cutmeamango
Banned
Guess I'll repeat myself from another topic.
Me said:
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Bullies jailed over suicide
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Good.
I hope those who take part in emotional bullying also get served for it. Bullying is something no one should go through either physically or verbally
Have to give some major props to you for this story. Excellent work, good sir.
astroturfing
Member
bullies shouldn't be jailed, it's something they can boast about later to their other asshole friends.
they should get mandatory psychological treatment, locked up in a mental hospital until they've learned to change their behavior. no one boasts about being in a mental hospital.
they should get mandatory psychological treatment, locked up in a mental hospital until they've learned to change their behavior. no one boasts about being in a mental hospital.
Woody Invincible
Banned
ITT, we learn who all were bullied in school, and didn't fight back.
AzureNightmare
Banned
You sound like you have a problem with people who are unwilling to retaliate, if that's the case then I have a problem with you.
You are part of the problem. You are assuming things that should not be assumed. Easy as that.
Alpha-Bromega
Member
wanna fight about it
astroturfing
Member
what the fuck
how do you fight back against dozens or more? in my school one particular handicapped kid was bullied by literally hundreds of other kids.
Great, sounds like in this particular instance that jail time is the appropriate response. Not every case of someone being bullied will require jail time of course and where you draw that line is up to the court system to figure out, not me, but this case must have been fairly easy to determine.
No, I think this sets an important precedent. One that someone will be held responsible for the entirety of their actions, not just a small part of them. Their bullying lead directly to a suicide and they should be punished for it. Other crimes are punished in this way, it's just never been done for this set of circumstances before.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
100% agree. The minimum for me would be at least 15 years.
How is bullying someone to the point of suicide not dangerous?
I think the precedent is uncomfortable. Their actions as described in the article easily qualify as assault and harassment and justify jail time on their own. The idea that it only became wrong when the victim committed suicide doesn't sit well with me.
Obviously they were committing criminal actions before hand, but in these cases actions like those are hardly ever prosecuted because the victim doesn't feel like he or she would have the support of the school/legal system. So bullies get to assault other people because those people are too afraid to come forward and call it assault.
I agree, their previous actions were criminal as well, but what came of their actions and the punishment for that takes into account their previous actions. In fact, in my mind, 3 years is a bit too lenient.
WorriedCitizen
Member
What were the charges? I'm fine with them getting punished for the abuse. A punishment for the suicide however (manslaughter or whatever) would open a can of worms tho.
HyperCubed4
Member
I don't think they should have been punished MORE than they should have. It's obviously not intentional. I mean, obviously they wanted to pick on the kid, but they probably didn't want him to kill himself.
I WOULD be saying that in most cases, except I can't get past the fact that they made him eat his lunch off the floor and physically abused him. So yeah, 5 years would be adequate, I think. Stupid, stupid children.
I WOULD be saying that in most cases, except I can't get past the fact that they made him eat his lunch off the floor and physically abused him. So yeah, 5 years would be adequate, I think. Stupid, stupid children.
My question is this.
Let's say that a "bully" says something very simple. Maybe they tell another kid that his clothes are crappy. What if the "victim" decides to do something drastic to his/herself off of that? I guess what I'm wondering is, will we get to a point that kids are being charged over the smallest of things? What is trivial to me, may be the world to you. How do we gauge whether a kid killing them-self was started by something worth sending a kid to jail for?
Let's say that a "bully" says something very simple. Maybe they tell another kid that his clothes are crappy. What if the "victim" decides to do something drastic to his/herself off of that? I guess what I'm wondering is, will we get to a point that kids are being charged over the smallest of things? What is trivial to me, may be the world to you. How do we gauge whether a kid killing them-self was started by something worth sending a kid to jail for?
