the higher firepower.

If i'm not mistaken, the background check you just talked about is often referred to as a "license" in states where a specific license is not needed.

Edit: Also, people play up the necessity of a high powered rifle round when in close quarters with an animal. A .44 would kill most animals fairly easily and with some training you'd be more likely to hit them also.

 

[Jiguryo]

I know, different spheres, but if authorities can investigate the folks that posted death threats to Obama via Twitter back in 2010, getting a leap on guys who are carrying unlicensed guns and posting this kind of shit on social media is the least we can expect.

I am truly baffled that some people can still perceive these two guys as "innocent". Come on...

 

[Scipio]

Holy shit I'm super paranoid about this kind of stuff. That something like this might not only happen but also during a live stream is horrifying. I don't want to see anyone die on a stream again.

Uhm... :0

 

[Brazil]

This thread is so fucking weird.

Kids threaten to kill people with guns at an event, bring the guns to the aforementioned event, and yet they're "innocent".

Being white really is great huh

 

[Tom Nook]

Filthy human beings, glad they were caught.

That would've been a disaster.

 

[fred]

jeeeze why target that of all things?

Nerd Rage. There are no limits to Nerd Rage. They probably lost a game at some point in the past that they felt they shouldn't have done.

Either that or they're just nutjobs. Or a bit of both.

Good work by the security staff and police though, they've prevented a huge tragedy there. Are there usually loads of kids at these things or is it mostly adults..? I don't know a great deal about Pokemon tbh.

 

[blankempathy]

I know, different spheres, but if authorities can investigate the folks that posted death threats to Obama via Twitter back in 2010, getting a leap on guys who are carrying unlicensed guns and posting this kind of shit on social media is the least we can expect.

I am truly baffled that some people can still perceive these two guys as "innocent". Come on...

I believe in innocent until proven guilty. At the same time im not naive either. I hope the fbi goes through every inch of their personal communications email texts property etc to find out what these numbskulls intentions were.

 

[redhood56]

So glad that they are caught before anything happened.

 

[TC McQueen]

If i'm not mistaken, the background check you just talked about is often referred to as a "license" in states where a specific license is not needed.

If it is, that is the most retarded thing I've ever heard, because you get a carbon copy of it attached to your receipt. You're not going to carry that on you 24/7 like a driver's license, military ID, or concealed carry permit.

 

[Machina]

Hoooly damn, the gaming community just dodged a massive bullet....Orrr many. Depending on how you look at it.

 

[Docflem]

If it is, that is the most retarded thing I've ever heard, because you get a carbon copy of it attached to your receipt. You're not going to carry that on you 24/7 like a driver's license, military ID, or concealed carry permit.

It's not that you have to carry it, but like you said it is something that a police officer could search for in their database and find out if you obtained the weapon legally. It doesn't cover states that allow you to avoid the check by buying privately but that's just a dumb loop hole in my opinion.