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Can the DS be considered Nintendo's most experimental era?

Jubenhimer

Member
In an odd turn of the tables, First party support for the Nintendo DS is often met with mixed/mediocre reception from fans. Most would say Nintendo's output on the DS wasn't up to the company's usual high standards, containing relatively weak entries in Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Fire Emblem and Star Fox series. The general consensus is that 3rd parties regularly outdid Nintendo's own efforts on the DS, at least in terms of critical reception. Nintendo handhelds are no stranger to strong third party support, but it's very rare for a Nintendo console to have better third party support than first party support.

In the case of established franchises, I can see where they were coming from. Super Mario 64 DS was a neat tech demo, but held back by the lack of an analog stick. Not everyone was in love with the touch based Zelda games, and Metroid Prime Hunters was a great shooter, but far from a Metroid game.

However, the Nintendo DS also birthed what I consider to be Nintendo's best new IP output since the NES. DS was where Nintendo started doing things they'd never really done before, haven't done in years, and arguably, haven't done since. Of course we can start with the Touch Generations line, spawning non-game hits like Nintendogs and Brain Age. But there's also weirder stuff like Elite Beat Agents, Big Brain Academy, Electroplankton, Rhythm Heaven, Trace Memory, or Hotel Dusk: Room 215.

That's not even getting into their Japan only games. Like Daigasso! Band Brothers, the Tingle games, Chōsōjū Mecha MG, Jet Impulse, etc. They co-produced two Shonen Jump fighting games. Even some of the established franchises were taken in weird directions. Kirby Canvas Curse was one of the earliest showcases of the DS' touch screen, Wario Ware D.I.Y. put the Microgame creation into the player's hands. Mario Kart DS marked Nintendo's very first foray into the brave new world of online multiplayer, Advance Wars took a darker turn with Days of Ruin, and the aforementioned Metroid Prime Hunters turned Metroid into a DS equivalent of a portable Quake III.

So while not Nintendo's best first party showing, I consider the DS to be Nintendo at it's most interesting and experimental. With things like ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Snipperclips, Labo, Sushi Striker, and Astral Chain, I think the Switch could overtake it in the long run.
 
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JordanN

Banned
Gamecube era felt like it IMO.

Super Mario Sunshine, the Donkey Konga games, Strikers, Mario DDR, Pikmin, Odama, Wario World, Luigis Mansion, Eternal Darkness, Custom Robo, Star Fox Assault, Battalion Wars.

Also consider the Gamecube was mostly a 3D platform so the risks felt bigger. With the DS it kinda felt like a lot of games could have been ported to the Gameboy Advance or vice versa.
 
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Chittagong

Gold Member
For sure. It easy to forget now that it’s an established thing that it was completely bonkers even on Nintendo standards.

First, the dual screen. Seeing that in a press release was a serious mindfuck. Like, how would that even work? Would developers develop for two screens simultaneously? That combined with the dual CPU architecture.

Then add in a touch screen. Never really used for anything commercially successful before. This is three years ahead of iPhone, provides a huge amount of new gameplay ideas right away. And it got combined with a thumb strap to a pseudo analog controller too.

On top of that you have things like microphone, local wireless networking and book mode. It’s like Nintendo was in a tight spot and just shoved whatever idea they had in.

OP mentions already most of the incredible, often experimental games coming out in that short 2004-2007 era of innovate explosion, it was a really inspiring time to experience. It felt like playing indies feels today - getting to play something new and exciting.
 
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petran79

Banned
I agree and I'd also include Wii into this. Though PSP success proved that a large part of the players preferred more traditional games, similar to the GBA previously.
3DS failed to cover those players in content, Vita failed to cover them in support so now Switch covers both.
 
Everything about the DS was novel. I miss being continually impressed with it for years.

The first time using a touch screen for gaming, two screens, blowing into a mic, WiFi multiplayer.

Ghost trick, Nintendogs, Tetris ds, Phoenix Wright, professor Layton, rub rabbits, warioware touched, Mario 64 ds, meteos, Metroid prime hunters, another code, animal crossing, advanced wars, castlevanias, brain training, elite beat agents, Mario kart ds, Picross 3D, rhythm paradise, trauma centre, the world ends with you.

