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[RedSwirl]

Only saw it once... not interested in watching it again because of that emo darth vader wanna be "villain".

That's kind of the whole point behind Kylo Ren. He's the biggest Vader fanboy ever but can never be Vader. Rey said it herself. I kinda like that they did that.

My big problem with TFA is how it almost completely nullifies everything that happened in the OT without any explanation as to why things are that way.

In what way did The New Republic fail? Who are The First Order and how the hell did they rise to power? In what way is The Resistance different than The Rebellion? Why did every main character of the OT just kinda give up on each other when Ben turned to the Dark Side, wouldn't that bring them more together? Why are Jedi considered a myth in the Universe when 20 years ago a Jedi saved the Universe from The Empire? Hell, less than 50 year before TFA there still was an actual Jedi Order who acted as Galaxy Police, surely people would know about that?

And sure, some of these things have answers in the new EU or will maybe be answered in the coming films, but these are major plot points. I shouldn't be required to read some mediocre novel or wait two years for a sequel to get the basic information needed to make the first films plot believable.

All that is explained in other material (comics)... which is the whole problem. I feel like a little bit of that should have had a few lines devoted to it in TFA itself, like the council scene between Tarkin, Vader, and the Imperial officers early in ANH.

 

[karnage10]

All that is explained in other material (comics)... which is the whole problem. I feel like a little bit of that should have had a few lines devoted to it in TFA itself, like the council scene between Tarkin, Vader, and the Imperial officers early in ANH.

i didn't know this. Any way i can read a summary of what happened before the TFA to make the movie have more sense?

 

[Surfinn]

I've always been surprised at the hate for Kylo. He's easily one of, if not the most, compelling components of TFA. Among many things the film does right

 

[Llyranor]

I almost wish his helmet had a fedora shape.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I've always been surprised at the hate for Kylo. He's easily one of, if not the most, compelling components of TFA. Among many things the film does right

Vader made an impression that was hard to follow in terms of SW villians.

Dude has been firmly part of pop culture for the last 40 years.

Even though Ren is kinda on the nose in regard to struggling with burden to be greater than Vader (it's such a wink at the audience) a lot of people just didn't like him.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I've always been surprised at the hate for Kylo. He's easily one of, if not the most, compelling components of TFA. Among many things the film does right

Kylo Ren is fucking awesome. Like the movie itself, it is a vocal minority that don't like him.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Kylo Ren is fucking awesome. Like the movie itself, it is a vocal minority that don't like him.

Most people I have talked to about him that are SW fans are indifferent. I have exactly one friend who thinks he is "fucking awesome".

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Vader made an impression that was hard to follow in terms of SW villians.

Dude has been firmly part of pop culture for the last 40 years.

Even though Ren is kinda on the nose in regard to struggling with burden to be greater than Vader (it's such a wink at the audience) a lot of people just didn't like him.

Kylo Ren is fucking awesome. Like the movie itself, it is a vocal minority that don't like him.

Most people I have talked to about him that are SW fans are indifferent. I have exactly one friend who thinks he is "fucking awesome".

Some of you seem not to understand people might not like the character himself. Yeah, he can be well acted and have depth, but I feel like if it was the same character (whiny, easily annoyed/frustrated, "edgy" fanboy) in any other story you guys ridicule him, but because it's SW that you enjoy it

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Why did you quote me? I'm not defending the "We like Kylo" crowd.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Why would you want to divorce him from his specific role in the specific series being discussed though?

It's the same shit I was mentioning earlier where people try to minimize the success of a sequel by pushing that whole "Yeah, but if this wasn't a sequel, and someone had to just watch this as their intro, could they keep up?" metric as if it's actually useful.

Part of why Kylo Ren is an interesting character to discuss with other fans is because he's a metatextual commentary on shitty fans.

Of course some fans are going to recoil at seeing the worst aspects of themselves blown up and made to look foolish.

(mornin' everybody. or afternoon. The sun went out earlier, so my sense of time is all goofed)

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Most people I have talked to about him that are SW fans are indifferent. I have exactly one friend who thinks he is "fucking awesome".

That's cool. Meanwhile...

 

[ryutaro's mama]

That's cool. Meanwhile...

Oh wow!

Did you know there was a spike in the name Bella, Jacob and Edward too? What about Khalessi?

I mean, what the fuck are you even saying?

It's a cool sounding name so people name their kids that name.

 

[Meowster]

I've always been surprised at the hate for Kylo. He's easily one of, if not the most, compelling components of TFA. Among many things the film does right

I think Kylo is really interesting because he is obviously incredibly powerful (being able to completely freeze blaster fire and people) but his own insecurities make him look pathetically weak. If he can ever get past that.. he could become quite the menace. That entire duel between him and Rey showed he was quite the ferocious duelist too.

