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[Gaspode_T]

Sigh...some day I need to start my own studio and put some Japanese workers to better use I would probably pay them better than $35K a year too or whatever the lowball industry average is these days. Maybe 10 years from now...

On a serious note, I would love to see apps that use Kinect for helping disabled people use computers more effectively. If Sony or some other company has their own technology for voice/gesture recognition they are fine to develop apps for that too, but for the meantime this seems a pretty decent shot at solving some problems interacting with PCs.

 

[brotkasten]

Even the ARM CEO admits that Windows 8 is superior and that Android on tablets is doomed.

Responding to an analyst's question about why consumers would buy Windows 8 tablets when Android tablet sales have been "disappointing," East cited Microsoft's brand recognition among consumers.

Microsoft's brand advantage: "Consumers are familiar with Microsoft and very familiar with Windows and they're less familiar with an Android environment. Microsoft has an awareness advantage with consumers that the Android folks didn't have," he said.

East continued. "It's up to Microsoft [and we'll see] how well they're going to exploit that advantage. But I think that's a fundamental difference."

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Even the ARM CEO admits that Windows 8 is superior

Where does he say this

and that Android on tablets is doomed.

Where does he say this

 

[brotkasten]

And now Windows 8 is doomed.

Microsoft is said to be contemplating a restricted desktop for Windows 8 ARM involving trusted certificates for ARM desktop applications. ARM tablets running Windows 8 are designed to be Microsoft's alternative to Apple's iPad, and the company is keen to ensure applications do not affect the battery life. Microsoft's Windows 8 Metro style work involves a number of measures to suspend applications cleanly, something not available for legacy applications. Desktop applications on Windows 8 ARM will likely be restricted to just Internet Explorer and Office, and we're hearing the Office team has put a lot of effort into Office 15 to ensure it is power efficient for ARM devices.

Microsoft demonstrated its early Office work on ARM chipsets last year, and the company's Windows planning and hardware chief Michael Angiulo, made it clear that "ARM isn't just for tablets," leaving it up to system builders to decide "what the next generation of PCs look like" while they "all have control of the Windows desktop." Don't expect to see ARM laptops and convertibles straight away though, Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang believes tablets will come first. We understand that Microsoft won't deviate from its desktop on ARM plan, but that any developers wishing to build ARM desktop apps might have a tricky time getting a signed certificate from the company.

http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2...ws-8-arm-desktop-app-restriction-certificates

smfh

 

[kehs]

I thought that was pretty clear from the onset about ARM?

e: wait, so there is going to be a "desktop" on ARM?

 

[Nero3000]

And now Windows 8 is doomed.


http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2...ws-8-arm-desktop-app-restriction-certificates

smfh

A rumor about a contemplation. Doomed indeed.

Can we at least wait until we see some ARM based devices in near final stages before making any prophecies?

 

[Zombie James]

Just give ARM the same functionality as any other version of Windows. Problem solved.

 

[Zabka]

And now Windows 8 is doomed.


http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2...ws-8-arm-desktop-app-restriction-certificates

smfh

Considering that their last position was zero ARM desktop apps, isn't this a step up?

 

[Nemo]

Should've kept ARM out to begin with

 

[JaggedSac]

Don't all apps sold on the marketplace have to be Metro anyway? And the only way to install on ARM is through the marketplace right? Because desktop apps on the marketplace are only links to installers I thought.

 

[giga]

The fact that they won't have a Metro version of Office is more disappointing.

I didn't even expect the traditional desktop to be shipped in the final ARM version. The fact that it'll only run IE and Office 15 is funny though. I'd like to see them explain that one to consumers.

 

[MercuryLS]

The fact that they won't have a Metro version of Office is more disappointing.

I didn't even expect the traditional desktop to be shipped in the final ARM version. The fact that it'll only run IE and Office 15 is funny though. I'd like to see them explain that one to consumers.

