Protagonist thrust into terrible situation manages to organize and uplift others in the same terrible situation and eventually overcomes the situation through teamwork and newly discovered magical skills.
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Brandon Sanderson - The Cosmere |OT| there's always another secret...
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Protagonist thrust into terrible situation manages to organize and uplift others in the same terrible situation and eventually overcomes the situation through teamwork and newly discovered magical skills.
Wowfunhappy
Member
The most central plot in both stories revolves around a group of people who have been thrown into a Really Bad Situation. Everyone in Really Bad Situation has lost Hope, because they are guaranteed to (1) die soon and (2) live a miserable existence until they die. Really Great Guy enters Really Bad Situation, but is able to last a surprisingly long time without dying, and doesn't lose Hope. Then, he works to restore hope in other people, by creating a sense of community and a shared purpose. By maintaining faith and working together, they are able to escape Really Bad Situation.
Edit: Beaten
Yeah but the comparisons basically end there. The plots go in completely different directions, and the "Gods" bare very little resemblance to each other.
Plot wise they aren't that similar, but some of the themes are. It's basically just stuff he's talked about in annotations though.
Poodlestrike
Banned
There's some structural similarities between Kaladin and the Elantris' protagonists struggles. Most notably the Last Minute Powerup, though it's way more pronounced in the latter's case.
So, at best, part of one third of Elantris has similarities with The Way of Kings.
As i said, not really seeing it. Such struggles are not uncommon to fantasy (or fiction in general) either.
Personality-wise, Raoden and Kaladin are like opposites too, Chronic Hero Syndrome aside.
EDIT Last minute powerup is something that happens many times in Sanderson's works. A bit too many to be honest, though fortunately Sanderson justifies it nearly always pretty well.
As i said, not really seeing it. Such struggles are not uncommon to fantasy (or fiction in general) either.
Personality-wise, Raoden and Kaladin are like opposites too, Chronic Hero Syndrome aside.
EDIT Last minute powerup is something that happens many times in Sanderson's works. A bit too many to be honest, though fortunately Sanderson justifies it nearly always pretty well.
Yesterday I was looking to create an alternate PSN name and ended up going down the glossary list for Stormlight / Cosmere terms until I saw that "Worldhopper" was available. Snagged that immediately.
Out of probably all the terms, that was one of my most sought after (maybe behind Thunderclast).
Now I am sad that my alternate PSN name is cooler than my main I can't really transfer anything.
Out of probably all the terms, that was one of my most sought after (maybe behind Thunderclast).
Now I am sad that my alternate PSN name is cooler than my main I can't really transfer anything.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Yeah, I have trouble thinking of a protagonist from one of Sandersons' series that doesn't get a Last Minute Powerup. It doesn't happen at the end of *every* book, but it's happened in Mistborn, Elantris, SA, Warbreaker, Reckoners...it's super common, but I've just kinda come to expect both that and the Big Twist. I know they're coming by now which you would *think* dulls the impact of them, but most of the time they still get me.
WoK spoilers
When Dalinar has that dream where he learns that Odium already killed the Almighty a while ago I was legit shook.
Incandenza
Banned
(WoK)
is an all time great Sanderson moment. Even if it's a bit predictable it's just executed so well.
"The words, Kaladin!"
krameriffic
Member
Finished Words of Radiance yesterday. Handily my favorite fantasy books ever at this point, now I'm just disappointed that it's going to be another 20 years before they're finished. At least I've got a bunch of other Cosmere stuff to fill up the next 4 months until Oathbringer is out.
i think brandon does a really good job of making them feel earned, so it always works well, even if it's a bit of a trope at this point
Incandenza
Banned
Still trying to make it through Words of Radiance but man this section with
is baaaad
Shallan and Kaladin stuck in a chasm and trading lame insults with each other
I thought the end of that scene had really nice payoff. But then I wasn't as turned off by that scene as you.
Wafflecakes
Member
My favorite section of the book... I really liked it.
Seemed accurate to their characters.
Some people have a really really negative reaction to Shallan's brand of wit. I get it, but I love it. Love that scene too.
VyechnayaSlava
Member
Just re read Emperor's Soul. Man, philosophical Sanderson is great
Still haven't gotten around reading Emperor's Soul... and most of non-major Cosmere world shorts.
When it comes to minor things, i've never been a fan of short stories, the only exceptions being some by Clarke or Asimov.
But Emperor's Soul... considering how well received it is, i've no idea why i can't get around starting it. The only thing i can think of is that i regard Sel way too boring world, and somehow this taints ES in my mind. Maybe. Go figure how your mind works...
When it comes to minor things, i've never been a fan of short stories, the only exceptions being some by Clarke or Asimov.
But Emperor's Soul... considering how well received it is, i've no idea why i can't get around starting it. The only thing i can think of is that i regard Sel way too boring world, and somehow this taints ES in my mind. Maybe. Go figure how your mind works...
NippleViking
Banned
Incandenza
Banned
I think I'm in the minority in finding Words of Radiance a huge step down in comparison to The Way of Kings. Hopefully Oathbreaker can restore my interest when it comes out. If not, then, well... at least there's always more Mistborn on the horizon!
