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Can we all agree that Batman's no-kill policy is a bad thing?
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Doesn't every superhero aside from the Punisher have a no-kill policy? Why pick on Batman alone?
Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Fantastic Four etc have all probably had major opportunities to kill their main villains, and completely choked when the time came.
I guess Blade kills his enemies, but they're vampries so that's a pretty good excuse.
It's probably a better question to ask if Batman's No-Guns policy makes sense. You'd think that he would at least use some tranquilizer darts or something. Ranged combat with baterangs makes little sense.
Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Fantastic Four etc have all probably had major opportunities to kill their main villains, and completely choked when the time came.
I guess Blade kills his enemies, but they're vampries so that's a pretty good excuse.
It's probably a better question to ask if Batman's No-Guns policy makes sense. You'd think that he would at least use some tranquilizer darts or something. Ranged combat with baterangs makes little sense.
You know what I think? I think Batman won't kill his enemies cause deep down, he doesn't want Gotham to get better. After all these years, he's become so swept up in the performance art that is crime in Gotham City that he doesn't want it to end.
What a selfish jerk.
I don't know. I just don't think I feel safe with Superman and all his costumed buddies flying around. I mean, if they go bad, what's to stop them? I think I'd feel safer with someone like Mr. Luthor watching over us.
What a selfish jerk.
I don't know. I just don't think I feel safe with Superman and all his costumed buddies flying around. I mean, if they go bad, what's to stop them? I think I'd feel safer with someone like Mr. Luthor watching over us.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Red hood pls.
But not even Jason kills anymore. Now he just disables...albeit many times permanently.
revolverjgw
Member
He definitely could prevent more death and destruction by killing megamassmurderers like the Joker. He's already a crazy fucking violent masked vigilante. Whatever escalation is even POSSIBLE from this already completely insane situation can't be worse than letting these guys go free again and again to kill hundreds EACH and continue to spread terror and build criminal empires
Superman could kill Batman, no matter how much preparation Batman had. Even without a leadsuit, Superman could move around at light speed and simple run into Batman turning him into mist. Kryptonite wouldn't do shit to stop it.
I know this has nothing to do with this thread but I'm going to state this fact anyways. Besides Superman proved he's willing to kill in MoS. Batman is a mega puss and is as significant as a crab on supe's pubes.
I know this has nothing to do with this thread but I'm going to state this fact anyways. Besides Superman proved he's willing to kill in MoS. Batman is a mega puss and is as significant as a crab on supe's pubes.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Superman totally doesn't move at the speed of light.
And what happens if Superman snaps? Who's going to stop him
I mean you kind of describe the problem many people have with Superman, you're talking about an alien who's grown up and lived around humans his entire life and has all of their tendencies...expect rage, anger, deception, lust etc. Basically all of the bad things that make us humans (this is also why Smallville is so popular by extension). So nonsensical, and from Luther's perspective that's pretty scary. EVERYONE gets angry and does something reckless even Kryptonians.
And your comparison to police is pretty spot on, because those fuckers abuse their power like crazy.
And what happens if Superman snaps? Who's going to stop him
I mean you kind of describe the problem many people have with Superman, you're talking about an alien who's grown up and lived around humans his entire life and has all of their tendencies...expect rage, anger, deception, lust etc. Basically all of the bad things that make us humans (this is also why Smallville is so popular by extension). So nonsensical, and from Luther's perspective that's pretty scary. EVERYONE gets angry and does something reckless even Kryptonians.
And your comparison to police is pretty spot on, because those fuckers abuse their power like crazy.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Plenty of those you listed kill people. Hell, pretty much all of marvel does aside from spider-man. And wonder woman snaps necks like nobodys business.
I wouldn't say Superman has no bad qualities. He definitely is capable of anger and raging out; he can be self-righteous at times; he has a bit of a jealous streak when it comes to Lois; he thinks he has to solve all the world's problems, and doesn't know how to deal with the fact that even he can't do that.
