I mess this up all the time.
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Can we please address this "then/than" issue?
- Thread starter IHaveCandy
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I don't think that a majority of people use "I could care less" in a sarcastic way. Also as a non native speaker, would you mind explaining why you think that "head over heels" is the wrong idiom?
People mostly say "like I give a damn" I think, and this is obviously sarcastic.
I think it's the "like" part that makes it obviously sarcastic.
Canis lupus
Member
My first ever English class teached me the difference between then/than and their/they're/there, its one of the few things that has always stuck with me.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Just not the difference between "taught" and "teached".
Sorry man, cheap shot. Anyway, who am I to talk? I don't know a scrap of Shadow Mosesian.
Sarcasm often occurs when the speaker is saying something that means the opposite of what he/she says.
Sarcastic phrasing often just becomes the opposite meaning, without the person knowing the sarcastic origin of the phrasing. Think about the phrase "tell me about it" or "fat chance."
You should be heels over head if you've fallen over. You are already head over heels. The original expression was heels over head:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/head_over_heels
You've never heard "I could give a damn" or "I could give a fuck" or "I could give a shit"? It's very common. Even without the "like." The closing of arguments can end with "And I could give a damn if/about X."
Wanna know what's way more annoying than simple grammar mistakes pointed out by nerds (who oftentimes make posts fraught with mistakes)?
When someone completely understand what someone else was trying to convey (which is the entire point of language), but is still a complete and total ass about some convention. It's analogous to that douche Law student carrying the gun who recorded his conversation with that police officer.
If it's so bad you don't know what someone is trying to say, that's one thing. But if you're just complaining to feed your superiority complex, stop.
Don't be a douchebag.
When someone completely understand what someone else was trying to convey (which is the entire point of language), but is still a complete and total ass about some convention. It's analogous to that douche Law student carrying the gun who recorded his conversation with that police officer.
If it's so bad you don't know what someone is trying to say, that's one thing. But if you're just complaining to feed your superiority complex, stop.
Don't be a douchebag.
No, because there are better ways to convey the same thought. I don't hear "I could/couldn't care less" much either.
This is why I voted for you instead of blame space.
Escape Goat
Member
I love you, too, ShadyBiz.
NinjaBoiX
Member
You can control the language that you hear spoken by others?
Escape Goat
Member
Lets not waist our time arguing.
NinjaBoiX
Member
I agree with Timedog that correcting inconsequential mistakes is just being pedantic. But when someone misinterprets a phrase entirely, it's different.
"I could care less" is a good example. That phrase basically says, "I care more than I probably should", which is the exact opposite intent of the phrase.
"I could care less" is a good example. That phrase basically says, "I care more than I probably should", which is the exact opposite intent of the phrase.
cutmeamango
Banned
Learn to right you commies.
No...?
Might as well throw in my pet grammar issue, which is when people say "different than," like "I'm different than they are." "Than" only actually works in directly comparative statements, like "I'm more talented than you are." Things are "different from" each other. Nobody else seems to care about this, though, so I just use these threads to vent.
How is that a good example?
Have you ever misunderstood the intent when someone said/wrote that?
I ask if you've ever heard a type of phrasing, and you reply with, "No, because there are better ways to convey the same thought."
That only makes sense if you can control the language you hear or read. What does the "quality" of language have to do with whether you hear it or not? I hear "ain't" and double negatives all the time, even if its not how I personally speak.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I have actually started to doubt my own grammar with so many grammatical mistakes on the internet.
I thought that this was taught in most schools. In those that teach English at least, I would understand if a non-English speaker had this problem.
Still bothers me though.
I thought that this was taught in most schools. In those that teach English at least, I would understand if a non-English speaker had this problem.
Still bothers me though.
NinjaBoiX
Member
No, but they sound like an idiot. They are saying the exact opposite of what they mean.
It's totally different to improper syntax and grammar.
As it was pointed already like 3 times in thread, how is it different than saying "head over heels"?
That's language man, it evolves, and not all idioms makes sense on a strict literal level.
NinjaBoiX
Member
What do you mean? What's wrong with "head over heels"?
No it doesn't. Besides, I'm not talking about language that I hear on television or read on the internet. I'm talking about how I hear people speak around me.
The reason I say there are better ways to convey a thought is because I don't hear, or use, a particular type of phrasing.
Edit: Also, I don't recall ever bring up "quality." I call certain phrases better because they flow better and are easier to understand and say.
When you fall "head over heels", you don't fall at all, you're standing upright.
The term should be falling "heels over head", which is the way it used to be.
As long as I understand what the writer means/intends, bad grammar doesn't bother me too much. But most people should know better and it only requires reviewing what you wrote to correct any mistakes. That some don't even realize their mistakes is probably a bigger worry though.
Only thing that does bother me is when people always wrote loose for lose, but thankfully, I'm seeing that less regularly now.
Only thing that does bother me is when people always wrote loose for lose, but thankfully, I'm seeing that less regularly now.
NinjaBoiX
Member
:'(
NinjaBoiX
Member
Fixed.
I don't know how you can say you don't hear certain phrasing because there are better ways to convey a thought, unless you can control what you hear.