POWERSPHERE
Member
They go in damaged, come out ruined. Job done.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
AzureNightmare
Banned
Fuck that, make an example out of those little pukes.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Nah dude, just get your dad or father figure of choice to spend half an hour showing you how to box in the garage, hit the head bully in the face a few times and he'll develop respect for you and leave you along forever
Vermillion
Banned
Suicide is always a person's choice, so no, the bullies didn't "cause" the suicide (they certainly had a hand in the mental state of the kid, though.
But bullying should be prosecuted in the future. How, exactly? IDK, but it's something to think about...
HyperCubed4
Member
In this case, I would say it set a good precedent. They beat their classmate. That alone should be grounds for assault. Bullying that lead up to the student killing himself? That should count as manslaughter, in one way or another.
Like I said. I would not have minded if they just spewed insults at the kid like bullies do. But to beat him up and essentially torture the kid at school is going too far. I'm not saying that bullies should not be punished for saying mean words to another student, because that would be a form of harassment. However, what they did is pretty terrible.
To sum up: make an example out of those little pukes.
Just because it's a persons choice doesn't mean they weren't coerced into making the choice under extreme duress.
I hear what you're saying in regards to this case. But outside of it.
If I tell you that you stink and you go home and kill yourself, am I to be charged with that? I understand it's a bit over-the-top. But maybe a simple interaction like that could be the breaking point, and that could have been the first that I personally ever said anything to you.
I think bullies should be punished. Sadly good intentions get skewed as time goes on.
HyperCubed4
Member
Jailing them? Seriously. If a kid is getting bullied and he tells a teacher, the bully is going to know who snitched on him/her and proceed to bully that child further. If the bully gets detention, they won't stop. That kid's going to get even more angry. That's how bullies are. Prosecution should be the only step. Not house arrest. Good lord, not house arrest. Put the little brat in juvie.
For bullying. If they push the kid to suicide, arrest them. Odds are that they didn't single-handedly push him to suicide, but if they did have a hand in it, they should be arrested.
Agreed. That's an extreme example, but you make a good point. There has to be a line as to what qualifies as "bullying". One little comment like that shouldn't be considered bullying. Telling another student to kill themselves, even once... I think that's a different situation.
entremet
Member
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I read this the wrong way, haha.
Vermillion
Banned
In the end the decision is yours, and only yours, though.
I'm of the belief that for every person who has killed themselves, there is at least one person who has lived through worse.
And in regards to my earlier musing, sure, jail them, but at what level? What exactly are we considering bullying? Mean names - are we sending people to jail for that? Or merely bullying of the physical kind? And to what extent? Certainly what these children did is worthy of jail, but are we saving jail only for bullying at a similar level?
... I actually can't think of any quintessentially bullying activities that aren't crimes, and the only reason they aren't treated as such is because there are people (see Loofy's post for a good example of the attitude, with an ugly dose of self-justification) who think "Well, kids will be kids" and thereby protect bullies and facilitate more bullying.
I don't think that a retroactive punishing of bullies after the kid is already dead is the only thing that should be done - proactive measures including modeling standing up for bullied kids as an adult (as opposed to ignoring it), making clear both verbally and in one's actions that bullying isn't tolerated, etc. has been shown to make it more likely for kids who are observers to not pile on with the initial bully and to be more likely to help stand up for the victim. It wouldn't stop the issue, but there'd be less of it.
And fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.
I don't think that a retroactive punishing of bullies after the kid is already dead is the only thing that should be done - proactive measures including modeling standing up for bullied kids as an adult (as opposed to ignoring it), making clear both verbally and in one's actions that bullying isn't tolerated, etc. has been shown to make it more likely for kids who are observers to not pile on with the initial bully and to be more likely to help stand up for the victim. It wouldn't stop the issue, but there'd be less of it.
And fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.