The problem is that writers have latched onto the Christ allegories in Superman's origin and rather than just letting them be subtle allusions, have decided to just straight up make him Jesus in tights. Thankfully, DC has started to back off from that after it kind of hit critical mass in Grounded.
The problem is that writers have latched onto the Christ allegories in Superman's origin and rather than just letting them be subtle allusions, have decided to just straight up make him Jesus in tights. Thankfully, DC has started to back off from that after it kind of hit critical mass in Grounded.
MisterHero
Super Member
He doesn't have to kill anyone anymore. He can throw baddies into either the Phantom Zone or the Source Wall.
Why aren't their major villains dead then? In 50+ years they never had the chance to kill people like Magneto, Lex Luthor, Venom, etc? I guess it's fair to say they don't have an expressed no-kill policy in the same way that Batman does, but it's equally questionable why they can't pull the trigger on their most dangerous enemies.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
It's garbage. Pure and simple. Much like other "I don't kill no matter what" hero characters like Goku, Monkey D, and Naruto and garbage motherfuckers like that.
It's just childish to think that a lot of these sick fucks, who ENJOY doing what they do, are somehow going to be rehabilitated if they're shown mercy or turned over to the proper authorities. The fuck out of here.
I will never forget that episode of DBZ when Vegeta slaughtered the Ginyu Force the moment he got a chance. And of course Goku was all "VEGETA HOW COULD YOU!!!" like the child he is. Quick question, after Vegeta executed their sorry asses, how many planets did those members of the Ginyu Force enslave, or life they destroyed, or threaten after that? Yeah, exactly. It was the right move. Period.
Killing super villains like the Joker and shit will only make the world a safer place. People really need to stop over thinking this shit, coming up with absurd scenarios where this could somehow backfire epically. Over-analytical bullshit all of it.
It's just childish to think that a lot of these sick fucks, who ENJOY doing what they do, are somehow going to be rehabilitated if they're shown mercy or turned over to the proper authorities. The fuck out of here.
I will never forget that episode of DBZ when Vegeta slaughtered the Ginyu Force the moment he got a chance. And of course Goku was all "VEGETA HOW COULD YOU!!!" like the child he is. Quick question, after Vegeta executed their sorry asses, how many planets did those members of the Ginyu Force enslave, or life they destroyed, or threaten after that? Yeah, exactly. It was the right move. Period.
Killing super villains like the Joker and shit will only make the world a safer place. People really need to stop over thinking this shit, coming up with absurd scenarios where this could somehow backfire epically. Over-analytical bullshit all of it.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Wonder Woman kills when she has to.
everyone needs to read Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman run.
Superman totally doesn't move at the speed of light.
And what happens if Superman snaps? Who's going to stop him
I mean you kind of describe the problem many people have with Superman, you're talking about an alien who's grown up and lived around humans his entire life and has all of their tendencies...expect rage, anger, deception, lust etc. Basically all of the bad things that make us humans (this is also why Smallville is so popular by extension). So nonsensical, and from Luther's perspective that's pretty scary. EVERYONE gets angry and does something reckless even Kryptonians.
And your comparison to police is pretty spot on, because those fuckers abuse their power like crazy.
but what leads you to believe that Superman is going to snap? when was the last time you got mad? what did you do? punch a wall? a pillow? hurt someone? Superman, when Luthor got elected president, shattered one of Jupiter's moons in half. in other words, he found an outlet for his anger and let it out in a healthy manner. and also unlike a cop, he is independent of the politics of police that lead to such things as stop-and-frisk and racial profiling. he doesn't do those things.
now we all agreed that we all never mention grounded ever again .
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Dark Ninja
Member
I hate how everybody freeloads off Batman. He has to pay for the Justice League base, food, supplies and pay for destruction caused by them fuck them. Stop letting them take advantage of you Bruce.
funkystudent
Member
Ehh. I bet most of that stuff is paid by the tax payer.
Didnt the JL have a space station? I dont think Bruce could afford a space station.
