Louis Cyphre
Banned
Some are but it is an issue nonetheless. What's satisfying to me is watching those who have the ability to update it be the most opposed.
It can be bad but it's not that bad. Obviously some people heal faster than others.
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Brand new Xbox One will not even boot if you dont have internet connection
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Some are but it is an issue nonetheless. What's satisfying to me is watching those who have the ability to update it be the most opposed.
It can be bad but it's not that bad. Obviously some people heal faster than others.
Since when did buying a luxury item have anything at all to do with force?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Yeah I really don't get the issue, Basically a company planned out it's product roadmap poorly and now needs a major day one patch to sort out significant product issues. This isn't really a company actively trying to screw you over through this. Is it sad and unfortunate sure may it dissuade from people from buying it sure but this isn't exactly something you should get outraged at unless this whole situation was purpose.
It's basically a shit happens you move on sorta deal.
It's basically a shit happens you move on sorta deal.
Waylon Drums
Member
There's something so satisfying about seeing an ignorant comment and immediately finding out that person has been banned. Instant gratification and all that.
With regard to the actual topic, I get that this stuff happens (I bought a Wii U at launch, I know painful updates) but they really need to better communicate this stuff or include the update on a disc. Parents buying this for a kid would have NO idea about the requirement, which could cause problems later on.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
For some reason some can't or insist not to. Unless Microsoft continues to mandate every system that's going to be produced for years to be updated I too don't see the problem to be as big as others make it out to be.
Steam seems to do just fine. You also only have to update it once, unlike what they wanted to do months ago.
When you're forced to use it in a certain way.
We're talking video games here. Being forced to go online to play Resident Evil is a little ridiculous.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
No different to the 100's of drive by posts by Sony gaf every day on Xbox One threads.
You're blind hatred for Xbox One is getting out of hand.
Marty Chinn
Member
It's about a consumer having some responsibility on how they spend their money. Every consumer should take some responsibility when spending a large amount of money. I'm not defending Microsoft, but there should still be some part that left to the consumer to know what they're buying. People are using things like no other console has done this so it shouldn't be expected. Every Sony console until now has had backwards compatibility. So going on the notion that we're to use the past to dictate expectations, then clearly if backwards compatibility was the norm for a Sony console, one should expect it for the PS4. In both cases of the Xbox One, and PS4, consumers shouldn't blindly just hand over the cash without knowing what each of the devices do. Simple research can show both situations simply by going to each of the respective official product pages and taking just a couple minutes to see what they're about.
It's not a form of deflection. You're missing the point that the consumer has to be responsible for how they spend their money. That's not saying Microsoft is doing the right thing here or that they should do what they do. This is saying nobody should be blindly throwing away $500 without having some idea of what they're buying. If someone went to buy a used car for $15,000 and didn't bother to have the engine checked, whose responsibility is that? Shitty of the seller to sell a bad car, but the buy should still have some responsibility before handing over $15,000 and buying the car.
Microsoft has every right to try to release an Internet required console and they have every right to fail for trying to do so and not understanding their market or what the consumers want. Consumers should still know what they're buying.
Uno Venova
Banned
Only new members with questionable post histories, like the one Amir0x quoted.
You're opting into it. Anyone doing so without reading requirements or doing their own research is just being willfully ignorant, and there are risks one takes with that approach with any consumer good.
Phat Michael
Banned
Agreed with all of this completely. It's a shame as it is in no way balanced across the board. It's a shame that so many people go out of their way to shit on anything related to MS games or the console and get away with it. When the reverse happens it's an instant ban.
Just the opposite. For months now MS's message has been "don't worry, we're not forcing you to use the Internet".
X1 can't use that 3g signal.
There you go. Microsoft had the opportunity to enter the breach and die with their sword in hand. But MS is no Marius Titus.
Yes, the retailers should deal with this. I can see GameStop telling people to bring in their consoles before Christmas and GS will make sure they are already set up and ready to play right after they are unwrapped.
Phat Michael
Banned
That member explained himself clearly. We have no way of knowing what consoles he owns, yet he is called out almost instantly?
Right. Any electronics has issues - this simply introduces a plethora of MORE issues. Which never needed to be the case. It is absolutely worth acknowledging the potential headaches and why such requirements are bad for consumers overall.
Once again, WE - as in YOU and I - are talking about this initial batch of problems with the first Xbox One owners, and why online should not be required. But WE - as in ME and RuckusSoldier - were talking about a larger overall point regarding why always online should never be an expectations, ever. The "Tens of Millions" comment was not at all about that initial update problem, it was a larger discussion about the overall impact of ever requiring online and why we should never accept it.
