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[wilflare]

Won't stop Nintendo fans from getting defensive though. Of course, since I own both a 3DS and Vita, I'm worried all the time.

I own both too (but prefer my Vita more at least for now... and not running out of good games to play anytime soon)

Does that mean the vita's fate depend on the 3DS?

not necessarily but you can see where he's coming from at least. it could also mean that the 3DS has already grabbed so much of an already small handheld market in the West that there's hardly space for the Vita

BUT I must say perhaps that's why Sony is (to quote our last month's Vita thread title)... carving an indie niche for the Vita

I'm pretty happy with that strategy

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's a very good platform that is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I believe it's worth having right now but that doesn't mean it will start selling.

As many handheld fans we have for 3DS, I would think many of the same users would consider a Vita as it's got many good games as well as very strong indie support.

 

[Currygan]

It's a very good platform that is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I believe it's worth having right now but that doesn't mean it will start selling.

As many handheld fans we have for 3DS, I would think many of the same users would consider a Vita as it's got many good games as well as very strong indie support.

I'm afraid indie games really do nothing for the general public

 

[Schobeleth]

Sony really needs to stop being stubborn and just freaking cut the price of the damn thing and it's memory cards, number one.

They need to practically relaunch the thing if they want any chance of it doing any better because at this point, most "casual" gamers don't even know it exists - so can you imagine how parents/nongamers' knowledge of it will be?

I dunno I've had one since launch, I love the device, everyone I know who has one loves it but we all just wish it was doing better. It really is a damn shame :\ If only we could have this technology before smart phones/tablets started eroding the dedicated handheld space, but it's also because of Sony's negligence with the device as well, IMO.

 

[Velcro Fly]

If the presence of the Vita in the market drives Nintendo to kill it with first party support for the 3DS like they have, mission accomplished. I'd buy a Sony handheld every gen just for that.

In reality, there are a few games that really interest me on the Vita. I have a few from PS+ that I could get around to playing eventually too.

As long as both handhelds continue to offer unique experiences and games they will have a market and I'll buy them. I've grown very weary of sitting in front of a TV for 3 or 4 hours playing a game. These handhelds are perfect for me. With Nintendo you get some great RPGs and all the first party titles. With the Vita you get some console games on a small screen as well as some unique experiences as well as PSP and PS1 games digitally. They each do different things well.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

I'm afraid indie games really do nothing for the general public

Especially when those games are available elsewhere. Sometimes cheaper. And it's not even the strongest hand-held indie platform.

 

[jcm]

Yeah, but lack of standard memory is hurting. Its inflating the cost of the system and hurts digital sales.

I'm not sure i believe that. I think the vitas problems are mostly with the device itself. It's fighting a very strong competitor for a piece of a shrinking market. If they used sd cards or internal memory they'd have to charge even more for the machine itself. I don't think that would be a net positive.

 

[1st Course]

How many does it need to sell to be deemed salvaged ?

I think an average of 5-6m unit per year for the upcoming six years will be a very good target (30-40m LTD in six years). BTW this is how the PSP performed for comparison:

PSP Worldwide Unit Sales (Unit:Million):

Hardware Sales   Ap-Jn    Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr     FY       LTD

FY 2006/07        1.4      2.0      4.7      1.5      9.6      23.7 

FY 2007/08        2.1      2.5      5.7      3.5      13.8     37.5 

FY 2008/09        3.7      3.2      5.1      2.1      14.1     51.6 

FY 2009/10        1.3      3.0      4.2      1.4      9.9      61.5

FY 2010/11        1.2      1.5      3.6      1.7      8.0      69.5

FY 2011/12        1.8      1.7      2.4      0.9      6.8      76.3

Really as long as the system can do ~half PSP numbers I think it will be alright.

 

[richiek]

Allow Vita to accept SD cards and maybe we'll talk.

 

[Currygan]

what's the extrapolated number in the latest NPD anyways? I always lose myself in that thread, sorry for asking here

 

[CaptainZombie]

E3 will be telling if the Vita can survive. I hope they cut the price and announce some new software.

 

[Dunan]

Consumers nowadays prefer standards.

It's why not even Sony ships consumer devices with propietary headphone ports...

Sony does something even worse -- they use firmware updates to lock out formerly-usable non-Sony accessories.

I bought a pair of headphones with a microphone attached, advertised as PS3-compatible, planning to use it in online play on the PS3. Plugged it in only to find that Sony's latest firmware update had made them unusable.