What a system
 
It was very experimental, but for me their most experimental (and whole gamings) period is 2nd half of 90s.

- Bunch of old franchises reworked to function in 3D (Mario, TloZ, DK, MK)
- New franchises (Pokemon, Mario Party, Smash, 1080, Paper Mario, Wave Race)
- Rare's whole output
- Birth of Pokemon mega-franchise
- Analog controls and rumble
- Virtual Boy and N64DD (lol)
 

Jubenhimer

Member
Also consider the Gamecube was mostly a 3D platform so the risks felt bigger. With the DS it kinda felt like a lot of games could have been ported to the Gameboy Advance or vice versa.

I'm not sure. Even ignoring the touch screen, and 3D Graphics, many 2D games on the DS are beyond what the GBA could handle. The DS also has far better sound as well.
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Every console is experimental with some form

SNES= chips
Mega Drive= add-ons
N64= analog controller, four players, interaction with Game Boy, expansion pack
PSX= first party games doesn't really matter to get sales
Game Boy/Color= versions of games that exists on home consoles
Saturn= expansion
Dreamcast= internet gaming, VMU
PS2= analog buttons
Xbox= multimedia machine, HDD as base for storage, download content
Game Cube= first party games that some are not Nintendo level of great
GBA= not a single primary Mario game on the console, just remakes
PSP= movies on the go, games that look stunning, a analog stick
DS= two screen, microphoe, lots of casual games
Wii= four games bundled that a 4 year old or a 80 year old could play
and so on...
 
The best thing about the DS/3DS is using two screens for a game that would otherwise only use one screen. Shmups are great on it. VNs were probably more abundant than even the Dreamcast. Rhythm games got to shine as well. Tactical RPGs had finally come to their prime with all the action on the top screen and the UI focused at the bottom.

However, platformers weren't as impressive on the system (I will even include Sonic Rush here that mostly used it correctly), and some traditional RPGs felt off with the split screen.

It was certainly an interesting time and I regularly look back at these games as some gems are great on it.
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
Odd timing--a niece was over just last night looking through my old DS / 3DS games for something to borrow, and I picked out Elite Beat Agents to show her--which led to her and her siblings crowding around to watch me play that tear-jerker mission where you basically comfort a girl and her mother who lost their father / husband in a car accident before Christmas. They found the whole game concept just mesmerizingly bizarre.

I love some of these odd DS games.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'd argue that both the GameCube and Wii were more experimental, even if the latter tended to be pretty gimmicky. First party Ninty games on the DS were, for the most part, pretty ordinary and just used the second screen for a map or something. Their output on the system wasn't particularly good, either.
 

Jubenhimer

Member
First party Ninty games on the DS were, for the most part, pretty ordinary and just used the second screen for a map or something. Their output on the system wasn't particularly good, either.

Not really. All the games I listed were first party, and most of them used the DS in unique ways. I agree that their franchise games were comparatively weaker, but many of their original titles on the system were just as good IMO.
 

The Snake

Member
For sure. It easy to forget now that it’s an established thing that it was completely bonkers even on Nintendo standards.

First, the dual screen. Seeing that in a press release was a serious mindfuck. Like, how would that even work? Would developers develop for two screens simultaneously? That combined with the dual CPU architecture.

Then add in a touch screen. Never really used for anything commercially successful before. This is three years ahead of iPhone, provides a huge amount of new gameplay ideas right away. And it got combined with a thumb strap to a pseudo analog controller too.

On top of that you have things like microphone, local wireless networking and book mode. It’s like Nintendo was in a tight spot and just shoved whatever idea they had in.

OP mentions already most of the incredible, often experimental games coming out in that short 2004-2007 era of innovate explosion, it was a really inspiring time to experience. It felt like playing indiea feels today - getting to play something new and exciting.

Yeah, I distinctly remember both the announcement of the DS and the first time I played it. The dual screen concept was crazy to me, and the idea of a touch screen was wild. Things just did not have touch screens back then (I mean, they did, but they were quite rare for most people).
 