I don't know how else to properly explain to you the distinction between these two discussions here, because it seems like you're just putting cotton in your ears, but here's yet another attempt by me.
So, in summary, so that it's even easier to digest ->
● You and me are having a discussion regarding the implications of requiring an online connection for this update.
● Me and Ruckus are having a discussion regarding whether people should ever have an expectation about their systems requiring online at any point, and whether potential consumers should accept that or not.
Two distinct conversations regarding two different points; yours and mine are much smaller in scope, me and Ruckus are about the overall philosophical approach behind expecting online for anything on videogame consoles.
If you still don't understand, I don't know how else to describe this BUT as a 'reading comprehension' problem. It's literally that, by definition.
Nobody said it was the end of the world. We - as in you and I, distinct from Ruckus - only described problems that will factually arise, that never had to be, and why such requirements should never be in place if you want an inclusive console.
Most of the argument has been to try to shove responsibility from this problem from Microsoft to consumers. Consumers should not have to "deal with it." The one at fault for all these headaches is MIcrosoft. The one who could have avoided all these discussions we're having right now is Microsoft. The one who actively chose a path that got them so much criticism in the first place is Microsoft. The only one who decided to implement such draconian-DRM measures (that eventually led to an update that essentially is required if you don't want a bricked console) was Microsoft. The only one who failed to explain the benefits of their system pre-180 is Microsoft. The only one who continues to release confused, misleading or dishonest PR is Microsoft. The only one who failed to have a good workaround for those without internet is Microsoft. The only one who is the cause of every single problem related to the system is Microsoft.
The whole reason I even got into this discussion was because of some folk, such as yourself, trying to shove blame onto the consumers (for not being informed enough or not having the internet in this day and age or whatever), when it is in the end Microsoft's fault. They are the only ones to blame. Nobody should feel bad.
I mean I hope you're right as to your point of Microsoft offering such solutions. I do not think the update thing is a long-term problem or even a significant problem in the grand scheme of things, but it is in fact a problem.
What I do think is a problem is the attitude Microsoft and many of its fans have that we must eventually accept their dark vision of the future and we have no choice in the matter.
We do have a choice. We did have a choice. We exercised that choice. We will exercise that choice again if need be. Big business treads on us at their own peril.
What are you talking about? I'm not talking about people being confused about Xbox's policies. (how did you even get that from my post?)
I'm talking about the fact that Microsoft even implemented such a policy.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
And it's getting worse. It's becoming a hard place for pro Xbox One fans to hang out. And is this what Sony fans wants. To push out all pro Xbox One fans so this because SonyGaf?
fogboundturtle
Banned
and I replied with an appropriate response.
Uno Venova
Banned
Yes, because of his post history being in line with almost every astroturfer banned on this forum.
The only way I see this blowing up in Microsoft's face is if the servers get overloaded on launch preventing many people from downloading the patch. Other than that happening, I think the day one patch will be a non-issue for most people.
Also, if you don't plan on connecting your Xbox to the internet, I don't see why you would want to buy it in the first place (or even a PS4). All the features that Microsoft has been advertising for the Xbox requires an internet connection. It's not smart to spend $500 on a console if you would only be able to use a small percentage of its features. I was anti-Microsoft over the whole DRM issue, but getting mad at Microsoft over this is the definition of making a mountain out of a molehill.
Also, if you don't plan on connecting your Xbox to the internet, I don't see why you would want to buy it in the first place (or even a PS4). All the features that Microsoft has been advertising for the Xbox requires an internet connection. It's not smart to spend $500 on a console if you would only be able to use a small percentage of its features. I was anti-Microsoft over the whole DRM issue, but getting mad at Microsoft over this is the definition of making a mountain out of a molehill.
They've been explicit about the console needing a day one patch to function.
What policy, that they're console is broken without an update? Would YOU want consumers using your product if it didn't function well without a required update? MS fucked up with the DRM shit, reversed it, and now they're applying a band-aid approach to make it function. We're in beating a deadhorse mode with absolutely no good to possibly come from it. The console launches in 2 weeks. Systems are in distribution. Things are set.
There's nothing you could bring to the the conversation to reverse those unfortunate circumstances. If you're really worried about it, that your friends and family will be affected by it, then start informing them. If you really want to go that extra mile then go make a YouTube video articulating your concerns. I've seen songs become big hits. If you send me a link I'll watch it. Wait..no...I'll go that extra mile with you. I'll give you a thumbs up.