 

[Oppo]

Sony does something even worse -- they use firmware updates to lock out formerly-usable non-Sony accessories.

I bought a pair of headphones with a microphone attached, advertised as PS3-compatible, planning to use it in online play on the PS3. Plugged it in only to find that Sony's latest firmware update had made them unusable.

How do you know it was the firmware? just curious.

On thread topic - what do we think of this article from last month?

Sony confirms that more than 100 indie, AAA, and first-party titles are heading to PS Vita in 2013

That certainly doesn't seem like a huge lack of support...

I have this weird feeling the Vita is almost like PS Home, i.e. we all think it's fucked because it sells so poorly relatively speaking, but somehow Sony seems happy with the money they are making from it. s'weird.

 

[sechsterangriff]

I'm confident the pricedrop will happen this year. I wonder if they're also preparing a "PS3 $299" style of marketing campaign.

Sony does something even worse -- they use firmware updates to lock out formerly-usable non-Sony accessories.

I bought a pair of headphones with a microphone attached, advertised as PS3-compatible, planning to use it in online play on the PS3. Plugged it in only to find that Sony's latest firmware update had made them unusable.

Dude, if it's a unlicensed third party accessory the manufacturer advertised as being PS3 compatible on its own risk, Sony aren't obliged to support it in any way. With updatable firmware there's always the risk this might happen, done purposely or not.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I think it has a bright future for niche games, and one or two major gems, but like the PSP, I really don't expect it'll ever light the sales charts on fire.

It'll be a dream for those who support it, all the same.

 

[CaptainZombie]

I'm confident the pricedrop will happen this year. I wonder if they're also preparing a "PS3 $299" style of marketing campaign.

I think they need to go $179 because at $199, their still not going to push a lot out the door.

 

[Agent X]

They have to make room for two new multi-sku consoles, with all new accessories and games this fall. And ps3, wii, and 360 will all still be available. Something has to give, and vita is already getting squeezed.

That's what I'm concerned about, too. Retailers are reducing the amount of attention they give the Vita. The size of the section they've allocated is smaller, and some of them are choosing not to stock many of the new releases. I'd love to see the retailers devote more of the spotlight to the Vita, but it's going to be increasingly difficult with other new systems coming later this year.

 

[entremet]

I don't see the logic that once the PS4 comes out that interests in the Vita will increase.

It will be the opposite. Sony has shown that is can't focus on two consoles at once; even their developers don't care for the Vita.

Besides, after spending at least 400 bucks plus games on the PS4, I'm being conservative about the price, we don't know yet, will the average consumer drop 250 on a Gamepad like add on for the PS4? Us Americans love our big screen TVs.

 

[wilflare]

hope they'll have more of those $179 bundles that Amazon ran last Black Friday.
tremendous value :O

 

[Oersted]

It can but since noone including Sony cares...

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

As long as both handhelds continue to offer unique experiences and games they will have a market and I'll buy them. I've grown very weary of sitting in front of a TV for 3 or 4 hours playing a game. These handhelds are perfect for me. With Nintendo you get some great RPGs and all the first party titles. With the Vita you get some console games on a small screen as well as some unique experiences as well as PSP and PS1 games digitally. They each do different things well.

Ever since I got my 3DS and my Vita, I have done probably about 75% of my gaming on the handhelds. Both platforms have provided some amazing game and as someone who has become burned out from
The AAA shootbang console experiences, the hanhelds have become the perfect platforms for me.

 

[Jinko]

No but the west has never been great for handhelds, Nintendo are the exception.

It's a real shame because the hardware inside Vita is lightyears better than 3DS but we aren't going to see it used much

 

[damisa]

After the PS3 launched, Sony basically ignored the PSP. It got a handful of games made by B teams after that. I played my PSP maybe twice in the last 3 years. I'm not expecting anything different when the PS4 launches which is why I'm not planning on getting a Vita.

Western developers seem to already have given up on the Vita, and Japanese devs look like they are only releasing occasional niche games, so I don't expect any third party miracles either.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why are people deluding themselves? The product is essentially unsalvageable.

In the US and Europe the system is selling less than 20K units a week.
Even if something comes along and magically doubles these sales it will still be doing horribly.

In Japan, after a major price cut the system has "stabilised"* at 15K. It may plod along as a niche product for the otaku crowd.

It has been a costly misadventure and will be Sony's last dedicated gaming handheld.