 

[Lagunamov]

I couldn't finish the second watch. Rogue one is my 4th rewatch and counting on...

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I watched the movie once and I think that's enough.

I thought Rogue One was the better movie.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Did you know there was a spike in the name Bella, Jacob and Edward too? What about Khalessi?

I mean, what the fuck are you even saying?

Ryu, you can't support your argument by saying "well, here's some anecdotal evidence of the man's lack of popularity based on conversations with friends" and then suggest that anecdotal evidence of popularity is bullshit when presented with someone else's counterexample.

"Well, look. People just don't like him. I know, I've talked to people."
"Well here's a whole bunch of people who named their kid after h-"
"WHO CARES I mean, TWILIGHT was popular SO WHAT"

 

[Peltz]

Have you watched The Phantom Menace recently?

Yes, about 1.5 years ago. It's garbage. What's you're point?

By the way, I am talking about the prequels as a whole vs. TFA as a whole (which is perhaps unfair). I do think PM is the worst of the bunch though.

 

[JayTapp]

I watched the movie once and I think that's enough.

I thought Rogue One was the better movie.

I'll never understand this statement.

On the characters alone, TFA is miles ahead of Rogue.

 

[Vagabundo]

He was great until he took his helmet off, then he was just that guy from Girls.

 

[Surfinn]

Vader made an impression that was hard to follow in terms of SW villians.

Dude has been firmly part of pop culture for the last 40 years.

Even though Ren is kinda on the nose in regard to struggling with burden to be greater than Vader (it's such a wink at the audience) a lot of people just didn't like him.

I think that's kind of the point, in a way, that his impression is hard to follow. He was unique, and his grandson is just a poser, enveloped in the shadow of Vader. It's partly what makes Kylo so compelling. In the same way Vader's been a pop culture icon for the last 40 years, he's had the same influence inside of the SW universe itself.

Kylo's lost. He's weak. And now he's barreling down a destructive path he didn't intend to follow because of his decisions.

Kylo Ren is fucking awesome. Like the movie itself, it is a vocal minority that don't like him.

Very true

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Oh wow!

Did you know there was a spike in the name Bella, Jacob and Edward too? What about Khalessi?

I mean, what the fuck are you even saying?

It's a cool sounding name so people name their kids that name.

What's funny is, I almost brought up this exact point. You are exactly right, Bella became massively popular after millions of people fell in love with the character in books and movies. I, in fact, find the character and stories she is contained in to be complete trash. But, I am well aware that my personal opinion, or how much anecdotal evidence I throw out there to support said opinion, doesn't change the fact that those millions of people still loved the character.

Meanwhile, a lot of you cling to your personal opinions so much, you can't believe most people loved something you didn't. That inability to see past yourself is just astounding to me. Nah, people didn't like Kylo Ren. Oh, this evidence to the contrary that shows people loved the character so much they actually started naming their children after him (and notably no one else from the movie)? Fuck it. Doesn't mean shit, 'cause the people I talked to also didn't like him. That trumps any actual data brought forward.

People wouldn't name their child that if they didn't like the character. No one is like "fuck it, I thought the character sucked, but that name is cool! Just, come on.

Some of you seem not to understand people might not like the character himself. Yeah, he can be well acted and have depth, but I feel like if it was the same character (whiny, easily annoyed/frustrated, "edgy" fanboy) in any other story you guys ridicule him, but because it's SW that you enjoy it

I was just thinking the other day about how much I love Marty McFly. But, I bet if I put him in Saving Private Ryan, I'd probably not enjoy him as much. So, fuck it. He's a shit character.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Ryu, you can't support your argument by saying "well, here's some anecdotal evidence of the man's lack of popularity based on conversations with friends" and then suggest that anecdotal evidence of popularity is bullshit when presented with someone else's counterexample.

"Well, look. People just don't like him. I know, I've talked to people."
"Well here's a whole bunch of people who named their kid after h-"
"WHO CARES I mean, TWILIGHT was popular SO WHAT"

When did I say he wasn't popular? I said that someone naming their kid a cool sounding name isn't indicative or proof of popularity.

The name could be popular.

People wouldn't name their child that if they didn't like the character. No one is like "fuck it, I thought the character sucked, but that name is cool! Just, come on.