T.M. MacReady
NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
I AM THE LAW
evil solrac v3.0
Member
not all the funding comes from him.... anyways most of the bases are built by hand, Superman catches a meteor full of metal, John Stewart builds the designs (he's an architect) and most of the tech is from Krypton/New Genesis/ Mr. Terrific stolen designs and so on. I think during Luthor's administration they did help fund the league so there is that...
Angelus Errare
Banned
Because despite the fact he's Kryptonian he still has human tendencies. And he shattered a moon and half and that doesn't scare you? I mean really what if one day he just says fuck Earth I'm tired of the whining and pulls a Superboy Prime on us?
I mean all it really takes is Lois being killed and he'd definitely snap and it wouldn't be some destroy a moon. Police aren't corrupt just because of politics that's just naive, many are corrupt because power corrupts.
HassanJamal
Member
Red hood pls.
Other than this very very interesting debate here, where is this from? It looks like something from The Batman 2004 cartoon series.
The reason why Batman's non-killing policy seems stupid is that the courts are stupid in comics and the jails are even more stupid. You can't keep a criminal locked up, you can't sentence him to the death penalty. Comic books need to provide a conflict for the guy in a costume, so they have to ignore how real people aren't dumbasses.
It's especially silly with the Joker, who would certainly not be getting by on insanity defense in an actual court. He's a sadistic mass murderer, he goes into maximum security and is killed the second he even thinks of breaking out.
It's especially silly with the Joker, who would certainly not be getting by on insanity defense in an actual court. He's a sadistic mass murderer, he goes into maximum security and is killed the second he even thinks of breaking out.
Vermillion
Banned
Joker was sentenced to the death penalty before, actually. But, IIRC, he didn't actually commit the crime and so Batman saved him. Like an idiot.
Ok, say Batman kills people, lets walk this through and see if it would be good for the character as he's been established today.
The super genius master of prep-time no longer has an issue with using guns or killing the villains. After a 12 issue limited series every criminal on earth is dead. Batman, now benevolent ruler of the planet, takes his crusade to the stars and the multiverse. We get like another year out of this, then all known realities live in safety and peace under the iron boot of Emperor Batman, the skies of every world patrolled by his army of Robo Bat-Police. Bruce then uses his unlimited resources to travel back in time and stop his parents from ever being killed. He then rescues all the criminals he's ever murdered from every timeline and "rehabilitates" them before they ever turn to crime. With every being in existence now immortal and provided for in this utopian society, Batman retires, gets married, and just sort of just hangs out inventing new flavours of ice cream.
This works for me, comics are expensive anyway.
The super genius master of prep-time no longer has an issue with using guns or killing the villains. After a 12 issue limited series every criminal on earth is dead. Batman, now benevolent ruler of the planet, takes his crusade to the stars and the multiverse. We get like another year out of this, then all known realities live in safety and peace under the iron boot of Emperor Batman, the skies of every world patrolled by his army of Robo Bat-Police. Bruce then uses his unlimited resources to travel back in time and stop his parents from ever being killed. He then rescues all the criminals he's ever murdered from every timeline and "rehabilitates" them before they ever turn to crime. With every being in existence now immortal and provided for in this utopian society, Batman retires, gets married, and just sort of just hangs out inventing new flavours of ice cream.
This works for me, comics are expensive anyway.
Moments like this do kinda add fuel to the Joker's crazy "You won't kill me cause you wuv me, Batman-kun" theory.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I laughed my ass off when Joker told him that.
The Silver
Member
Goku changed when he grew up and became a father, as a kid he was a mass murdering machine.
I suspect Chi-Chi's crazy ass also caused Goku to snap.
Vermillion
Banned
Lmao, it seems more and more true
Kageshinzo
Member
I was gonna post this.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
look, just because someone has a bad day doesn't mean they are going on a murderous rampage.
neither will Superman. if Luthor or Doomsday killed Lois tomorrow he's not going to take it out on the planet, he's going to take it out on those two. he's basically a sane, decent person.
and individual cops aren't the ones that come up with stop and frisk, it's the Mayor and the Commissioner (not Gordon
) I don't think cops go in the first day at the academy thinking their going to just bust heads. least the ones that I have known. come on, we can trust Superman, you gotta stop reading that Luthor propaganda.Horse Detective
Why the long case?
