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[Foliorum Viridum]

Man, that is retarded. No wonder devs put out massive patches and then never release ones to fix smaller problems if that's the case.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

That's absolutely true. Steam on day one was significantly worse than GFWL today... of course, Steam on day one was also significantly worse than Steam today, so I'm not really sure that the angle is for the comparison.

For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:

Perfect post is perfect.

 

[PantherAttacks]

Another game falls victim to Microsoft's abortive attempts to bolster PC gaming...

 

[Grayman]

When I was playing Fallout 3 a lot GFWL would fail to log in and I would have to exit out of the game to try to log in again. The only way to save a password also requires doing so for msn messenger.

At the best of times GFWL is a slow overlay that I am required to use each time I run the game. The "service" offers me nothing.

 

[Sh1ner]

To put stuff in perspective, I haven't used the new steam overlay until a few days ago, pld counterstrike source, this game is what? 4 years old and it has had massive updates since the last time I played.

I know its not the same as this is a valve game and valve updates every bloody game they have done on source every other week... but I was shocked.

Behold when I shift tab and I notice the steam overlay does fucking tabbed browsing for the internet. I don't think in a million years MS would provide such support for GFWL. Steam is recieving updates at such an insane pace compared to others in the field. Its why I aint happy Epic/EA/whoever went for GFWL.

I am now back on CSS (its been about a year since the last time I played), anyone want to play with/against me I will be on the Teeside office only server kicking butt and taking names. Online handle: Shiner

 

[klee123]

I'll wait for when it hits $5 on steam. Thanks Epic!

 

[Burekma]

God fucking dammit. This was one of the main reasons why I wanted MSs "PC gaming resurrection" to not be just another marketing fad. I just knew that, sooner or later, a game I'm highly anticipating is going to be forced into the service and I'll have to deal with the piss poor state it's at.

Fuck the retard that's responsible for this and fuck Microsoft for not substantially improving GFWL.

UUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!

 

[Hixx]

I don't mind. Never had any real problems with GFWL though obviously it's not exactly ideal as Steam is so, so much better. But I'll be getting this still.

 

[Goon Boon]

Ever since Gears of War didn't even ship with usable text chat (you had to use the ue3 say command via console and it disappeared instantly without fading out after about 3 seconds), I've considered Epic Games an Xbox dev who occassionally has their titles ported to pc.

 

[Zizbuka]

That's absolutely true. Steam on day one was significantly worse than GFWL today... of course, Steam on day one was also significantly worse than Steam today, so I'm not really sure that the angle is for the comparison.

For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:
- Profile issues. Signing in on a profile on Xbox 360 (or booting up a 360 if the profile is set to auto sign-in) will kick you out of a game on GFWL. This is true, of course, with Steam on multiple computers (or MSN or a lot of other user profile things), but it's much more likely to be triggered in a 2+ person household with a 360 and a PC.

I think that's exactly the point; Steam has steadily improved, as any software should. GFWL just treads water.

And I use Steam on 3 PCs all the time, using offline mode. I don't think there's an 'offline' option in GFWL.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I don't get the GFWL hate. Has always worked fine for me. I think people don't remember what a mess Steam was when it launched. Much worse than GFWL currently.

Well if you're comparing services as they were at launch then GFWL charged people money to play online, and was also a buggy piece of shit.

For all the people saying "I have no idea what anyone is complaining about", here are the major issues with GFWL:

You missed all of GFWLs savegame related problems too;
- most saves are encrypted so you can only use your actual savegame while connected to GFWL, which is not a million miles away from Ubisofts much derided 'you must always be online to play this game' DRM. Especially when GFWL has got a really shitty login server that sometimes goes down and wont let you login even though you can be signed in on hotmail / MSN / XBL simultaneously
- Some saves are not only profile encrypted but machine encrypted, so if you get a new computer or reformat your OS you cannot access your savegame. At all.

 

[TheOctagon]

Zero problems with GFWL for me.

Says the man who's had no problems yet.

I was much the same until I tried to play Resident Evil 5 in a precious half an hour, was told it needed an update and foolishly agreed. Then the bar goes nowhere for five minutes, chugs to half-full, restarts for reasons known only to itself and then vanishes, leaving me at the game's title screen. I go to play and it reminds me I need a profile to save the game (which a few minutes earlier I was signed in to), so I sign in again and trigger the exact same update loop, only this time it boots me out of the game entirely and into an equally botched update and troubleshooting procedure in my browser.

All this from a service that isn't exactly essential.

 

[subversus]

*a wall of text*

An excellent post! I'll bookmark it for further use.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Are Bulletstorm and Fable 3 the only GFWL titles slated for next year?

I'm sure Codemasters will ride that train until it derails and plows into a mountainside.

