I get what you are saying, but I wouldnt call the Switch a mid gen refresh. Pretty sure Nintendo doesnt look at it like that either.
Since the Wii U has been discontinued.
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Can we, GAF, give a hard decision on this "generation"?
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I get what you are saying, but I wouldnt call the Switch a mid gen refresh. Pretty sure Nintendo doesnt look at it like that either.
Since the Wii U has been discontinued.
ChackanKun
Member
If the console future is going to be all compatible both forward and backwards then the concept of generations is gone. Just like PCs have no diferent generations.
geordiemp
Member
Switch is a handheld next generation.
However, 3rd party cross platform games tell us what generation of software a console fits in....Is switch getting ps4 level games gen 8 or ps3 level gen 7 games, or games that ps4 could not cope with (gen 9)/
Your answer is right there
nopenopenope
Member
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Last edited:
No it does not. Cross platform games are a relatively new thing, most consoles within a generation shared very few games. If we were to apply your rule, SNES and Genesis were separate generations, as were N64 and PlayStation.
The concept of "generation" was always meant as a broad categorization to help put together different console active during a similar period of time.
On a marketing level the concept was used to sell what was new, the next wave of hardware therefore all the silliness about "bit-ness".
Of course there are many interpretations of what a console generation should be but over time the console industry keep changing and consolidating therefore old definition or interpretation get disqualified.
For example Switch hybrid/modular approach is innovative and never seen before as is before thus all the confusion if the Switch is a handheld or home console (in reality the answer is both and neither
).
On a marketing level the concept was used to sell what was new, the next wave of hardware therefore all the silliness about "bit-ness".
Of course there are many interpretations of what a console generation should be but over time the console industry keep changing and consolidating therefore old definition or interpretation get disqualified.
For example Switch hybrid/modular approach is innovative and never seen before as is before thus all the confusion if the Switch is a handheld or home console (in reality the answer is both and neither
).RayearthRob
Member
Wii U/ Switch, Ps4/Pro, One/Scorpio
=
8 gen.
=
8 gen.
geordiemp
Member
Is switch console getting gen 7 (ps3/360) , Gen 8 (Ps4xb1) type games ?
Simple really, and cross plat has been normal for allot of years now, what Rock have you been under for 10 years.
Call of duty 3 was 2006 LMAO.
It was on ps3 / 360 and scaled back for a bit for Wii, also on prior gen Ps2 / Xbox etc
I've been gaming since gen 3, so yes, things that happened in 2006 are recent.
geordiemp
Member
You fairly young then. Zx81 here, what gen was that. Remember the cross platform Atari / Amiga times, good days man.
However, last 10 years is normal now for games releasing cross platform
Anyway, Switch is next gen handheld >> Vita / 3DS
However, as a home console its around 360 / ps3 as it seems to be getting games based on those versions, which for a handheld is damn good, but as a home console is not but understandable..
Manmademan
Member
This is nonsensical. SNES and Genesis had a shitload of cross platform games. They aren't new by any means.
Cross platform games were also extremely common in the Atari/intellivision era.
They were rare in the NES era due to Nintendo implementing anti competitive practices to prevent cross platform games, and when the PS1 and N64 were dominant since Nintendo's decision to stick with carts when the rest of the industry moved on to CDs meant cross platform games were impractical given Nintendo's market share.
PS4 Pro/Scorpio is Gen 8 unless Microsoft changes marketing for Scorpio (forwards compatibility for old xbox ones means it's same gen). Switch is gen 8 home console and gen 9 handheld.
Looking at botw, it's very clear that it's a generational leap from vita/3ds. But it's more or less on par with WiiU/ps4/xbone.
Looking at botw, it's very clear that it's a generational leap from vita/3ds. But it's more or less on par with WiiU/ps4/xbone.
geordiemp
Member
But why is it getting gen 7 ports of games ?
Its not a gen 8 console in terms of power or 3rd party demanding game ports (not indies), which we could list if we could be bothered.
Also have we had 9 generations of handhelds or more like 5-6 ? Switch and Shield certainly are the strongest handhelds.
Black Mantis
Member
Never used terms like 7th or 8th gen, stopped paying attention to such things after the 64-bit era.
Manmademan
Member
This is where I'm at. As we understand it, there won't be any software produced for the Pro or the Scorpio that won't run on the original PS4 or Xbone.
Therefore they aren't new generations. Just a way to run current gen software better.
The switch is probably best considered a handheld. As portable hardware it's a good bit past where the Vita was, but it's so far behind even the vanilla ps4 and xbone that it isn't going to be running any software that isn't a last gen port from the ps3. It's existence is entirely irrelevant to console software devs focused on ps4/Xbox/PC.
No we don't.
The Switch is hybrid so it's the first generation of Hybrid consoles.
That's the only answer I can think of.
It's getting ports from WiiU which was Gen8, and presumably running better (at least BotW does). I'm not sure if Skyrim is a Gen7 port, the Gen8 remasters or something in between (my money is on the latter, until DF or bethesda says something). It's all up to how nintendo can push this to 3rd parties, but seems it's much more capable and easier to develop for than WiiU was.