PrimaNocta
Member
My first paragraph pretty much explains why a day 1 patch for Microsoft is NECESSARY to be able to come out this holiday season. Of course, its due to their error on trying to create a DRM system no one wanted. But at least they reversed their stance and is giving us a system that we can all enjoy and hopefully love.
I mean god damn, even PS4 has a day 1 patch for important features and from what I understand they were never going to do a always online system. So whats their excuse for their delay? But I understand this is gaf and we need to complain about something....no matter how small.
fogboundturtle
Banned
People with the same opinions tends to gravitate towards each other. This is an normal human behavior. I can live with my choices and I don't need NeoGAF's approval. While they will only be enjoy 1 console, I will be enjoying both. I feel sad for them because they will be missing out on great games.
it is their responsibility as a consumer to do research on the products they are buying, yes, but that doesn't make it any less shitty
if the 24 hour check-ins had stayed and peoples internet had gone out because of a storm or something you'd probably be saying "Their fault for not living in a territory in with an infinitely stable connection in 2013"
just because microsoft didn't foresee the fact that they'd have to sell you a brick pre-patch doesn't let them off the hook for costumers ending up with obstacles that only have downsides and no benefits
BeastLeeAdams
Banned
Why are people getting mad about this again? This is very very very old news, and I am completely surprised people do not know about this already. 500 MB should be fine for most people, though I am probably going to have download it over night due to less than 1 MB internet =(.
Marty Chinn
Member
Let's be realistic here though. That's through the lifespan of the console between anywhere from core, to mid tier, to casual. You don't get that same demographic spread within the first month of sales of a new platform. That typically is more toward the core. So saying the Xbox 360 has a 50% online attach rate doesn't mean in the first month that it will be anywhere close to that. By the time you get to those numbers with a 50% ratio, the console will have long made it work out of the box.
many places
Member
Yeah his everyone having internet comment was dumb and Microsoft's original drm scheme was ridiculous but people should know what they are getting into if they knowingly shell out $500 for something.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
I didnt need to respond to that because I answered my own question right afterward.
Respond to the entire post, and if you must respond to a small portion of the post, make sure it is adding to the discussion at hand.
You spent all that time focusing on the technical issues when I had basically agreed with you that it was a headache overall.
Exactly.
Shitty connection aside, the game console still did it's main job, which was to play games when hooked up to a tv.
hard to do research when stuff gets 180'd, and a lot of the masses are going to just buy the system there kid wants instead of researching what to expect on day one
I just woke up. So is this true? If you get banned, you cannot play off-line games? even the mini games?
Oh man, if Xbox One has typical launch day server problems and people can't play for a few days, that would be quite a disaster. Doubt it'll happen since they already have the infrastructure though.
WordsintheWater
Member
You guys need to relax, some people have a bias, but stop lumping everyone together. Xbox has done a lot of stupid stuff so of course the majority of posts about Xbox will be negative. You can't do 100 negative things and then do a couple positive and expect people to forget what happened. Consumers have become sour to Microsoft so all of this expected, Microsoft brought a lot of this hate upon themselves.
I think the point is. Console game NEVER require internet to play. And everybody has that mindset since Atari day. Even if you do research how the hell you know it doee this. I mean for the parent and amd family. Unless the sell staff explicitly warn this. I doubt anyone will go to store and ask them whether this thing require internet or not. Hell even pc, smartphone, tablet. None of other electronic system require it.
Some people make it a bit sound exaggerate yes. But the point is clearly obvious. I cant imagine anyone could see this as a good thing and not confused for general customer.
Some people make it a bit sound exaggerate yes. But the point is clearly obvious. I cant imagine anyone could see this as a good thing and not confused for general customer.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not sure how it's hard. Prior, it required the Internet. Afterward, they've said it required the Internet to setup. 100% of the time it has required the Internet to some degree. Whether you went to xbox.com before or after, they tell you that. Simple research of going to the official product page will tell you that. Your kid wanting something does not excuse the parent from doing research before spending their money. If a 5 year old wanted GTAV, does the parent have no responsibility to know what the game is before they hand it over? Or is it okay saying they don't have time to research it.
Regardless of infrastructure, I've never seen a flawless launch. Even gigantic companies like Blizzard and EA have been brought to their knees from the sheer volume of people pouring through the servers. People always say "Oh, why don't they just buy more servers?" but I've been told it's never as simple as that. The best preparation you can have is preparing for the absolute worse scenario.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
It would be a bit hard to hear those who are the most affected, no?