Does anyone really want a desktop version of Office/IE on an ARM-based tablet? Come on MS, stop being lazy and redesign these apps for touch interfaces. The worst thing they can do do is have some desktop apps and some metro apps on Win 8 tablets. It would be confusing to the end consumer.

 

[Windu]

Does anyone really want a desktop version of Office/IE on an ARM-based tablet? Come on MS, stop being lazy and redesign these apps for touch interfaces. The worst thing they can do do is have some desktop apps and some metro apps on Win 8 tablets. It would be confusing to the end consumer.

that is a very big project, shit takes time.

 

[giga]

Office for iPad and Office Metro. Bets on which team can ship first?

 

[MercuryLS]

that is a very big project, shit takes time.

I get that, but throwing a PC app onto a tablet isn't a good solution.

 

[Windu]

I get that, but throwing a PC app onto a tablet isn't a good solution.

better than nothing

 

[MercuryLS]

better than nothing

Not really as first impressions are everything, the average consumer isn't going to be impressed with Windows Office on their shiny new tablet. The last thing you want is to remind people of previous Windows tablets where the software wasn't a proper fit for touch interfaces. If I were MS I would hold off on including office until they have the metro version ready.

 

[Cheebo]

better than nothing

This sort of strategy is not one that will help them put a dent in the Apple monopoly of the Tablet PC market.

 

[Windu]

ok, you have a choice of using office on a tablet through the desktop, or not using it. How is that not better? Its fine until they release a completely redesigned Office.

 

[Cheebo]

ok, you have a choice of using office on a tablet through the desktop, or not using it. How is that not better? Its fine until they release a completely redesigned Office.

You can't do the "it's okay till we put out the better actual real thing" sort of attitude for Tablets. They have to fight for their lives to even get a sliver of that marketshare, it isn't like their traditional OS where they can do almost anything they want and sell it like crazy. Don't be surprised if come 2013 their tablet marketshare looks a lot like their smartphone marketshare today unless they step up their game to make it the best thing they have ever released.

 

[Windu]

well yeah they probably should have a completely redesigned office for 2012, but they don't. Sooo having the ability to use the Desktop Version on a tablet is better than not being able to use it at all.

 

[Vanillalite]

I know when the dates are but I would be fired if I told you so I won't LOL

All I can say is if you try next release and care about making something different you should take time to comment on that Building blog, they seem to be reading those pretty closely ('they' might include me so PMing me your thought might work as well)

Thanks for the reply. I've been using the dev preview since launch as my main desktop OS at home. I've made a few posts on their forums about a couple of issues I've had.

I'll keep that mind in terms of the building blog.

I just want to get to doing a clean install at home soon and hope the beta hits ASAP!!

 

[Cheebo]

well yeah they probably should have a completely redesigned office for 2012, but they don't. Sooo having the ability to use the Desktop Version on a tablet is better than not being able to use it at all.

Still, "good enough" isn't well, good enough for tablets. If it doesn't wow consumers on their first impression they will continue buying up iPad's like crazy for their tablet PC needs.

 

[brotkasten]

Considering that their last position was zero ARM desktop apps, isn't this a step up?

Unless the desktop gets a complete Metro makeover, the traditional desktop shouldn't be anywhere near a tablet.

that is a very big project, shit takes time.

Yeah, well, it's not like the Office team knew about the Metro style interface only after the dev preview was released. Work on 8 began about six months before 7 shipped, afaik. But hey, why bother with Windows 8, when ...

Office for iPad and Office Metro. Bets on which team can ship first?

we know which platform is more important to the team.

 

[Divvy]

I would rather have Office than no office and I'm sure anyone that would have used office on a tablet would agree.

 

[brotkasten]

I would rather have Office than no office and I'm sure anyone that would have used office on a tablet would agree.

Well, Ribbon makes it easier to use on a touch screen, definitely. But I'm more talking about switching between Aero and Metro. It just doesn't mix well. I'm already annoyed that the control panel is now a metro app and takes up an entire monitor, even though it has nothing to do with the rest I'm doing on my PC.

