Support NeoGAF

[FlashbladeGAF]

I'm not sure how it's hard. Prior, it required the Internet. Afterward, they've said it required the Internet to setup. 100% of the time it has required the Internet to some degree. Whether you went to xbox.com before or after, they tell you that. Simple research of going to the official product page will tell you that. Your kid wanting something does not excuse the parent from doing research before spending their money. If a 5 year old wanted GTAV, does the parent have no responsibility to know what the game is before they hand it over? Or is it okay saying they don't have time to research it.

Whether it's 5 or 15 years of age, most parents or family members buy the game on the list, especially during Christmas, without researching anything.

Obviously a single game cant compare to a machine. With any machine there is some setup involved, but because of the history of video game console releases, you cant fault someone for not being aware of not being able to play a game on a brand new machine, the first day, if they have shitty to no internet connection.

You expect hooking up to the tv and wall socket will get you the most basic function of the system which is to play games on your tv. Just like you would expect that you could choose NOT to hook it up thru your cable provider to skip all the TV options.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

But it COULD be the market that is growing, or at least part of it, if they didn't make boneheaded decisions that left out large swaths of the population. It's garbage.

What's garbage, that you're on here on the internet telling us that could be the market that is growing?

 

[Barzul]

Very minor? Um, not exactly.

Link 1.
Link 2.

Like Amir0x said in these posts, there are at least 32 million people who bought an Xbox 360 that doesn't have an internet connection. That's still a huge amount.

This is not true there are 32 million consoles that never connected to the internet. Not connecting to the internet =/= Not having access to an internet connection.

 

[Raticus79]

This.

NeoGAF is one of the few spots (and certainly the largest) on the internet that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid that the industry as a whole shoves down our throats. When a company does something stupid, NeoGAF is the place that calls them out on it. And Microsoft has done some really, really stupid things in the last six months. Sony's catching some flak here and there, too, but they haven't reached Microsoft's level of ineptitude, which gives the appearance of bias where, in fact, there really is none. Microsoft earned what GAF is giving it.

I have a little canned reply I'm fond of for these situations when NeoGAF is getting shit on in other forums.

"NeoGAF isn't anti-MS, it's anti-BS."
Doesn't matter who it is, they get called out on it.

 

[Amir0x]

So what it really stems to is your a right-fighter, for the people. Obviously some of these products are not for everyone and because of 'ethical' reasons they refuse to enjoy them. Have fun with that.

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

 

[Thorgi]

What's garbage, that you're on here on the internet telling us that could be the market that is growing?

What, just because I have an Internet connection means I'm not qualified to sympathize those who don't, or have a terrible connection? That's a laugh. It's common sense that if they included more people, the market would grow. I don't need to fulfill your clown shoes requirements to say that.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Whether it's 5 or 15 years of age, most parents or family members buy the game on the list, especially during Christmas, without researching anything.

And no matter how you twist it, that is still the responsibility of the consumer. No matter how shitty Microsoft's decisions, product, or whatever is, the consumer still has responsibility on what they're buying. If they want to blind buy something, then it's their fault.

Obviously a single game cant compare to a machine. With any machine there is some setup involved, but because of the history of video game console releases, you cant fault someone for not being aware of not being able to play a game on a brand new machine, the first day, if they have shitty to no internet connection.

Everyone keeps bringing up history as an excuse to not doing any research before dropping $400 to $500 on a new device. Does this mean we can never ever have an Internet required console because nobody did it before? Does this mean the consumer bears no blame for expecting the PS4 to be backwards compatible when every Sony console before it was?

You expect hooking up to the tv and wall socket will get you the most basic function of the system which is to play games on your tv. Just like you would expect that you could choose NOT to hook it up thru your cable provider to skip all the TV options.

Whose fault is it if they have a standard def TV without an HDMI port? Afterall, no prior console made HDMI a requirement.

 

[Yasir]

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

/applauds

 

[Ol No Bones]

I thought you'd be able to at least watch DVDs.

Expensive DVD player.

 

[blitzcloud]

This is not true there are 32 million consoles that never connected to the internet. Not connecting to the internet =/= Not having access to an internet connection.

please.



please.

 

[Principate]

Whether it's 5 or 15 years of age, most parents or family members buy the game on the list, especially during Christmas, without researching anything.