Wafflecakes
Member
I didn't see it as romance at all...
Opposite genders getting along does not automatically make it a romance.
I am the opposite. WoR was a major upgrade.
... also, the newer Mistborn stuff has been hot trash.
True, but Kaladin definitely caught feelings after their romp in the chasms.
I loved it, though. That moment when they learn that they both went through hell throughout their lives was amazing.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
I have two other long books on my TBR before I can really dive in to Way of Kings but I'm liking what I've read so far. It's grabbed me a lot more than when I tried to read The Final Empire.
I'm assuming I'm not supposed to understand a single thing about "Prelude to the Stormlight Archive" right? Because I couldn't tell what was going on.
The gravity changing assassination scene 4500 years later was pretty awesome.
Also would there be a benefit to reading The Emperor's Soul before Way of Kings? I have a copy of both.
I'm assuming I'm not supposed to understand a single thing about "Prelude to the Stormlight Archive" right? Because I couldn't tell what was going on.
The gravity changing assassination scene 4500 years later was pretty awesome.
Also would there be a benefit to reading The Emperor's Soul before Way of Kings? I have a copy of both.
I love the two books but I find some of the dialogue just to be so forced and a bit cringe. I found the same with Shallan and Kabsal in WoK.
Man, I am throwing record amounts of side eye today. Work, Facebook, GAF...
He absolutely did. He's not obsessively pining after her or anything but saying they "got along" feels massively off track. She did as well, even if she's still fixated upon Adolin for the most part.
The prelude was a very typical standard flash-fiction prelude giving you a little glimpse of what happened in the past that sets the stage for the story in the "present". It offers hints about the world and the magic which shouldn't be understood until much later in the story.
Emperor's Soul can be read at any time. It is as detached from overall Cosmere connections as possible at this point. I have a feeling some bits may get hooked into Elantris sequels, but for now you are in the clear.
I agree with the suggestion to read Warbreaker before Words of Radiance though. It's not critical to the story at all, but it is suggested.
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
I've been reading Mistborn, and I'm really enjoying it. I think Vin might be my favorite character out of the whole cosmere
Agreed, they were my first Sanderson works
So I said this before, but Sanderson has the type of prose that I can only stand if the content is really, really good. Stormlight Archives is the only of his work that I read and that's mainly because I heard that he describes it as his best work.
Do people generally agree with this stance?
Do people generally agree with this stance?
I think it's his best work also. The magic system in Mistborn was more interesting to me though. But yeah the overall package of Stormlight is better so far.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
I've tried a sample of Way of Kings, and sentences like this bother me:
Such a contrast?
Is his sentence structure consistently this cumbersome? The hype for these books is unreal and I want to experience them, but I always move on to another book after reading a chapter or two of the sample on Kindle.
Short version: Yes.
Long version: Yes, but it slowly bothers you less the more you learn about the world and get invested. The content is great, but the language used to describe the content is weak.
I actually almost never read SA because of it. Some years ago, I picked up Way of Kings and got maybe 33% through it before dropping it for basically this exact reason. Then, last year, I tried to read Wheel of Time. Wheel of time is SO much worse and by the time I dropped it, I just needed some kind of cleanser and decided to try Way of Kings a second time. Reading WoT made Sanderson's much easier to tolerate, and once the ball got rolling and I got invested in the world, mysteries, and characters, it slowly bothered me less and less overall. I kind of view Sanderson's writing as like an overenthusiastic fanboy. I'm more amused by his fumbles than annoyed.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Well, it's comforting to know that there's someone else who can relate to me on this. You're right, maybe I need to read something worse than Stormlight to appreciate Sanderson's writing more, but it's tough when the last few fantasy authors I've read have consisted of Steven Erikson, George R. R. Martin, Robin Hobb, and Josiah Bancroft.
Incandenza
Banned
If you're a stickler for prose, Sanderson is probably gonna drive you up a wall. I think most fans will agree that it's plain at best, clunky at worst. Stormlight Archives is about average, maybe a bit above average for him. Perhaps the best that can be said about it is that during action sequences his writing tends to be clear and succinct enough that the prose kind of falls away and you can just burn through page after page. It's during the slower, more character-focused sections that you really start to feel his shortcomings as a writer.
If you haven't read his short fiction, they're a good, low-investment way to get a sense of what's good and bad about his stories and whether you'd be interested in something longer in that style. Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and Sixth of the Dusk can both be had cheaply on Kindle.
It's the Sanderson trade-off. He writes so much it's unreal... it almost doesn't seem possible the number of words he produces per day. Surely the most prolific big fantasy author of any kind of decent repute publishing today.
It's just that what he writes is a little on the plain side
The stories themselves are truly excellent. Just plainly and sometimes clunkily told. But it won't matter when you're two thirds through a book and every page is "oh shit... OH SHIT..."
It's just that what he writes is a little on the plain side
The stories themselves are truly excellent. Just plainly and sometimes clunkily told. But it won't matter when you're two thirds through a book and every page is "oh shit... OH SHIT..."
It's the Sanderson trade-off. He writes so much it's unreal... it almost doesn't seem possible the number of words he produces per day. Surely the most prolific big fantasy author of any kind of decent repute publishing today.
