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[Deleted member 10571]

yes, it had her nude, but nudity in itself isnt offensive is it? what was the context, I never saw the comic and have no idea whats going on other than it has zoe quinn in it and she didnt have clothes on..

Are we actually pretending that comic probably wasn't necessarily offensive or insulting now?

Edit: I took too long, LTTP of course pointed this out too

Also why the fuck is this thread about Gamergate and Zoe Quinn now. Is this the good old GG distraction technique?

 

[PseudoKirby]

You're worried about what the person being abused should do.

The point is that society as a whole needs to recognize that racism/sexism aren't funny.

They aren't fart jokes, they discriminate and marginalize entire groups of people.

When a woman's accomplishment can be posted on a news/social media site without half the comments being "lol but why isnt she in a kitchen"... then we might be making progress.



Now I'm starting to see that you're either full of shit or someone who got banned that is trying to pull the same shit without getting banned.

If you don't see what is horribly wrong with posting comics of someone else naked ... then you're way beyond gone. Then add to the pile that the "someone else" is also being harassed/threatened by hordes of internet assholes.

How the fuck can that ever seem "ok" or just internet business as usual?

You cant change what people see is funny. specifically if the REASON its funny is because it is supposed to be a serious subject, people will want to stand out and make fun in the "forbidden" it happens all the time.


its the same kind of uptightness that those people are trying to fight.

 

[partyphone]

But mansplaining is a specific kind of condescension. The term deserves to exist. So does womansplaining and SJW, to be honest

what's an example of womansplaining?

also SJW has basically lost all meaning at this point. the alt-right latched onto it way too hard. same with cuck and beta.

 

[Angelus Errare]

"Whataboutism" (or "whataboutery", as I personally perfer) is a distraction technique used to redirect attention away from an issue by claiming there are worse issues elsewhere. It is based in a strange misunderstanding of cognitive load theory, since it is possible for multiple people to consider multiple different problems at the same time since they are unconnected individuals and do not pool from a common supply of "psychological processing power" as it is posited. Essentially, a person raises a point, and it is met with "yeah, but what about something else..." without actually addressing the point.

It applies in this case because I'm not sure what patriarchal societies ruling all of the Earth instead of just the United States signifies in relation to the assertion that the patriarchal society in the United States is undesirable.

It is true that most reactionaries as you've described fail to understand the mechanics of language when it is convenient, and are really resistant towards being taught. "Mansplaining" isn't a gendered attack because it features the root word "man" in it, and I've already explained the development of the term and what it means.

That feeling when you were writing a response and someone else does a better job than you. :3

 

[GnawtyDog]

When a man is specifically talking down to/exerting power over a woman because they assume the women is dumb/uninformed... what else do you want to call it?

If I say "oh look at that (insert race here) ... I bet they don't know how to do this... let me explain that to them" ... is that not racism? Am I really just a concerned citizen?

Fucking lol.

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap gender based attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

 

[weemadarthur]

I find it quite ironic that some feminists use the word "mansplaining" like it's the most reasonable thing to say. There are perfectly good words that convey the same idea without being gender-specific. One would think that feminists more than anyone should be aware of the downsides of gender-loaded terms.

I don't really see the point of jumping straight into gender-specific derogatory terms when it's unnecessary, but to each his own I guess.

What makes you consider "mansplaining" to be a derogatory term?

 

[PseudoKirby]

Well I guess there IS a thriving industry of comics on the Internet depicting Zoe Quinn in the nude positively

I dont know, I dont actively seek those things, sorry if I swim in ignorance.



but either way, I joined this website when it was at the time a roast fest, where you would get made fun of hard for any little mistake or thing.

it has taken a huge 180 on all of that in the recent years.

Are we actually pretending that comic probably wasn't necessarily offensive or insulting now?

Edit: I took too long, LTTP of course pointed this out too

Also why the fuck is this thread about Gamergate and Zoe Quinn now. Is this the good old GG distraction technique?

because someone said I make mistakes in labeling someone as an SJW for trivial reasons, well I was just saying that I get the same treatment being labeled as a gamergater for equally trivial reasons.