People have all kinds of weird reasons for choosing names...some of which are IT SOUNDS COOL.
Again, indifference about a character =/= it sucked.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think that's kind of the point, in a way, that his impression is hard to follow. He was unique, and Kylo is just a poser, enveloped in the shadow of Vader. It's partly what makes him so compelling. In the same way Vader's been a pop culture icon for the last 40 years, he's got the same influence in the SW universe.

Kylo's lost. He's weak. And now he's barreling down a destructive path he didn't intend because of his decisions.

Very true

I think TLJ will show him trying to step out from under that shadow fully, which will just make him even more dangerous, and less stable. Kylo going full Kylo, not trying to fit into Vader's mold, will be scary as hell.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Yes, about 1.5 years ago. It's garbage. What's you're point?

By the way, I am talking about the prequels as a whole vs. TFA as a whole (which is perhaps unfair). I do think PM is the worst of the bunch though.

My point was The Phantom Menace isn't more 'original' than TFA. It shares a lot of similarities with A New Hope.

Comparing the whole trilogy to TFA is a bit unfair at this point, yeah.

 

[Surfinn]

I think TLJ will show him trying to step out from under that shadow fully, which will just make him even more dangerous, and less stable. Kylo going full Kylo, not trying to fit into Vader's mold, will be scary as hell.

Yup, I think he's gunna create a black hole of destructive power.

 

[Kyoufu]

Rey is losing a hand/arm in TLJ right?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

When did I say he wasn't popular? I said that someone naming their kid a cool sounding name isn't indicative or proof of popularity.

The name could be popular.



People have all kinds of weird reasons for choosing names...some of which are IT SOUNDS COOL.
Again, indifference about a character =/= it sucked.

Seriously, the fact you are trying to argue that his name becoming a popular name in the real fucking world isn't proof people loved him as a character just shows how lost in your own opinion you are. Like, there is nothing anyone could even say in response.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I watched the movie once and I think that's enough.

Yeah, I saw it twice in a 3 day window. 1st was the Thursday opening and the 2nd was that following Sunday.

By the time the credits rolled, I was done. Since then, I have had several opportunities to watch again. No interest.

Seriously, the fact you are trying to argue that his name becoming a popular name in the real fucking world isn't proof people loved him as a character just shows how lost in your own opinion you are. Like, there is nothing anyone could even say in response.

Sounds good. We can end this exchange.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I'll never understand this statement.

On the characters alone, TFA is miles ahead of Rogue.

While it has the characters, it's still basically a remake of the original Star Wars. Rogue One, while it's a prequel to the original Star Wars, actually felt like its own movie and I was entertained by it. In general though, I'm okay with watching Star Wars movies only once.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Rey is losing a hand/arm in TLJ right?

If I were to bet, I'd say Kylo is the most likely to keep getting fucked up. Gotta keep the poetry going. The Skywalker has to lose the limbs, not the Kenobi.

 

[Gunslinger]

I can already see luke getting destoryed by kylo ren in TLJ then Godlike Rey pop out of nowhere and obliterate kylo ren once again.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I can already see luke getting destoryed by kylo ren in TLJ then Godlike Rey pop out of nowhere and obliterate kylo ren once again.

That wouldn't shock me based on where this is headed.

Rey turning heel would be the only thing that would legit shock me.

Her being linked genetically to the Skywalkers or Kenobi?

Ugh.

 

[Surfinn]

She got knocked out against a tree in 3 seconds by Kylo Ren

She's not being trained by Snoke right now because Finn stepped in to save her ass.

 

[elrechazado]

Kylo Ren is fucking awesome. Like the movie itself, it is a vocal minority that don't like him.

I don't really love the movie, but I found kylo refreshing and one of the few new things that tfa brought to the table

 

[Kyoufu]

If I were to bet, I'd say Kylo is the most likely to keep getting fucked up. Gotta keep the poetry going. The Skywalker has to lose the limbs, not the Kenobi.

Yeah, good point. I feel bad for Benjamin Skywalker.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Rey turning heel would be the only thing that would legit shock me.

Would that really be a good thing though?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

If we're at the fan fiction portion of the thread, in my version, there is no fucking way Kylo can take on Luke. Luke is like the Charles Xavier character. He's so powerful, you have to find a way to write him out of the big conflict.

And to be clear, I was joking about the Kenobi thing. We all know she is Palpatine's offspring.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

She got knocked out against a tree in 3 seconds by Kylo Ren

She's not being trained by Snoke right now because Finn stepped in to save her ass.

I don't remember...did Snoke even show interest in training her? Was it overt on his part at all?

 

[JB1981]

Part of why Kylo Ren is an interesting character to discuss with other fans is because he's a metatextual commentary on shitty fans.