Sigh, another thread about this same topic.
No we don't.
We are still in the same gen that we were in 2014.
geordiemp
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1350594
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1351492
Its getting ps3 / 360 assets / textures etc. We will see in coming months, but power wise it seems WiiU, Switch / 360 / ps3 are not too far apart
I can't speak for Gen 2, although I do know there were a number of cross platform releases then, but Gen 4 SNES and Genesis only shared about a third of their library. It's up to you if you want to consider that a shitload or not that is up to you, but it is no where near the ~70 percent shared library of today (I'm considering games that are on PC but exclusive to console as "exclusive")
The market being dominated by cross platform games rather than exclusives is something that really started with gen 7 and the Xbox - Playstation hardware parity.
I am interested to see what Gen 1 and 2 cross platform software percentages were if you have them.
Manmademan
Member
The SNES had what, 700 games on it? A full third of that library being cross platform most certainly does count as a "shitload". Even speaking conservatively that's several hundred cross platform games.
The concept isn't new, and some of the definitive games of that era (street fighter II, mortal kombat, earthworm jim, Wolfenstein 3D) were multi platform, in addition to all the sports games that sell truckloads but GAF tends to overlook.
One thing you're overlooking when comparing that generation to the current one is that Japan was a stronger region back then, and the SNES and Genesis had big regional gaps in popularity.
The Genesis didn't have much traction in JP, so third party Japan centric titles like JRPGs were exclusive to the SNES by default. On the other hand the Genesis was overwhelmingly dominant in the US and got a flood of western third party titles that never made their way to the SNES.
JP is such a weak territory at the moment compared to the US/EU that this kind of scenario wouldn't repeat itself even if dev costs weren't at all time highs. Everything is being targeted at the western US/EU audience even JRPG staples like FF, so the weakness of the Xbox in that territory doesn't really matter when considering whether or not to make a cross platform port.
PyroPaperPlanes
Member
While the Nintendo Switch can connect to a TV in a slightly overclocked state, it's a handheld device. In regards to the 3DS, it's a new generation.
While handheld devices and home consoles have typically released within a similar time cycle to allow generations, we are at a point where the pace of technological advancements in mobile and home hardware are no longer at a consistent pace or release cycle.
In the end, generations are just a label we give to these systems. It's never been a perfect system (need I bring up the infamous Gameboy Colour debate?). Perhaps how we label these consoles simply needs to adapt, or even abandoned entirely.
While handheld devices and home consoles have typically released within a similar time cycle to allow generations, we are at a point where the pace of technological advancements in mobile and home hardware are no longer at a consistent pace or release cycle.
In the end, generations are just a label we give to these systems. It's never been a perfect system (need I bring up the infamous Gameboy Colour debate?). Perhaps how we label these consoles simply needs to adapt, or even abandoned entirely.
The Gorby Congressmanz
Banned
The concept of "generation" was always meant as a broad categorization to help put together different console active during a similar period of time.
On a marketing level the concept was used to sell what was new, the next wave of hardware therefore all the silliness about "bit-ness".
Of course there are many interpretations of what a console generation should be but over time the console industry keep changing and consolidating therefore old definition or interpretation get disqualified.
For example Switch hybrid/modular approach is innovative and never seen before as is before thus all the confusion if the Switch is a handheld or home console (in reality the answer is both and neither
The first part is correct. Originally it was based on time period until the generations were wrecked and the 5200, colecovision were moved to 2nd gen. Now everyone just makes up their own definition.
JetSetRadio
Banned
PS4 pro, wiiu pro, xbox one pro.
Kageshinzo
Member
You can consider it a handheld portable if you want, but Nintendo and the the industry considers it the successor of the Wii U and Nintendo's next console. The fact that it may not be getting ports of PS4 or XBO multiplatform games is irrelevant as it is still getting its own (exclusive) games, and software quality/level has never been a serious indicator of what generation a console is.
It is the console after the Wii U, which is 8th gen, so it is a 9th gen hardware. It's that simple.
Fbh
Member
EDIT...fuck... wanted to make a thread not write a reply
Anyway on topic.
Honestly, the whole idea of generation is dying. Sony just released their mid gen update, MS seems even more invested in the idea, Nintendo has been doing its own generational jumps that aren't really related to what sony and MS are doing.
If you really want to stick with gens I guess you sort of would define it by what the market leader is doing. Which this gen is Sony.
So I'd put everything releasing on the same period as the Ps4/pro as one gen and then jump to the next when the Ps5 releases
Anyway on topic.
Honestly, the whole idea of generation is dying. Sony just released their mid gen update, MS seems even more invested in the idea, Nintendo has been doing its own generational jumps that aren't really related to what sony and MS are doing.
If you really want to stick with gens I guess you sort of would define it by what the market leader is doing. Which this gen is Sony.