Obviously a single game cant compare to a machine. With any machine there is some setup involved, but because of the history of video game console releases, you cant fault someone for not being aware of not being able to play a game on a brand new machine, the first day, if they have shitty to no internet connection.

You expect hooking up to the tv and wall socket will get you the most basic function of the system which is to play games on your tv. Just like you would expect that you could choose NOT to hook it up thru your cable provider to skip all the TV options.

What are you complaining about exactly, do you think Microsoft's wants you to feel inconvenienced at Christmas? You can call this competence which it is but that's all there is to this unless some dastardly information is revealed. Microsoft isn't morally wrong in any of this unless it's purposeful, it's a knock against there product sure but there's nothing they can really do and there's nothing you can really or any consumers and really do by being angry by it. It's a sort term inconvenience but let's not try to blow this into something it's not without information proving this is some dastardly scheme get everyone online. If you don't like it don't buy it but it's not really verbal complain worthy outside of calling the company incompetent.

please.



please.

The xbox 360 didn't originally even come with a wireless adapter which you had to buy and were quite expensive. Considering ethernet is not all that viable in a lot of situations it's not at all surprising why many never bothered. Hell it's the reason my 360 never got connected.

 

[RedSwirl]

Couldn't they just allow a USB or disc update? PS4 already will.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

Cool story.

What, just because I have an Internet connection means I'm not qualified to sympathize those who don't, or have a terrible connection? That's a laugh. It's common sense that if they included more people, the market would grow. I don't need to fulfill your clown shoes requirements to say that.

Sympathize all you want, it still doesn't explain if that's a growing market or not. The systems are likely sold out and I imagine new shipments will have the OS built in. Does the clown shoes comment make you feel better now?

 

[Marty Chinn]

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

Good for you and Microsoft should feel the full weight of making bad decisions. I whole heartily agree. Also, I hope you never bought DLC =)

 

[Ponn]

Dont know why people are saying people should do research first. Preorders have been up for months and the only reason this was revealed was because some guy got the machine early and MS was forced to release a statement. MS was not forthcoming with this info and ”gaming journalist” once again being just gaming journalist.

I also really find this who cares about deployed military or conveniently leave them out of no internet discussions distasteful.

 

[Amir0x]

Cool story.

It's not really a story, but I see you've given up the ghost so my job is done here.

 

[Thorgi]

Sympathize all you want, it still doesn't explain if that's a growing market or not. It just means more people have access. Does the clown shoes comment make you feel better now?

Regardless of market growth or not, they're still screwing over a large swath of the population.

 

[Myshkin]

I guess they just didn't give a shit about the 10's of millions of offline buyers after estimating what DRM would do for them while losing offline buyers. (Which doesn't make sense to me. 30 million you guys said? VS maybe half a million less of expected pre-orders that caused them to 180.)

Apparently, MS really didn't care about 10's of millions of customers they already had. They stated their expectation that the new generation could reach a billion people. The only way that could happen is if the generation lasted forever, or if that billion had nothing to do with gaming (and the sales of the 360).

My guess is that they didn't have time to get consoles out without needed the patch. So it will be a temporary issue.

We're going to be hearing about this again. Some day someone's launch X1 will brick, and they'll need to factory reset it, and they'll go "oh crap, this thing can't do anything until it's updated". Maybe MS will speed things along and issue some patch that bricks thousands of consoles - just like MS sometimes does with Windows updates that brick installations and even don't bother to take a restore point because MS thinks they're so safe.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Dont know why people are saying people should do research first. Preorders have been upfor months and the only reason this was revealed was because some guy got the machine early and MS was forced to release a statement. MS was not forthcoming with this info and ”gaming journalist” onc again being just gaming journalist.

I also really find this who cares about deployed military or conveniently leave them out of no internet discussions distasteful.

Microsoft said it a long time ago that there would have to be a day one update in order to play games.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Dont know why people are saying people should do research first. Preorders have been upfor months and the only reason this was revealed was because some guy got the machine early and MS was forced to release a statement. MS was not forthcoming with this info and ”gaming journalist” onc again being just gaming journalist.

I also really find this who cares about deployed military or conveniently leave them out of no internet discussions distasteful.

