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[delta25]

But Australia is still here...

edit: the more I think about I cant imagine the stories some of you older australians grew up with in regards to your ancestors.

 

[Kabouter]

I was thinking again about this issue today, do you think guys the British have disposed of the records because they somehow knew about the risk of leakage priorly ?

Well, as the article notes, they were worried about them falling into the hands of post-independence governments. Revealing the full scale of Britain's colonial crimes might well have severely damaged their political influence in the world, and perhaps even pushed countries closer to the opposing side in the Cold War.

 

[Tex117]

LOL!

Well this comes as a surprise!

 

[twobear]

I was thinking again about this issue today, do you think guys the British have disposed of the records because they somehow knew about the risk of leakage priorly ?

Why would they destroy them otherwise? The British tried to project (largely successfully, unfortunately) the notion that theirs was a benevolent Empire. You can't have some pesky atrocities getting in the way of a whopping fat lie.

 

[Aylinato]

Why would they destroy them otherwise? The British tried to project (largely successfully, unfortunately) the notion that theirs was a benevolent Empire. You can't have some pesky atrocities getting in the way of a whopping fat lie.

Even if they destroyed evidence on their side, the problem remains that the people they abused do not forget even if you destroy the record of it. (See the Irish for ones who don't forget)

 

[Funky Papa]

It should be noted that not all records were destroyed. There's still a significant amount of documents chronicling the Empire's activities in its African colonies, and they paint a picture of utter cruelty and carnage.

The abuses inflicted on the local population by colonial troops were easily on par with the methods of the Mau Mau.

 

[twobear]

Even if they destroyed evidence on their side, the problem remains that the people they abused do not forget even if you destroy the record of it. (See the Irish for ones who don't forget)

I guess they didn't count on some pesky savages going and remembering things.

There's a bigger window for plausible deniability if there's no paperwork.

 

[televator]

Can't let this little doozy get out.

 

[KillerMan91]

Pretty weird how differently British colonial crimes (and well probably all European colonial crimes) are viewed here compared to something like Japanese colonial crimes. Imagine if some japanese would come to thread about WWII crimes and said ''well it was still best empire ever'' or '' I'm proud as fuck''. Damn he would get shit for those comments (and for good reason).

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Pretty weird how differently British colonial crimes (and well probably all European colonial crimes) are viewed here compared to something like Japanese colonial crimes. Imagine if some japanese would come to thread about WWII crimes and said ''well it was still best empire ever'' or '' I'm proud as fuck''. Damn he would get shit for those comments (and for good reason).

Nationalism's funny like that.

 

[Miguel81]

Pretty weird how differently British colonial crimes (and well probably all European colonial crimes) are viewed here compared to something like Japanese colonial crimes. Imagine if some japanese would come to thread about WWII crimes and said ''well it was still best empire ever'' or '' I'm proud as fuck''. Damn he would get shit for those comments (and for good reason).

If you were Japanese, you would get shit. If you were German, you would get banned.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Ancient thread and I'm repeating myself, Groundhog Day much.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Nationalism's funny like that.

Nationalism is funny like that. People accusing Britain and and the British people of certain crimes committed before they were born by individuals who mostly operated out of the public view or accountability tends to make them defensive. It is nationalism like when those spokespeople for major powers accuse Britain of being corrupt when their own national history or future is not better. It's exactly that sort of raising of a common enemy that makes the crimes of nationalism possible.

If a Japanese person came here and said they were proud to be Japanese even with the crimes of the second world war it would not be offensive to me unless they said they were proud of the crimes in particular.

 

[Valhelm]

Pretty weird how differently British colonial crimes (and well probably all European colonial crimes) are viewed here compared to something like Japanese colonial crimes. Imagine if some japanese would come to thread about WWII crimes and said ''well it was still best empire ever'' or '' I'm proud as fuck''. Damn he would get shit for those comments (and for good reason).

Time and visibility has a lot to do with it. In the 1940s, Britain was not vivisecting prisoners of war.

 

[Toxi]

Horrifying, because it means that even with what we do know about the effects of colonialism, there are still some atrocities that we'll never know about.

This feels relevant:

Fantastic.

 

[YoungHav]

I thought last week we were praising European colonialism and how good it was for everyone?

 

[Kimawolf]

Nationalism is funny like that. People accusing Britain and and the British people of certain crimes committed before they were born by individuals who mostly operated out of the public view or accountability tends to make them defensive. It is nationalism like when those spokespeople for major powers accuse Britain of being corrupt when their own national history or future is not better. It's exactly that sort of raising of a common enemy that makes the crimes of nationalism possible.

If a Japanese person came here and said they were proud to be Japanese even with the crimes of the second world war it would not be offensive to me unless they said they were proud of the crimes in particular.