 

[QuantumZebra]

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap based gender attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

A) What the fuck am I reading

B) Are you going to tell me how minorities are racist against white people next?

I dont know, I dont actively seek those things, sorry if I swim in ignorance.


but either way, I joined this website when it was at the time a roast fest, where you would get made fun of hard for any little mistake or thing.

it has taken a huge 180 on all of that in the recent years.

Well at least you're aware of it.

And yes so has the rest of the civilized world. People are waking up to how shitty some people are treated in the media and across society as a whole.

Welcome! It's nice. We have cookies and no marginalized people.

 

[2MF]

the point is to call out a very specific phenomenon. what other word describes the activity just as accurately and succinctly?

I would agree with you if it was used in those rare circumstances where it's obvious that the man is being sexist. But so far I've seen that word used for simple cases of condescension where sexism wasn't obvious at all. Maybe I'm just unlucky though.

On the plus side I should note that I've mostly seen this word used online, fortunately...

When a man is specifically talking down to/exerting power over a woman because they assume the women is dumb/uninformed... what else do you want to call it?

If I say "oh look at that (insert race here) ... I bet they don't know how to do this... let me explain that to them" ... is that not racism? Am I really just a concerned citizen?

Fucking lol.

That's not necessarily a good analogy. I'm thinking more like, someone says something generically bad about a specific black guy, and someone immediately assumes racism even though the comment didn't mention race at all. That seems a lot more analogous to the uses of the word "mansplaining" which I've seen so far.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap based gender attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

What the literal fuck are you even on about?

 

[A Link to the Past]

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap based gender attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

What "womansplaining situation" would that be?

 

[Angelus Errare]

I mean really how often in American society can women "exert power" over men? Women don't even have much of a say in their own reproductive system ffs.

Again, pointless whataboutisms.

 

[partyphone]

I would agree with you if it was used in those rare circumstances where it's obvious that the man is being sexist. But so far I've seen that word used for simple cases of condescension where sexism wasn't obvious at all. Maybe I'm just unlucky though.

On the plus side I should also note that I've seen this word used mostly online, fortunately...

the sexism comes from the fact that women are being talked down to simply because they're women. what you're describing is literally sexist.

 

[Sianos]

Is the takeaway that liberals aren't being "politically correct" enough and are offending people with the term "mansplaining"? I mean, I'm down for explaining the phenomenon that was encapsulated in the phrase if people can't understand what it means.

Honestly, if the term really does bother people, I wouldn't mind at all if people stopped using it in favor of bludgeoning people with paragraphs as it should be. Of course, it would also mean that I would literally never stop mocking any future complaints about "political correctness gone mad" with the wonderful time people got offended by the phrase "mansplaining".

I don't think I ever used the term myself because I knew people would misinterpret what was meant and derail the argument with willful density.

That feeling when you were writing a response and someone else does a better job than you. :3

D'aw, thanks. :>

 

[GnawtyDog]

"Whataboutism" (or "whataboutery", as I personally perfer) is a distraction technique used to redirect attention away from an issue by claiming there are worse issues elsewhere. It is based in a strange misunderstanding of cognitive load theory, since it is possible for multiple people to consider multiple different problems at the same time since they are unconnected individuals and do not pool from a common supply of "psychological processing power" as it is posited. Essentially, a person raises a point, and it is met with "yeah, but what about something else..." without actually addressing the point.

It applies in this case because I'm not sure what patriarchal societies ruling all of the Earth instead of just the United States signifies in relation to the assertion that the patriarchal society in the United States is undesirable.

It is true that most reactionaries as you've described fail to understand the mechanics of language when it is convenient, and are really resistant towards being taught. "Mansplaining" isn't a gendered attack because it features the root word "man" in it, and I've already explained the development of the term and what it means.

The question is, what was I trying to distract from? The fact the U.S has a patriarchal structure? Water is wet....