What are you talking about? This has been known. This is on Microsoft's Xbox One page:

Play Xbox One games online or offline.
Your Xbox One doesn’t need to be connected for you to enjoy offline features of games. In fact, you can take the Xbox One anywhere and play any disc-based Xbox One game on it. The only times you need an online connection are for initial set-up of Xbox One, and to get the latest system and title updates before you start playing some games.

 

[Barzul]

Another thing it seems some people are assuming is that because there is a connection requirement now, there will always be one. I'm betting by Q1 2014 that requirement will be gone and the patch will come preloaded.

 

[bidguy]

wait youre buying a console for a half grand but dont have internet access ? seems like youve got bigger problems then

 

[Louis Cyphre]

It's not really a story, but I see you've given up the ghost so my job is done here.

That's the interesting thing, your job will never be done which is why I would never apply for it. Instead I can sit back and actually enjoy life.

Regardless of market growth or not, they're still screwing over a large swath of the population.

Yes, to put it mildly they are. Just like when they required broadband connections to play online on the first XBox. Still, that doesn't really matter if new shipments will come with the OS now does it or will you switch gears and move onto something else to suggest they are screwing us over with?

Another thing it seems some people are assuming is that because there is a connection requirement now, there will always be one. I'm betting by Q1 2014 that requirement will be gone and the patch will come preloaded.

shhhh, don't diffuse the situation.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Their fault for not having internet in 2013 and buying a $500 console without doing research.

Well, what exactly were they supposed to do research on? The internet?

 

[Thorgi]

Yes, to put it mildly they are. Just like when they required broadband connections to play online on the first XBox. Still, that doesn't really matter does it if new shipments will come with the OS now does it or will you switch gears and move onto something else to suggest they are screwing us over with?



shhhh, don't diffuse the situation.

Oh, they'll be shipping with the OS update eventually? That's good. Still, should be like that from launch.

 

[DarkCloud]

hard to do research when stuff gets 180'd, and a lot of the masses are going to just buy the system there kid wants instead of researching what to expect on day one

Considering the consoles packaging states that internet is required I don't see how that isn't all the research needed for a consumer to make a decision on whether they meet the requirements needed to use the console before purchasing it. It's not like it's hidden in the fine print in the manual. It's on the box they are buying.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Oh, they'll be shipping with the OS update eventually? That's good.

If they don't eventually then I will join your band.

Considering the consoles packaging states that internet is required I don't see how that isn't all the research needed for a consumer to make a decision on whether they meet the requirements needed to use the console before purchasing it. It's not like it's hidden in the fine print in the manual. It's on the box they are buying.

Anyone have an early leaked photo of the box?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

wait youre buying a console for a half grand but dont have internet access ? seems like youve got bigger problems then

Why is it so hard to understand that there are in fact, people that live in households with no internet access?... why are they viewed as something akin to Sasquatch?

 

[thepotatoman]

This is not true there are 32 million consoles that never connected to the internet. Not connecting to the internet =/= Not having access to an internet connection.

But remember that the 360 did not come with WiFi capability for most if not all of the generation. It's very possible those people have WiFi but not the ability to run a cable to their living room, or the care to purchase the insanely overpriced wifi adapter.

 

[fogboundturtle]

Well, what exactly were they supposed to do research on? The internet?

Its up to the retailers to educate the consumer. Its an online centric console. It function at its best when its connected online. So MSFT is taking a gamble. Good for them for trying something different. Remember when they came up with broaband only xbox live with voice chat. That was see has radical back then. Today it is the standard. You cannot make an omelette without breaking an egg. If you are dumb enough to spend 500$ on a console without doing research before, shame on you. I have no sympathy whatsoever for them.

 

[Sydle]

Considering the consoles packaging states that internet is required I don't see how that isn't all the research needed for a consumer to make a decision on whether they meet the requirements needed to use the console before purchasing it. It's not like it's hidden in the fine print in the manual. It's on the box they are buying.

But someone may buy it for them and this year Christmas is at a relative's house without an internet connection.

Why is it so hard to understand that there are in fact, people that live in households with no internet access?... why are they viewed as something akin to Sasquatch?

Easy to believe there are households without internet. Hard to believe anyone in that household is a day-one adopter of a new console that starts at $499.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

What are you complaining about exactly, do you think Microsoft's wants you to feel inconvenienced at Christmas? You can call this competence which it is but that's all there is to this unless some dastardly information is revealed. Microsoft isn't morally wrong in any of this unless it's purposeful, it's a knock against there product sure but there's nothing they can really do and there's nothing you can really or any consumers and really do by being annoyed by it. It's a sort term inconvenience but let's not try to blow this into something it's not without information proving this is some dastardly scheme get everyone online.