I don't want to see any of this:

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Microsoft should really consider either switching entirely to metro, even for desktop (it's impossible, I know) or completely leaving metro off of the desktop. I don't mind switching between metro apps/start screen and desktop, but seeing metro elements meshed with aero windows is really jarring.

 

[dLMN8R]

And now Windows 8 is doomed.


http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2...ws-8-arm-desktop-app-restriction-certificates

smfh

What? Before this, everyone thought that the Desktop was going to be gone completely from ARM. How are they now "doomed" because of this rumor?

 

[Steelyuhas]

And now Windows 8 is doomed.


http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2...ws-8-arm-desktop-app-restriction-certificates

smfh

I was under the impression that ARM wouldn't have desktop at all.

Either way, it seems that ARM is more trouble than anything. I certainly won't be looking at getting an ARM device.

 

[dLMN8R]

Why do people keep saying "Switching between metro and the desktop"?

You're not "switching". You didn't "switch" between the Desktop and the Start Menu either. The Start screen is simply a start menu replacement, which happens to also have a lot more functionality.

 

[Robobandit]

Why do people keep saying "Switching between metro and the desktop"?

You're not "switching". You didn't "switch" between the Desktop and the Start Menu either. The Start screen is simply a start menu replacement, which happens to also have a lot more functionality.

They say switch because with metro based apps, it creates 2 separate application ecosystems on the same machine.

Some people think the "switch" between Metro and classic applications will be jarring and not user friendly.

In Windows 7 and earlier, the start menu was just a way to launch applications.. it didn't have any "applications" of its own.

 

[brotkasten]

Why do people keep saying "Switching between metro and the desktop"?

You're not "switching". You didn't "switch" between the Desktop and the Start Menu either. The Start screen is simply a start menu replacement, which happens to also have a lot more functionality.

When it takes up my entire fucking main screen, I'm well allowed to say that I'm switching between those styles. Same with FS apps.

e: All I need from my start menu is the search bar. No need to fill my entire screen with a solid BG color and tiles.

 

[kehs]

Why do people keep saying "Switching between metro and the desktop"?

You're not "switching". You didn't "switch" between the Desktop and the Start Menu either. The Start screen is simply a start menu replacement, which happens to also have a lot more functionality.

Use the dev preview....you are definitely switching.

 

[Robobandit]

Use the dev preview....you are definitely switching.

He does work for Microsoft.. he's probably seen versions of win 8 that we have not..

Will have to check out the upcoming public beta and see if things are less jarring than they were in the dev preview..

 

[MrBig]

Why do people keep saying "Switching between metro and the desktop"?

You're not "switching". You didn't "switch" between the Desktop and the Start Menu either. The Start screen is simply a start menu replacement, which happens to also have a lot more functionality.

The metro design philosophy does not mesh with the old 95-W7 UI design.

Apart from that, the metro interface that is called up by pressing the start button is not a start menu in the same sense as the current iteration. It is is it's own thing, with its own functionality, running in parallel to the traditional desktop.

It's quite a switch.

 

[dLMN8R]

He does work for Microsoft.. he's probably seen versions of win 8 that we have not..

Will have to check out the upcoming public beta and see if things are less jarring than they were in the dev preview..

That's exactly what I'm getting at - not necessarily that things have substantially changed, but rather that the only thing people seem pissed about is the transition animation.

If fixing the animation would make things "less jarring", thereby fixing the problem, was there really even a problem in the first place?

The only thing that matters is how quickly and efficiently you can do something. The start screen is as instant-fast as the start menu, and at the same time, it's far more useful too.

 

[brotkasten]

That's exactly what I'm getting at - not necessarily that things have substantially changed, but rather that the only thing people seem pissed about is the transition animation.

If fixing the animation would make things "less jarring", thereby fixing the problem, was there really even a problem in the first place?