The simple fact that we are not talking about patriarchal societies as a whole, and singling out a specific nation like it matters for this subject is a distraction. I just don't call it one - I merely state a fact in hopes we can move on.

Your opinion on mansplaining is not like, the end all. As for the labeling, just ad-hominem.

 

[God Dayumm]

what's an example of womansplaining?

here

also SJW has basically lost all meaning at this point. the alt-right latched onto it way too hard. same with cuck and beta.

Who cares what latched, a word can have broad meanings. That you don't like some of these meanings doesn't discredit a term.

 

[weemadarthur]

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap based gender attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

A relative equivalent would be enlarged testicles. When you see a woman proclaiming what it's like to live with that syndrome, feel free to call out the womansplaining.

You clearly have the same misunderstanding of the term in question as some previous posters in this topic.

 

[2MF]

the sexism comes from the fact that women are being talked down to simply because they're women. what you're describing is literally sexist.

I don't understand how what I'm describing is "literally sexist", since the only concrete thing I mentioned was condescension.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Treat everyone with respect instead of approaching people different from you as them having to earn your respect.

 

[QuantumZebra]

That's not necessarily a good analogy. I'm thinking more like, someone says something generically bad about a specific black guy, and someone immediately assumes racism even though the comment didn't mention race at all. That seems a lot more analogous to the uses of the word "mansplaining" which I've seen so far.

How on earth is somebody claiming someone is racist for critiquing a person who happens to be black (which in a lot of cases is and could still be true) the same as men talking down to women because they think the woman is dumb/uninformed?

They literally have nothing to do with each other.

 

[2MF]

How on earth is somebody claiming someone is racist for critiquing a person who happens to be black (which in a lot of cases is and could still be true) the same as men talking down to women because they think the woman is dumb/uninformed?

They literally have nothing to do with each other.

I'm saying that I see the word "mansplain" being thrown around a lot in cases where a guy is simply being condescending to a woman. Which to me is analogous to accusing someone of racism just because they said something bad about a person who happens to be of another race.

Sure, in either case there could be racism or sexism involved, but to assume so is jumping to conclusions, especially if done online with someone you don't even know, or with someone you just met in real life.

 

[partyphone]

I don't understand how what I'm describing is "literally sexist", since the only concrete thing I mentioned was condescension.

because most of the time the time it is. hence the need for the term mansplaining.

 

[snarge]

A condescending/patronizing clown? Same as a women "exerting power" over men when they assume men is dumb/uniformed about a subject - like, say, big tits. But you don't get men saying womensplaining. It's a cheap based gender attack and it's time it gets called out for what it's.

Nope, men don't use "womensplaining". Just slut, whore, bitching, or pussy.

But yeah, men never use cheap, gender based attacks. I fucking wish men would use something so light and weak as womensplaining.

 

[PseudoKirby]

if you want a real example of mansplaining its this kind of shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX4sf1JVY24



it really happens and should stop because its fucking creepy and wrong.

Spoiler

and yes as a man I have been told randomly to smile as well, I am sure not as much as women though

 

[Sushi Nao]

I really like how many men in this thread are ignoring what the women have said and are steam-rolling right on with their explanation

Someone should invent a word for that, some kind of catchy portmanteau

 

[A Link to the Past]

How on earth is somebody claiming someone is racist for critiquing a person who happens to be black (which in a lot of cases is and could still be true) the same as men talking down to women because they think the woman is dumb/uninformed?

They literally have nothing to do with each other.

Yeah; unlike with a person criticizing a black person, you can see the mansplaining. So for instance, if your criticism of a black person is racist, you can tell that it is racist.

 

[kavanf1]

What makes you consider "mansplaining" to be a derogatory term?

The definitions in this thread make it sound quite derogatory by linking condescension and patronisation to being male. Neither of which are exclusively male traits.

If the end goal is about equality, as indeed it should be, I would prefer to see people pushing for equality by treating people as they would like to be treated. I won't participate in this kind of labelling of people because I believe it does more damage than good in terms of achieving equality.