I'm not complaining at all
I'm only saying it's not entirely the consumers fault.

Yes they should do research, but at the same time, when you buy a game machine... you expect to play games regardless if you have an internet connection or not.

If anything like most products, it should say on the box (TV, Internet, batteries required)

Companies want you to buy, especially impulse buy, and the last thing they want you to do is heavily research it and/or it's competition.
(Especially with resolutiongate going on now)

That's why marketing is so important and why the Wii-u is failing. Its easy to do research and find out that the Wii-u isnt a Wii accessory, but that hasnt stopped most from continuing to think it is, and so they dont buy it.

 

[Elios83]

I don't think this is a real issue. It's the ending result of a series of mess ups but it's very unlikely that people buying a 500$ console at launch won't have an internet connection available when they go back home.

 

[Ponn]

Microsoft said it a long time ago that there would have to be a day one update in order to play games.

Games, not anything at all. Alberts clarification a couple days ago makes a difference. Some people thought they could release the patch on a disc. Pont blank people deployed who preordered are screwed.

 

[Amir0x]

That's the interesting thing, your job will never be done which is why I would never apply for it. Instead I can sit back and actually enjoy life.

Ah, it's so funny people don't realize I only participate in things I enjoy. I always have the world's most gleeful expression when I'm engaged of debate. I love debate.

Sorry to disappoint you as you segue from appropriately responding to points raised to trying to imply things about the people making them.

 

[fogboundturtle]

I'm not complaining at all
I'm only saying it's not entirely the consumers fault.

Yes they should do research, but at the same time, when you buy a game machine you expect to play games regardless if you have an internet connection or not.

If anything like most products, it should say on the box (TV, Internet, batteries required)
Companies want you to buy, especially impulse buy, and the last thing they want you to do is heavily research it and it's competition.

That's why marketing is so important and why the Wii-u is failing. Its easy to do research and find out that the Wii-u isnt a Wii accessory, but the masses will buy whatever is on their lists/word of mouth

As a Wiiu owner, let me tell you why its failing. The OS is horrendous, the gamepad is very distractive (takes the eyes away from the main tv set) andthe battery life is beyond crappy. There is almost no third party title and its underpower compare to the coming PS4/Xbox One. Wiiu is an total failure.

 

[Biker19]

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

I agree. Plus to those that say, "It's the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection or for not having online!", let me ask you something: Since when did this became the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection & not the companies themselves that implement such BS like "Always Online," exactly? When? Tell me.

This mindset is just dumb, & silly.

 

[MonaKyshu]

atleast this is only going to be a launch console issue right? the next batch of Xbones shouldn't need this if microsoft patches it in themselves. anyone have faith in them doing this?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Pre-order cancelled.

Spoiler

I don't really have it pre-ordered...

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Ah, it's so funny people don't realize I only participate in things I enjoy. I always have the world's most gleeful expression when I'm engaged of debate. I love debate.

Sorry to disappoint you as you segue from appropriately responding to points raised to trying to imply things about the people making them.

That's fine and I too like to debate. I have no ill will towards you but your ideologies differ from mine, big deal. That's what's great about this place, different views. I make a point of never getting emotional because for one thing you could be a really cool person and I wouldn't know it.

 

[MoeB]

Ah, it's so funny people don't realize I only participate in things I enjoy. I always have the world's most gleeful expression when I'm engaged of debate. I love debate.

Sorry to disappoint you as you segue from appropriately responding to points raised to trying to imply things about the people making them.

Don't reply to haters. It only makes them stronger.

 

[fogboundturtle]

I agree. Plus to those that say, "It's the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection or for not having online!", let me ask you something: Since when did this became the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection & not the companies themselves that implement such BS like "Always Online," exactly? Tell me.

It's just dumb, & silly.

It is the fault of the consumer if they buy an online centric console if they don't have internet. It's not Microsoft's fault. They are dumb and silly.

 

[ChosenPredator]

Agreed with all of this completely. It's a shame as it is in no way balanced across the board. It's a shame that so many people go out of their way to shit on anything related to MS games or the console and get away with it. When the reverse happens it's an instant ban.