Im sorry but this is nuts. The country that committed the crimes should psy for them because they benrfited directly from said crimes. This same argument comes up in America with slavery, its not about the new gen paying for the old gen, its about the country paying for its crimes that DESTROYED a people almost completely, possibly driving them to eventual extinction. And left my people barely able to recover from generations if slavery, racism, a system designed to keep them mentally and financially repressed, and a hortid media representation which builds negative imagery. So yes the COUNTRY that did that should pay while acknowledging the bloody, horrible past. And it goes for th US, Germany, Britain, and anyone else.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nationalism is funny like that. People accusing Britain and and the British people of certain crimes committed before they were born by individuals who mostly operated out of the public view or accountability tends to make them defensive. It is nationalism like when those spokespeople for major powers accuse Britain of being corrupt when their own national history or future is not better. It's exactly that sort of raising of a common enemy that makes the crimes of nationalism possible.

If a Japanese person came here and said they were proud to be Japanese even with the crimes of the second world war it would not be offensive to me unless they said they were proud of the crimes in particular.

No, that's not a proper comparison. Not "proud to be Japanese," but "proud of what the Japanese empire accomplished before it collapsed."

 

[Ratrat]

What did the Japanese empire accomplish before it collapsed?

Edit:By the logic of some posts Germany and Japan were simply lttp.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What did the Japanese empire accomplish before it collapsed?

Edit:By the logic of some posts Germany and Japan were simply lttp.

Do you really think that's a huge stretch? I mean, you know something of what the United Kingdom and the other European powers did to their colonies in Asia, Africa, and the Americas, don't you?

 

[Laughing Banana]

So now the UK will have no right to speak about Japan committing "nuh uh we don't say sorry" policy in regards to its dark past, huh.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So now the UK will have no right to speak about Japan committing "nuh uh we don't say sorry" policy in regards to its dark past, huh.

Of course not! They still get to be proud and wax nostalgic for the empire on which the sun never set.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Under British rule Zimbabwe was one of the richest countries in the world and we brought education, healthcare and many other 'modern' advancements to a large chunk of the world.


Teach the heathens how to read and write and what do you get for it? nothing but grief.


Edit- although I do apologise for creating that whole 'Australia' thing, sorry.

Are you talking about the genocide in australia?

 

[poppabk]

Yeah and the fucking Normans(the French will do) probably owe us a packet.

But the Moors (Northern Africa) owes a shit load to Spain and France and Italy. Although the Germans ruled Spain when the moors invaded so it might take awhile to figure out just who is responsible. Then someone is gonna have to speak to the Mongols. And what about the egyptians, nubians persians, babylonians etc, they repeatedly invaded and colonized each other. It wouldn't make sense to force one brutal colonial empire to pay reparations to people who benefited from earlier brutal colonialism.

 

[Saintguine]

The fact that they destroyed the documents only really enforces the direness and weight of the crimes committed by the British Empire really. Plus we already know about the atrocities committed by the British Empire on not only the native population but other white colonists i.e the White Boers and Concentration Camps.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Im sorry but this is nuts. The country that committed the crimes should psy for them because they benrfited directly from said crimes. This same argument comes up in America with slavery, its not about the new gen paying for the old gen, its about the country paying for its crimes that DESTROYED a people almost completely, possibly driving them to eventual extinction. And left my people barely able to recover from generations if slavery, racism, a system designed to keep them mentally and financially repressed, and a hortid media representation which builds negative imagery. So yes the COUNTRY that did that should pay while acknowledging the bloody, horrible past. And it goes for th US, Germany, Britain, and anyone else.

We all benefit or suffer from all sorts of things done in the past in the name of something or other. One of the main causes for the second world war was that the German people were expected to pay the price of the first world war in full to victorious nations. Such unreasonable demands are in themselves crazy and unrealistic.

In the end who can be expected to pay for crimes. It is an old question. Genghis Khan conquered a large territory and brutally slaughtered many people and in the end said that he was obviously the punishment of God and that if people had not committed great sins then he would not have been sent to the world.

So what I am saying, even if it sounds nuts to you, is that the language that is used to justify great atrocities is almost exactly the same as the language of demanding justice for crimes committed by another group to your group.

 

[not_so_special]

Pretty weird how differently British colonial crimes (and well probably all European colonial crimes) are viewed here compared to something like Japanese colonial crimes. Imagine if some japanese would come to thread about WWII crimes and said ''well it was still best empire ever'' or '' I'm proud as fuck''. Damn he would get shit for those comments (and for good reason).

or nazi germany..yup thsi whole thing just show of much people are hipocrites

 

[dapperbandit]

colonies just mad they got rekt

sun never sets

 

[Kenka]

While on the other hand, they finally acknowledged the obvious :

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/w...-computer-pioneer-wins-royal-pardon.html?_r=0

RIP