(*unconvinced it has)

 

[FLAguy954]

I think an average of 5-6m unit per year for the upcoming six years will be a very good target (30-40m LTD in six years). BTW this is how the PSP performed for comparison:



Really as long as the system can do ~half PSP numbers I think it will be alright.

How the hell do you expect the Vita to sell 5-6 million a year if it hasn't even sold 5 million in a year and a half globally? (I think it's around 4.5 million)

 

[shinra-bansho]

How the hell do you expect the Vita to sell 5-6 million a year if it hasn't even sold 5 million in a year and a half globally? (I think it's around 4.5 million)

Sell-through estimate based on NPD, MC and Nintendo's charts put it at 3.7M through March 31st.

 

[FLAguy954]

Sell-through estimate based on NPD, MC and Nintendo's charts put it at 3.7M through March 31st.

Damn, worse than I thought...

 

[bidaum]

I assume we'll see a ps4/vita bundle at launch (in addition to the normal just ps4 sku).

 

[Louis Cyphre]

No, only part of the PS3 crowd and upcoming PS4 userbase will bother. Sony hasn't done a very good job marketing the device on its own merits.

 

[BeastM0de]

Can it even sustain by being a very niche product though? I imagine sony have invested a painful lots of money into the R&D and the manufacturing, and designed it to handle console quality titles, but it will take years to recoup everything. There was an article where sony says it will take 3 years to start earning, but that was when they forecast to sell 10 million vita by this year march. The last time we heard, psp and vita sold 6.6 million combined at the end of last year.

The money invested into R&D is a sunk cost. Everyone who says sony should "drop the vita" is an idiot really. Dropping the vita doesn't magically recoup the cost of research. If I heard correctly the vita is sold at an $80 loss. The memory cards seem to be sold somewhere between 200-400% markup. My guess is that buying a vita+32 gig card just about breaks even.

 

[Oppo]

The money invested into R&D is a sunk cost. Everyone who says sony should "drop the vita" is an idiot really. Dropping the vita doesn't magically recoup the cost of research. If I heard correctly the vita is sold at an $80 loss. The memory cards seem to be sold somewhere between 200-400% markup. My guess is that buying a vita+32 gig card just about breaks even.

Didn't Kaz Hirai say near launch that it actually was a break-even system, if not a small profit?

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't think retailers are going to kill it. I think that's an incredibly premature statement. Particularly since it hasn't received a price cut yet.

A price cut without system-selling software will only result in a short-term bump, and given the failure of every major Vita release to date to move hardware in large quantities, I don't see what could be announced at this point that would do so.

 

[ArtHands]

Damn, worse than I thought...

To put it into perspective

3DS was launch on the following dates
JP February 26, 2011
EU March 25, 2011
NA March 27, 2011

On March 31 2011, Nintendo sold 3.61 million units (little over a month in JP, 6 days in EU and 4 days in NA).

 

[ascii42]

This. And GOW:A should have been a vita game and not a PS3 game.

That would have been cool,

 

[TheRedSnifit]

No chance.

 

[UncleSporky]

How do you know it was the firmware? just curious.

On thread topic - what do we think of this article from last month?

Sony confirms that more than 100 indie, AAA, and first-party titles are heading to PS Vita in 2013

That certainly doesn't seem like a huge lack of support...

I have this weird feeling the Vita is almost like PS Home, i.e. we all think it's fucked because it sells so poorly relatively speaking, but somehow Sony seems happy with the money they are making from it. s'weird.

4 first-party, 1 AAA, and 96 indie titles.

 

[Father_Brain]

Didn't Kaz Hirai say near launch that it actually was a break-even system, if not a small profit?

Quite the opposite, in fact;

http://www.vg247.com/2011/06/08/quick-quotes-hirai-expects-vita-to-be-profitable-within-three-years/

There were one or two quotes circa E3 2011 from a couple other Sony execs stating that they intended to make a net profit on the Vita "business" (hardware/software/accessories) from day one, but that was when Sony was still expecting to sell 10M or more in the platform's first year.

 

[wilflare]

4 first-party, 1 AAA, and 96 indie titles.

no.