I've noticed this but im to scared to say anything cause i think ill be banned lol

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

As a Wiiu owner, let me tell you why its failing. The OS is horrendous, the gamepad is very distractive (takes the eyes away from the main tv set) andthe battery life is beyond crappy. There is almost no third party title and its underpower compare to the coming PS4/Xbox One. Wiiu is an total failure.

As a wii U owner myself
The gamepad is awesome, Miiverse is a great tool and games like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, LOZ WW HD, ZombiU and Nintendo Land are fun as hell.

People who havent bought the Wii-U dont know about the little nagging issues that have more or less been fixed. The system just doesnt exist to most of the folks out there.
But to the few that are starting to learn about it, with the current lineup of games coming out, they are finding out that the gamepad is no more distracting than looking at your speedometer while driving.

In some cases Zombie U, Nintendoland, Lego City, Wii Party U, it actually adds to the immersion and fun.



But Like Nintendo, M$ needs to get the message across(need online) to avoid any confusion like the Wii-u had with being a part of the original Wii.

And I think M$ is more than capable of doing that

 

[Sydle]

I agree. Plus to those that say, "It's the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection or for not having online!", let me ask you something: Since when did this became the consumer's fault for not having an internet connection & not the companies themselves that implement such BS like "Always Online," exactly? Tell me.

It's just dumb, & silly.

Since when is it not the consumer's responsibility to have some knowledge of what they are consuming?

 

[Biker19]

It is the fault of the consumer if they buy an online centric console if they don't have internet. It's not Microsoft's fault. They are dumb and silly.

Since when is it not the consumer's responsibility to have some knowledge of what they are consuming?

See, that's what I mean, you guys are taking it up for the companies instead of for the consumers.

It's just sad.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

What an idiot. You do realise there are people that can't get internet and not out of choice. You'll do well here

Then in that case they shouldn't get the xbone.

 

[Fess]

Considering the consoles packaging states that internet is required I don't see how that isn't all the research needed for a consumer to make a decision on whether they meet the requirements needed to use the console before purchasing it. It's not like it's hidden in the fine print in the manual. It's on the box they are buying.

How big is that internet requirement text though?
I just found out that Beyond Two Souls Special Edition need internet access to get the special edition content, nothing is on the disc, everything is dlc, and the text that states that internet is required is tiiiny and on the back of the box, on the plastic folder that holds the metal case. No problem for me right now but I was without internet 3 months this summer, I would've been quite pissed if I got the game back then. And that was just a game, and only bonus content, but buying a game console at launch only to find out that you can't use it for several months, or at all, is not fun. A label with a requirement like that should be big, red/yellow, like a warning sign, at the front of the box and impossible to miss. Is that the case with XB1?

 

[cyberheater]

I am a fighter for myself, who is a consumer. That it happens to coincide with the needs of the vast majority of videogame consumers is a happy coincidence I am glad to support.

I will not support any actions against myself as a consumer, since I am a consumer. People who let businesses fuck them to me must lack a sense of self-respect.

Come on Amir0x. Your a smart guy. It really isn't as black as white as that. You're painting a picture where MS is the villain and Sony is the knight in shining armour.
They are both out to make as much money from consumers as possible. The difference is that Sony currently have got there shit together PR wise and have managed to not shoot themselves in foot too many times this go around.

 

[fogboundturtle]

As a wii U owner myself
The gamepad is awesome, Miiverse is a great tool and games like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, LOZ WW HD, ZombiU and Nintendo Land are fun as hell.

People who havent bought the Wii-U dont know about the little nagging issues that have more or less been fixed. The system just doesnt exist to most of the folks out there.
But to the few that are starting to learn about it, with the current lineup of games coming out, they are finding out that the gamepad is no more distracting than looking at your speedometer while driving.

In some cases Zombie U, Nintendoland, Lego City, Wii Party U, it actually adds to the immersion and fun.

This is where we will disagree. I am glad you like it. Mine has been power off for months now. Yes, I did the last firmware update. Still slow as hell. ZombieU had terrible controls. The only game I enjoy on it so far was Monster Hunter because I could play with the pro controller. You guys talk about choices and anti-consumerism all the time but Nintendo is forcing me to play with the gamepad and I hate it. The pro controller is so much better but its not supported in half the game.