HyperCubed4
Member
In regards to your suicide comment, I do not think you have been depressed to a level where you wanted to kill yourself. It isn't just "GEE, I SURE AM UPSET THAT THESE KIDS DON'T LIKE ME," the feeling is more like "GEE, THESE KIDS SURE HAVE DESTROYED MY SELF-ESTEEM, I SURE WANT TO KILL MYSELF RIGHT NOW." It really isn't easy to turn to someone and say "hey good buddy, stop feeling so down! There are children in [generic third world country] who have it worse than you!" Depression isn't as simple as patting them on the back and giving them a morale boost. This isn't television. With MUCH motivation, they could probably feel better, but it will take work.
I'm focusing more on the whole suicide aspect of your post rather than the jail section because I wholeheartedly agree that what qualifies as "bullying" is a huge grey area.
Disgusting display of victim mentality in this thread.
Let's extend it out. Bullying is often a learned behavior (according to the NASP). so, we are punishing children for something they were programmed to do from their parents, older siblings or peers. Should we charge them for manslaughter also?
Bullies should be punished, but this is not the answer.
Let's extend it out. Bullying is often a learned behavior (according to the NASP). so, we are punishing children for something they were programmed to do from their parents, older siblings or peers. Should we charge them for manslaughter also?
Bullies should be punished, but this is not the answer.
My principals and teachers didn't do SHIT for me when I was being bullied and harassed. As a result, I usually had to roll up my sleeves and dole out the justice myself. In hindsight, this wasn't exactly a master stroke idea, but I felt that something had to be done. And if they weren't going to do it, who would?
They never bothered me again, BUT I got thrown out of school each time. I nearly got expelled one time, too.
In short, fuck bullying, fuck bullies, and fuck useless, ignorant, apathetic adults who condone this shit. *middle finger salute*
There, now I'm done.
They never bothered me again, BUT I got thrown out of school each time. I nearly got expelled one time, too.
In short, fuck bullying, fuck bullies, and fuck useless, ignorant, apathetic adults who condone this shit. *middle finger salute*
There, now I'm done.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's where the important discussion is to be had. Just how much "free will" do we allow for? Is our current system perfect?
Vermillion
Banned
Thought about it. Many times (esp. as I was younger). Got depressed irrationally. Never would, and never will.
In the end, you control what you do. For example, if the kid had went the other direction and killed the bullies, he would be responsible.
No, we shouldn't.
And I don't see any reason not to treat the activities that make up bullying - whether it's assault, harassment, battery, or intimidation - as the crimes that they are.
The ongoing of trend people who call outright physical assault "bullying" just because the victim and attacker are young is insane and a disservice to taking the situation seriously.
Being a douchebag and calling a fellow student a names/messing with their locker/bumping them in the hallway to be an asshole etc. That is bullying. Not acceptable but not worth 3 years in jail.
TAKING TURNS BEATING SOMEONE, that is assault not "bullying".
Being a douchebag and calling a fellow student a names/messing with their locker/bumping them in the hallway to be an asshole etc. That is bullying. Not acceptable but not worth 3 years in jail.
TAKING TURNS BEATING SOMEONE, that is assault not "bullying".
The bullies are victims, too. They just don't bear the scars you can see. Would you jail someone who committed a crime that was mentally handicapped or chemically unbalanced? Is three years in jail going to teach these kids empathy for others or just harden their resolve? I'm guessing the latter.
I agree with you. What worries me is when over-protective parents start wanting children to jailed for bullying as you described it. Or if a child kills his/herself over being pestered/bullied.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
There isn't any doubt in my mind this was manslaughter. Question is, could you class it as voluntarily manslaughter?
This might be an uncharitable interpretation on my part, but first you say that this thread is a disgusting display of victim mentality, and now you're arguing that the victims we really ought to be concerned about are the bullies and what they experienced.
I don't really care about criminalizing "bullying" since as has been pointed out, it is too nebulous and gray defining when it becomes actionable. But yes, I think that the constituent acts that make up bullying should be treated as crimes. Juvenile crimes, since I think that juveniles shouldn't be punished the same way as adults, but still crimes.
And I think I've made it clear that I don't think that this is the only thing that should be done, either, and I don't think that there is an "answer" in terms of ending bullying.
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