Of course but how likely will there neighborhood shops be carrying an XBox One in the first place if it's that remote? Microsoft obviously has done some research and know where to release the product first. Anyone who wants to buy one out of region because it's region free will also be doing it over the internet, right? By the time those systems do hit there area chances are those units will have the OS built in.
So what it really stems to is your a right-fighter, for the people. Obviously some of these products are not for everyone and because of 'ethical' reasons they refuse to enjoy them. Have fun with that.
I'm showing my age, but here are my thoughts on things like this:
When I was a boy, we didn't have internet. And I don't mean, we couldn't afford internet, I mean, the internet didn't exist. We also didn't have cable most of the time, because it was pretty expensive, even back then, so it was basically network television for a large majority of my childhood. So, a video game console was a great way to entertain us kids when we were tired of our toys and board games, or books.
Back then, they didn't require anything other than hooking the box up to the TV and popping a game inside. It's been that way for over 30 years. Now, though, consoles require so much preparation and hoops to jump through, that, to me, it's no wonder that more people aren't getting into gaming. It's so overly complex.
A DVD or Blu Ray player is simple enough. Most cell phones include internet in their phone plans, so many people don't have to do too much to set up their device, and most of the time, the guy or gal at the store will set everything up before you leave.
On another note, my sister-in-law can't get internet. She can afford it, but they live on a farm in Iowa, and, they just can't get a connection out there. She has to drive a few miles to her sister's house just to check her email (she doesn't have a cell phone, either). She wants the latest gaming consoles (PS3, PS4), but things like mandatory updates, or features missing until updating are a big turn off for her. She just sticks to her SNES and PlayStation.
If the gaming industry wants to actually grow its consumer base and bring in new blood, they need to not do shit like this. This goes for both Sony and Microsoft, and Nintendo. I grew up with gaming, sure, so I know my shit and do my research, but if they really want to snag in more elusive consumers, the casual ones, this is not the best approach.
It's great that the Xbox ONE is an all in one media device, but if most of the consumers aren't even going to know how to access those features, or that an update is required to even boot the damn device, well, that's going to be a problem.
Even internet service providers and cable companies send technicians out to your house to set everything up for you. Consumers may be spoiled, and entitled, but if they're paying for a service, and at the prices they are paying (upwards of $60 a month for cable/internet, $400-$500 for a gaming console), the set up and out of the box functionality of the system should be as smooth as possible. This is not smooth. It's a fucking hassle, even for an informed gamer. Not a single one of us wants to waste time downloading a massive update for our systems day one, and not all of us have lightning fast internet connections. Shit, for some of us, a 300MB download could take upwards of an hour. I'm already on the phone constantly with AT&T trying to sort out me and my wife's internet connection issues before our PS4 arrives on Friday. At this point, we're ready to move on to another ISP, but that would mean going without internet for a while, and more than likely not being able to do much with our PS4 like Netflix, Hulu, multiplayer stuff, etc.
Plus people have gotten on Sony's case back in 2006-2008 with the PS3, & again with PS Vita.
So no, this site is not exactly "SonyGAF" like these posters are proclaiming it out to be. If a company fucks up in screwing over consumers, they don't get a free pass, whatever it's Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, or anyone else.
adamsappel
Member
I couldn't game online with the original Xbox because I didn't have a broadband connection at the time. Live was active for about a year before I could get on board. This isn't that much different, although Microsoft could alleviate it by providing the update on a separate disk to retailers.
Impeccable
Member
What the hell is this trash?
Oh, please. No one's trying to push out anyone.
This.
NeoGAF is one of the few spots (and certainly the largest) on the internet that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid that the industry as a whole shoves down our throats. When a company does something stupid, NeoGAF is the place that calls them out on it. And Microsoft has done some really, really stupid things in the last six months. Sony's catching some flak here and there, too, but they haven't reached Microsoft's level of ineptitude, which gives the appearance of bias where, in fact, there really is none. Microsoft earned what GAF is giving it.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
The thing is to them that is where the growth is. By selling us DLC, getting us to pay to play online. That's where they are investing. They also know having a dedicated game system is no longer enough. Millions now watch Netflix on them. They are also selling us movie rentals and music services. When a company like EA releases how much revenue in IOS games alone these game makers wake up and take notice. So to them those people on a farm in Iowa are sadly forgotten because that to them is not the market that is growing.
I believe 72% of US households was posted a little earlier in the thread.
But it COULD be the market that is growing, or at least part of it, if they didn't make boneheaded decisions that left out large swaths of the population. It's garbage.
fogboundturtle
Banned
and that number will increase over the life cycle of the console.