 

[2MF]

What makes you consider "mansplaining" to be a derogatory term?

I've never seen it used as a neutral or positive term. Have you ever seen anyone using that word in a way which implies indifference or positivity towards the one being labeled a "mansplainer"?

 

[PseudoKirby]

also, someone has provided an article that has mansplaining in it

women don't live in the real world; they live in a fantasy world. And one of those fantasies is tight lips.

That’s right. women think the ideal man is a silent one. They’ve drawn up elaborate fantasies in which on their arm is the perfect, silent boyfriend who goes along with everything they say and never, ever talks back or questions.

In their warped minds, women think the silence of a man is the love of a man — that his refusal to argue or speak against her is a sign of devotion and intimacy.

Spoiler

oh wait that article was written by a woman when talking about men, I changed it. how does it make you feel?

 

[weemadarthur]

I really like how many men in this thread are ignoring what the women have said and are steam-rolling right on with their explanation

Someone should invent a word for that, some kind of catchy portmanteau

lol

I'm saying that I see the word "mansplain" being thrown around a lot in cases where a guy is simply being condescending to a woman. Which to me is analogous to accusing someone of racism just because they said something bad about a person who happens to be of another race.

Sure, in either case there could be racism or sexism involved, but to assume so is jumping to conclusions, especially if done online with someone you don't even know, or with someone you just met in real life.

Try this thought experiment. You are in a parallel dimension, where in every case you've ever seen where the word was used - the user was completely correct, and the motivation for the whole conversation was mansplaining. How would your life be different in this parallel dimension?

 

[QuantumZebra]

I'm saying that I see the word "mansplain" being thrown around a lot in cases where a guy is simply being condescending to a woman.

Why are we having this debate again?

If you attack someone for being black, it is a hate crime and racism.

If you attack a woman for being a woman, it is a hate crime and sexism.

If you feel the need to be condescending towards someone/explain yourself over them because they are a woman, that is mansplaining.

Where is the disconnect?

also, someone has provided an article that has mansplaining in it

Spoiler

oh wait that article was written by a woman when talking about men, I changed it. how does it make you feel?

I'd think that was an Onion article - because it is a direct reversal of what is normal in society.

Was that your intention?

 

[GnawtyDog]

A relative equivalent would be enlarged testicles. When you see a woman proclaiming what it's like to live with that syndrome, feel free to call out the womansplaining.

"You have to be black to understand what it's like to live with racism"

You clearly have the same misunderstanding of the term in question as some previous posters in this topic.

There is misunderstanding all over the place. Some just claim to understand it.

Nope, men don't use "womensplaining". Just slut, whore, bitching, or pussy.

But yeah, men never use cheap, gender based attacks. I fucking wish men would use something so light and weak as womensplaining.

They're sexist insults - and are universally recognized as such. Just like mensplaining is a gender based attack for condescending assholes.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I really like how many men in this thread are ignoring what the women have said and are steam-rolling right on with their explanation

Someone should invent a word for that, some kind of catchy portmanteau

lol

 

[Sianos]

The question is, what was I trying to distract from? The fact the U.S has a patriarchal structure? Water is wet....

The simple fact that we are not talking about patriarchal societies as a whole, and singling out a specific nation like it matters for this subject is a distraction. I just don't call it one - I merely state a fact in hopes we can move on.

Your opinion on mansplaining is not like, the end all. As for the labeling, just ad-hominem.

You went back and improved your original posts, so now I understand why that fact was relevant to your points. More than anything, I was confused as to why you brought up "the whole world has patriarchal structures" with little explanation of what that signified.

In my opinion, there is value in addressing nations specifically as well as addressing patriarchal structure as a broader concept. Unique social and cultural factors explain why the patriarchal structure manifested in such a manner unique to that particular country and its history and circumstances. I also in general find there to be more evidence in favor of the paradigm that biological gender differences - especially psychological ones - are strengthened by a society that pushes people to act in accordance with specific gender roles due to theories of neural network density development, and thus people develop to match the expected roles.