I suppose that's interesting discussion as an academic exercise like on a message board or film studies class but it's not dramatically interesting.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't remember...did Snoke even show interest in training her? Was it overt on his part at all?

"If what you say about this girl is true.. bring her to me."

I mean it's an inference, but if he just wanted her dead, he would have just told Kylo to kill her ass

Keep in mind, he also commanded Hux to bring Kylo to him so he could complete his training.

 

[elrechazado]

If we're at the fan fiction portion of the thread, in my version, there is no fucking way Kylo can take on Luke. Luke is like the Charles Xavier character. He's so powerful, you have to find a way to write him out of the big conflict.

And to be clear, I was joking about the Kenobi thing. We all know she is Palpatine's offspring.

But Luke is like, broken and reluctant and stuff apparently.
Also old and a bit pudgy and dumpy.

 

[Gunslinger]

If we're at the fan fiction portion of the thread, in my version, there is no fucking way Kylo can take on Luke. Luke is like the Charles Xavier character. He's so powerful, you have to find a way to write him out of the big conflict.

And to be clear, I was joking about the Kenobi thing. We all know she is Palpatine's offspring.

Luke is probably nerfed to the ground now since EU doesn't count anymore. He is probably at obiwan level strong at most. I wouldn't be surprised if Luke already got destoryed by snoke and went into hiding like Yoda. Don't expect too much out of this new trilogy. At least the TLJ looks visually very different. Only reason got me excited.

I can see Rey defeating snoke and kylo ren both as Luke would probably die in episode 9. I think based on the potential shown in ep 7 trained Rey is probably the strongest force user ever.

 

[DeathyBoy]

While it has the characters, it's still basically a remake of the original Star Wars. Rogue One, while it's a prequel to the original Star Wars, actually felt like its own movie and I was entertained by it. In general though, I'm okay with watching Star Wars movies only once.

I keep forgetting that A New Hope had a Stormtrooper turn good.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Would that really be a good thing though?

It would be the "oh shit" that GL failed miserably to pull off with Anakin. Partly because we knew in advance Anakin's fate but also partly cause of shit writing.

Rey has no such baggage so her actually falling after being so hopeful and positive would have people legit shook.

Hypothetically speaking, it could have been triggered by her abandonment and sense of loss and betrayal. I'm not putting on a writing cap for details but you get the point.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

I only saw this movie once, but I remember thinking that Rey was too poweful at the end and Kylo was too weak. I also disliked the new Yoda-ish female alien and the the goofy Sarlac chase scene on the spaceship.
Kylos actor was miscast too. The guy has a very distinct face and him being the product of Han and Leia was not believable for me at all.

 

[Surfinn]

It would be the "oh shit" that GL failed miserably to pull off with Anakin. Partly because we knew in advance Anakin's fate but also partly cause of shit writing.

Rey has no such baggage so her actually falling after being so hopeful and positive would have people legit shook.

Hypothetically speaking, it could have been triggered by her abandonment and sense of loss and betrayal. I'm not putting on a writing cap for details but you get the point.

IMO, Rey turning defeats a lot of her character development established in TFA. Even Anakin showed significant signs of darkness at half her age.

I keep forgetting that A New Hope had a Stormtrooper turn good.

Careful not to point out originality in TFA. It makes people upset

And ESPECIALLY don't make a list

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I keep forgetting that A New Hope had a Stormtrooper turn good.

Welp... I'm out.

I'm with you in spirit. But, you are going down a path not worth the energy.

 

[elrechazado]

I only saw this movie once, but I remember thinking that Rey was too poweful at the end and Kylo was too weak. I also disliked the new Yoda-ish female alien and the the goofy Sarlac chase scene on the spaceship.
Kylos actor was miscast too. The guy has a very distinct face and him being the product of Han and Leia was not believable for me at all.

Dark side gives you doofus face syndrome.

Maul, Vader, palpatine, all fugly. It's like poetry.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I suppose that's interesting discussion as an academic exercise like on a message board or film studies class but it's not dramatically interesting.

But I'm specifically talking about discussing him with other fans.

Seriously, what is it with this thread and the near compulsion to try and remove relevant context from the discussion?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

IMO, Rey turning defeats a lot of her character development established in TFA.

I don't think that is true at all. If her fall was based around the issues she hasn't fully resolved within herself, I.e. being abandoned and left behind, the anguish and sense of loss would fester. I doubt all those feelings would have been fully reconciled by the time she lets the Force in.

There wouldn't be a conflict like Ren was dealing with per se, but the dark side could seep in through those vulnerabilities in her character. It would be a more tragic fall than anything else in my mind.

With that as a foundation, it could make for a potentially interesting extension of her arch.