UPCOMING:
Soul Sacrifice April 30, 2013
Zombie Tycoon 2: Brainhov's Revenge April 30, 2013
Velocity Ultra May 2013 May 2013
Jak and Daxter Collection June 2013
Muramasa Rebirth June 2013
Killzone: Mercenary September 17, 2013
Tearaway October 22, 2013
Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate October 25, 2013
Hotline Miami TBA 2013
Tekken X Street Fighter TBA 2013
Lego Marvel Super Heroes Fall 2013
Valhalla Knights 3 TBA 2013
Ys: Memories of Celceta Fall 2013
Ratchet & Clank QForce Spring 2013
Lego Legends of Chima: Laval's Journey Summer 2013
Deathmatch Village TBA 2013
Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two TBA 2013
Final Fantasy X HD TBA 2013
Final Fantasy X-2 HD TBA 2013
Frozen Synapse Tactics TBA 2013
Invizimals: The Alliance TBA 2013
Limbo TBA 2013
MotoGP 13 TBA 2013
The Binding of Isaac TBA 2013
The Walking Dead TBA 2013
Worms TBA 2013

RELEASED:

Earth Defense Force 2017 Portable
Let's Fish! Hooked On
Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time
MUD: FIM Motocross World Championship
Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus 2
MLB 13: The Show
Atelier Totori Plus: The Adventurer of Arland
Dead or Alive 5 +
Legends of War
Thomas Was Alone
Guacamelee!

That's what I pulled off Wikipedia... I notice things like Zombie Tycoon 2, Nun Attack!, and Dragon Fantasy Book 1 haven't made it in there.

Hope that helps though... I was surprised to think someone thought TxSF was coming this year -- let alone coming to Vita.

and that list is not fully updated.

 

[BeastM0de]

Quite the opposite, in fact;

http://www.vg247.com/2011/06/08/quick-quotes-hirai-expects-vita-to-be-profitable-within-three-years/

There were one or two quotes circa E3 2011 from a couple other Sony execs stating that they intended to make a net profit on the Vita "business" (hardware/software/accessories) from day one, but that was when Sony was still expecting to sell 10M or more in the platform's first year.

I think "profitable in 3 years" refers to covering the cost of R&D.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

4 first-party, 1 AAA, and 96 indie titles.

Terrible list. Aside from Tearaway what we have are watered down console ip's, indie games available on other platforms and older titles re-skinned.

 

[diffusionx]

Why are people deluding themselves?

Because it is an awesome handheld system. And well, the market has moved on. Sony delivered the best portable system ever and nobody cares and nothing Sony can do will make people care. People don't want non-Nintendo portable systems, and most people who want Nintendo portable systems are kids.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Allow Vita to accept SD cards and maybe we'll talk.

I really wish it was like this. Pisses me off that a 32GB card will cost $80+ while I can buy a 32GB SD card for $25 easily.

 

[wilflare]

Terrible list. Aside from Tearaway what we have are watered down console ip's, indie games available on other platforms and older titles re-skinned.

umm..
Soul Sacrifice?
Gravity Rush?
Lumines?
TxK?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

no.



and that list is not fully updated.

Geez, that list is depressing.

 

[Daingurse]

I wish they would. The more I play mine, the more I realise it offers an experience you can't get anywhere else.

I'm doubtful though. They're going to have their hands full enduring that the PS4 carries 'em back to former glory and I think the Vita will become a complete afterthought. It'll get table scraps here 'n' there, but nothing capable of reversing fortunes.

Right there with you Dave. Best handheld ever made, P4G is almost all I need. But man we need games!

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Because it is an awesome handheld system. And well, the market has moved on. Sony delivered the best portable system ever and nobody cares and nothing Sony can do will make people care. People don't want non-Nintendo portable systems, and most people who want Nintendo portable systems are kids.

That's kind of generalizing but mostly true. Sony missed the boat, high end portable devices are now called tablets and smartphones and ironically enough also play games. Nintendo has created a great culture and a large following for handheld gaming. It's also a lot more relevant in Japan for handheld game systems.

 

[wilflare]

Geez, that list is depressing.

we had a longer list in last month's thread. someone was keeping it updated.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

we had a longer list in last month's thread. someone was keeping it updated.

I'm not sure how much a longer list would help. If you cant think of it off the top your head its probably not worth mentioning.

 

[Velcro Fly]

Notice a disturbing lack of Dragons Crown on that list of upcoming Vita games

 

[metalslimer]

If by salvaged you mean kept on stores shelves selling 30k a month even that will be a very hard task. The only possible way stores will keep something sellning that shitty around is if Sony tries to strong arm them with PS4, and why would they risk that for Vita to sell like shit?