It's not my opinion, it's the story of how and why the term developed. If an extra dose of political correctness is needed because people are truly offended by the term, then so be it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

also, someone has provided an article that has mansplaining in it

Spoiler

oh wait that article was written by a woman when talking about men, I changed it. how does it make you feel?

Firstly, people have given data that discussed why women can engage in 'mansplaining' towards other women

Secondly, that article would suggest a woman speaking from experience and understanding, and not towards other specific women.

 

[Dice//]

I really like how many men in this thread are ignoring what the women have said and are steam-rolling right on with their explanation

Someone should invent a word for that, some kind of catchy portmanteau

Happens in virtually all female-related Gaf topics.

 

[2MF]

Why are we having this debate again?

If you attack someone for being black, it is a hate crime and racism.

If you attack a woman for being a woman, it is a hate crime and sexism.

If you feel the need to be condescending towards someone/explain yourself over them because they are a woman, that is mansplaining.

Where is the disconnect?

I'm not having any debate again. I just got here on the 7th page I think. Oh and I agree that if you attack someone for being a woman that is sexist.

 

[Pau]

Can we at least agree that there are men out there assuming women don't know what they're talking about because they are women and these men feel the need to explain things to them? Usually unprompted and sometimes about things that women tend to have unique experiences of? And there are of enough of these occurrences to coin a term to concisely label this phenomenon?

 

[PseudoKirby]

Why are we having this debate again?

If you attack someone for being black, it is a hate crime and racism.

If you attack a woman for being a woman, it is a hate crime and sexism.

If you feel the need to be condescending towards someone/explain yourself over them because they are a woman, that is mansplaining.

Where is the disconnect?





I'd think that was an Onion article - because it is a direct reversal of what is normal in society.

Was that your intention?

Firstly, people have given data that discussed why women can engage in 'mansplaining' towards other women

Secondly, that article would suggest a woman speaking from experience and understanding, and not towards other specific women.

here is the article
http://elitedaily.com/dating/girlfriend-argue-doesnt-love/1305164/

its a general statement applied as if all men think like that

if a man makes that statement about women its immediately labeled as mansplaining.

 

[weemadarthur]

also, someone has provided an article that has mansplaining in it

Spoiler

oh wait that article was written by a woman when talking about men, I changed it. how does it make you feel?/SPOILER]

Spoiler

I feel the same both ways. The writer is an idiot who doesn't understand the variance of personalities found in the human race.

But the article was written by a woman talking about women, so your statement is erroneous.

 

[Pau]

Happens in virtually all female-related Gaf topics.

Too true.

 

[A Link to the Past]

here is the article
http://elitedaily.com/dating/girlfriend-argue-doesnt-love/1305164/

its a general statement applied as if all men think like that

if a man makes that statement about women its immediately labeled as mansplaining.

It doesn't claim that all men think like that, it claims that it's a common behavior that affects a lot of women. It stands to reason that women who have a history of being met with this kind of behavior would comment on it.

But again, no matter what it defaults to the fact that mansplaining is not a behavior that only men can exhibit.

 

[PseudoKirby]

I feel the same both ways. The writer is an idiot who doesn't understand the variance of personalities found in the human race.

But the article was written by a woman talking about women, so your statement is erroneous.

again, I changed it, want the real words?

Men don't live in the real world; they live in a fantasy world. And one of those fantasies is tight lips.

That’s right. Men think the ideal woman is a silent one. They’ve drawn up elaborate fantasies in which on their arm is the perfect, silent girlfriend who goes along with everything they say and never, ever talks back or questions.

In their warped minds, men think the silence of a woman is the love of a woman — that her refusal to argue or speak against him is a sign of devotion and intimacy.

 

[sephi22]

Why are we having this debate again?

If you feel the need to be condescending towards someone/explain yourself over them because they are a woman, that is mansplaining.

I don't mean to mansplain, but what I think he was trying to say that perhaps there are men out there who are condescending to everyone, men or women, and calling their behavior mansplaining generalizes men unfairly, as if they were specifically being dicks to women because of their gender. Men being condescending to other men, women v women, or women v men is unlabeled, but a man being condescending to a woman is almost always called mansplaining and stereotypes as general man to woman behavior.