GV82

Member
Yeah the Switch is experimental again too you’re right.

A console that Swaps between a Home Console & a Portable machine in HD. Then Nintendo are bringing out a Portable only version that doesn’t hook up to the TV going against the concept of the Switch in the first place and yet it’s in the title still.

The big one for me and probably many others

It’s the First time time since it was introduced they have chosen to stay away from Virtual Console which was on the Wii, WiiU, 3ds and was it on the DSi too? ( I had never owned one) WTF? I know we have NEas games online but like the game pass or any service similar (GeForce now) you are also offered a choice to purchase the older game to own.

Then Cardboard being used as Educational tool & VR app.

As well as everything else previously mentioned about the Switch
 
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Jubenhimer

Member
Then Nintendo are bringing out a Portable only version that doesn’t hook up to the TV going against the concept of the Switch in the first place and yet it’s in the title still.

TBF, the Switch Lite isn't a replacement for the main model. It's a side option for people who just want a handheld.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Nintendogs and Brain Age is pretty dope. the glass-less 3D is some Future Tech stuff i never thought i'd see. is this the first Nintendo system with online or digital games too? its too bad i kind of missed out on the DS/3DS generations, as i was a huge fan of SNES, and this seemed like an attempt to take that style of gaming forward, more into the future.

tho i dunno, i wouldn't count out the Switch just yet. i suspect Nintendo has a few magic cookies in the oven. already it is a super modular, portable system weighing very little that looks great on a modern TV and you can even use as a VR headset. where they will take it from here is up to fate to decide.
 
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Jigsaah

Gold Member
Virtual Boy was pretty out there. Although in terms of peripherals...the gaming community still has yet to catch up with the power glove.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
Maybe, but by the end of the gen, no one was really using the system as other than a traditional handheld with a second screen and optional menu stylus.
 

Jubenhimer

Member
Maybe, but by the end of the gen, no one was really using the system as other than a traditional handheld with a second screen and optional menu stylus.

That's mostly because most of the touch screen games migrated to iOS. By the time the 3DS arrived, uses of the touch screen were pulled back since there was another device more suited to that stuff.
 

Jubenhimer

Member
tho i dunno, i wouldn't count out the Switch just yet. i suspect Nintendo has a few magic cookies in the oven. already it is a super modular, portable system weighing very little that looks great on a modern TV and you can even use as a VR headset. where they will take it from here is up to fate to decide.

The Switch could honestly beat the DS in the long run. In just 2 year it's already amassed games like ARMS and Astral Chain. As well as a Western Licensed game in the form of Marvel UA3. And established IPs are taking bold new directions. So the Switch may just have Nintendo's most unique and diverse output yet.
 

Astral Dog

Member
Spirit Tracks is better than most Zelda games.
not sure but its at least in the middle.

I replayed it recently and found it very impressive and ambitious, from its presentation, puzzles to soundtrack, Nintendo tried to make a console like Zelda on a DS. The flute brings it down unfortunately

On the other hand ALBW is praised to hell but its more like a rehashed ALTTP with ugly graphics dumb story and very short, unoriginal though it had a cool gimmick.

I can only imagine if they had made another Wind Waker sequel on 3DS
 
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Videospel

Member
Gamecube era felt like it IMO.

Super Mario Sunshine, the Donkey Konga games, Strikers, Mario DDR, Pikmin, Odama, Wario World, Luigis Mansion, Eternal Darkness, Custom Robo, Star Fox Assault, Battalion Wars.
There were some experimentation for sure, but the DS brought out entire new genres of games because of its innovative controls. Super Mario Sunshine for example is more of a juiced up Mario 64.
Also consider the Gamecube was mostly a 3D platform so the risks felt bigger. With the DS it kinda felt like a lot of games could have been ported to the Gameboy Advance or vice versa.
Everything was already in 3D for the N64 so why do you think 3D for the Gamecube was risky? I do agree with you that there were many DS games that did not really utilize the unique hardware of the DS. Some more or less ignored the second screen or touch screen controls.
 
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