 

[Sectus]

As someone who IS annoyed with Steam (I run it rarely enough that most times I run it I have to update it, keeping a browser integrated with it is insanely stupid and probably the main reason it takes so much ram, I can't change where games are installed, and it keeps downloading random stuff without asking my permission), I find GFWL to be quite okay. I've never run into any issues in using it. The only really big annoyance I have with GFWL isn't directly related to me as customer, but it's all the stupid limitations Microsoft enforces on developers. Like the meaningless player/ranked split in matchmaking. Or the 3 week long certification on patches (and how publishers need to pay for it). The 8KB/s limit on bandwidth for netcode. And the 5mb limit on patches.

 

[spats]

Good to know. I'll pass on it now.

 

[CiSTM]

nvm. read the whole thread. Will still buy 'cos more then once GAF has been bitching about something that really isn't huge deal in the end. I'll try it out myself until I knock it off.

 

[Dilly]

I just hope Dirt 3 won't be GFWL anymore.

 

[plagiarize]

GFWL has never prevented me from enjoying a game. I HAVE had issues with purchasing a game from the store though, but when I've bought a game on disk or from steam that was GFWL it's never been an issue.

it's not ideal or anything, there are a bunch of things i'd change or like to see change about it, but i don't see any reason to skip a game i'm interested in when it didn't stop me enjoying Dirt 2, or Batman, or RE5, or Dead Rising 2.

did it make them better? not really, but it doesn't make me rage.

 

[BloodySinner]

As someone who IS annoyed with Steam (I run it rarely enough that most times I run it I have to update it, keeping a browser integrated with it is insanely stupid and probably the main reason it takes so much ram, I can't change where games are installed, and it keeps downloading random stuff without asking my permission), I find GFWL to be quite okay. I've never run into any issues in using it. The only really big annoyance I have with GFWL isn't directly related to me as customer, but it's all the stupid limitations Microsoft enforces on developers. Like the meaningless player/ranked split in matchmaking. Or the 3 week long certification on patches (and how publishers need to pay for it). The 8KB/s limit on bandwidth for netcode. And the 5mb limit on patches.

Yes, you can. Recently just had it install games on my second drive.

 

[Karram]

Atleast I hope it will be released with an editor. I'd love to create some BS mods.

 

[Kittonwy]

- GFWL is not free for developers, Steamworks is totally 100% free.

- Ongoing support. Compare Valve's record and Microsoft's record on improving their products on PC and innovating features on PC. If Microsoft launches the Xbox 720, will they drop GFWL again? They laid off most of the team at one point and cancelled in-progress PC ports and didn't greenlight anything new for ages. I don't doubt the sincerity of Microsoft's current commitment (just like I don't doubt the sincerity of their current commitment to IE, for example), but there's nothing stopping them from just cutting and running when corporate priorities shift, and there's virtually no chance of that happening with Valve. I don't think this will involve, say, discontinuing activation servers or closing up shop, but I do think this will involve periods of stagnation if the product is not given favoured son status. Also, remember that Microsoft tried unsuccessfully to charge money for multiplayer on PC. While I commend them for fixing that error, I don't think there's anything precluding them from trying again in the future--they discontinued it because it was unpopular, not because they recognized that it was a bad idea. Valve will never charge for multiplayer

Now, the advantages of GFWL:
- You get to buy things using Microsoft points. This isn't actually an advantage, because you can use a scrip system on Steam, you have more payment options on Steam than on GFWL, the sale benefit of being able to accumulate cheap points for MS purchases is more than eclipsed by Steam's more aggressive sales, etc.

- You earn achievements that earn Microsoft gamerscore. Of course there are still achievements on Steam, Valve offers developers more flexibility with implementing, changing, and adding them, and nothing is really different. Is this an advantage? Yes, for people who care about their gamerscore. But really it boils down to "We're Microsoft, bitch" and I'm not sure how the 360 version doesn't cover that.

- You get to message back and forth with your Microsoft friends. Is this an advantage? It is if most of your friends are on the 360. It isn't if most of your friends are on Steam. If your friends are on both, it's neither an advantage nor a disadvantage, although personally I prefer Steam chat to MS messages, because I can continue the conversation when I finish playing the game I'm playing.

What all three advantages have in common is that they're all "If you love Microsoft and want to surround yourself with Microsoft's version of everything, use Microsoft Games for Windows Live for your Microsoft needs". Which is fine, but you guys should consider that all of those Microsoft things are true for the 360 version, and if this game didn't use GFWL, you guys would buy the 360 version. That's totally cool and all, but since you were going to buy the Microsoft version regardless, the rest of us are stuck with the disadvantages and don't necessarily make use of these advantages!