I dunno. I'm not a woman. I don't know how often women deal with this. I don't talk to many women on a day to day basis anyway. :S

 

[QuantumZebra]

Can we at least agree that there are men out there assuming women don't know what they're talking about because they are women and these men feel the need to explain things to them? Usually unprompted and sometimes about things that women tend to have unique experiences of? And there are of enough of these occurrences to coin a term to concisely label this phenomenon?

No because that is reverse-sexism and it upsets men!

As a man I'd like to say #NotAllM

Spoiler

armosets

 

[someday]

I'm starting to feel like some people here think women collectively made this phenomenon up instead of it just happening so regularly to them that it became a thing, which is itself more distrust of women's knowledge, experience, and honesty that leads to this shit.

Exactly. This term is new and yet the phenomenon isn't.

I really like how many men in this thread are ignoring what the women have said and are steam-rolling right on with their explanation

Someone should invent a word for that, some kind of catchy portmanteau

Perfect.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Can we at least agree that there are men out there assuming women don't know what they're talking about because they are women and these men feel the need to explain things to them? Usually unprompted and sometimes about things that women tend to have unique experiences of? And there are of enough of these occurrences to coin a term to concisely label this phenomenon?

Yeah definitely. I think the backlash on the word mainly stems from the over and improper use of it. Guys don't want to be accused of mansplaining any time they are just trying to explain something to someone who identifies as female. At the same time, there are some increasingly rare instances where a guy like you described really is mansplaining and the use of the word in that context is just fine.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Happens in virtually all female-related Gaf topics.

Pretty much.

 

[2MF]

Nope, men don't use "womensplaining". Just slut, whore, bitching, or pussy.

But yeah, men never use cheap, gender based attacks. I fucking wish men would use something so light and weak as womensplaining.

This is escalating quickly, I don't think anyone said men don't use gender-specific derogatory terms.

But if those should be avoided, so should the man-specific derogatory terms, especially when there's a gender-neutral word that describes the behavior without going into "gender war mode".

And sure, if someone is clearly being sexist I don't see anything wrong with calling that out using a word like "mansplaining". But the bar seems to be far below that when I've seen the word being used.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

This is the best game ever.

I think I posted this before but I was at my fighting game hang out and a guy just goes and assumes that I don't know SFV exists and it comes out in literally two months. He's trying to explain the buttons and shit. "This is light punch, this is medium punch..." So I just play "tee hee I'm dumb" game.

He looked devastated when I destroyed him.

Like, for some reason he thinks I'm not there to fight other people, that I'm probably some other dudes girlfriend or whatever, but still.

I think the wide rangingness (dat notevenaword ing) of what mansplaining seems to be is what I dont like about the term.

It seems like "being a condescending asshole" seems to be an accepted alternative term, but was that this guy in your case?

I.e its not just "for some reason" that he assumes you're not there to game is it?

If something or some place are heavily done/populated by one sex, people will assume that sex will have more info and the other will have less or little.

I don't think that's anyone trying to put down or silence anyone, but just behaving based on what they experience as a norm every day. If someone one day comes along and bucks the trend, its still an exception.

Doesn't mean its right. Treating everyone as if they are "qualified" till you find out otherwise is obviously the best policy.

I think this situation and similar (say in a mechanics garage) is much different than say a lady being talked down about a subject regarding her job that's shes already paid to know about where assuming she doesn't know only makes sense if you think shes not up to her post for some irrational reason.

Based on examples in this thread, even me giving my opinion on it in any depth is apparently mansplaining, which has made me delete or abort my replies many times already for fear of offending someone and being branded a mansplainer o_o.

I have a problem with explaining things without being long winded and extra detailed about it, regardless of who I'm talking to, but if I were to talk to some women, they'd assume I'm being that way just because they're a woman, instead of just being myself.

I don't know how to end this post.