So I'd put everything releasing on the same period as the Ps4/pro as one gen and then jump to the next when the Ps5 releases
Incompatibility among the systems kind of muddies the water, but Switch is essentially Nintendo pushing the emergency stop on Wii U's crappy market situation with a system that takes some of the main general concepts Wii U tried to sell (off-TV play, touch-screen tablet gaming, support for motion games with Wii-like controls) and refines them into something much more compelling and functional (off-TV play works more than 20 feet from your TV, a tablet with a non-embarrassing resolution, motion controllers that are part of the system rather than requiring ownership of peripherals not in the base system package). I wouldn't really classify it as a generational leap so much as a reset button.
In the end, though, I'd say it rests on how its lifespan coincides with the lifespan of consoles with a more definitive generational demarcation line. If the PS5/Xbox Negative Two come out and the Switch is still chugging along as Nintendo's main focus for 3-4 years into those systems' lifespans, history won't have much of a problem classifying it as part of the same gen. If those systems hit and then Nintendo launches a Switch replacement a year later, not so much.
In the end, though, I'd say it rests on how its lifespan coincides with the lifespan of consoles with a more definitive generational demarcation line. If the PS5/Xbox Negative Two come out and the Switch is still chugging along as Nintendo's main focus for 3-4 years into those systems' lifespans, history won't have much of a problem classifying it as part of the same gen. If those systems hit and then Nintendo launches a Switch replacement a year later, not so much.
Manmademan
Member
and I do, because it pretty much is
Nintendo might, but "the industry" as a whole is taking either a wait and see approach, or ignoring it entirely. It's third party support is horrific even by Nintendo standards.
and here's where we disagree. A Generation doesn't "start" because someone released a new piece of hardware. Otherwise the new generation would have started with the PS4 Pro. It's the successor to the PS4, isn't it? Note that atari released TWO consoles that are both classed as "second generation systems." The 2600 and the 5200.
dividing console hardware into generational "classes" generally happens when hardware is released that pushes the industry as a whole into a new direction, one which the previous class of hardware is unable to accomodate.
The NES, The Genesis, the 3D0, the Dreamcast, the Xbox360, and the PS4 all meet that criteria.
The switch quite frankly doesn't for the same reason the PS4 Pro doesn't. it's not capable of running any software that isn't possible on the current class of hardware, or even hardware a generation prior.
It's a new console from nintendo, sure- but not one that advances the console industry in any meaningful way. It's the Atari 5200 of nintendo consoles.
humansarehorses
Member
The Switch isn't part of any console generation because it's not a home console. It's a handheld with a glorified TV out that scratches screens.
Pro is still part of the 8th gen. Scorpio might start a new gen depending on the leap.
Pro is still part of the 8th gen. Scorpio might start a new gen depending on the leap.
Eolz
Member
That's not how it works lol.
humansarehorses
Member
Sure, of course not. There's some universal guidelines handed down from above, right?
Not like this isn't all arbitrarily determined.
The Gorby Congressmanz
Banned
Intellvision was 16-bit. How does this work? Also Xbox was 32-bit wasn't it?
Quintin DM
Member
I feel like console generations are kind of worthless at this point.
Eolz
Member
Generations have never been (mainly) about power. It's a lot more about timeframes and changes to the previous generation.
Handhelds also fit in the same generation as consoles.
As mentioned last time this topic came up, it depends on marketing and timeline. If Scorpio is marketed as a new console rather than an upgrade then this means we went enter generation 8.
If it is not, they are all generation 7. Multiple consoles from the same company have appeared in the same generation before.
Basically, it's all relative and trying to figure out that answer now is a pointless argument.
If it is not, they are all generation 7. Multiple consoles from the same company have appeared in the same generation before.
Basically, it's all relative and trying to figure out that answer now is a pointless argument.
humansarehorses
Member
Never said it was. The right way to understand my comment is that what I consider a separate generation is partly determined by power.
Nope. People separate handhelds into their own generations and they're doing that in this thread (hell, just read the OP).
But go on and tell me all about how this "works".
Theslammer
Member
We're still in the PS4/XBO generation lol
Cipher Peon
Banned
PS4 and Xbox One are last gen consoles!
It'll take a while for me to get used to saying that though, hehehehe
It'll take a while for me to get used to saying that though, hehehehe
megametaman
Member
I remember growing up I loved basketball so much when my dad got me a basketball hoop in my driveway I counted all my "points". I got up to 800 and thought, "How long is this going to last?"
Then I stopped counting.
Then I stopped counting.
Pokemaniac
Member
PS4 Pro and Scorpio don't have their own exclusive games, which is something that even Nintendo's stopgap handhelds (Game Boy Color, DSi, New 3DS) had. They are definitely still gen 8.
The thing is, while Switch fits the obvious profile of what the first gen 9 machine would look like, the way things are currently working out, I have some serious doubts that a proper gen 9 will ever really occur.
128-bit CPUs simply aren't a thing that currently exists in any meaningful way. There still hasn't been a generation where all hardware released was 64-bit (Gen 9, if it exists, will probably be the first).
The thing is, while Switch fits the obvious profile of what the first gen 9 machine would look like, the way things are currently working out, I have some serious doubts that a proper gen 9 will ever really occur.
128-bit CPUs simply aren't a thing that currently exists in any meaningful way. There still hasn't been a generation where all hardware released was 64-bit (Gen 9, if it exists, will probably be the first).
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