A: You've never heard people use double negatives or the word, "ain't"?
B: No, because there are better ways to convey the same thought.
This can only be true if you can control the language you encounter, which includes what you see and hear on TV and the Internet.
I get that language is fluid and majority eventually rules, but it still drives me nuts. Just let me vent in peace.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
There not to annoying, I don't mind much, better than when people don't even put effort into their typing. It doesn't effect me at all anyways.
Haha, but seriously, I still have trouble with to and too, the others are easy, but sometimes I have to think of which to or too to use in a sentance.
Haha, but seriously, I still have trouble with to and too, the others are easy, but sometimes I have to think of which to or too to use in a sentance.
ArachosiA 78
Member
The one grammar mistake that drives me bonkers is when people say something along the lines of, "How do the graphics look like?"
I'm not refering to what I read on the internet. If I were I would've included the language I read, not hear, in my original post.
Edit: Also, I don't watch much TV, but when I do, it's fictional shows. Fiction doesn't exactly describe how people speak to each other in real life well.
I'll just copy and paste this in hear.
"Ain't" isn't really something that doesn't flow well or is difficulty to understand/say. I also don't here the word "miscellaneous" used much. Why? There are better and easier ways to say the same thing.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
I always mentally cringe a bit when someone is grammatically incorrect, but I'm more bothered by redundancies. Things such as:
- but yet
- added bonus
- and plus
- brief moment
- each and every
- exact same
Phrasing used in fiction definitely influences language, people quote and mimic things they hear all the time, and literary allusions are commonplace in speech.
I don't think you can say you don't hear things because there are better ways of phrasing things, unless you are always hearing optimized language.
Phrasing used in fiction (maybe what I watch) is often pretty cheesy. The kind of things I couldn't imagine myself saying in real life.
I believe I can because what these better ways are, is subjective. I often hear things like "He's really stupid" instead of "He is very stupid." When I stop to think about it I come to the conclusion that the former sounds sounds a lot better than the latter. In other words, I think one is a better form of expressing your thoughts than the other.
I totally forgot to check the good old wiktionary, thank you.
I believe I am clear on the concept of sarcasm, I just don't think I have ever seen someone use "I could care less" in such fashion. Or rather I have only seen it obviously used sarcastically in order to point out that someone else used it wrong.
While it's obvious that language constantly evolves, idioms that are illogically do make things rather confusing. As such I'm a fan of using them in a logical way and by extension trying to keep illogical use by others. (Although I can't be bothered to actually act on that impulse more than once per year.) And as a non native speaker: When I first read some illogical idioms I was seriously confused by what the author meant to convey. Still am sometimes.
Alex Connolly
Member
Love your work, Sapient. Bravo, sir!
cutmeamango
Banned
The outcome was different
"ATM machine" and "PIN number" may look silly, but they happen for non-silly reasons, so don't get fucked!
Wickerbasket
Member
It doesn't even make sense as sarcasm either though, it doesn't quantify how much you care at all. You could care a whole lot or not at all given the statement 'I could care less'. The statement means nothing and gives no information, sarcasm or not.
The example you gave 'I could give a damn' is more similar in the mistaken language, and for that reason, also makes no sense. It makes sense that people who would make that mistake would use the mistake in similar situations.
However, trying to compare it to other examples where there was no other original phrase in use is disingenuous at best. In the example you gave, "head over heels", it is a statement of elation that when taken literally makes no sense, however, it has never been "heels over head" and it doesn't quantify how much you are elated by. Phrases that make no literal sense are coined all the time, but that doesn't mean you should let people wallow in ignorance when they reproduce a phrase wrongly.
Edit: I didn't realise "head over heels" was "heels over head" in the 14th century but my point remains, don't let people wallow in ignorance. The phrase 'i could give a damn' hasn't evolved over centuries, it's just people reproducing it wrongly.
Grinchy
Banned
You know what else is really annoying? Could of. I could of gone to the store, but than I didn't.
I think the reason these tiny grammar mistakes are annoying to people is because there is really no excuse for a native english-speaking high school graduate to still be confused about it. We're not talking about high-level grammar here, we're talking about knowing the difference between "you are" and "your." If you don't know the difference, don't get angry at people who are pointing out that you don't know the difference. Just go learn it in 10 seconds like all the other 10 year olds did while you were smacking yourself in the face with your trapper keeper.
I think the reason these tiny grammar mistakes are annoying to people is because there is really no excuse for a native english-speaking high school graduate to still be confused about it. We're not talking about high-level grammar here, we're talking about knowing the difference between "you are" and "your." If you don't know the difference, don't get angry at people who are pointing out that you don't know the difference. Just go learn it in 10 seconds like all the other 10 year olds did while you were smacking yourself in the face with your trapper keeper.
It does convey information, especially given context--when someone says "You could lose some pounds," they don't mean that you exist in a range of a little bit over zero weight and overweight; in the sarcastic context, it could mean that the person is too skinny. "You could drive slower," has many different meanings depending on context as well--in the sarcastic context, it's saying "you should drive faster."
You could also argue that "head over heels" isn't a case of language evolution, it's just a case of people reproducing it wrongly.
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