GFWL was basically MS's attempt to extend XBL to PCs to monetize online gaming, I'm not surprised they still haven't given up on this given they can see how successful Steam has become, I suppose they have enough cash to keep taking on Steam, and I'm sure somebody will put forth the premise that competition breeds innovation and that GFWL's existence is somehow justified, but I just wish MS would simply give up the idea of what is essentially XBL on PC, it's already been rejected once.

 

[Durante]

IMHO Steam is still significantly worse than it could (and should) be, so I'm happy it has some well-funded competition. One thing I find hard to swallow about Steam is that they're making money hand over fist but still can't seem to afford decent bandwidth, at least here in Europe. The very best I ever get out of Steam is 2MB/s with it usually hovering around 1MB/s, while pretty much every other service I've used (EADM, Impulse, gog, ...) maxes out my connection.

 

[Struct09]

I'm fine with this, I've enjoyed having GFWL with single-player PC games (can talk to my XBL friends + achievements). Luckily I haven't had any problems with the service.

 

[zlatko]

I hate this game solely for the reason that they are putting the Gears 3 beta codes in the limited edition of it.

February was supposed to be all about Marvel vs Capcom 3 and Killzone 3 for me. I know the 3DS is going to be around February-April, and I don't have the cash to throw it away on 3 games in one month. I have very little interest in Bstorm itself, but there is NO WAY I want to miss out on the Gears of War 3 beta, because I was one of the people who bitched hard before Gears 2 for them to have one for 2, and bitched even harder after 2 for them to have one for 3.

I wish EPIC would announce the other ways you can get into the Gears 3 beta or if Bstorm LE will be the only way. If no announcements are made, then MvC3 will be the game taking the bulllet and become a game I pick up later on used/on sale.

No Steam version of a PC game is idiotic in this day and age. It's like trying to sell it with a turd inside the box encasing the disc itself.

 

[jediyoshi]

Trailer on Gametrailers also shows the GFWL logo on it, and BigDownload are saying Epic confirmed its used for the PC version.

 

[subversus]

No Steam version of a PC game is idiotic in this day and age. It's like trying to sell it with a turd inside the box encasing the disc itself.

there will be a Steam "version". But no Steamworks there.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

I'm fine with this, I've enjoyed having GFWL with single-player PC games (can talk to my XBL friends + achievements). Luckily I haven't had any problems with the service.

True but the MP part of the game makes it unplayable if your used to pc standards like seeing your ping and joining a server.......

 

[Cowie]

Cue me not feeling bad about wanting the 360 version despite having a capable pc.

 

[RiverBed]

Why is the title saying 'to use' GfWL? Shouldn't it be 'available on' as in a DD store just like if you were to say 'available on Steam' for instance, or am I missing something with GfWL?
I really don't know anything about GfWL except that it is a DD store (like other DD stores?).

 

[MjFrancis]

I would say that this has killed my interest in this game, but only the PC version. I no longer see myself picking up Bulletstorm for $10 at the Steam sale next Christmas.

 

[dofry]

the majority of epic's fanbase at this moment in time is more familiar with live achievements and a live friends list.

There's no reason for them not to support GFWL.

Does anyone have proof that MS pays people to use GFWL?
Cause I would think that it's more likely that Epic has to pay MS a licensing fee for use of their servers, their client, and their advertising structure.

And why is that? Because MS happened.

There is no need for GFWL. "Someone" is doing it better and gfwl brings nothing to the table.

 

[Acosta]

Good, see you at 2011 sales.

 

[Mrbob]

I don't understand the comments about when MS puts their mind to it they can be successful. Make no mistake about it, while MS did a lot of good things on 360 the only reason they are really successful is because Sony screwed the pooch with the PS3 from day one. Before day one actually. 599 US DOLLARS an giant enemy grab are a corner stone of jokes to this day. Sony became cocky and got burned. If Sony had come out firing MS success would have been a lot more limited. The problem with people thinking PC gamers will switch to GFWL if it gets better is the fact we already use Steam and it is awesome. Only way GFWL makes head room is if Valve screws up so badly it makes people want to switch.

Depends on how you use it. For example, want to patch your game? First patch is free. Next patch is thousands of dollars. I believe initial releases have to go through cert, which also costs money, as well. As far as I know, matchmaking remains free for developers. Someone who has experience making a game with GFWL can clarify.

Valve charges $0 for Steamworks, $0 for using any feature of Steamworks, $0 for issuing new content, $0 for issuing two thousand five hundred patches, etc.

Since Epic is so important to the success of the Xbox platform with huge Gears numbers, it is possible MS gives Epic a sweat heart deal where they don't have to pay for updates.

GFWL would work better if we could have a PC friends list tab separate from the Xbox Live friends list. 100 friend limit on both we could access on either PC or 360. When I have the possibility of playing online with about 100 people on my Steam friend list having about 5 or less who game on PC on Xbox Live friend list is limiting.