From a practical perspective, I don't really get it.
The ending of Silence of the Lambs kind of keeps me in that mode. I would rather time be spent on creating cool elaborate getaways of villains rather than some deep psychological struggle in the hero of whether or not someone deserves death.
That just isn't interesting to me as a viewer.
The ending of Silence of the Lambs kind of keeps me in that mode. I would rather time be spent on creating cool elaborate getaways of villains rather than some deep psychological struggle in the hero of whether or not someone deserves death.
That just isn't interesting to me as a viewer.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's, ahem, insane how they use it as a dramatic conflict, when the answer/solution is so damn transparently obvious.
Under The Red Hood actually made a really good point regarding this.
Batman's enemies have never ever been portrayed as anything other than one dimensional bad guys.
Especially the Joker.
Crimson-Death
Member
Well, in some comics it's stated how Wayne enterprises funds technology and rehabilitation and other manner of social welfare to prevent crime. But the writers should REALLY make a point of it and have Wayne take over the prison system as well as the mental institutions that hold the crazies. And yet the villains will always get out. The fans want it, the writers want it, DC editorial wants it, money talks and the business must keep going.
People may call it stupid all they want but the Joker and the rest are always going to come back for ever and ever because the comics are a never ending story impervious to our oh so obvious logic. New readers must experience the same characters despite our objections to continue the never-ending cycle.
And thus the modern Batman has developed his no-killing mantra. As the villains he fights have their own particular psychosis, Batman has his own now, that he will never kill, damn the consequences. Hilarity ensues. His reasons are pathological and show how screwed up he became after witnessing the murder of his parents. The best stories fully delve into all this and show us how crazy Bruce has become, despite fans claiming that it is all for justice, for the heroics, a valid interpretation as well.
Just because Batman stops them doesn't mean he also needs to kill them. He had no responsibility in the first place to do anything and he is not responsible for their actions. Or maybe he is responsible for the actions of his crazy adversaries? I'm still waiting for the one official story where Batman is forced to kill to save innocents, no close calls but actually forced to kill. It would be great to see the fallout.
oh yeah, superman's all about those healthy outlets, It's not like he'd murder someone in a fit of rage.
oh.
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
Even Kenshin does this. Makes sense.
Wiktor
Member
Yes. It's silly to me. Which is why I like Arrow so much.
But I just learned to live with it. It's just one of those weird superhero conventions you just need to accept, like characters never ageing. It just doesn't make much sense to kill a villain if the comic will be running for the next half a century.
But I just learned to live with it. It's just one of those weird superhero conventions you just need to accept, like characters never ageing. It just doesn't make much sense to kill a villain if the comic will be running for the next half a century.
oh yeah, superman's all about those healthy outlets, It's not like he'd murder someone in a fit of rage.
oh.
I was going to post a thread on that.
Woah!
Did since then some astronomer super villain appear? Because I can tell you, the astronomic community would be pissed.
CountBlack
Member
That's better
^ Whats this from?
Batman looks like the love of his life just died.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Latest JLA. Superman beats up Captain Marvel and kills a non rapey Dr.Light. But you know about them energy powered superheroes.
Vermillion
Banned
To be honest, the only villain he should kill is Joker.
NobleGundam
Banned
He has his reasons not to become a murder. "It would be too damn easy" - Batman
He knows once he goes into that Abyss he won't come out of it.
That's Jason Todd's (former Robin) role as the Red Hood became a Crime Lord and forced bribes and elaborately planned and staged almost all criminals to place a Hit on each other. Immediately upsetting that balance he played with them like puppets to show Bruce that His way was the only way in controlling Gotham. Batman didn't approve of this but he knew Jason became a Necessary evil.
Watch the Animated Movies "Under the Red Hood" & audiobook "No Man's Land"
And maybe "Flashpoint Paradox"
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I dunno, "it would be too easy" sounds like a bullshit reason. I think Bantman is just an egomaniac.
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