It's just that what he writes is a little on the plain side
The stories themselves are truly excellent. Just plainly and sometimes clunkily told. But it won't matter when you're two thirds through a book and every page is "oh shit... OH SHIT..."
Yep. For my part I've never cared much about prose when it comes to fiction. Whenever I see criticisms of Sanderson based on prose I can't even wrap my head around it because it doesn't even register, with few exceptions. The story and world grab me or it doesn't.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Sanderson's writing style is pretty flat, I'll agree. His strongest point by a million miles is his worldbuilding, otherwise he's mostly just okay.
It's the Sanderson trade-off. He writes so much it's unreal... it almost doesn't seem possible the number of words he produces per day. Surely the most prolific big fantasy author of any kind of decent repute publishing today.
It's just that what he writes is a little on the plain side
The stories themselves are truly excellent. Just plainly and sometimes clunkily told. But it won't matter when you're two thirds through a book and every page is "oh shit... OH SHIT..."
Exactly how I feel. He's a monster in the speed he writes. I rather deal with his writing style than deal with GRRM style wait times for book releases.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
lol one of the reasons I decided to read Way of Kings was because after finishing Wise Man's Fear the idea of an author regularly putting out books (and having a progress bar on their website) sounded amazing!
slightconfuse
Banned
I think Sanderson does action well when combined with his magic systems
Yeah. I noticed this a few weeks ago. Luckily I had already bought all the stuff I wanted.
Seems like it's across the board with Tor published books which all used to be part of the scheme (I think). I wonder what happened there as they were one of the more forward thinking when it came to ebooks.
Thankfully I've only missed one or two I think. Realized it when I noticed Oathbringer didn't have the option. When Arcanum Unbounded came out, getting the kindle version simultaneously on match was so nice.
Incandenza
Banned
It's no surprise at this point, but that Mistborn video game isn't happening.
The most interesting part of that post: at one point Obsidian and Chris Avellone were in talks to work on the game. Could you imagine?
The most interesting part of that post: at one point Obsidian and Chris Avellone were in talks to work on the game. Could you imagine?
It was actually cancelled sometime ago. Posted about it here, i think. Though perhaps that was unofficial cancellation, now that i think of it.
EDIT Yup, posted this few months ago:
EDIT If the CEO is being honest though, i guess the game's problems wasn't necessarily developer competence but other events.
Interesting that the devs note Assassin's Creed and Dishonored. The former is certainly a good basis for Mistborn, so it seems the devs were on the right track at least.
EDIT Yup, posted this few months ago:
EDIT If the CEO is being honest though, i guess the game's problems wasn't necessarily developer competence but other events.
Interesting that the devs note Assassin's Creed and Dishonored. The former is certainly a good basis for Mistborn, so it seems the devs were on the right track at least.
While we've got bad news about the Mistborn video game, we do have some good news about the Mistborn Adventure Game (tabletop RPG):
The second Alloy of Law-era supplement is tentatively scheduled to be digitally released on 8 August. (Physical book presumably soon after.)
http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8533.msg170557#msg170557
The second Alloy of Law-era supplement is tentatively scheduled to be digitally released on 8 August. (Physical book presumably soon after.)
http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8533.msg170557#msg170557
After I finished everything in the Cosmere earlier this year I decided to re-read the Wheel of Time. Just wrapping up The Gathering Storm now. It's kind of odd how the writing style changes from chapter to chapter. I don't mind it because overall the pacing of the novel feels better than several of the previous few books, but it can definitely be distracting at times.
Anyway, the main thing I wanted to say was that the last 20% or so feels so distinctly Brandon. It's very fun and satisfying to read, just like the endings of hi own books. The first time I read TGS was before I had touched any of Brandon's other stuff so I wasn't familiar with his endings back then. It's great.
Anyway, the main thing I wanted to say was that the last 20% or so feels so distinctly Brandon. It's very fun and satisfying to read, just like the endings of hi own books. The first time I read TGS was before I had touched any of Brandon's other stuff so I wasn't familiar with his endings back then. It's great.
I have vague recollection of the same.
I reckon the style changes tend to result from stuff Jordan wrote, stuff Sanderson wrote and stuff Jordan wrote partially and Sanderson expanded or tweaked. Kinda unavoidable really, in a situation like that.
Pretty sure Sanderson said he didn't try to imitate Jordan's style, rather it was "Jordan's story, as told by Sanderson". Perhaps he should've, perhaps it wouldn't have done any good.
How weird it is. A world with no more Wheel of Time. It was a series i read for so many years...
As much as i like the Cosmere books, and the Stormlight Archive especially, it doesn't feel quite the same.... I do not mean to imply i see it as worse, but the experience is different somehow.
I wonder how much finishing WoT catapulted Sanderson's career. I know i hadn't heard of his books before him being revealed as WoT's writer after Jordan passed away.
Jest Chillin
Member
The thing is.. Mistborn was already well on its way.. So I would say, if WoT did anything, it sped up Sanderson's recognition. But without a doubt he'd still be just as well known. Especially considering that his proclivity is a major draw for fans.
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