And how about all those kids who survived the Sandy Hook massacre? Clearly school shootings are not a problem.
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Broward school district won't eliminate zero as a grade
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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And how about all those kids who survived the Sandy Hook massacre? Clearly school shootings are not a problem.
I disagree. There is a huge gap between "understanding" something and actually understanding it. Also, even just understanding it isn't enough, you need to be able to recall it without hesitation. the repetition is necessary. I've seen it first hand in the students I tutor for math. You need to practice, there is no way around that(This is also due to bad math teachers who don't actually explain why things work, they just tell them steps to follow). Homework also instills other good qualities.
That said, if a student is acing every test and only the homework is a problem, then I agree that the problem should be looked into and dealt with accordingly.
Good. The "everyone gets a juice box" mentality is annoying.
Don't do the work? Don't get credit. I had a bitch of a time getting through high school and I even dropped out for a few months because I chose to be an idiot rather than do what I needed to do. I came back, studied harder, did my homework and got through it while holding a job, paying bills and dealing with a family that was basically broken after a death in the family. It was hard. Life is hard sometimes. It would have been a lot harder for me if I was pushed through the system and let out into the world unprepared because my school wanted to look like they were doing their jobs.
Don't do the work? Don't get credit. I had a bitch of a time getting through high school and I even dropped out for a few months because I chose to be an idiot rather than do what I needed to do. I came back, studied harder, did my homework and got through it while holding a job, paying bills and dealing with a family that was basically broken after a death in the family. It was hard. Life is hard sometimes. It would have been a lot harder for me if I was pushed through the system and let out into the world unprepared because my school wanted to look like they were doing their jobs.
"Don't band-aid this," said Fort Lauderdale parent Nick Sakhnovsky. "We have to deal with reality, we have to do the hard stuff, we have to help the kids that are struggling."
This person deserves a medal. I'm not an educator, but I have many friends and relatives who are, and I often hear stories about parents that blame everyone for the student's failures except for the student.
This person deserves a medal. I'm not an educator, but I have many friends and relatives who are, and I often hear stories about parents that blame everyone for the student's failures except for the student.
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The Autumn Wind
Kids who don't turn in an assignment. But why give a zero for doing zero work? Clearly, they should get a 50. It's only fair.
I'm not allowed to give students a zero UNLESS a student does a test and literally gets 0 (which I've only seen happen once, it was kind of amazing). If a student doesn't complete work, they have more or less limitless chances to do make up assignments for the grade. I also can't penalize students for handing in assignments late, which means before term is up I get an avalanche of poorly done work in from the students who don't care and don't have parents who push them to care. Which is why homework is usually a waste of time, as the kids who have the drive (or parents driving them) will study even if nothing is assigned, and those who don't won't do it anyway. PLUS it's just more junk for me to mindless mark instead of trying to do something interesting and meaningful with them (and like with video game reviews no one gives a shit about comments, "what's the score?")
This proposal makes zero sense; glad to see it fail.
The point of reforming our school system is more than just improving HS graduation rates. If we inflate the grades so the drop out rate is lower what service are we doing to our kids?
The problem now is that very few students (aka none) graduating from high school have the skills necessary to work a job in which they can make it into the middle class. For those students that do want to get into the middle class they go get their bachelors degree, but our high school system is so poor that the majority of high school graduates do not have the qualifications to get into a state university...thus, the majority of high school graduates have to either navigate through the community college system or remain in the working class for the rest of their lives.
Inflating grades to artificially lower the drop-out rates does nothing to solve this problem.
The point of reforming our school system is more than just improving HS graduation rates. If we inflate the grades so the drop out rate is lower what service are we doing to our kids?
The problem now is that very few students (aka none) graduating from high school have the skills necessary to work a job in which they can make it into the middle class. For those students that do want to get into the middle class they go get their bachelors degree, but our high school system is so poor that the majority of high school graduates do not have the qualifications to get into a state university...thus, the majority of high school graduates have to either navigate through the community college system or remain in the working class for the rest of their lives.
Inflating grades to artificially lower the drop-out rates does nothing to solve this problem.
Are you sure it makes zero sense? Because to some that means it makes half sense.
Hahah, nice. If I was more clever I would have written my post as "50 sense".
You work for a shitty district/in a shitty community/in a shitty state.
Sorry to hear that.