 

[ArjanN]

I don't really have a problem with GFWL, especially in a game I'm most likely only going to be playing single-player anyway.

 

[Davidion]

The game has some potential, it looks like it could be good dumb fun.

As for GFWL, it's just an annoyance to shut the overlay off. For every game that I have that used it it's been either completely useless or at worse, an awkward inconvenience.

Didn't even know that it has technical issues. :lol

 

[Visualante]

I just hope Dirt 3 won't be GFWL anymore.

It will Codemasters are really out of touch with the PC audience. They're one of the last holdouts that I've identified.

 

[Demigod Mac]

My experience playing Batman Arkham Asylum on GFWL:

Launch game
Enter serial key
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game again
Enter serial key (wat?)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game YET AGAIN
Enter serial key (OK, what the hell)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

<head explodes>

Launch game
Enter serial key (fffffffff.....)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Play game.

 

[Stallion Free]

It will Codemasters are really out of touch with the PC audience. They're one of the last holdouts that I've identified.

Which is weird because they are one dev who continually supports DX11 in a significant way.

 

[Draft]

GFWL sucks as a store and as a service, but otherwise, I've found it relatively harmless. It never really got in the way of playing Street Fighter IV, Bioshock 2 or Warhammer 40k.

 

[ArjanN]

Why is the title saying 'to use' GfWL? Shouldn't it be 'available on' as in a DD store just like if you were to say 'available on Steam' for instance, or am I missing something with GfWL?
I really don't know anything about GfWL except that it is a DD store (like other DD stores?).

It's both a store and a service, in the same way you have both Steam and Steamworks titles.

 

[JADS]

So I take it the game has no dedicated server support ?

 

[X26]

not all that surprising given the relationship between the two, what is surprising is that hideous box art

Not really looking forward to any sort of multiplayer (does this game even have mp?) and if it can't authenticate I wouldn't feel too bad about cracking a game I legitimately paid for.

MP is a huge component of the game

 

[Emitan]

I guess I'll wait a year from now, buy it for $5, and crack it to remove GFWL just so I can play it. I basically have to be one step away from piracy before the game is enjoyable. But then again, I wasn't really interested in the first place so I might just skip it entirely, no matter what the price is. I'm starting to get tired of shooters.

 

[MikeE21286]

yuck....oh well. Not too interested any ways...

 

[Angelus Errare]

My experience playing Batman Arkham Asylum on GFWL:

Launch game
Enter serial key
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game again
Enter serial key (wat?)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game YET AGAIN
Enter serial key (OK, what the hell)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

<head explodes>

Launch game
Enter serial key (fffffffff.....)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Play game.

This x900, shit is dumb.

 

[erpg]

GFWL sucks as a store and as a service, but otherwise, I've found it relatively harmless. It never really got in the way of playing Street Fighter IV, Bioshock 2 or Warhammer 40k.

What about when the 360/GFWL codec update crashed multiplayer games? Patch to fix it had to go through MS Cert. Took a while. :lol

 

[1-D_FTW]

My experience playing Batman Arkham Asylum on GFWL:

Launch game
Enter serial key
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game again
Enter serial key (wat?)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

Launch game YET AGAIN
Enter serial key (OK, what the hell)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Install patch
Exit game

<head explodes>

Launch game
Enter serial key (fffffffff.....)
Sign in to GFWL
Agree Agree Agree
Play game.

I had this happen to me with Fuel (maybe made worse because there was a memory leak causing me to crash within a minute (finally nailed down to audigy sound)). I entered the serial an absurd amount before I was finally able to complete a race and get a save file and end this idiotic loop. Brain Stew assures that there's isn't an activation limit, so I hope not. I'd be close if there is.

 

[FLEABttn]

Activation limits made no sense under the "the cd-key is tied to your account and your account can only be used on 1 Live device at a time" construct.

Their in game client didn't properly support my widescreen monitor from 2007-sometime over the summer this year. It would draw the GUI right but "click" areas were near the GUI boxes, so If I wanted to click on a box, I'd have to drag my mouse around it until it lit up.

I'm surprised Stumpokapow didn't mention locked saves. My old computer died back in July, 30 hours into Fallout 3. No biggy, I anticipated the issue because it was acting up and I backed up my save to an external hard drive. Except that it was locked to my old computer and refused to load once I had reinstalled the game. 30 hours down the drain.

I literally threw your game away, Bethesda, because of that bullshit. It is sitting, crushed, in a dump somewhere because of your shit retarded decision to use GFWL.

 

[Emitan]

What about when the 360/GFWL codec update crashed multiplayer games? Patch to fix it had to go through MS Cert. Took a while. :lol

Not to mention the fact that there's no voice chat in Shadowrun (which they just promoted 2 weeks ago!!!) because they borked the audio codecs. Well I'm sure the developers can just...oh wait. Microsoft canned them.