The only thing that matters is how quickly and efficiently you can do something. The start screen is as instant-fast as the start menu, and at the same time, it's far more useful too.

Yeah, because that's exactly what I was talking about. The transition animation is making things jarring. Yes.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

That's exactly what I'm getting at - not necessarily that things have substantially changed, but rather that the only thing people seem pissed about is the transition animation.

It's not the animation (I haven't even noticed any animation, tbh), it's just that right now Windows 8 consists of two completely different environments: classic one and metro. And with or without animation, it looks like you are constantly switching between those two environments. Animation has nothing to do with this, graphics and UI has. For example, clicking RMB on a GUI element (icon, background, toolbar etc.) opens menu in classic apps and desktop, on Start Screen RMB selects the tile and shows additional options on the bottom of the screen. The same action brings two differently looking results depending on whether you're using metro app/start screen or classic desktop.

In Windows prior to Win8 GUI is consistent across the entire system, both visually and functionally. In Win8, not so much.

 

[kehs]

Yeah, because that's exactly what I was talking about. The transition animation is making things jarring. Yes.

lol

If the only thing they took from people bitching about the desktop is that the animation isn't smooth....well then I guess MS hasn't changed as much as I was hoping.

 

[Damon Bennet]

They should just slap a skin on the desktop to make it look more in line with metro.
I think ribbon could even be semi-good looking in metro.

 

[Divvy]

They should just slap a skin on the desktop to make it look more in line with metro.
I think ribbon could even be semi-good looking in metro.

They should do this regardless. The old desktop just looks so antiquated in comparison. Or at least give users an option to switch between a new metro theme vs the old them at installation or something.

 

[MrBig]

They should just slap a skin on the desktop to make it look more in line with metro.
I think ribbon could even be semi-good looking in metro.

Looking at the W8 server shots, that is what they are going to be doing for the traditional desktop.
But is just a skin with metro styling. Metro itself is a design philosophy that completely conflicts with the legacy UI.

 

[kehs]

iOS users will love this, can't view plugins? Load up another browser!

http://mobile.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/2/1/2763704/windows-8-metro-browser-plugins-prompt

 

[brotkasten]

So, the start button is gone from the task bar.

What?

From what we understand, the super bar from Windows 7 remains modestly in place. The understanding is that the bar now becomes a place to pin applications (which you can already do) but that it will become more necessary than previously. Essentially, you will want to pin your most used, non-metro apps to the superbar for quick access without jumping to the metro UI.

But what about that start button, how will I get to Metro? From what we were told if you place your mouse in the left bottom corner, the orb will appear. Additionally, there are other actions to initiate the charm bar by placing your mouse in the corners too. Upfront, we heard that this is a great change.

A bit of confusions, mostly because of translation issues, but it was stated that the Charm Bar is used to launch the Metro UI. I would not take this to mean that the classic start menu is there but that it is an additional way to launch the interface, cool?

 

[jagowar]

That is actually a good change from the tablet perspective.... the classic desktop should be treated as essentially a vm (which is what that looks like) and they should use the charm bar to get back to the start. Makes it feel more consistent than clicking the start button like we are all used to and get the metro start screen popup.

Now that will suck horribly for those who want to primarily use the classic desktop.

 

[DcLevartho]

That is a beautiful thing, do you have any more info on that?

 

[clav]

So, the start button is gone from the task bar.

What?

http://i.imgur.com/6gpSq.jpg

Interesting to note.

Winners of the BUILD contest were promised a new Windows 8 build today.

That screenshot might be legit.

 

[Windu]

.

 

[Divvy]

I hope they update all the icons to have a more metro themed look. That uglyass yellow windows explorer icon desperately needs to look more stylish.

 

[brotkasten]

I hope they update all the icons to have a more metro themed look. That uglyass yellow windows explorer icon desperately needs to look more stylish.

We still have icons from XP in Windows 7, it took them like a century to create a new dialogue for fonts and you're expecting a complete makeover three years after Windows 7? Heh, funny.