It kind of sounds like they just wanted to make it easier for students to not fail, but I'll take a stab at arguing for making 50 the lowest grade.
On any given assignment in most classes, especially ones with more subjective grading, around 50% of the possible points are essentially for participation. It doesn't really make that much sense, if we want to give grades to students based on how well we think they understand the material, to give students a worse grade for simply not turning something in than for turning something in that reveals that they have no idea what they're doing.
Examples:
There are multiple-choice tests in science or history classes where the expected grade given totally random guessing is still 25%. It doesn't take any real mastery of the subject to eliminate one to two choices on a typical question, so getting half of the questions right is achievable even if a student is actually incredibly ignorant. Edit: Hell, I remember true/false assignments and even tests with substantial true/false components.
Essays that are turned in are basically graded on a 50-100 scale, or an even more restrictive one. You just don't see grades of 10 or 20 on essays even when they fail as essays in virtually every way imaginable. Having occasionally seen samples of undergraduate writing, I know for a fact that students are passing high school English courses without being able to put together a coherent paragraph.
So the idea is that zeros are just an arbitrarily worse grade than failing miserably - it takes a lot more good work after a zero to dig out of that hole than it takes to recover from "only" failing miserably, and it's not obvious why "didn't show up" deserves so much worse of a grade than "doesn't understand the subject at all".
I don't see how any of that leads to the conclusion of "They did no work, let's pass them"
Jest Chillin
Member
If they pass the test, why does busywork matter? School is education. The goal should be teaching, not training. Training should happen at the workplace.
I don't see how you're getting that conclusion from my post, so I guess we're even.
Sorry, I saw you said " I'll take a stab at arguing for making 50 the lowest grade." If 50 becomes the lowest grade, then everyone passes, no matter what they do, or don't do.
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The Autumn Wind
50 isn't passing, though 60 is, which means they could do minimal work and still pass.
Sorry, where I go to school a 50% is a pass. That and the quote "Parents and teachers said eliminating scores of zero through 49 was unfair because students who try but fail would earn the same score as those who turn nothing in." made me think it was the same there too.
Either way, getting half the grade on a homework assignment for doing literally nothing makes no sense.
and they shouldn't. how did this even get brought up as a possibility? no wonder our education system is in the gutter. the standards are lower than ever.
school isnt that hard. shit if you just show up and try that's good enough to pass these days. nevermind actually being able to perform to expectations. it's really fucking difficult to fail.
edit: i'm as big of a homework/busywork hater as anybody so I've gotten my fair share of zeroes for just not doing shit and i wouldnt dare fix my face to ask for anything otherwise. i tricked off an entire semester's work of math once other than the tests and i still got a C for the semester after they made me attend a mandatory session that'd bump me from an F to a C for basically sitting around doing nothing for 4 days. You know what my folks told the teacher? "I would've preffered it if you just failed him since that's what his work deserved." I can't disagree. our education system needs to be getting more difficult. not less.
i know folks have real life shit going on, but coddling them is not the answer.
school isnt that hard. shit if you just show up and try that's good enough to pass these days. nevermind actually being able to perform to expectations. it's really fucking difficult to fail.
edit: i'm as big of a homework/busywork hater as anybody so I've gotten my fair share of zeroes for just not doing shit and i wouldnt dare fix my face to ask for anything otherwise. i tricked off an entire semester's work of math once other than the tests and i still got a C for the semester after they made me attend a mandatory session that'd bump me from an F to a C for basically sitting around doing nothing for 4 days. You know what my folks told the teacher? "I would've preffered it if you just failed him since that's what his work deserved." I can't disagree. our education system needs to be getting more difficult. not less.
i know folks have real life shit going on, but coddling them is not the answer.
Nose Master
Member
Well, at least video game review scores will be actually comparable to letter grades, now.
sixteen-bit
Member
holy crap
How about we change homework. Everyday its late 10 points off the grade. I think this would be a fair compromise.
Or
Having a 30 period before the end of school to start or finish the homework you were assigned.
Im not against giving out zeros (hell in high school I got my fair share of them) but we need to give some leniency to help kids with bad home lives ir people that have to take care of their siblings till there mom comes home.
Or
Having a 30 period before the end of school to start or finish the homework you were assigned.
Im not against giving out zeros (hell in high school I got my fair share of them) but we need to give some leniency to help kids with bad home lives ir people that have to take care of their siblings till there mom comes home.
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